LibertarianSlut

Above is, IMO, the best way it can be stated re blindsidegate. Full disclosure--I like Leanne--and I like Cary. They are by far my two favorites to watch and I think they're both fucking crazy in completely different ways. Leeanne wins the set walk-off for me only going on the facts as they were presented to the viewer. I definitely want Leanne and Mark to go tete a tete, preferably for 12 rounds. I want to see who is quicker, who argues better, who has better evidence, etc. But for this nerdy viewer, it's only fun if it's fair. That's why I am in favor of some rules of engagement. (I think Andy is a horrible moderator. No Housewife should be allowed to get up out of her chair, IMO, for example. It irks me that if someone can't take the heat, they get to scurry backstage, with cameraman in tow, and get to give their side without opposition. No. If you can't handle the topic at hand and you walk off, you forewent getting to speak on that topic. Save it for your blog, sweetie.) And this is the last thing I'm going to say about the closed set. I agree to disagree: I don't care if the Pope himself was at a prior reunion (or several) for the purpose of this closed set. My husband, who has a degree in film, said a closed set can be many things, but it can be as simple as bunch of names on a list, and no one not on the list may be there. That is what I think we had here, based on the evidence. There were seven people being filmed in the room when Andy announced Mark was coming out. Upon the announcement being made, 1.) Leeanne--gets up and leaves, citing a "closed set" violation. Gets into it in detail in her blog. 2.) Andy--there's some wonky editing where Andy is looking off camera and mumbling "Is that what we're doing/he's going to be a guest" Never directly addresses/disputes the "closed set" even after it is brought to his attention 3.) D'Andra--repeats "this is a closed set" twice, both times after Leeanne is out of earshot. Blog is not up yet. 4.) Kameron--wonky editing, but seems to agree in theory Mark should be there. Discusses the fact that there was a closed set violation in her blog. 5.) Cary--GOES MENTAL, but never addresses or denies closed set, even after it's been brought to her attention by D'Andra. 6.) Brandi--crickets 7.) Stephanie--crickets Based off that information alone, it doesn't matter whose side I'm on, whose team I'm on...it's just clear that the women bargained for this "closed set" thing, which clearly discluded Mark, and they got Mark anyway. And I think that's unfair. Not illegal. The show will go on. I will watch. It just makes it less enjoyable. For those who say that Leeanne should be able to face anyone at any time, I agree with them in theory. I mean, anyone who sat through that season of RHNYC where Jill couldn't speak to Bethenny without consulting her notes will agree that it's exhausting to watch that play out on reality TV. On the other hand, imagine if you went on Dr Phil to discuss your problems with your mom, and not only did he bring out your mom, but he brought out your mother-in-law, who had her own host of problems to hash out with you. Lol. I want my Housewives quick on their feet, but I think we can save fighting multi-front wars for Napoleon. I wonder how a compromise would have worked--clear the room, and have just LeeAnne and Mark hash it out for the cameras. That could have been kind of cool. I do take the criticism that I'm trying to make reunions too much like courtrooms with a bit of pride. I like facts. I'm not crazy about sobbing. So...damn straight I want it to be held like a courtroom. With Judge Judy presiding!

There is no example of which I am aware regarding closed Housewife sets for reunions, save for the one currently before us. See--question asked, question answered. It appears you are contesting the validity of the closed set, so I will set that aside for now. I will cheerfully address that in a later post, but first I am returning to your assertion that Andy's surprise guest percentages are at a rate of "at least" 75% for reunions. I respectfully request that you back up your assertion about these 75% of "surprise guests" that are appearing on reunions these days. I'll even throw in a memory jogger: I do recall Phaedra's son Dillon running onto the set and saying a few cute things about two years ago on RHOA. Are there two examples of an adult physically appearing as a surprise guest at a reunion that you can name? Is it too courtroom-esque to say the jury is out?

Yeah, the more evidence we have on the reunions to lend credence to or cast dispersions on rumors and innuendo, the better. Bring em all on. Not sure they would be swelling with pride to talk about Mark's misadventures, but there you go. Where I don't agree is bringing out Mark when this was supposedly a "closed set." That was Leeann's stated reason for leaving, and that was what produced the bickering between D'Andra and Cary at the end. After Leeann walked off, Cary was flipping out--I mean, RHOC "DIS-GUS-TED" levels--that D'Andra would have the gall to say she--D'Andra--had no problem with Mark being there, but that "[she] just wished it would have been told to us," because "this is a closed set." Not cool at all, and does not comport with traditional notions of fair play and substantial justice. I am not aware of Andy bringing surprise guests to reunions when the "talent" had heretofore agreed to a close door set. Since we're putting the "surprise guest" figure at 75%, can I get an example of two times when an adult has been physically brought onto a Housewives reunion in this closed set fashion? My take: We have to have a fundamental set of rules from which we're all playing at these reunions (and by "we," I mean Bravo people, not us posters), or it's just not fun to watch. I want to learn what really happened, and I want both sides to be as adequately prepared as possible, because I think that's our best chance at getting the truth. Everyone should have been told of everyone who was potentially coming--a witness list, if you will--so that they could alll be prepared with their best evidence (and Andy does allow evidence, which he allowed Jim Marchese to produce at the RHNJ reunion, but no props. Never ever any props. Lol)

