S02.E02: The Lady

[formerlyfreedom]

Miles and Rakesh help Joy with her new friend suggestion, an aspiring self-help guru. Cara follows a lead in Paris. Ali reveals to Arthur that she’s left Harlem Episcopal for a progressive LGBTQ-friendly congregation.

Airing Sunday, October 6, 2019.

[mommalib]

This Joy chick kinds annoys me. I understand sometimes taking a risk but she was like a bull in a china shop. They're lucky Teddy could man up and talk to the son.

What Cara is going through is makes sense, she's just scared we all know she loves Miles.

Great to Ali get some story I like her.

[Yeah No]

I have to admit I didn't love this episode.  Usually by the end of an episode we end up loving the person or people helped and have the warm fuzzies in the pit of our stomachs, but this Teddy guy and his son really didn't have any endearing qualities whatsoever so I was actually left feeling slightly underwhelmed.  And despite his bitter moral superiority act toward Teddy for taking the money, the young man's grandfather certainly was no one to talk because he was the one that GAVE Teddy the money to go away.  So what does that make him?  A person in a glass house that throws stones.

And I hate to say it, but it feels like they're trying too hard to make issues out of nothing.  Like the whole Cara in Paris thing is not really working for me.  Neither is the new Arthur minus Harlem Episcopal.  And AGAIN with making it look like Episcopal congregations are not open and friendly to the LGBTQ community.  I mean, even the LGBTQ community knows better than that!  It really cheeses me off especially because the show got criticized about that on social media by Episcopalians last season so you'd think they would have learned by now.....but noooooo....😏

[Trini]

I get bringing in characters to shake things up, but Joy bulldozing her way through this week's 'case' didn't work for me. (I thought she was fine in the last episode.)

And I thought the story with the Friend Suggestion was kind of messy throughout; and similar to what Yeah No said, it didn't have the typical feelgood ending.

I liked that Arthur and Ali had a storyline; and not that I want drama between them, but the conflict seemed weak, and the resolution predictable.

I don't know if they plan to have the God Account be God, a person, or something else; but this week it was reminding me of The Machine on Person of Interest, with it directing our team all over the cities!

Looking forward to Cara and Miles reuniting!

Edited October 8, 2019 by Trini

[MissLucas]

Hmm, I kinda enjoy Joy's (oops) blunt approach to problems - if this is the spiritual version of POI she's Shaw, he! On a more serious note I thought all the scenes where she talked about the emotional impact giving up her daughter for adoption had had on her were very well written.

I keep wondering when the taped the scenes in Paris i.e. did the Notre Dame fire force them to switch locations. They circle a lot around the Eiffel Tower and do keep away from the Île de la Cité which is unusual for shows filming on location in Paris. 

Most plots felt a bit meh and I admit I came close to call Cara an idiot. Ah well, they can't all be winners.

[Empress1]

This didn't work for me either, though I enjoyed Bryan Greenberg (Teddy. How to Make It in America was a good show that I wish had had more time). I find Joy kind of annoying.

10 hours ago, Trini said:

Looking forward to Cara and Miles reuniting!

Me too, though why the fuck hasn't he visited her before? It's PARIS.

[Trini]

51 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Most plots felt a bit meh and I admit I came close to call Cara an idiot. Ah well, they can't all be winners.

It's early in the season to have such a 'meh' episode, though. Hope that's not a bad sign for the rest of the season.

[Bringonthedrama]

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Hmm, I kinda enjoy Joy's (oops) blunt approach to problems -

Joy's blunt approach comes from her attorney background. In situations like the season premiere where having that authoritative "I know the law" background is helpful, her demeanor works. In general with the God Account cases though, I don't see how her "tell me what I want to know/do what I tell you NOW" approach cannot work with strangers with any sort of realism. (I would tell a person like Joy to get lost, and would not speak to her again if she approached.)  Miles and Cara approached the people in need gently and with compassion, speaking to them as potential friends they wanted to help. So those people 'let them in' to what was going on regarding their current troubles. They don't come across as authoritative as Joy did.  The only reason this 'case' worked out okay was Joy had some perspective knowledge of the guy's thought process re: gf's pregnancy was because she chose to give up her child for adoption. 

I thought most of this episode was very contrived, for example the guy shrugging his shoulders 'oh well' that the business he had worked hard to build was gone, because 'I have a chance to know my son.'  

Also, why does the writer of this episode assume that a child would one day go to the birth mother for answers, and the woman would need to justify/defend her choice? The implication is that a woman is a bad or selfish person for choosing adoption.

[tennisgurl]

I dont know if this one was quite up to the shows normal standards, as others have said. It had some nice moments, but the case of the week was kind of meh and the conflicts just seemed to exist because the show needed some conflicts. 

