S06.E04: There Will Be Blood

[SimoneS]

Well, Eric Wallace's honeymoon didn't last long around here. Ha. I haven't liked the last two episodes because Team Flash's acceptance of Barry's death is too unrealistic. At least, we should see them coming up with a plan that fails and devastated, they accept that there nothing that they can do so they prepare to say goodbye to Barry. They are definitely no Avengers.

I didn't view Iris as being sidelined as much as going back to her usual place as an afterthought in the story. In the first two episodes, Barry and Iris were strong as they grieved for Nora and then faced the news together. Barry has now moved onto preparing the team, first KF and last episode was Cisco's turn. I expect we will be getting a very special episode between Barry and Ralph at some point.

I am not convinced that Wallace is doing fan service by wanting Cisco to lead the team as much as Barry knows that Iris has finally found her true love as a reporter and he doesn't want her to give that up to be team leader out of obligation. This dialogue that was missing in the Barry/Cisco scene.

The Barry/Joe heart to heart has been a hit and positively received in general online, but I thought it was overindulgent and I agree with the person who said that Joe was more broken up than when he found out Iris was going to be killed. And the dialogue in the scene was overwrought which is probably what they were going for. Of course, it is all going to be ridiculous when Barry doesn't die or stay dead.

Edited October 31, 2019 by SimoneS

[tennisgurl]

Yeah alright Joe, I guess I didnt need a heart or anything, thanks for tearing it right out of my chest! Geez, that hit me right in the gut, especially when Joe just started sobbing about how he wasnt ready to lose Barry and then Barry hugged him. Poor Joe, if its not one kid being prophesied to die soon its another!

I wonder if they are trying to do with Iris kind of what happened when he was stuck in the speedforce, and she was seemingly staying so strong while Barry might be gone forever, but then she broke down at the end, and its clear that it was a front and her way of coping, but I dont know if its working. After angrily saying how she refused to accept this death sentence, she just seems to have made peace with things, which seems pretty off to me. And worse, could somebody just please ask Iris if she is ok?! Ask if she needs a hug? Some tissues? Yeah this sucks for everyone, but Barry is her fucking husband! Her best friend, her one true love, they've been each others person since they were kids! She must be devastated more than anyone else, but she is here stuck comforting everyone else! Maybe its denial, or she and Barry have gone numb, but I need to really see people actually supporting her, and letting her share her feelings! I do like Ralph and Iris and I enjoy their friendship a lot, but acting like Iris isnt the one who should be most upset is just ridiculous. Really, the only part of that that made sense was when Ralph said she should be with her husband while she can. He isnt wrong! 

Really, I think everyone is accepting this too quickly, at least Cisco tried to do something, and wasnt just willing to write his best friend off as inevitable cosmic collateral damage. I can get Barry deciding to just let himself die (after seeing everyone he loved dying in countless universes) but everyone else should be still trying to stop this as much as they can! 

I did like this being a sort of Halloween episode, with lots of decorations and the zombie attack at the end. And its clever to have a villain this season obsessed with stopping death, while Barry and company are trying to deal with Barry's seemingly inevitable demise. Its actually leading to some nice thematic stuff that is working really well. 

Between this and Arrow, this is kind of a depressing two hours of television. The Crisis is just wearing everyone down, and with both main characters just waiting to die horribly or face mass destruction, its all so filled with melancholy. I am not exactly complaining, because I have mostly enjoyed this season of both shows (even if they have problems) and I am actually glad they're really going all out to hype up the Crisis, as they should for such a huge event, but its all so just sad.  

"I’m not looking to get married." Heh, I see what you did there, show. I see what you did. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by tennisgurl

[Trini]

LOL!

Also he shared a BTS photo of the Bloodwork makeup:

[SimoneS]

Seeing Sendhil reminds me to comment about how horrible the CGI has been. Ramsey's arm turning into blood looks so amateurish.

[UNOSEZ]

36 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Seeing Sendhil reminds me to comment about how horrible the CGI has been. Ramsey's arm turning into blood looks so amateurish.

And he's been so good.. Shame 

[adora721]

If I were Iris, I'd be talking to Barry about creating embryos for their kids and putting them on ice. I don't think Iris is mentally capable of even considering having a baby right now after just losing Nora. If she wants to still have kids with Barry, freezing embryos is the smarter move for when she's ready to be single mother after grieving Barry's loss.

That way, once the crisis is averted and Barry is back, they can take their time and implant the embryos in a later season.

Edited October 31, 2019 by adora721

[phoenics]

12 minutes ago, adora721 said:

If I were Iris, I'd be talking to Barry about creating embryos for their kids and putting them on ice. I don't think Iris is mentally capable of even considering having a baby right now after just losing Nora. If she wants to still have kids with Barry, freezing embryos is the smarter move for when she's ready to be single mother after grieving Barry's loss.

That way, once the crisis is averted and Barry is back, they can take their time and implant the embryos in a later season.

This would be the logical thing to do but I'm beginning to wonder if the show even remembers that Iris needs to be pregnant before Barry dies or whatever... based on what's aired so far and how Nora seems forgotten I wonder if the show remembers that hanging chad?

Plus, I feel like the writers are writing too much from the perspective of a show that knows Barry isn't going to die.  So they aren't going deep enough with how people would really be acting - Iris especially.

Also - I'm very disappointed that they didn't show Barry telling Joe and Cecile onscreen.  That feels like a massive missed opportunity - but it would have also centered the West family and the narrative seems to be trying super hard to center anyone but the Wests.

[Trini]

So saying the word "halloween" a few times and having some jack-o' lanterns on set does not make this a 'hallween episode'. It was going to be spooky anyway with Ramsey and his zombies.

