LibertarianSlut

Thanks for the link! Per that article, Matt appeared at a MeetUp event that spelled "company's" wrong in its promotional material, and Gina seems to think that the way to write "three times" is "3x's." Frankly, I don't know why they're divorcing! So... she studied psychology in college... and then? Don't you graduate from college at like 21? She didn't have a child until she was about 27 or so. What was she doing? Any evidence she ever held a job? Got a masters? Living off the old man? I have to say, if Matt carried her financially and let her shop for most of her twenties and into her thirties, it might explain the easy divorce. One hand washes the other.

We learned more about Gina's marriage during this hour than we have over the entire season. I kept looking at her to gauge her age as if I knew nothing about her, and she looked positively 55 years old. Way too much vying for a second season from Gina. Shut the fuck up. Anyone know what kind of job Matt has that he can't film a reality show, but his wife can post his pic all over Insta? I am honestly wondering this. At first I thought he was an undercover FBI agent or something, but that makes no sense in light of his name and picture being everywhere anyway. Considering the fact that none of the ladies have even met him except Emily, I call bullshit on the job nixing it. Unless his girlfriend is his boss. "People don't get divorced because of affairs." Keep going, Gina. I need something to sew on a pillow. This is not my biggest beef with Gina, but I personally dislike it when people get married in a church and baptize their children, but then talk about their ambivalence about the existence of God. I don't care if you believe, it's not my business, but don't go through rituals if you think they're meaningless. it seems a little disrespectful to the people who earnestly observe God and find their faith through Him. If Gina thinks there is a "separation between church and state" between religion and morality, it's a fine argument to make, as many atheists are moral, but then what are you going to tell your kids about why you got them baptized? "Just in case" sounds like the punchline of a joke to me, not a reason to take a major spiritual step on behalf of someone else. Who knows--maybe it's just bitch eating crackers syndrome here with me and Gina. It just seems like she has a lot of advice, Mafia-style, she likes to dish out, but when it comes to her own life, it looks very unplanned, sloppy and reckless. That was boring.

What's even more ironic is that the woman whom Kandi's mom threatened to beat with a shoe at the wedding dress store is the same woman Kandi brought on last episode to talk about Dennis being a dog--her assistant, Carmon.

I think you made a lot of good points. I agree it's been Teresa's show, probably since she tossed Andy on his chair in the season two reunion, and I agree it hasn't exactly been poetic. I agree that family members shouldn't be cast on this show, if they're going to be adversaries, like Teresa and Melissa. It not only makes filiming uncomfortable, but it makes it unrealistic. Teresa and Melissa probably wouldn't have very much to do with each other if they weren't on the same show, so seeing them go to Oklahoma together, along with a bunch of other "friends" (whom they hardly even know) is kind of...stupid. I think it's more ok to cast family if they come on the show as people who would naturally be in each other's lives, like Nicole and Ter-ESS-a or Caroline, Jacqueline and Dina. If they have a falling-out after that (as the latter three did)? I don't care as much, because it probably would have happened anyway (wasn't it revealed that Caroline doesn't speak to some of her other siblings either?). I'm not sure the Gorga/Giudice detente timeline was as linear as Melissa and Joe cozying up to Teresa after she got back from " away." The first schism in the alliance that was Gorga/Manzo/Lauritae/Walkile vs Guidice happened in season four, when they were in Napa and Caroline started a batshit-crazy argument with Teresa, and the Gorgas and the Guidices flew out early, leaving Caroline sobbing on a bed. Then things went askew again at the finale, when Teresa allegedly accused Melissa of having been a stripper, which I thought was such a bullshit accusation against Teresa that had no legs, whereas Melissa kept changing her story. That, and the way Jaqueline, Lauren Manzo and Rosie used every disgusting trick in the play book to try to tear Teresa apart at the reunion was when I officially switched to Team Juicy. I think almost all of season five was a realignment, with the Gorgas and Guidices reuniting from the Lake George Accords (aka the fight that left the mysterious hair polish everywhere) on, and teaming up against the Manzos/Lauritae/Walkiles when it was in their best interest. Season six, as I remember it, was all cozy between the sister in laws, but no one knew Teresa was going to jail until the very end of season six. (The judge even said she had been planning on only probation for Teresa, pretty much until sentencing day, when she saw that, once again, Teresa failed to fill out essential paperwork given to her by the court). I think the cozying up that occurred after prison was due in large part to a common enemy (first Jacqueline, then Siggy), not so much because the Gorgas were looking at Teresa as a cash cow who was going to save their bacon (too many meat metaphors there, perhaps). Can we say that the Gorgas took a gamble that Teresa was going away and thought they were taking over the show in her absence? I am not sure I see evidence of that as far as the timeline goes. I think it's more likely that the Gorgas gave up the feud in part because they thought Teresa might be less of a force to be reckoned with, as her husband was definitely going down, and in part because their feud was getting boring, and they wanted to stay ahead of the curve with regard to storyline. Either way, there is no love lost there, and plenty of unfinished business to complete. They are such a dysfunctional family. I think Teresa's mom's death, and the fact that Teresa thinks Joe Guidice somehow "made" her lose a year with her mom, is playing a huge role in the 180 degree change in demeanor Teresa is showing from being all post-prison Namaste.