We didnt really spend enough time with Teddy and his son to really get to know them and really get invested in them reconciling, and I spent the whole episode wanting someone to call the grandpa out on his hypocritical asshole behavior, and it never happened. Yeah Teddy taking the money and leaving his family was bad, but grandpa was the one who gave him the money in the first place, so as much as he rants about what an awful garbage person Teddy is for taking the money, what does that make him? The kind of man who pays his daughter boyfriend and his grandsons father to leave them and let his daughter think he stopped loving her because...I have no idea why he did that. He hated Teddy that much even before he offered the money? And even if he did stay, that would certainly be an awkward situation, right? And then he tried to pettily ruin his career years later because his grandson wanted to meet him and because Joy ran in hot? What a cranky old jerk, and he never got any comeuppance or had to apologize his part in all of this.

I liked the idea of Joy being more assertive and to the point, to contrast with Miles more friendly and empathetic style of helping, but I am really not a fan. She just bulldozes into these situations and makes things worse, the only reason this all went alright was because she had some insight into the situation. Its clearly the lawyer in her, but I feel like it can easily go badly. 

I am glad that Arthur and Ali got a plot, but I wasnt a big fan of it. 

[MissLucas]

3 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I spent the whole episode wanting someone to call the grandpa out on his hypocritical asshole behavior, and it never happened. Yeah Teddy taking the money and leaving his family was bad, but grandpa was the one who gave him the money in the first place, so as much as he rants about what an awful garbage person Teddy is for taking the money, what does that make him? The kind of man who pays his daughter boyfriend and his grandsons father to leave them and let his daughter think he stopped loving her because...

Ditto - grandpa came off far worse than Teddy. Teddy was young and desperate but grandpa was old enough to know what he was doing. I guess he was some sort of rich snob and Teddy wasn't good enough for his daughter. Also: he sabotaged the event in the hotel by resorting to some pretty shady stuff even if it was never laid out in detail.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, Bringonthedrama said:

In general with the God Account cases though, I don't see how her "tell me what I want to know/do what I tell you NOW" approach cannot work with strangers with any sort of realism. (I would tell a person like Joy to get lost, and would not speak to her again if she approached.)  Miles and Cara approached the people in need gently and with compassion, speaking to them as potential friends they wanted to help. 

I kept thinking that I'd tell her to fuck right off and if she kept following me I might call the cops. It already causes me to suspend disbelief that these people would tell Miles and Cara their very personal business* right out of the gate but at least Miles is very charming and he doesn't pry too much (e.g. with the soldier last episode - he started off by asking if he could buy him a beer, which I would imagine has happened to the soldier before as a way of thanking him for his service), but Joy has a kind of bulldozer-ish way of handling these situations that I think many people would find off-putting.

*Although I have the kind of face where people tend to tell me all their business. I once bought a phone and the man selling it to me told me ALL about his messy divorce. I literally did not ask him any questions that were not related to the phone. I also had a seat-mate on a flight tell ME all about his divorce and new relationship, and I really just wanted to take a nap.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

So, Arthur is all butt hurt because his daughter was quitting the congregation.  Well, what the hell did you just do, and without any enmity coming from the very same congregation?!

It's a shame that TPTB are ever reluctant to have full judgment come down on anyone.  It's a spiritual-lite show.  I'm glad we have at least this much, but man, they risk becoming farce.  

All the ascribing of the GA to specifics is very tiresome.  Should I use this stall or the next one to relieve myself?  Paper, or plastic?  The fate of mankind may depend on such decisions!   

It is now show canon that the GA predates Miles.  Smart move.  Dare they go back and have a "holodeck" ep with our intrepid heroes giving succor to folks once upon a time?  Why not?

The worst part of this ep, and it is a nearly universal TV trope, is the insistence that it is always the best thing to seek out bio-parents.  It manifestly is not.  I honor Joy's pain and that she gave birth.  That does not mean it is proper for her to insert herself in her child's life now.  Even if a given young "orphan" believes s/he wants to meet the bio-parent it is foolish to not consider the implications.  There are certainly times a child's impulse is Godly.  There are any number of times when acting out on such is disastrous.  Another TV trope -"Out of the mouths of babes..."  Spare me.

The arm tattoos on Cara are ugly.  TPTB does a very good job hiding them, but every once in awhile, like in the preview, they appear.  What's that?  Ohhhhh - a young impulse!  How dare I question the decision to deface otherwise gorgeous skin.  Then again, if they are such a great thing, why are they not featured? 

I'm gonna go ask the GA for an answer.  

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I liked the idea of Joy being more assertive and to the point, to contrast with Miles more friendly and empathetic style of helping, but I am really not a fan. She just bulldozes into these situations and makes things worse, the only reason this all went alright was because she had some insight into the situation. Its clearly the lawyer in her, but I feel like it can easily go badly. 

