S02.E08: Strongman

[ohjoy]

Jack heads to the Presidential Palace to retrieve Greer. When the polls are shutdown, violent protests erupt outside the palace, and Jack must make a decision that could determine his future.

[mledawn]

I very much enjoyed the ending and that I was right to feel wary of how helpful that old Senator was. 

I checked IMDB and saw that Season 3 has a spot already, so I guess it is nice to know there will be more. I definitely enjoyed the first season more than this one, but I'm not wholly sure why.

[Irlandesa]

I think I may have enjoyed this season more but largely because I think it reminded me so much of Clear and Present Danger which I think was my favorite of the two Harrison Ford Jack Ryan movies.

This finale was a testosterone fueled kill fest, though.  I had to roll my eyes as November was telling Jack they weren't authorized to kill the president as they were basically shooting everyone in Miraflores. Just not the president.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Irlandesa

[sinycalone]

Overall, I was really pleased with this new season.  I probably would rate the first season a bit higher....but not by much.

They surprised me with a some of the twists, without stretching things beyond credibility.  That's tough to do in an action series like this.

Some of the new characters (November, Bishop, Gloria, etc.) were great additions.  Shame some of them won't be back.

[Michichick]

1 hour ago, sinycalone said:

Overall, I was really pleased with this new season.  I probably would rate the first season a bit higher....but not by much.

They surprised me with a some of the twists, without stretching things beyond credibility.  That's tough to do in an action series like this.

Some of the new characters (November, Bishop, Gloria, etc.) were great additions.  Shame some of them won't be back.

I enjoyed the season, as well. Really hoping November will be around for season 3.

[Dancing Queen]

Is Greer retiring, or will he be willing to work a desk job?  The actor/character is a big part of why I enjoy the show, so I hope he'll stay on, even in a limited capacity.

[Raja]

I think that if you drop out the drone operator season 1 came off as more realistic. Sure Sheikh Suliman had a convoluted revenge plan. But here 5 CIA guys in a marked US ARMY helicopter invades Venezuela in broad daylight. Meanwhile in their version of the White House after showing technology that can just pick up 3 guys in the middle of the jungle  nobody calls from the outer security  to alert the inside Secret Service like guards that we have been invaded?

Edited November 5, 2019 by Raja

[dwmarch]

Comments here are for the full season as I binge-watched it and did not want to take a break between episodes for commentary.

I thought there were some good Clancy references in this one. The main plot is a loose adaptation of Clear and Present Danger. There is a reference to exfiltrating Venezuela through Colombia which I thought was neat since in CaPD the soldiers discuss the idea of exfiltrating Colombia via a neighboring country.

The Blackhawk doing a raid on a heavily guarded villa is also from CaPD although in the book the Blackhawk has a chaingun, not a mounted M60. I remember the vivid description of the fire from it being like a laser beam.

There was also a moment where Matisse's buddy takes a photo off of his body and that would seem to be based on the scene in CaPD where Jack Ryan basically adopts the family of one of the helicopter crew who is killed in crossfire.

I liked the satellite reversal. In CaPD, the US has a "failed" launch of a spy satellite that is supposed to be monitoring Russia but it "goes off course" and ends up in a "useless" geostationary orbit over Colombia.

A helicopter landing on a ship is of course the pivotal scene in CaPD although in this version it was under much better circumstances.

The beginning of the season worked in some nice Cardinal of the Kremlin material. The KGB minders helping Greer might be a reference to HfRO where a Russian spy stops a mugging in DC.

They finally remembered that James Greer was in the Navy! This did not get a single mention in season 1 unless you count Greer swearing like a sailor.

Jack with a gun to someone's head and a desperate wish to pull the trigger was in Patriot Games.

There were a few differences too:

Jack Ryan has never fired a grenade launcher.

Jack never had a girlfriend/lover from the BND and he never broke up with Cathy. They did have a marriage crisis in SoAF but they didn't split up.

We do have a final answer to the question of whether or not Matisse is John Clark. Personally, I always thought it was obvious that they were not meant to be the same, they are nothing like each other.

The CIA SAD team in this one was Army Light Infantry in the book. The team was much larger and they were all Hispanic men with no families to speak of. In fact, there were four teams in total, supported by a helicopter.

In CaPD, the Colombian government doesn't fall. The US government does (courtesy of an inept coverup) and it sets up the intricacies of SoAF and beyond.

As for other things:

I liked seeing Anthony Head again and loved that they had him say "what the bloody what the fuck" which one would think he would have been saying on Buffy pretty much constantly.

I got a kick out of Arnold Vosloo's grudging respect for Jack by the end of the season. Can't buy his loyalty but you sure as hell can rent it! I also appreciate the break from typecasting here. In 24, Vosloo played a Muslim terrorist. In G.I. Joe he played an international terrorist. In Jack Ryan he plays... a mercenary!

[Happywatcher]

With the sole exceptions of figuring out the ship slightly before Greer and figuring out the mining plot before the professionals in DC would have, Jack literally made every single part of the season worse. 

[Mars477]

7 hours ago, Happywatcher said:

With the sole exceptions of figuring out the ship slightly before Greer and figuring out the mining plot before the professionals in DC would have, Jack literally made every single part of the season worse. 

Also, Greer is a massive liability in the field and whoever decided that he should be anywhere near kinetic operations should probably be fired.