I think the reunion is going to be really good. The links below are really good. I don't know if this is a spoiler, because it's out there, and I don't know how to do a hidden contents boxes, so just don't click on either of the links if you want the reunion to be a total surprise. https://realityblurb.com/2018/11/24/rhocs-vicki-gunvalson-reveals-who-told-her-about-kelly-dodds-alleged-cocaine-use-denies-ever-using-drugs-and-fires-back-at-claims-of-hypocrisy/ http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-orange-county/season-13/videos/heres-your-first-look-at-the-rhoc-season-13 I'm just going to say that I can't stand it when people attribute criminilatity to Housewife behavior with which they don't agree. I have a link to a website that explains California defamation that I am going to post as soon as the Kelly-Vicki exchange airs. There is no crime of defamation in California; it's only a civil wrong, and good luck proving that, Kel. i can't stand the armchair lawyering that goes on when one Housewives tells a giant lie ("fraud!!!!!") or says something really shitty about someone ("defamation!!!!!"). We might hate them, but we also have a First Amendment, and in order for something to be a crime or a tort, it must meet specific criteria, all of which must be proven in court. If simply being reckless with your language were against the law, we'd probably all be in jail!

Yeah, I think Gina and Matt are not doing the kids any favors by rotating in and out of one house. I saw this before, on the fictional show Billions, and I thought it made sense in that instance, because the kids were older, and I think disrupting their daily lives would have been hard for them. The kids were in their teens, so they knew what a divorce was, and they knew that when dad was home, mom wouldn't be, and vice versa. Gina's kids are so young that I don't think it would upset some great routine if they were just taught from an early age that mom has her house and dad has his house. The parents were already pretty much living separately before they even separated, so what's the difference after all? The she-beast that is Tamra even managed to put her kids first when she divorced Simon, and they wound up living within walking distance of one another, but only talked over text, which I thought was a great arrangement for their kids. I so think this is just Matt's manipulation of Gina. He can live in "North LA" most of the time, and when he visits his kids, he can stay in the nice comfy OC home, while booting her to the casita. She should have never agreed to leave the marital home. He can find his own casita. She looked so pathetic making up a bed for him in the OC house while she packed her shit. I also think she looks pathetic in the stories she gives Bravo about Matt. In one story she said that Matt told her he wanted to come kick Shane's ass (where was he, then?). In another story, after the split went public, Gina talked about how normal things were, how great they were doing. Then there is always the obligatory post-split picture on Instagram of Gina and her family, where she looks like she is in the throes of wedded bliss and he looks like he is searching for the nearest exit. I am ashamed for Gina to see these photos where she is leaning on Matt as if he didn't move away and then divorce her. I also think that pose sends a potentially damaging message to her children. Her kids are young, but they're not that young. Once she explained to them that "mommy and daddy don't love each other the way mommies and daddies are supposed to love each other," she should have stopped leaning on her husband in family photos. The kids need to understand that mom and dad are separate entities now. These touchy-feely pictures that she posts with gushing Instagram stories that mention nothing about divorce are just assurances from Gina to Gina that everything is alright in her marriage, even as she gets a divorce. She is delusional. She is getting played. I think that, while this divorce is being settled and the kids are still unsure to the point where they are asking their mom if she's going to her "little house," Gina should just unplug from social media and put her family first. She is looking crazy. She does not want this divorce. It is crystal clear. I really would have liked to be a fly on the wall when Matt convinced her it was the best thing for everyone. He must be one convincing son of a gun to have been able to get Gina not to fight it and to just capitulate--no trial separation, no counseling--just, one day we're happily married, one day we're getting divorced (but everything's fine!) As far as Matt crashing on the couch, I am sure Gina proposed it, and Matt said no way. I actually think that's a really bad idea. When people are divorcing, it's for a reason. They need to be apart. They need to set new boundaries and set new examples for their kids. They need to stop having damn sex. I never thought I'd be saying this, but Gina could actually take a lesson from Kelly. Kelly made a complete break from Michael, and now that it is crystal clear to all parties involved that they are divorced, they can do nice things for their daughter, like sit together at theater performances. You need to split, though, before you can be together in any capacity IMO. They are potentially really fucking up their kids. My gosh, I hope Gina and Matt get their shit together before their children reach adolescence. Otherwise they will hear some other kid say that their parents are divorced, but they're still friends, and Gina and Matt's kids are going to respond that their parents are divorced, but their mom says it's not a divorce, it's just a regrouping. I feel bad for the poor therapist who is going to have to untangle this mess and hopefully restore some sanity to a chaotic situation created by some adults that were too selfish (Matt) and immature (Gina) to divorce properly. If Emily, the mental-health whisperer, is really Gina's friend, she will tell Gina to get her head out of her ass and realize that this thing with Matt is not only over, but it's long over, and to act accordingly for her own sake, and for that of her children. I actually think Gina's crazy is more damaging than Shannon's. Shannon is just an easier target.