I just gotta love Cary. Leann: Your husband's tweeted nasty about me. Cary: No he hasn't. Leann: "I know a fake boob and a fake ring when I see them." Remember? Cary: Oh yeah, that was pretty funny. Cary, I want to be on your side, but get the fuck out of here with that shit! You and your husband are supposedly this "medical professional" team (there's was even a point in the reunion where Cary said she was going to "take off [her] medical professional hat" for a moment). Word up Cary, you and your husband are shady, if you said the sky was blue, I'd go outside to check it for myself, and pardon me for being old-fashioned, but I really don't think the word "boob" belongs in the mouth (or on the Twitter hands) of any medical professional. They are breasts. Mark, if you're you're too immature to address my breasts, you're certainly not getting near them for any medical reason. Mark is bizarre. I don't blame any Housewife for not being willing to film with him without prior knowledge, and, judging from the exchange quoted above, Cary literally doesn't know the difference between a truth and a lie. If Mark deserves to get his truth out there, because he was supposedly lied about all season, what does that have to do with not letting the other ladies know in advance that he would be there? It is like apples and oranges--one has nothing to do with the other. If Eli Manning is talking crap about Dak Prescott, does that mean the team managers get together and schedule the Cowboys for a sneak game on the Giants? No...it means the teams meet to play, and if the loser was talking crap, we get to watch it re-played on ESPN ad infititum...shouldn't Bravo be more like that? If Mark is telling the truth, nothing anyone plans in advance should matter...right? Why all the questioning of what Leeann was or was not on at her doctor, prior to the breast reconstruction surgery? I have odontophobia, and my dentist prescribes me with a medicine I know little about prior to even a cleaning! (google says it's Triazolam) if I was getting a breast lift and nipple manipulation on top one that, I would hope to be (and assume I was) on Heavy Duty Shit (although threatening people's lives is always a little weird). It's Leeann though. I just don't think that was quite the "gotcha" moment that they were all looking for. Despite all the accusations flying, this reunion felt a little flat for me. Here's hoping for next time. On a shallow note, Brandi looked the best I've seen her, and I want to look like Leeann when I grow up. She is quite possibly the most beautiful Housewife ever, I think. The only ones in her league are Gizelle Bryant (RHOP), Joanna Krupa (RHOM), and honorable mention to Kristin Taekman and Luann DeLesepps (RHNYC) and Cynthia Bailey (RHOA). i know this is not a popular opinion, but I think the worst one is actually Stephanie. Cary gets a few style points for running with the pack and giving me exciting TV. Kameron is very mildly amusing. Stephanie has not one redeemable or relatable feature with which I can identify. She is just there, and her existence seems pitiful, regardless of any wealth she may accumulate or already have. She just doesn't seem like a real person. I think she's a fembot.