I agree but I wonder if the GA is giving her the kind of situations to solve that suit her way of solving them.  Which is making me wonder if her brusque style is going to mean we're going to be treated to more unsavory people this season.  If that's the case I'm not going to be happy about it.  One of the wonderful things about this show in its first season was its "feel good" factor.  It was uplifting because everyone pretty much hugged and sang kumbaya at the end of every episode.  Now we have nasty grandpa that never gets his comeuppance.  

I almost feel like there's a disturbance in the force on this show since Cara etc. went to Paris.  It's like the characters attract the people they are somehow destined to attract based on where they are in life.  Something is amiss in Cara regarding Miles so now suddenly it's like the chain is broken and the synergy between the group is lost.  People are at odds with themselves and moving in strange directions.  I'm thinking perhaps the arc this season is for everyone to find themselves and each other again.  Hopefully Joy will find her daughter and be on her way and Arthur will find himself back at Harlem Episcopal.  I hate to say I have a weird suspicion that after he gets married his wife will die in a car accident just like his first wife did.  I don't know why I feel that but his entire story line feels fatalistic somehow.

Just as an aside, the interior of the church they used for the church Miles' sister was joining was actually an Episcopal church on the Lower East Side in Manhattan, St. Augustine's.  I recognized it right away.  I took photos in it a few years ago.  The exterior was another church on the Upper East Side, The Crenshaw Church on 96th St.

[redpencil]

Quote

Also, why does the writer of this episode assume that a child would one day go to the birth mother for answers, and the woman would need to justify/defend her choice? The implication is that a woman is a bad or selfish person for choosing adoption.

I didn't have as many problems with the episode as other people did (though I definitely liked last week's better), but this is the one thing that really bugged. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on seeing where things are going, but I really hate the implication that giving a child up for adoption is always wrong or selfish. Quite the opposite--many times it's the selfLESS thing to do. That doesn't mean it would hurt any less to make that choice, but many times a baby is given up for adoption precisely because of how much they loved the baby, not because the baby was loved any less.

[TWOPrefugee]

I enjoyed the first season of this show and was looking forward to season two, but just two episodes into this season, I think I might be done. I cannot stand Joy. Hell, didn't we start off this show with a long-lost mother/daughter story? Then there's Arthur. Seriously? you're upset that your fully grown daughter wants to make her own choice of what church to attend?  Just...blegh.

Edited October 10, 2019 by TWOPrefugee

[SnarkySheep]

On 10/7/2019 at 12:14 AM, Yeah No said:

I have to admit I didn't love this episode.  Usually by the end of an episode we end up loving the person or people helped and have the warm fuzzies in the pit of our stomachs, but this Teddy guy and his son really didn't have any endearing qualities whatsoever so I was actually left feeling slightly underwhelmed.  And despite his bitter moral superiority act toward Teddy for taking the money, the young man's grandfather certainly was no one to talk because he was the one that GAVE Teddy the money to go away.  So what does that make him?  A person in a glass house that throws stones.

Same...and really, the whole story just didn't make any sense to me. Why would the grandfather have even offered Teddy that money in the first place? He didn't seem particularly objectionable to me. Why exactly would the guy have preferred to have his grandchild grow up with a single mom instead of Teddy as a dad?

And at the end, when Jacob asked Teddy if he had loved his mother, Teddy said "more than anything"...WTF? Which, again, makes no sense, as he agreed to take the money and leave her, and also it was fifteen years ago. Certainly if Teddy had had any true feeling toward Karen or Jacob, even if he had agreed to take the money, it was long enough ago that he could have made a move toward them. But he didn't, not until he was forced to act.

As a side note, how exactly did Rakesh "dig up" the information about grandpa writing Teddy that check in the first place?? Did the guy write "in exchange for abandoning his child" in the memo field or something?

[SnarkySheep]

On 10/7/2019 at 5:08 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The worst part of this ep, and it is a nearly universal TV trope, is the insistence that it is always the best thing to seek out bio-parents.  It manifestly is not.  I honor Joy's pain and that she gave birth.  That does not mean it is proper for her to insert herself in her child's life now. 

Not to mention, Joy specified that it was a closed adoption. It's highly possible the adoptive parents agreed to take this particular baby for that reason. We don't even know for a fact that Joy's daughter even knows she was adopted in the first place.

Secondly, while we don't know for sure how old Joy is, let's say 30ish. She said she had the baby as a teen, which could also mean a window of ages. But let's say her daughter is between 12-16 now. That means her adoptive parents put in all the time, work and love of raising her, and she's now at that age that most teens go through, where you really don't appreciate much of what went into raising you. So if Joy shows up and wants to meet her, daughter will most likely jump at the chance, thinking her birth mother is awesome and glamorous, and her parents nothing in comparison. IMO it's a really hurtful thing to do to people, simply for the sake of easing your own uncertainty and pain.