There is a lot about Teresa that is wrong. From the way she opens her mouth, but instead of speaking she just makes cyclical gestures with her arms and hands, to the excessive blinking, I really think she is not firing on all cylinders. I don't know if Teresa is coming off particularly poorly this season, because there is no one worse to foil her, but I can't stand her anymore. I was actually pro-Teresa since season five--maybe even a little before then--because there was either a pile-on (and I loathe a pile-on), or there was just someone so odious (Jacqueline, Siggy), that it took the heat off Teresa a little. I think it's so obvious that Teresa was never meant to "carry" this franchise. It kind of just fell into her lap and she ran with it, but I think she was always just meant to be the ditzy friend. I'm not sure how feminine I've ever really found her, but I know what you mean. It's like she got very hard these past few years--hard looking and a hard attitude. It lifted a bit in the season prior to and the one after prison, I mean, camp. But she's getting very ugly again now, and it's oozing out of her pores. I think she is desperate. I think she is convinced she got a raw deal. She is anything but the easygoing girl who changed her outfit 150 times before being ready to go to the pool at the Borgota in season one, the one who would "love, love, love" everything. I actually like the original format of this show--sisters who are married to brothers, and their friends. But since I hate a pile-on, I wound up hating them all by season two. I only imagine what it would have been like if they had cast Dolores instead of Danielle in the beginning. Maybe the franchise would still be intact, and Teresa would still be the friend. Weird. Personally, I don't like anyone carrying any franchise--it's an ensemble cast. I don't like how we keep seeing the same players at the top of these franchises--Nene, Teresa, Bethenny, Lisa Vanderpump, etc., and then their rotating minions. Everyone should have their own storyline and carry their own weight or they are done. The two new women should have more screen time and their own storylines by now. Melissa is a total snooze and very fake when she's not fighting with Teresa. There is nothing compelling or aspirational about her. Her kids are even boring. Last year I was very interested in Marge. I felt like she commanded every scene she was in, and she was charming. This year...not so much. You know how a even a stopped clock is right twice a day? I am so glad to have Jacqueline (and Kathy) off my screen, but I felt like that last season Jacqueline was on, she made an odd sort of sense at times. Not when she was sitting in people's laps and telling them to rage on her ass so much, but more toward the beginning of the season when she wanted to set the record straight about Teresa's problems, and Teresa just wasn't having it. I never really got that about Teresa. She thinks she can give interviews to the tabloids about her money problems and how she and Joe may be going to jail, but her friends aren't entitled to ask about it? I could just never imagine a friendship like that. For some reason, no one is ever allowed to ask Teresa to get real. It seems like those twins were getting close--they didn't know her and they didn't care for her asking if their mom had sex with Rino--and next thing we know, the twins are gone. She is a fan favorite, and Andy will protect her to the end of the world. I just really don't like her anymore. She is lonely, angry, fake and mean. I want to know how she kept that mausoleum after bankruptcy and all the Giudice crimes. It doesn't seem fair that they didn't have to move back to Paterson, in the home with linoleum floors, when you see other Housewives downsizing for a lot less. If she were stripped of that home, I think it would sever her last vestige of "fabulosity." She'd just be another tacky bitch with horrible makeup and a bad dye job. I also think if you put Melissa and Joe into a normal 2,000 square foot home, no one would want to film them either. It should be interesting to see what happens when Joe Giudice gets out of jail, and whether he really gets deported. I know he's a horrible person, but I actually kind of like him. There have got to be more interesting women, more wealthy New Jersey women who are willing to have their lives filmed. Maybe move to a different part of the state. They don't even live in the wealthiest part. If Andy moved this franchise to horse country and recast them all in favor of WASPs, it would be so cool if for no other reason to see the tacky bitches get their comeuppance for bringing us nothing for so long. This is the first time I'm saying this, and it never occurred to me not to watch a Housewife franchise if it was available--but if certain franchises--including this one, continue to fail to deliver by the end of the season, I might just stick with OC, NYC, Potomac, Dallas, and Melbourne, if it ever comes back. NJ and ATL need complete recasts, and BH just hides too much to the point where I stop caring.

The problem, as I see it, is that there is no a priori amount of time that one is supposed to take with an elderly parent. Almost no one has a contract. It does not fall to the law, the way it does with minor children. It's an act of mercy. It's like giving to charity--no one can demand that you SHOULD do it. If Teresa took that upon herself, good on Teresa. If Joe doesn't want to see him or talk to him, the only thing I will say is that he can take the time to tell us why (the economics, as I've posted upthread, should probably be more-or-less split down the middle between the siblings, but as someone else posted upthread, Medicare pays for a lot of these expenses, including home health aides). Joe probably doesn't want to embarrass his father, but this storyline is plenty embarrassing to all parties involved as it is. He might as well tell us instead of hiding behind his wife like a bitch. Personally, I have a grandmother in a nursing home 15 minutes away, and I haven't see her in a year in a half, and I won't see her again. If I have any feeling at all when she dies, it will be relief. That is my boundary, because she has been just awful over the course of pretty much my entire life. She was always putting me down, saying no one would want me, and she only got worse when I became an adult. It was like she had no use for someone in law school--why educate yourself when you can be out trying to snag a rich man? With her, everything was always about catching a man and it became very damaging to my psyche. Add that to her outbursts, just being indecent, saying hateful things to and about strangers, cutting down your looks from head to toe every time she sees you, cutting down your education, purposely pitting cousins against one another, questioning people's marriages and talking awful about my dad's side of the family from the time I was yay high, she would put Papa Gorga to shame. In my mind, my mom, who claims she goes to visit my grandmother every day (more like four times a week, but ok), doesn't have any moral high ground over my aunt, who lives across the country and comes once a year. I don't attribute staying away with shrifting your burden; I attribute it to survival. As far as the "right thing," this is the right thing for me to do. It's apparently the right thing for my aunt to do. The person who didn't do the right thing was my grandmother, spewing venom for decades, and it's not my responsibility that her chickens have come home to roost. My mom didn't do the right thing by failing to shield me from her. And for those who preach forgiveness, I discuss these topics with my therapist, and from time to time I even bring my mom to therapy, so that I can move on from some of the toxic occurrences that went on in my childhood, so that I don't bring them to my marriage, and to anyone else. (I'm much more concerned that I don't pick up my family's dysfunction and run with it than I am with forgiving any particular person and forging some type of relationship with them before they die. The people whom she didn't abuse can show her mercy. I'm dealing with myself.) I guess that's why I keep aligning with the Gorgas in this particular instance, when I am otherwise nothing like them. So, IMO and in my experience, if this grandfather is actually toxic, Joe doesn't need to call him or see him at all. And he doesn't need to apologize about it. From what we've seen from the footage, I doubt Sr Gorga is this harmless old man. I agree we should be given a baseline amount of time that a.) Joe has and b.) Joe is spending with his dad already, c.) Teresa has and d.) Teresa is spending with their dad. Without that, it becomes he-said, she-said from people who are too stupid to be reliable. (For fans of The Office, I'd personally employ Jim Halpert, as he was the one who accounted for how Dwight spent all of his seconds at work). Lastly, if time spending = good person, isn't Teresa the biggest fucking hypocrite of them all that she can only be bothered to drive the hour and a half to visit her husband who went to the pen to give her a lavish lifestyle "once a month on average" aka every two months? The dad loves Juicy; why isn't Teresa killing two birds with one stone and driving her father down to see him at Ft Dix every other weekend, at minimum? Hmm, could it be because she doesn't want to and she's avoiding Juicy because she resents him? Sounds familiar...