So this new Wells (::SIGH::) is slightly less annoying than the last, but still mostly irrelevant. I guess he brought a little levity, but the only scene that really moved his plot forward was his last scene connecting him to the Monitor. I really wish they would get rid of the dead weight on the show. They could have left him out of Barry and Cisco's plot entirely, and given Iris more scenes.

Barry/Cisco: When was the last time Barry and Cisco had an A-plot together? Too long; so I liked that they were working together. They've neglected their relationship for a while, but it makes sense that Cisco would try to 'science' a way to save Barry, since he did the same at the start of Season 4.

I wish that Barry had been upfront with Cisco from the start that he wanted to prepare him to be Team Leader. I think that would have been a slightly better way to help him accept his death than curing this one person. But then we wouldn't have DRAMA (and a reason to insert irrelevant Wells #5870). On the other hand, I did enjoy Barry and Cisco's emotional heart-to-heart. I kinda hope that Cisco is secretly going to work on something to at least help in the Crisis. Glad they gave Carlos stuff to do.

But on the other other hand, they cut the Barry/Cisco hug! (There was a promo pic of it.)

I kind of get why for the story they need everyone to accept Barry's death beforehand; otherwise it would be a half season of them trying different things to save him that ultimately won't matter. However, it is out of character for most of the team. Their M.O. is to fix things, save people. But I appreciate that they are exploring the reactions of everyone and how they are processing that and the Crisis. *(But more on this later.)

Ramsey's jump from finding a cure, to being a killer was way too quick, but I've enjoyed seeing his evolution into a supervillain. And it's great that we've got an actor who can sell it. Grant and Sendhil are great in their scenes together, so looking forward to more of that.

I hope Ramsey keeps calling KF "Cait".

So the C-plot with Ralph is him going straight to the depression stage of grief. And reminding us that Sue is still out there. But we got a rare Joe/Ralph scene!

Barry/Joe balcony talk: 😭 😭 😭 Way to make me cry Mr. Martin! So he got some stuff to do too. - BUT - while Joe's lines in that scene ring true, Barry's lines just goes against the show's canon. (I really wonder if the writers watch the show sometimes.) Joe is definitely important to Barry, but they didn't need to word it so that Joe was the most important to him becoming the Flash - because that's not what the show has shown and said.

*I think they were more balanced in the previous episodes with screentime and plots. Iris, KF, and especially Cecile got the short end here; since this was clearly the "manpain" episode. I think they tried to do too many things: they examined Cisco, Ralph, and Joe's reactions to Barry's imminent death, when maybe they should have done at least one of these in another episode. Plus, showing Ramsey's turn to villainy, and Wells' shenanigans.

I think they could have had a Barry/Iris scene near the beginning of the episode, and maybe have Iris more involved with either Joe or Ralph - while cutting either Ralph or Joe's subplots.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Trini

[Trini]

New set alert: the kitchenette in the office building where CCC and Ralph's offices are.

[Trini]

On 10/30/2019 at 12:03 AM, RedVitC said:

...

-About the above, I didn't mean Ralph's comment about Iris wasn't mean, clearly it was, which is why they had him apologize, but  (I think) the purpose of the writers putting in that line wasn't because they wanted to be mean to Iris, but that they wanted someone to point out that Iris is running around doing random things (like last week, and this week again) instead of spending time with Barry (if he was actually available...). Could they have done it by Ralph asking why she was doing this in a nice way? Yes, that absolutely would have been better, but I'm focusing on what I think the purpose of the line is overall. But that's just my take on what they were trying to do. Not saying it makes it all better, but for me personally, it helps a little

With Wallace making this season more serialized, I think the line was also there to set up

Spoiler

the Barry/Iris plot in the next episode (them going on vacation together), based on the promo.

[Maverick]

 I am really disappointed that they have turned Bloodwork into Murphy from Z Nation.  But then I always hate when a non-zombie show tries to do a zombie episode.  It's always hokey crap.   I saw an old episode of Enterprise with a ship full of Vulcans turned into space zombies.  Yes, it was as bad as it sounds.

[Featherhat]

On 10/31/2019 at 5:01 AM, adora721 said:

If I were Iris, I'd be talking to Barry about creating embryos for their kids and putting them on ice. I don't think Iris is mentally capable of even considering having a baby right now after just losing Nora. If she wants to still have kids with Barry, freezing embryos is the smarter move for when she's ready to be single mother after grieving Barry's loss.

That way, once the crisis is averted and Barry is back, they can take their time and implant the embryos in a later season.

It's a practical solution if they think a Nora has to be conceived/born soon but it's not a storyline you ever see on TV for sympathetic main characters that doesn't involve the C words cancer and Chemo. It's portrayed as highly selfish for a woman to want to do that when her partner dies. If she suggested it I think Barry wouldn't go for it and I think in the writing it might come across as "Barry I just need your sperm not you". I wouldn't mind if they brought up "but what about our kid being conceived" but the writers seem to be ignoring it, probably because they know how the rest of the season goes even if the characters don't and it's not important to the story right now. 

[JoyGirl]

On 10/29/2019 at 8:49 PM, SimoneS said:

I will say that I am enjoying Ramsey. His descent into madness and a classic comic villain has been entertaining. I was glad that Barry figured it out quickly. I am looking forward to seeing Ramsey wreck havoc on Central City. 

Totally have the opposite feeling.  I try to FF his scenes whenever possible.  Especially since they are showing flashbacks of his history. This just reminds me so much of Devoe and how that character took over the whole show, IMO.  

[immortalfrieza]

All I can say about this episode that hasn't been said already?

Ramsey. A part of me kept expecting this:

Or something like it.