Margaret? She's sharp, interesting, and not mean as hell -------------------------------------------------------------------------- This episode was a three-act Shakespearean play to me. Below are my verdicts: Siggy v Melissa win: Melissa loss: Siggy Siggy is playing this cake thing out because she thinks she can get the rich and couth to side with her (first Lori in Boca, now her fabulous friends). She is trying to carve herself out as the Heather DuBrow of this franchise. Good luck hun. Melissa-in all her braless, gravity-defying breasted glory, should have just been like, "you know what, Siggy? You were right about me. I. AM. TRASHY." All while chucking jewels and handbags in the air before hightailing it out of there. Teresa (and Joe) vs Melissa win: Melissa loss: Teresa and Joe Disclaimer: anyone arriving 45 minutes late to a business meeting needs to apologize and sit--without fanfare. Not that I buy this storyline, but taken at face value, if my husband not only purchased a restaurant behind my back, but invested money with my frenemy/sister-in-law, and then had the gall to bitch about me being late to my face, he would be well acquainted with catching his zzzzz's on the couch, or maybe even in a Holiday Inn Express. You never go against your wife like that, Fredo, you just don't. Melissa and Teresa are about equally interested in doing grunt work to make this thing successful, and I'll gauge that interest rate somewhere around the zero mark. Teresa was being a total B though. Here's what happened according to my imagination: Teresa: Would you work as a waitress if you had to? Melissa: If I had to, I would, but I don't have to. It's your husband who's in the pen, not mine. I'll be back Friday night, hosting in Gucci. If I need you, you'll be in the kitchen, right? Danielle v Dolores win: Danielle loss: Dolores I can sum up the reason for this verdict succinctly: the one who loses their cool is the one who loses. It was true when Teresa got in Danielle's face at the S2 reunion, and it's true now. It's a dog whistle to anyone who's even half-listening that there's gold in them thar hills. Now if you'll indulge me in a slightly more in-depth analysis... Danielle has been on the show two prior seasons, Dolores one. So, Danielle had approximately twice as many opportunities to lie...yet she was never caught lying on the show. Acting crazy...yes (setting aside a chair for Dina at her daughter's modeling party to which said daughter was not invited, and Dina had already RSVP'ed no, anyone?) Danielle, during her tenure on the show, seemed to treat the truth almost reverentially, if I recall. Her MO was to get the truth and then use it as a weapon at the most strategic time. Teresa didn't visit her nephew in the hospital, Dina spread the rumors of the book around Franklin Lakes (Jacq broke with the fambly to verify this), Danielle claimed to know secrets about Dina, and Dina subsequently ghosts herself from the show...when Danielle spilled the tea about having seen the house Teresa lived in, complete with its "linoleum floors," no one denied it. Teresa just started chasing her down. Moreover, Danielle always seemed strangely comfortable in her own truth. She was honest about her sex tape, her Botox, her breast implants, her phone sex "boyfriend," having been engaged numerous times, having had her name changed and being arrested. When she took Ashlee to court, she won, likely because she told the truth. She was honest about her lesbian affair. She let them film the realtor showing her house in a state of disrepair. When her convict friend called Christopher Manzo a faggot, she took responsibility for it. I have never seen a Housewife ganged up on or called to the carpet as much as her, yet I cannot recall one lie. (She's also pretty funny, which is rare with these 'Wives. I remember her saying she and Caroline were the same age and "Hel-lo! No wonder she's always so pissed." And when Teresa told Danielle that Joe wanted to bang her immediately upon getting breast implant surgery, Danielle--who was in an extremely hostile environment at the time--came right back with, "yeah, but you got your bubbies done; not down there." I appreciate that slight bit of wit that people like Jacq and Dina can't quite deliver. Shannon on OC is another one who is good with subtle zingers, but I digress...) Dolores. I cannot recall Dolores being caught in a lie either, but, under scrutiny, she doesn't exactly come up smelling like a rose. Caroline is her mentor? Caroline Manzo, good friend of Bernie Kerik? The one whose husband lied about his place of residence to get free health insurance? The one who lied about spreading the book about Danielle? The one who made it seem like her son failing out of law school was some nefarious plot by the dean? Dolores has proven that she is willing to cozy up with scumbags (see Flicker, Siggy and Laurita, Jaqueline). Also, what do you call a man to whom you are betrothed, with whom you share children, who has, in your words, "a Dominican girl on the side"? In my book, that's a scumbag. So, naturally, she lets him move back in to the marital home. Great judgment there. Just speaking for myself, I don't tend to associate with "scumbags." If Danielle is such a "scumbag," what was Dolores doing bringing her son to Danielle's home? But back to Frank Sr for a moment--he cheated on Dolores, and she's fine with him--just so long as he pays for her kitchen renovation. That's some shady quid pro quo there. If I didn't know better, I might be tempted to observe that Dolores cares more about money more than anything else. As Dolores seems to be one of the more perceptive women of this group, she is probably aware that she is being viewed in that light. It is not a far leap for me to imagine Dolores saying to Danielle, huge smile pasted on her face, "you know they say I care only about money, but Teresa is really the one hustling to get that coin. Be careful." And maybe Dolores meant that Danielle should be careful not to appear materialistic on the show, and Danielle is taking it out of context, but there is too much "there" there for me to believe Dolores is innocent. It's like Real Housewives of Dallas, and whether Cary's husband was getting sexual favors. Based on the reactions, one will conclude that something nefarious happened. In Dallas, there was something telling about Cary's lack of denial. Here, there's something telling about the overreaction. In other words, methinks the woman doth protest too much. That, and Danielle said on WWHL that she has proof. I'm calling it now that Danielle reveals something very unflattering about Dolores. If history is any teacher.