Say what you like about Leann, but I believe she is an animal lover. Brandi, on the other hand, can't be bothered to secure her dog on her property, and doesn't care anymore whether it gets out? Oh, hell no. If you can't take care of a dog, what are you doing adopting a baby? If I were the adoption agency, Brandi saying that would raise as many red flags as anything else she has done/has been attributed to her. Steph, you're right; you weren't being a good friend when you let Brandi get away with that irresponsible shit. If Brandi is such a good mom, as she claims, what is she going to tell the kids when some neighbor hands her a bloody mass of flesh where Fluffy used to be? "Mommy was too busy getting wasted in an attempt to thwart her enemies that she neglected to put the dog inside" doesn't have the best ring to it.

You guys--how was she able to hide this Bethenny Frankel lantern jaw for an entire season? I'm actually impressed. Now I can't unsee it though.

Teresa said again last night that she, too, has to work. Does anyone know to what she was referring? Was she referring to her workouts? Those fake meetings she takes in New York that pertain to the books she doesn't write? Is she breaking the fourth wall and talking about this show? I am just really curious. She keeps mentioning it.

As soon as Teresa said that Melissa and Joe went off to the Bahamas on the first anniversary of their mom's death, I was like, "oh, because they didn't want to exploit a death for TV, so they skipped the country." When they were sitting on the deck later in the episode, Marge pretty much confirmed my suspicion without breaking the fourth wall. One of the things I think Melissa was trying to convey to Teresa in that last scene--and I admire Melissa's honesty, and Teresa's willingness not to interrupt--is that they are not Italian. They are Italian-American. If Teresa's parents are Italian, that is fine. But Melissa is saying she doesn't feel beholden to Italian traditions. Teresa won't accept that, so she won't accept Melissa. (Teresa is also very selective with her "Italian" traditions, but that's another story. Fake breasts make Melissa look like a stripper, but Teresa's are ok because she got them after she was married? Well, in that case...). It is one of my pet peeves when people do things just out of tradition, when it means nothing to them. Anything my husband and I do is because it means something to us. Sometimes that means following a tradition, and sometimes that means paying it no mind. Melissa has that same space with her family. Teresa has that same space with her family. I really think that when Teresa mentions "my family," she thinks that the whole set of people--the Gorgas and the Giudicess--are her family, as in, she's in charge of them. I don't know if it's because Teresa's parents glorified her, or because she looks at herself as the matriarch because she's older, but again, that's not going to play out her way. I can't believe how out of line she was at the breakfast table in Oklahoma. Melissa specifically asked to have the dicusssion at a different place and time, and Teresa kept going, which was so uncalled for. Then Dolores butting in right after Melissa kindly tells her to mind her own business? Not cool. I agree with Jackie---Melissa was a lot calmer than.a lot of people would be. Teresa can't force Joe to want to spend time with his father. That is a losing battle. If she wants him to pitch in with the caregiving, that's another story, but it's not something you're going to nag someone into either. And Melissa can't control her husband. Why would she want to either? I said last week that they should look into assisted living, but that they are probably too broke. Then Teresa mentioned that she was wearing $1,000 boots. My sympathy went out the window at that point. If her brother isn't going to pitch in, Teresa can just leave it alone, see him and his wife on holidays, nod and smile, and hire someone to come around and spend time with their dad instead of wearing $1,000 boots. Also, if Melissa and Joe can afford to go to the Bahamas on the off season (as in, it's not comped by Bravo), then they can kick in some for elder care as well. Asking Joe to cough up some money is a lot more of a reasonable request than demanding that Joe spend time with his father when he clearly doesn't want to, for whatever reason. I don't know where Teresa thinks she is getting by yelling across a table that Melissa should take note that Joe spends time with his father when Melissa isn't around. Does Teresa think Melisss is going to think about that statement reasonably, nod, and then make plans to move into an apartment with her children and her maybe-half-sister, so that Papa Gorga can live out his life the way that Teresa intended? A few seasons ago Melissa straight-up asked Teresa, "Do you want your brother to get a divorce?" I really think now, with Teresa caring for their parent, and Joe Giudice getting deported, Teresa would be happy if Melissa just moved out of the picture and Joe Gorga moved into the mausoleum with her and her kids. What a sick bitch. Now that I just defended the Gorgas and I feel gross, I will say it annoyed me to great lengths that disgusting Joe, with his old-fashioned ideas and not a brain cell working behind his eyes, got his own scene and talking heads. That was super weird. I hate when they film just a husband, or some of the husbands. It's a show about women and wives. I can't even imagine what would motivate Joe to want to film his own scenes. He does himself NO favors. Also, my entire life growing up, my dad worked really long hours--also in construction--though I'm not sure he worked 15 hour days. And I couldn't prcture my dad sitting around with my mom in their bedroom, bitching to my mom about my aunt while she packed. It just would never happen. People who work 15 hour days don't have time to bitch. They literally don't even have time to sleep. He is so full of shit. Was I alone in thinking Nu Jackie won the episode? I guess it's a pretty common experience for us women to get so caught up in a diet that we are weighing and measuring everything that goes in our mouths, so I related to what she said about bringing her own food to the restaurant in her twenties. It's not exactly an eating disorder, but it feels like something unhealthy is controlling life. I wanted to see more wedding pics. I think she still has a bit of a hollow look to her, though with muscle, and I'm glad she's healthy for her kids. I'm glad for the episode that she spoke her mind, and didn't seem to be putting on airs for the cameras. She seems legit.