[Happywatcher]

However, if season 3 is Jack back at HQ and Mike November out running field ops, sign me up for bingeing it all the first night. He was a strong and likable character, and the on and off ex wife thing would be great

[Mars477]

4 hours ago, Happywatcher said:

However, if season 3 is Jack back at HQ and Mike November out running field ops, sign me up for bingeing it all the first night. He was a strong and likable character, and the on and off ex wife thing would be great

Also, would it kill the writers to introduce some female characters at CIA?  American women do volunteer to join the clandestine service, after all.  And surely there has to be a woman, military veteran or otherwise, who is qualified to run with the show's crackerjack version of Special Activities Division if Greer is hauling around his diseased coronary arteries across the hostile territory of the season.

Sure, Tom Clancy's works weren't exactly massively feminist but it's pretty clear that the showrunners didn't know what to do with BND officer Noomi Rapace or much concern for explaining away why manly hero spy is working with a(n attractive female) foreign agent instead of another CIA officer.

[shrewd.buddha]

We watched it over 4 or 5 days  - - it went pretty quickly and easily. 
However - I found it much less enjoyable than season one. 

In this season, Jack has already become jaded, bearded, grizzled and an expert at ..  well, everything..  Also, Jack's girlfriend from season one disappeared without a trace or mention. 

Greer was the same type of dick he was in season 1, which fits and works for his character.
But now Jack Ryan is the same type of dick, with no naivete or potential to grown and learn - - he is all grown up, no longer riding a bike, picking up strange women for one-nighters   and has his brooding man-beard. 

The action was well done. But nothing was very subtle. El presidente turned out to be your typical evil villain who would cut his own brother's throat (we were sure there was going to be some type of twist there, but no..).
Ryan's insta-love connection with spy-woman was also abrupt and lacked any visible chemistry. 

The episodes were easy to watch, but the writing has definitely gone downhill.  I suppose that since the first season was considered a hit, the series will now get the "just churn 'em out" treatment. 

[Paws]

Finished last night. Jack Ryan himself is the least interesting character in the show. All the Venezuelan characters were interesting, Mike November was interesting, and Greer is my favorite. Jack himself is just a boring blank slate (and he’s way too tall to fit in the back of that car lying down). It would have been more interesting if they kept him somewhat nerdy as opposed to Commando Jack.

[Cerulean]

I also found myself liking the character of Mike November, but the name is just so strange sounding to my ear, with it being the phonetic alphabet pronunciations of M and N. Also, he keeps warning Jack not to kill the president, but they didn’t have clearance for any weapons let alone storming the presidential mansion!

Also, I kept trying to figure out Harry’s play. I wondered if we were going to find out that she was also the lawyer.... then she pins a death and Jack and then ALSO helps him to get the senator? I guess there’s always next season. 

Edited November 27, 2019 by Cerulean
Forgot to mention Harry

[Ellaria]

On 11/13/2019 at 12:56 PM, shrewd.buddha said:

The action was well done. But nothing was very subtle. El presidente turned out to be your typical evil villain who would cut his own brother's throat (we were sure there was going to be some type of twist there, but no..).
Ryan's insta-love connection with spy-woman was also abrupt and lacked any visible chemistry. 

The episodes were easy to watch, but the writing has definitely gone downhill.  I suppose that since the first season was considered a hit, the series will now get the "just churn 'em out" treatment. 

Agree. Lots of action but little in the way of interesting plotting. El Presidente was a bore. Spent most of his time looking out windows or at news broadcasts. Nothing about this character was unique from the zillion other evil dictators we have seen on screen.

Too many side plots that added nothing, like Ubarri's loyalty (or lack of). Was anyone surprised that Mr. Bonalde would be found alive in the prison camp and reunited with his wife, the new Presidente? 

On 11/26/2019 at 11:55 PM, Cerulean said:

I also found myself liking the character of Mike November, but the name is just so strange sounding to my ear, with it being the phonetic alphabet pronunciations of M and N. Also, he keeps warning Jack not to kill the president, but they didn’t have clearance for any weapons let alone storming the presidential mansion!

Also, I kept trying to figure out Harry’s play. I wondered if we were going to find out that she was also the lawyer.... then she pins a death and Jack and then ALSO helps him to get the senator? I guess there’s always next season. 

I really hope that Mike is in S3. Michael Kelly has a great presence, regardless of the show or role. Alternatively, I could do without Harry's return.  Noomi Rapace has zero chemistry with Krasinski. I still don't quite get her last scene: where was she when Jack called her to get Thorne's phone records?

The writing in S2 was a letdown. Perhaps they thought that the addition of familiar faces would make up for it.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Ellaria Sand

[jabRI]

On 11/13/2019 at 12:56 PM, shrewd.buddha said:

We watched it over 4 or 5 days  - - it went pretty quickly and easily. 
However - I found it much less enjoyable than season one. 

I felt the same way, I thought the way they got the story going was really hard to keep track of, from the rocket in the south china sea, then the focus on Venezuela, then the mining.. it was too much

[jabRI]

On 4/19/2020 at 1:05 PM, Ellaria Sand said:

I still don't quite get her last scene: where was she when Jack called her to get Thorne's phone records?

I agree, I thought they would zoom out and show her mid-assassination, but putting it on hold to take Jack's call