Thanks for going back and rewatching the episode. Do you remember whether Caylea took a blood test, a urine test, or both? I was reading on the Internet that a blood test can reflect high hCG in the event of abnormal antibodies. In short, I am not convinced Cayla had a miscarriage unless a medical professional appeared on the show to unambiguously confirm same. I think it is likely she had an extremely early miscarriage, but she will never know for sure. It reminds how there are multiple people who pull the levers during state-sanctioned death penalty, only one of whom applies the lethal dose, because there is a huge psychological difference between knowing you caused a death (or had a miscarriage) versus strongly suspecting you may have. That being said, Caylea has a stab at turning the tables on Emily, who has become insufferable. Emily is aggressively pursuing IVF. IVF often--not always--results in the creation and subsequent "discarding" of fetuses. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/fertility-clinics-destroy-embryos-all-the-time-why-arent-conservatives-after-them/2015/08/13/be06e852-4128-11e5-8e7d-9c033e6745d8_story.html?utm_term=.4ddffa56eb09 Speaking strategically, and not ideologically, Caylea might consider adopting the stance that Emily has no moral standing to assert that what she went through was worse, as Emily does not value life with the same gravitas as Caylea. In other words, as the argument goes, "you are not in a position to judge the validity of my feelings about my (specious) miscarriage versus your emotional state regarding your choice to remove your chronically ill child's feeding tube, as you have demonstrated yourself to be so callous about unborn children that you are willing to create fetuses with the knowledge they will be destroyed." It's a risky strategy, and it could backfire, but I'm tired of Emily using her pain as a weapon. I would love to see someone challenge her bullying with a cogent, philosophical argument.

This show could stand a dose of realism. Just a healthy dose, and I would cheerily go back to suspending disbelief. But I dream... The end didn't just bother me cause it was a PSA, but because I think it was criminally negligent (or at least professionally negligent) on Liv's part. As a law enforcement officer, isn't she a mandated reporter? In what universe does a LEO unilaterally conduct a high school assembly in which she encourages minors to recount their heretofore unreported experiences as victims of felonies and not act on this? IRL, she would be fired & Trump would be Tweeting about it. I have so many issues with the stupidity of this show that I hesitate to get started. Liv & co were so desperate to locate the victim that when they find she is in Newark they drive all the way over state lines and risk her fleeing during the intervening 40 minutes instead of, I dunno, calling local Newark police to take her into custody? The defense attorney who allowed the minor to spontaneously confess to the rape without so much of a peep of protest would be professionally reprimanded and likely disbarred so fast his head would spin. Once the minor's parents invoked his Constitutional right to counsel, the minor's exposure to the police would be extremely limited and likely as a formality after his lawyer had already worked out a deal with the state. Why don't any of these perps employ at least a mildly interesting strategy? Each of the three suspects could have pointed the finger at the other(s), and it would have been enough to destroy reasonable doubt. Barbra would have seen this and played ball big time. No sex offender registry. Unless Liv did her job and presented physical evidence, of which there was no mention. On a police procedural. Go figure. What exactly are the writers doing in the writing room? Drinking mimosas and using this show as a vehicle to get in touch with their inner children? There is no Law. And very little Order.

Wow, they switched nights on us & it seems like everybody missed the show. I'm up early, so I figured I'd add my $.02 & start the day out right! Lol Unless there's a pile-up, I don't really have a side I take when they fight on this show. I go back and forth. I love Dolores. And, to a lesser extent, Siggy. They seem real, rational, like they're representing New Jersey, but not that they have anything to prove, and that refreshes me. They seem like a throwback to the type of people the show was looking to cast when it started. Bravo to Bravo--you got it right seven years later lol. Anyone feel like the subtext of the women encouraging Dolores to stand strong and pay her own bills was that Dolores's youngest will be 18 soon, and maybe the Frank gravy train of support is coming to an end, and she's just in denial? Maybe the kitchen renovation was the c'oup de grace? Rosie...strikes me as an unstable, possibly volatile person. She just puts me into a state of unease when shes's around. Was it just me, or was the poker party at Chris Laurita's house somehow very sad as compared to the Season 2 poker game, when Jaqueline threw Ashley out of the house? Speaking of, I wonder how Pete feels about being the second boyfriend of Ashley's to be filmed as the odd man out at the Laurita Family and Friends Testosterone -fueled Poker Tour. I can't speak for Pete, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with being Ashley's Boyfriend: the Remix for the show. So, we're at Teresa's book party, and here comes Rino and the twins...and? Where was Bobby? Guess there was a locked bathroom calling his name... So, Dolores and Sig are cool, I find Jacqueline's descent into bankruptcy and insanity a bit creepy, and Teresa, damnit, is bringing the good TV. Her storyline was very interesting this episode, as a glimpse into a family that is struggling in a pretty unique way. I'm not going to really label or judge Joe's behavior right now. If I was facing 3-4 years of prison within the next month (even if I deserved it), I'd probably be acting berserk too. I think Melissa is very fake. Now that she isn't fighting with Teresa, she is just...there. I don't believe her that she is away from her kids, slaving away at the store, and having to weigh marital commitment issues against the desire to strike out on one's own. I think it's a vanity project, it probably won't ever get into the black, and she's just doing it so she can pretend to have an internal struggle about values in order to seem deep. It also doesn't hurt her ego to get her business partner on the phone, so that said business partner can crow that not everyone is a size zero like Melissa. I see what you did there Jacky! Ugh. (BTW, I beg to differ about Melissa being a size 0. I saw her in her bikini last episode, and girl friend looks like she's probably a 4 or a 2, depending on how the clothes are cut. Size 0 for Melissa's height would be damn near emancipated. Melissa is not emaciated by any stretch. She's just slender). Everything, including "insults," are calculated for an image. Melissa, getting Antonia ready for the dance: "why don't you trust me to curl your hair? I do it to myself all the time." Pause. Antonia: "Your hairstylist does." Melissa does not refute this. Lol. I don't think Melissa is a bad person--don't think she's cunning or devious. I just don't think she's at all interesting, and I really think she feels herself because she is a smidge smarter than her sister-in-law. The most interesting thing to me about that random guy's freak-out was how Joe approached him with a friendly arm gesture & the guy lost his shit. I wanna know what he was angry about. If not even the mob and the government can keep him out of a fellow felon's book launch, then why wasn't he in there? Lol