I wonder if this conversation would be going the same way if we were talking about domestic violence. To me, the cheating is domestic violence. Not only does it result in such a profound loss of trust and echoes of the idea that I wasn't enough, but if he is cheating, how do I know he's wrapping it up? Part of taking vows and settling into a marriage, is that you're not supposed to have to worry about getting STDs. When I was in law school, I worked at a family law firm in Miami, and the firm had a very wealthy client (no one walked through those doors who wasn't wealthy) who caught genital herpes from her husband, and that shit had spread to parts of her body that were...yikes. And that virus is with you for life. So I will definitely say 1.) it became my business to speculate about who is and isn't cheating when these people signed on the dotted line to make a lot of money off of my watching their lives for sport; and 2.) My husband and I would definitely split if I found out he was cheating in any form whatsoever. That is something I know about myself. I don't have to have experienced it to know I couldn't and would never want to live in that situation. You don't want me/ you want someone who is not me? You couldn't pay me enough money to share a bed with someone who had that attitude. Your bags are packed, Ciao adios, you're gone. No one will ever have that power over me to keep me in a relationship where I am left feeling inferior so...I don't claim that it would be easy to watch my husband pack his shit, and to have the bills changed to my name, but believe me, it would happen!

I'm not advocating that they ever shut the camera off (except for narrow exceptions for reunions). I think there should be a live camera 24/7 at least when they are on cast trips, just so they can't sneak off and do things without our knowledge. A big moment just happened during a cast trip on Married to Medicine, and they didn't have video--just audio--so the viewer couldn't determine whether Toya shoved Conetessa by accident or on purpose and I thought that was an epic fail. What I am saying is that they have no business airing the bullshit they caught while waiting for a big moment and calling it a reunion. Yes, have a camera on in case something insane happens. No, don't show me the mundane footage that you picked up while nothing happened. If they wanted to reveal that MJ was pregnant to the approximately one viewer who didn't already know, they could have easily spoken about that at the top of the reunion proper. They've "revealed" pregnancies this way before (RHNJ) and there has been no problem with it. They clearly don't have enough good footage for two reunion episodes, so why not make the reunion one episode and then do a behind-the-scenes episode to air after the reunion (I refuse to call it "Secrets Revealed," because no secrets are ever revealed)? That would be more honest. I didn't see the Shahs season four reunion (that I remember), but my one exception to "the camera goes everywhere" would be to strongly enforce a rule that no cameras follow reunion walk-offs. It would end walk-offs, except for the people who sincerely don't want to be filmed, and who wants to see someone rip off a mic anyway (a la GG this past episode)? It would end the behind-the-scenes drama. Everything would play out on stage, because that's the only place the cameras would be. And these people are total camera whores. As far as the last RHoA reunion goes, I'm sure if Kim were feeling a way about racism, or anything else, and she was prepared for it to be aired, it would have surfaced on camera sooner or later. But enabling these walk-offs to the point where Andy is encouraging Ho wives to follow one another off stage like he did on RHBH when Lisa Rinna walked off after being presented with the rabbit? That shit has got to stop, like, yesterday.

I dunno. You and I seem to agree that Nene is not the typical caregiver by a long shot. So what is she doing venting to a tabloid? Methinks she is planting the seed for when she does decide to "leave" (leaving = Gregg leaving). I feel bad even going here, cause I thought what Porsha did to to Kandi was awful, but Porsha didn't commit a crime when she told Kandi what she heard from Phaedra (which Phaedra later admitted to saying, and it got her booted from the show). I looked up Georgia law and I highly doubt it's even fodder for a civil suit. Kandi would have to show actual (not potential) damage in order to prevail, and there's nothing in the footage to show that. Kandi is a public person, which makes it a lot harder to prove defamation. Yes, turnabout is fair play, and I'm not exactly losing sleep at night about the idea that Kandi is bringing people on to film that Dennis is...someone who dated other people I guess? I just don't think it's a good look on her. Porsha was on WWHL and she said that Dennis doesn't have any other women's names tattooed on his body that she knows of, though he has pictures of the faces of his sister, mother and grandmother tattooed on his body. Kandi? I think you can sit this one out. The story is writing itself.

