Sweet-tea

Agree. Listening to these women talk about alcoholism reminds me that the stigma still exists. They use the term "alcoholic" as one would "serial killer."

Is Jonathan the contractor or the realtor? I thought one of them was married and the other was engaged. Too bad he declined. I would definitely watch his season.

D'Andra was being petty by ignoring LeAnne. If she didn't accept LeAnne's apology, then she should have told her so at the time. Not answering her texts and phones calls and ignoring her at the paint party was just childish IMO. Also, I would've been very offended if one of my best friends spoke to me the way she did, especially when she questioned Rich's failthfulness. D'Andra did not come across as being concerned about her friend. She came across as rude. It is uncomfortable watching D'Andra and her mother. It's like watching two coworkers who don't get along. Even when they supposedly made up, it was strained. I'm not sensing any affection between them, especially from the mother to the daughter. I guess I should feel some sympathy for D'Andra, but I don't. She is more bratty than likable to me.

I think D looks the best. Brandi looks ok too but mostly just because she doesn't look much different. I don't think she's as attractive as the other women. LeeAnne looks scary! She looks even worse in the other photo. I wish these women would lay off the filler and cheek implants. Not a good look for them!

Yes! I like that most of the women on this show are actually housewives (unlike RHNY), but I can't stand the bratty or screaming kids! It is not entertaining for me at all. I was irritated at Brandi's impertinent daughters.

Harsh.

Yep, and Tamara too. Giving these women alcohol is like lighting a match and then wondering why it burns. What few inhibitions they both have are drowned out after several drinks. I don't like Shane but Kelly is drunk and obnoxious.

I don't trust Kendall. I think she will break Joe's heart. She seems in love with the idea of him but not him. Still can't get pst how she went for Leo when she should've still been in the giddy/euphoric stage with Joe. Yet she wasn't. I wish Joe hadn't taken her back. I was wondering the same thing! They didn't mention it or even talk to Colton. And at the end when CH gave the air date for the next Bachelor, he didn't reference Colton even though he was there. I am hoping they have changed their minds about Colton. I wonder why Cassandra wasn't there. There were some others missing too. Whoops, they did talk to Colton. It was so memorable I forgot it. Bummer we're stuck with him as next Bachelor.

Joe was right about everything and saw right through Kendall's excuses. I liked when he said, "please quit saying we." It really did strike me as an honest, unscripted conversation, which is rare on this show. I think Kendall is a fool but it wasn't hard to predict this would happen. As soon as she accepted the date with Leo and blathered on about their "connection" I knew she wasn't really into Joe.

What about the intro shot of LeAnne in a wedding dress? Did they actually get married or did I miss something?

ITA. Her affected way of talking drives me crazy.

Agree. I think it would be more fun if there were more options, such as a run-off for a Bachelor after a few episodes. When they did it several seasons ago with the fisherman (name?), it was done on the first episode. It wasn't effective because there wasn't time to get to know the two potential bachelors. I would like to see fresh faces too, but Fleiss is committed to recycling contestants. This is what has really changed the show, because they come on knowing they have a shot at being the next Bachelor or Bachelorette. It hasn't been about meeting a potential spouse in ages. What was the first season they started the recycling? The one before it was probably the last one with any potential for true romance. IIRC, the two doctors, the prince and Brad all came in cold. I can't remember which guy started the trend of using previous contestants. Was it Jason? Jake? The show's longevity does surprise me. I expected it to end four or five seasons ago. Are the ratings consistently high? I know there has been some stinkers like the prince and Juan Pablo. It makes me wonder how long this will go on and if it will be The Simpsons of reality tv.

I feel guilty for saying this, but I kind of want Annaliese to get dumped just to take her down a few notches. I thought the same thing about Carly, but Annaliese seems even more desperate to me. How does one go from desperate to smug? Shouldn't there be something in the middle, such as relieved or normal or humble?

I'll admit it: I'm surprised Ashley snagged Jared. I thought it would never happen. He didn't seem into her beyond friendship. I guess persistence pays off? Did she just wear the guy down? I know I should be happy for them, but I find her so irritating and now a little... smug. Quite distasteful to go through the engagement theatrics in front of her ex too. I have no interest in watching their wedding (assuming it will be televised).

Just read that Mike Fleiss tweeted "We hear you Bachelor Nation" after the outcry against Colton. Wonder if they'll bump him for someone else.

I don't find him attractive. Perhaps he photographs better than he looks?