Man, Bethenny could have played this differently. She would have looked better if she just outed herself for dating a "technically" married man at the beginning, and stuck to rolling her eyes anytime Luann wanted to call her a hypocrite or harken back to the Berkshires. Nothing's gonna save Bethenny at this point, but when your still-married boyfriend comes up, it's a better look to calmly state your truth once. Save the grandstanding and theatrics for when you have the high ground. Production/Andy should never have allowed the phone call to the daughter to air. It made for bad TV. I don't need a faceless voice repeating Bethy's party line through a phone. If it's too distasteful to bring this daughter on the show so that viewers can gauge her credibility, then please leave her out of it. And, finally, Bethenny, please check yourself. You're grinning and lit up like a Christmas tree because your boyfriend's daughter said he wasn't cheating on her mom with you? Look at the bigger picture. A savvier person would not have outwardly treated that as a victory. A marriage is coming to an end. Pretend you have some respect for that. Since Bethenny won't take my advice, I hope Luann does: when they come for you about Tom, just brush them off.

I'm so glad someone else confirmed the Marysol Patton (formerly of Real Housewives of Miami) sighting on the yacht. I thought I was losing it...for those posters who are wondering when she was on, it was exactly six minutes into the episode, when Sonja finally gets up the "nerve" to approach Tom with Carole. When Tom greets Sonja with a friendly kiss, Marysol can be spotted in the background, wearing huge silver earrings, and what looks to be a lavender shrug. (I don't know whether this sighting adds to or takes away credence from the theory that some of the people on the boat were shady. I just know I'm a huge Housewives franchise crossover nerd, and seeing her there was oddly satisfying for me. I think I'll see myself out now...)

I loved this as a concept--a whole hour of breaking the fourth wall. I just have more questions than ever now... What was Gretchen talking about at the beginning, when she said she was no longer friends with Alexis, because Gretchen discovered that between seasons Alexis had written an email to production that said "you can get an Alexis for half the price of a Gretchen"? How would Gretchen be privy to that? And is it realistic that Alexis would be willing to work for half as much pay as Gretchen? I thought the real reason Lauri came back to the show, gunning for Vicki, was because Vicki had received some very damning information about Lauri (something about Josh, Josh's minor child and drugs IIRC), and Vicki gave the info to Jeana, who forwarded the info to The Orange County Registrar or something? Does anyone remember that? I wonder why this wasn't mentioned if they were really opening up the vault... I didn't understand the producer when he said that Tamra throwing Alexis out of the CutFitness party signaled the beginning of the end of the Gretchen/Tamra friendship, because Tamra was supposedly pulling more weight in the friendship than Gretchen. I'm paraphrasing, but I just didn't understand the logic behind that sentiment... i had forgotten or maybe I never realized that Lydia was brought on the show partially to be an Alexis ally. Then, as Lydia told it, Lydia got to the CutFitness party and got intimidated by all the anti-Alexis people who were there. I guess that's why, after Alexis got thrown out of the party, Lydia was quibbling with Alexis over the meaning of the word "bullying"--she wanted to create separation between herself and Alexis, and she succeeded. I still think it was a crappy way to behave. If my friend is crying because she was just publicly shamed, I'd soothe her; maybe I'd mix her a cocktail, or snark on the mean girls. But at no point would I be whipping out a pocket version of Oxford's English Dictionary, in order to make sure the words she was using were in keeping with their official definition. If Lydia had a true issue with Alexis's use of the term "bullying," she could have addressed it at a calmer time. Heather pulling the producer aside to broach her ideas for casting while the show is already in production is so very Heather. I'd say Quagmire Terry was a real dick...but I think those two are perfectly matched actually. Tamra is a horrible friend for not just calling attention to the fact, but insisting her friend's urinary incontinence be filmed for TV. Vicki would do the same exact thing to Tamra though, so I guess what's good for the goose... OMG, in three years, what has Gretchen done to her face?? She definitely blew up her lips, which look awful, but there's got to be more that she's done, surely? She looks like a post-surgical mess. Couldn't have happened to a better person though. Loved the shade from Andy that Gretchen & Slade will get married only if someone gives them a television platform to do so.