They always get the entire season's footage prior to the reunion. They always talk about the entire season on every reunion of recent memory (I can't speak to the early RHOC reunions where nobody fought, and they wore jeans and sat on stools). This is one thing all the Housewives and Andy have been consistent about. We will 100% get Shannon's reaction to this finale at the reunion. Tamra and Shannon both have the pimp seats and are going head-to-head at the reunion. Buckle your seat belts everyone! Yeah... what the fuck was Shannon wearing? Was it a subtle "fuck you" to Emily, as in, "I don't give a shit about the theme of your party and I'm only going to be there for an hour anyway?" One can only hope. I hate to do this to you, but, for the sake of posterity, I have to mention it was the season 4 finale that Gretchen got the pink motorcycle, and all the other stuff that happened was season 5 (Jeff was dead by then). But I agree 1000% that those were two of the best seasons in all of Housewives history, and I would trade entire franchises (you hear me, Beverly Hillls?) to get those times back. Its sad how few original thoughts I had about this finale. Um, just that Gina has a lot more to be embarrassed about before her mom than her outfit (which was no tighter than the one in which she left the casita). Like still having sexual encounters with her estranged husband? I am Team Abuela, only because it doesn't look like Tamra is going to be taken down by anyone (except maybe Shannon, and that won't last). But Shannon had the wrong approach by copping to having one night of drunken insanity, but she is otherwise totally mentally healthy. It's too defensive. Just go on the offense, and tell Gina that you're worried that she is stirring the pot, which was a good pivot. Of course we then get treated to Gina's various facial expressions and gesticulations, so I'm not sure that was good for the viewer (note to Gine: a dark lip is not your friend). But, really, what did Shannon expect when she invited Kelly and Gina to her house "four days after surgery"? If you're healing and not up to see anyone, don't let Gina--who is not your friend--into your house and then act like a victim afterward. Maybe it was post-surgery meds messing with Shannon's decision-making, but I took that scene as Gina giving the message that Gina's loyalty was up for grabs (and Kelly, by virtue of being there, was delivering the same message). Said alliance would have come with Emily as a package deal (she came on this show as a former enemy and gossip-stirrer with regard to Tamra). IMO Shannon fumbled the ball. Vicki would have ridden the fence, which is her MO as of late, so Shannon theortically could have taken on Tamra four against one. I guess Shannon's strength (her loyalty) is also her blindness. Also, how does Kelly, who said the exact same thing, at the exact same time as Gina get away scot free? Is this Ireland all over again? My goals here are 1.) take down Tamra, and since it looks like that's not going to be achieved this time around, then 2.) never having to see Emily or Gina on my screen again. Shannon is going nowhere. She is reality TV gold. I just think she makes some missteps that make me shake my head in frustration, but it keeps me watching...

I'm fine to sit here at my table for one, but I really don't think Nene is all that affected by the fact that Gregg has cancer past the point that it affects her life. Someone posted an article in the Nene thread that she did with US Weekly, and it was basically all about her. She sleeps upstairs, he sleeps downstairs. So...if he needs something in the middle of the night...? He's SOL? The article is all about how Nene feels, and what did she do to deserve this, and there is a whole paragraph at the end about how she thinks about leaving. Leaving? LEAVING? And this is what she is willing to say publicly; Can you imagine what she is saying/thinking privately? https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/nene-leakes-gets-real-about-husband-gregg-leakes-cancer-battle/ I think she is ok if he dies. She just wants this to end. (And I don't really judge her for that; a lot of people grieve their loved one's loss before they're dead, and they have little quality of life. On the other hand, it's not as if the guy is on artificial life support). I just feel like I've been watching a different show than some of y'all last night. What I saw was that Gregg would have possibly tried chemo, but Nene didn't want it, hence the tree. It was very subtle, but it was there. I have seen and read about this phenomenon. One partner simply thinks another has lost their usefulness, and they convince the other that they shouldn't fight to the death. (And I'm not going to say whether he should keep fighting one way or the other. That's a personal choice). But I abolsutely think Gregg would be making a play for chemo if Nene were relying on Gregg to help her raise children or for income. This article, plus the footage, shows me that Nene is worried about Nene. If he dies, I predict she will have a public boyfriend in a hot minute. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if she already has one now. This is not a ride-or-die couple. He went to the radio station and gave an interview about how she was messy with his money, she chewed him out for doing her dirty on national TV, they divorced because of money troubles, she was publicly receiving gifts and affection from another man while they were apart, and then they remarried probably in large part to get a Bravo spin-off and that $. I think they were more like companions, even prior to the diagnosis. So it doesn't surprise me that she is handling it this way. I don't think this is some tragic love story by a long shot. No judgment. Just calling balls and strikes.

See, I think Daddy is cheating because of things he and Heavenly have said and have not said. Daddy is always very silent about these things, even though he is not afraid to speak up on other matters. Compare that to Eugene, who just came out and said that he thought Curtis's cheating was ungodly. Heavenly also got drunk last season and said, "If Daddy cheated, it wouldn't be his fault!" That, right there, is a huge red flag that he's cheating to me. I don't think that women who are confident in their husband's faithfulness make statements like that, drunk or sober. But the difference between Daddy and Aydin to me is suspicion vs confirmation. I can't really get mad at Daddy for something I suspect. I can sure as hell think Aydin is a piece of garbage though. I don't think there is an excuse for it. I don't think people should go around having "arrangements," which I'm sure Mariah thinks she has. The arrangement, to me, is that you took vows to be faithful to one another. If you can't--or won't--abide by that, then you get a divorce. Maybe it's my limitation or failure to see all the complexities of the human condition, but I subscribe to the school that you don't get married if you're going to fuck other people.

This is funny. I feel like Gina came onto the show trying to portray the Brenda and Eddie story as herself and Matt. But did she listen to the whole song? They got a divorce as a matter of course...