I disagree. The reunion looks back at the season. Dorinda's behavior this season certainly begs the question. And I don't think she was assertive. She was rude and obnoxious. "I haven't been arrested yet" is something many alcoholics say when they are in denial and want to keep drinking. You don't have to be drinking out of a paper bag or sleeping it off in a jail cell to be an alcoholic. In fact, a good portion haven't had legal trouble. What brings many into recovery is negative feedback from family and friends, trouble with their jobs and health reasons. At least two of those apply to Dorinda so hopefully she will come to her senses. I feel sorry for her even though I don't like her at all. Carole does not look good. I'm not sure if it's her hair or whatever she did to her mouth and lower jaw. She also seems very angry and geared up for a fight. Perhaps Dorinda is rubbing off on her. What happened to laid back, easy going Carole? Tinsley sounds like she's settling because she desperately wants a husband who will take care of her. I wonder if she was really seeing other people as Scott was or if she said that to save face. Is that Ramona's hair or a wig? It looks shiny and healthy. I wish she would've picked a dress that complemented her body style. A true narcissist never thinks she is one. They lack self-awareness and think everyone else is the problem.

Tamra was drunk, which didn't help matters.

I was wondering what happened to Jubilee. She's been off screen so much I couldn't even remember who she was "dating." The same applies to Angela. We've barely seen or heard her at all. She's very pretty. I don't really get why she's in the background. I don't trust Colton and how he went from not sure about Tia, want to explore options, to she's-my-one-and-only. If he hasn't dumped her by now, I think he will soon. As a couple I find them boring. Leo scared me. Kendall did a good job of seeing through his manipulative behavior. She called him on it in a direct, calm manner. But I still don't want her with Joe. He is her fall back guy and he deserves better. In a few shots they black boxed the front of Jenna's swimsuit. I think they're just messing with us. Agree that she doesn't look like she'll age well as she's already a little rough. Her hair color is harsh and doesn't flatter her. The Botox brow lift seems unnecessary. She is still young. She should wait until she's 40 or 50.. She has a cute nose though. Real or done? Joe is a doll. Crystal is lovely and has a beautiful smile. I thought she was pretty on TB until she turned mean. Chelsea is also very pretty but seems like she's dialed down to a 2 or 3. Not sure if it's her personality or she's on some kind of sedative. She just kind of drifts around.

And that big swoop of hair. He looks short though.

Agree. She doesn't need the filler either. They all look better with less make-up. LeAnne and Diandra are bordering on freakish with their makeup, hair and (sometimes) outfits. LeAnne is gorgeous but looked horrible at certain angles with the jet black hair, garish makeup and ridiculous fake eyelashes.

I did not start watching until Jill left. Can anyone briefly sum up the reason for the Jill and Bethenny breakup? Or point me where to go in the forum?

ITA to your entire post. I was raised by NPD mother, and your description is spot on. Sadly, after decades of abuse I had to walk away from my mother I don't like Carol, but I think Bethenny brought out the worst in her. However, I don't like how the three of them ganged up on Bethenny. I don't like it when they do that to anyone. It brings back traumatic memories of my mean girls' experiences in school. Dorinda is not ready to face her alcohol problem. I hope she gets there before it is too late. I know many who have died from alcoholism. It ravages your body (and mind). I don't like the color or style of Dorinda's hair. Carole's face did not look good. Something looked off around her jaw and mouth. Ramona is apple-shaped and needs to learn how to dress for it. Bethenny looked good from the neck up. Sonja was overdone. I won't miss Carole and don't think Tinsley has any impact on the show. I feel cheated that LuAnne wasn't at the reunion.

I no longer like Kendall due to how she is treating my beloved Joe. She is a fool! Leo is smarmy, but I think all Kendall sees is "bad boy" and "manly." Many women think men like this are exciting when they're actually just jerks. She sees Joe as "nice guy" and is pushing him into the friend zone. It's all about Leo's hair and the way he flings it around. Otherwise, I doubt Kendall would look twice at Leo. As mentioned upthread, she is clearly very attracted to Leo. Phht! Joe deserves better. I hope he ends up with someone else and Kendall ends up alone. Angela is barely present on this show. Who is she with again? I missed the last show and have no idea what happened between Tia and Colton, but he's done a 180. Will it last? I doubt it. Otherwise, why would we have gotten Tia's scene with Raven? The French guy is not all that to me. I have no idea why Jenna is so attracted to him, but I'm finding Jordan's commentary quite entertaining. Loved Jordan and Joe laughing together!

Agree! LeeAnne is a beautiful woman but she looked terrible to me. Her makeup was overdone, hair too black and long (extensions?), lashes too big and fake... and something was off with her face. It is that she lost too much weight? She looked over the top in her TH's too. I never thought I would say that Cary looked the most natural, but she did in the coffee shop scene.