Yes to this whole post, but especially to the part quoted above. After Kelly called Bethenny a ho-bag on Scary Island, she went back to New York and informed Luann what she'd said, and Lu shut Kelly down completely. Luann said she didn't think women needed the term "ho-bag" in their vocabularies. This makes Bethenny's recent attack on Luann and her sexuality all the more unfortunate and unnecessary. Given the opportunity to slut-shame Bethenny, Luann left the whole thing alone, even though she and Bethenny were at odds that season. Lu knows how to make a passive-aggressive dig, and she could have said something to Kelly like, "darling, I know she is pregnant with a child out of wedlock, but that doesn't make her a ho-bag." But Luann didn't go there because she doesn't get off on slut-shaming (if Lu slut-shamed Carole, and I'm not convinced she did, it wasn't a behavior she relished; it was a reaction to highly unique circumstances). Maybe Bethenny should think about the way "The Countess" actually treated her, versus this vague feeling of uneasiness and inferiority Bethenny feels she needs to purge when she's around a confident woman such as Luann.

Yup, and Bethenny responded in kind that she'd be done with Carole if Carole had ever called HER a slut or a whore...yet, wasn't it just last episode that Jules told Carole and Bethy that if someone called her a slut, she'd take it as a compliment, and they agreed? So they were either full of shit then, or they're full of shit now, or--my opinion--they are just completely full of shit and have lost all moral or ethical compass they ever may have had, and they just say whatever is most convenient for them at the time. No one is ever going to make them take responsibility for their words and actions, so why should they quibble over a little thing like consistency?

With regard to Bethenny asserting that she didn't see Sonja over the summer, didn't B tell Ramona that she did see Sonja and Lu over the summer, and that Luann was as drunk as a nine (on a scale of 1-10), whereas Sonja was "like a twenty"? Bethy can't have it both ways, can she? Either she saw Sonja and Sonja was a drunken mess, or she didn't see Sonja, but surely not both? Just to chime in with some of the other posters as of late--I, too, have an almost visceral, very strong dislike of Carole, and I have had it from very early on. I can't even put my finger on why it is 100%. It just seems like she is very shallow and phony, while espousing the exact opposite. Given a choice between her and Aviva, I'd take Aviva. I even think Carole is worse than Beth in many ways. Bethenny says out loud what Carole will mumble and giggle about behind the scenes. They are two sides of the same awful coin. I dislike Carole so much that she has done the impossible: she has caused me to become Team Luann. Luann was my least favorite Housewife, possibly across all of the franchises, by the S4 reunion, mostly because of the way she acted in Morrocco, and the way she seemed to think all of the women had a moral responsibility to be in her Chic C'est la Vie video shoot, but when Carole came on the scene in Season 5 and started antagonizing Luann for no ostensible reason, I switched sides. Now that some other posters have fleshed out Luann's past behavior, I'm starting to think that, yes, she had and has the capacity to be annoying and rude here and there, but in the greater scheme of things she's harmless, and, dare I even say mature and relatively normal. Now that they're all against Luann in the Berkshires, I'm firmly Team Luann, because I really can't stand a pile-up.

So...just taking inventory for a second... It's ok for Carole to joke that it's "very Asian" of Jules to bring games to the Berkshires, but she took such issue with Luann self-identifying as "American Indian" that it became a reunion topic for Season Five? Is that because Carole's persona back then was hippy, granola-eating, "I'm gonna visit Occupy Wall Street and get my face painted," self-appointed protector of all that is PC, and now shes's just a girl (with a puppy and a ki-en) looking for a younger chef to love her? Or is she simply inconsistent and hypocritical?