I thought this episode was the best yet of the season. Even though it was chock-full of out-of-state activity, and FaceTime conversation, my two least favorite things. I really think it's time for Porsha's ass to become a full-time cast member. It got more camera time tonight than Cynthia. Does Kandi think Porsha necessarily cares about these things she's bringing to light about Dennis? It's not as if she's alleging the Rolex is fake--that is something Porsha would care about, after all. I don't like Kandi bringing people on to film their knowledge of Dennis's dirty dealings, without warning Porsha first. That's below Kandi. It doesn't matter that they're not friends--they're supposed to be "cool" now. This is some Phaedra-level shit. I don't like Shamiri so far. She thinks way too highly of herself. WAY. TOO. HIGHLY. She and Cynthia "Bailey-que" Bailey are either going to get along famously, or they are going to throw down. Cynthia fired the first shot by saying the outfits were dated (while wearing army fatigues, which were popular in 2005). I was glad to see Nene wasn't really having Shamiri either. I know the long sip during the talking heads has been done a million times before, but Nene's was especially good. Nene's demeanor during Gregg's hospital visit reminded me of the way Kim would probably be if Kroy ever got sick and needed medical attention. Except there was less wig petting involved here. Glad there was no name-dropping on this epi. Was the new girl in a singing group or something? Is her husband famous? Is Kandi famous? She was kind of vague about it. And then the husband telling Kandi to do a better show...Kandi should have shut him down right then and there. I feel like Kandi has told a son of a gun off for less. Also, if these two are so fabulous, they might want to get a housekeeper and give their filthy dog a bath before they showcase their "fabulous" lives on TV some more. Eva...I tried to have your back. I remember you from back in the day on America's Next Top Model, and I thought the way she repeatedly referred to Cynthia as "Mother" was hilarious, and reminded me as to why I watch this show. That being said, two things: 1.) stop talking about Marlo. You're a cast member. She's a friend-of. Don't give her light or air. Probably, also, don't feed her after midnight. 2.) Stop bringing up Shamea, for the same reason. Also, I had completely forgot that Shamea alleged that Eva dated Missy Elliot until Eva brought it back up. If you want people to forget the rumors, stop talking about them. At least this episode made me excited to see next week, and I cannot wait to see what happens with Kandi and Porsha, so something is finally picking up. Damning with faint praise, I know.

I thought Mariah's apology to Damon sucked. She basically said, "I'm not going to talk about your cheating anymore, because that's between your family. I shouldn't have gone there, and I will not talk about your cheating again." Classic passive-aggressive, furthering of the gossip, non-apology there. Now, do I think Daddy is cheating? I totally think he's cheating, but if Mariah wanted to apologize about saying it, she could have injected a little, "I have no right to say untrue things about you, just because I'm fighting with your wife." That would have been a real apology. If she doesn't think she has anything to apologize about, keep your trap shut. I have been wanting to ask this so badly: why don't we hear more about Aydin's cheating? Last season, and at last season's reunion, it has been totally confirmed by Mariah and Aydin that he either has cheated, or cheats, or both. There was no question about that. This season, when the blog came out about Greg, Mariah told Aydin that she didn't want to see him written about in some blog, which led me to believe that he is still cheating. Why have we heard nothing further about this, other than one throwaway line from Heavenly? I don't get it: we go through an entire season about Curtis cheating, where Jackie aired out everything for us to see, and she must have been humilitated. Lisa Nicole was forced to get into graphic detail about her husband's cheating. But Mariah doesn't have to spill...cause she's a producer? I can't think of anything else. And Aydin the cheater can miss me with telling Mariah, at the table, that she shouldn't trust any of these people, but she should trust him, and he's her best friend. Um, dude, you are cheating. She, literally, by definition, can't trust you. I don't know how on earth one spouse can allow another spouse to get away with that bullshit. Chanel is good, but it ain't that good. Or make like Quad, ditch the cheater, and pay for your own Chanel. (Or live separately for awhile and go to counseling--I know they have kids and I'm not saying she should just cut and run, but she should not put up with cheating. I don't respect that, and it's not a good example for anyone).

But if Gia is feeling burdened by her grandfather, that doesn't necessarily make it Joe's problem. I agree 100% that she should be hanging out with friends, and not have any more cares in this world than she already does. But I don't think bringing her into an adult conversation alleviates that burden. I think it increases it. Teresa is treating Gia like she is her damn husband, asking Gia to come in on her side, because "it's two against one." Ugh, grow up! If Teresa is the primary caregiver for her father, she should be the one setting healthy boundaries so that Gia is not burdened. It should be something like, "Dad, Gia is not going to be available to bring you to and wait at a gravesite anymore. We'll set up a Lyft app on your phone, and we'll help you use it so that you can go see mom whenever you want. Gia is busy studying." And if he continued to bother Gia for rides after that? (Cause I just have a feeling he would get aggressive with her, the way he does with Melissa). Well, hell should have no fury like a mother protecting her kids. He can live in his own portion of the mausoleum with his own entrance, if he's going to try to give my kids guilt trips or make their lives any more difficult than they have to be. This! Joe should have just said--hoping Teresa didn't call him on his bluff--"Teresa, you're right. I don't get enough time with Dad. Seeing as how I work 15 hour days (yeah...in what universe?), let's just have dad come live with me, so that I can more easily catch him in the wee hours of the morning or at night." Teresa would lose her shit. Because it's not all about Nono by a long shot. As I mentioned in a post upthread, Teresa wants Joe around as a surrogate husband (even before Joe Giudice went away) and hasn't fully accepted that he has a wife and a family outside of her, and they come first. Bringing the dad to live with the Gorgas would be a power move, although I'm convinced Teresa would never go for it. The Gorgas have, I think, a 15,000 square foot home. They could make a space for him, and, again, set healthy boundaries so that Melissa is not caring for a fourth child. Then Teresa can stew in her own juices, and find something else to bitch about. I know it sounds like I'm on Joe's side, but I don't like any of them--Joe, Teresa, or Melissa. They're all shallow, vapid idiots, and I don't know how they're raising such good children. It's probably credit to the schools. I have just seen, firsthand, how people can be so afraid to say or do anything around their elders, for fear of hurting their feelings, and it winds up really damaging the nuclear family. I think, as far as elders go, their adult children should want to make the last chapters of their lives as comfortable as possible, but not at the expense of their own families. Being old does not confer any right to be rude or abusive, and kudos to the people who have the strength and courage to protect their spouses and children from some really unhealthy treatment, regardless of who is doling it out. That's what I'm seeing here. If Kathy and Rosie's sweet old mother were to go ill or need housing, I think the reaction might be different. I am assuming they are just too broke to consider assisted living, and not too "old school." Because, to me, that would be the perfect solution to the problem, and if they're not even considering it, I have no sympathy for any of them.