Well, the prediction there is inaccuarate, because I can personally account for two people who stopped watching this show because of this episode. The rest of what is quoted is, what I deem, very racist. No one has a right to tell one group what they can or cannot comment on. Similarly, I would never presume to be so wise to think that I was in a position to dictate to others what they can and cannot have an opinion on. It's very demeaning and un-American, and, to quote another poster, tells me more about you than what you seek to tell others about what they can say. What does this mean? Everyone I know was aware has known Beyonce was black, well, since they knew Beyonce. Can you please elaborate? So white folks are privileged enough not to have to think about race? That's an extremely condescending thing to say, and overwhelmingly overbroad. Unless and until you know all white people, and all black people, and all people of other races, I don't see how you're in a position to make any kind of grand, race-based determination. Yes, in this I agree. I strongly disliked this episode for so many reasons, and people on here are helping me realize all of them. It's very odd for the episode to have ended with the family deciding to attend a demonstration. Shouldn't it have begun there? Or at least, shouldn't that have happened in the middle of the episode? All of the talk and none of the action made this episode feel, to me, that this endeavor was lazy and low-budget. If they're going to go to a demonstration, please take us with you at the very least. Lol.I feel like this discussion took such an interesting turn. For awhile there, people seemed to feel the need to be apologetic before criticizing this episode. Now, more recently, people are simply speaking their opinions. As a fan of free speech, I see that, in and of itself, as a victory. It's like Prague Spring :)

With respect to your viewpoint, I think you may be taking what I said about staying in one's lane out of context. Black-ish is billed as a sitcom. That is, a situational comedy. I was expressing my disagreement that the creators of any sitcom, regardless of race, should have "Very Important Episodes." It sort of offends my sense of comedy if a sitcom cannot be creative or edgy enough to use humor when portraying real and serious issues. To give an example, I think Chris Rock handled delicate racial issues with humor and aplomb at the Academy Awards. He was able to get his point across without becoming Very Serious at any time, and I applaud that. I respected Black-ish enough to have higher standards for it.I have been wondering for awhile when Black-ish was going to tackle the police brutality issue. It has been at the forefront of national discussion at least since Ferguson. I thought they would have sprinkled a few comments about it here and there. I didn't expect not to hear about it, only to be hammered over the head with it. That's not realistic or accurate with respect to the issue. Did they even mention it last week? I think it did a disservice to shove what I agree is a daily issue into one recent episode, as if it just happened, which purported the idea that a black-American family would only begin to discuss this in 2016. Contrast, for example, how the American iteration of The Office dealt with the issue of homosexuality. It was subtle, humorous, but, yes, made a point. I didn't object to Dre and Bow's shared fear that Obama might be shot on the day of his inauguration, as you suggest. I don't look at that through a political lens--it is the life or death of the executive-in-chief. What I objected to was what lead up to that discussion--the way it played out, as I remember, was that Bow, being the optimistic one, urged Dre to be more positive, as Obama had been elected president. Dre then countered that he had been afraid for the president's life, and the discussion continued from there, with flashbacks. It was implied that the family supported Obama since season one, and there was the whole episode with Dre's horror at the specter of his son becoming a Republican, and that didn't really bother me, probably because it was tongue-in-cheek. What put me off this show was a combination of the inability to use humor combined with Bow unabashedly and unequivocally asserting support of Obama (irrespective of the assassination discussion). Maybe I should simplify it this way--although I don't particularly appreciate it, a funny show can be political. I watch Real Time With Bill Maher for this reason. It's funny. Once a funny show drops the humor and gets political on top of that, I'm done. I apologize if I didn't make this clear in my first post. At the end of the day, I watch sitcoms to relax and laugh. I watch and read the news to get my facts. I don't appreciate actors and actresses taking political stances at award shows--and yes, if it's mentioned enough, it will put me off of award shows--and I don't appreciate sitcoms taking overt political positions. If they do it enough, it will put me off the show. If that says something to you about my character, then so be it. I don't think my position is far out of the norm. People have stopped watching sitcoms for far less. I just made a decision to talk about it.

I totally agree. I have watched this show faithfully on DVR, since season one, episode one. I always found it funny. It was funny because it was clever. Now, I no longer watch. After this episode, I have instructed my boyfriend to take this show off the DVR, and I'll never see it again. As lucindabelle put it perfectly, there was nothing witty or stylistic or--this is my term--nuanced, about this episode. I watched this show as a comedy. If this was supposed to be a Very Special Episode, I wasn't aware, as I would have skipped it, just as I would have skipped Very Special iterations of other shows that have been mentioned, except I'm not old enough to have witnessed those shows. I do remember some (lowercase) very special episodes of Full House that have always bummed me out. Stay in you lane people! Maybe I am sensitive. In season one, when Bow mentioned her nostalgia about the twins' Obama '08 onesies that she wanted to hold onto, I winced. I am never, nor will I ever be, a supporter of Barak Obama. I was hoping that wouldn't come into conflict with my enjoyment of this series, but now that they've come to loggerheads, my loyalties lie with my conscience and political opinions, as they always have, and always will. So...good-bye Black-ish. It was fun when you had a light touch!

Oh wow. I don't read the articles, I just watch the show, but maybe I should start. I can't believe Minnie gone and did it--I thought she was more grounded than the rest, and was only amping up the drama for the show (though I guess they all do, to some extent). And the baby daddy is Pastor Troy? I have to admit I believed Ms Juicy, and didn't think Minnie even knew Pastor Troy, given the convenient timing of their breakup, so...wrong again.

Wait, Minnie has children? I thought when she was getting the pedicure with her mom and the twins, she said something to the effect of "as long as Minnie not pregnant","and her mom even said " hallelujah" or something. So how do five of the six have kids, given that Amanda doesn't seem to have children either? The ones who have children are Emily, Bri, Monie and Andrea. I have watched the show with vivid attention since the beginning. Why are people saying 5/6 have kids? What am I missing here?

Hahaha. Also, on what planet is it three hours from Germany to Russia? It is 15 hours from Berlin to the Russian border by car. The whole question was how would the Russians get Allison out of Germany, so, not having information to the contrary, the viewer is probably supposed to believe that whorehouse was in Germany. Was there a Lear jet involved that we weren't made aware of?

Ok, losing a civil suit. And...is that worse than losing one's freedom, which is what Noah was facing by confessing? I think not. With a civil suit, all you can lose is money and property, both of which Noah has a wealth of. Are you saying it's not logical to confess to the murder after double jeopardy has attached in order to hedge against a civil suit? By his own behavior, Noah has shown that keeping the women in his life (Helen and Alison) out of jail is his main priority. Clearly, as his guilt-confessing behavior has shown, Noah isn't afraid of losing something (his freedom) to get that. I don't think we've seen anything to support the premise that the fear of losing a civil suit would have a material effect on Noah's behavior. Wait--on what grounds are you faulting the rehab? By virtue of the fact that Scotty was at the wedding, you are concluding that the rehab gave him a pass to attend same? Addictive behavior is part and parcel with lying and deceiving. Scotty could have left rehab via the front door to attend the wedding (voluntarily signing himself out), or sneaking out (they don't exactly guard the gates with German Shepards at most Long Island rehabs). I don't know how you get there from here. All we know is that Scotty left rehab to attend the wedding. That does not a lawsuit make. If rehab were found legally liable every time someone checked out to do something stupid, Charlie Sheen's, and a lot of other undeserving families would be rolling in the dough. It's just not how the law works, far as anything I've ever seen or heard.

Rehab, even while court-mandated (which it apparently wasn't in this case), is always voluntary. People are free to sign out at any time, and if someone breaks the rules, the rehab can discharge them immediately. If Scotty had been in a psych ward under a 72 hour hold, maybe this idea could hold some weight, but would Cherry really have standing to sue for wrongful death? (I ask because I honestly don't know. I'm a member of the New York bar, so I should know, but I'm a member of another state's bar as well, and the statutes kind of a blend together years after taking the bars). Don't take this to the bank because it's been about 15 years since I've been out to Montauk, but it is a skinny hamlet on the very tip of the south fork of Long Island, and there really is only one major road--route 27--to travel east and west. And I do believe the road they were driving on was route 27 aka Montauk Highway, because of the likeness to it portrayed in the show.The 11th Hour Confession (!!!) -- Noah, you dolt, why didn't you just let Gottlief point all the evidence in the world toward Alison, get acquitted, and THEN confess, along with getting Helen to artificially corroborate your story (because a confession alone isn't dispositive of guilt in the eyes of the law)?? Noah wouldn't be in any trouble because of double jeopardy, and even if the state went after Alison, Noah's confession and Helen's corroboration would be enough to establish reasonable doubt in her case. (Noah would just have to be damn sure neither the Feds nor the army could go after him for this incident before confessing. Helen's payment for Gottlieb's services could probably get him to clear this up for Noah in less than a day).

Isn't vitamin C one of the easiest vitamins to get? Can't Yo get 100% of her body's daily requirement by eating an orange? I do realize that's about a whole 80 calories though...

Anyone know how to do spoiler tags? I can't figure them out. But I'm on a tablet, which won't even let me do italics, so maybe I don't have that ability. Anyone care to instruct? Thanks.