I don't understand the GG appeal either. I was looking at pictures of her online, and she was so attractive when this show first started. Now she looks like Maebe Funke from Arrested Development: A All this would be moot if it seemed apparent that she had a thought running through her head at any time, but when she is not raging, she is giggling. And she really bakes from the moment she wakes up every day?? And she's proud of that (or at least at peace with it)? Yup, supremely unappealing. Nema may have been intrigued by her in in the beginning out of a sense that she was 'other,' but I don't see him ever putting a ring on that, or making her a serious girlfriend. What do they have in common? She was too high and unfocused to do an elevator pitch. I have sympathy for MJ I don't have for GG. They have been horrible to each other, but I feel like MJ is more lost, whereas GG is viscous. All that being said, I think this reunion was really good! A little too much inside baseball, but much more entertaining than the season, which was an utter snooze. Damn. Bring back Asifa if you have to. Destiney offers nothing, in my opinion. She doesn't even have an aspirational lifestyle. Notice how they never show her at home? Because she's got nothing going on inside or outside of this show. Notice how now she is going hard for Mike? It seems like a desperate bid for another season. When Andy brought the lesbian rumors to Destiney's attention on his show, Destiney acted like that was the most disgusting lie that could have been uttered about her, but from the previews, apparently...there's truth to it? She is so uncompelling to me, that I simply don't care. Mike is a horrible human, but I think they are all sort of horrible people, so I really don't mind when he dishes it out. He gets as good as he gives. I think this "horrible person" stigma includes Nema. If he handled his divorce anything like his last 'relationship,' ("I...uh...almost kissed someone"), get the fuck out of here with that shit. If Mona were really so grown and over this, why would be even be entertaining text messages from Mike? God gave us the "block this user" button on the iPhone for a reason. Thought it was funny that Reza didn't even mention how the hair product investment was doing. All he did was justify the expense as being money set aside for their retirement. If that scheme were making money, he would have reported it! I hate, hate, hate how they have started editing these reunions so that we get to see "behind the scenes." I dont give a shit about how anyone's hair is being curled, or what side conversation MJ and Tommy are having about their baby. They should show us the reunion and the reunion only. If someone walks off--girl, bye! Producers following them with cameras only enable that behavior. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen, and we'll have the reunion without you. I think all these behind the scenes footage is being used as a crutch for the fact that there is simply just not enough good reunion footage to make two episodes. Fine, make it one episode, then, and put the behind-the-scenes stuff online for the people who actually care. Who is really going to care about this reunion after Thanksgiving anyway? I dont care about Vida. I am really uninterested in rehashing Shams again. People die, and it's sad. It doesn't make for good reality TV. Can we please just have another red velvet cake fight on a yacht or something?

I was listening to the Real Housewives podcast on the way home tonight, and Ben and Ronnie both said something thought-provoking: they said, basically, that they felt like the show was trying to manipulate us into being on Teresa's side, but that they feel uneasy taking her side, and that there's more to the story. I realized what my theory is: Teresa doesn't just want her brother to spend time with their father; I think she resents Joe for having a happy, full life with Melissa, and she feels like she got jilted somehow. She wants all of the Gorgas--not just her father--to come before Melissa (who, as we've been reminded by Teresa, is somehow not a Gorga). This has been her agenda the entire time. She now has just a slightly more sympathetic package in which to wrap it. I think there is also subtext that, since Joe Giudice is "away," Joe Gorga has some moral responsibility to step in as a surrogate father, the way he stepped up when Teresa was away. There certainly are some unhealthy dynamics going on there. This is just a quibble, but it kind of rubbed me the wrong way when Jennifer said she wanted to lose weight or something before she threw her axe, and Melissa, all faux-jokingly, was like, "girl, you have no excuse, you have a nanny!!" It felt a little passive-aggressive. Also, Melissa, have you tasted food? It's kind of the most amazing thing ever. It is the excuse. Jennifer, after having five children, isn't, like unhealthy overweight or anything. She's about the size of Dolores. She's smaller than Marge. She's much smaller than Oprah, and Oprah has more money than God. Thin is not necessarily a socioeconomic issue (although it's a factor). Not everyone's husband requires physical perfection in order to inject their "poison" into their wives either, but Melissa doesn't know from that world. I feel like there may be some envy, because Jennifer can afford a nanny. If Melissa wanted to be cool and supportive, she could have just been like, "you want to do yoga with me next week?" Yeah....that was a dig. Not very cute. Maybe the sister-in-laws aren't as different as they seem.

Yes, to so much of this. I think there's a lot going on here. You are 100% right that this is an issue between Joe and his dad. Teresa can't be the interloper. Gia can't be the interloper. I see, in my own family, and with my in-laws, just how destructive it can be when one family member intercedes on another's behalf. For me, it makes me not want to do something I was naturally going to do. Just an example: my m-i-l sent my husband and me an email reminding us that his sister's birthday is coming up. My husband and his sister are both in their forties. He has never forgotten her birthday in his entire life. So why is the mom emailing us about bullshit? It makes me want to be an asshole and dig in my heels and not send a card at all, even though my s-i-l didn't cause a problem. (This is part of a pattern of his mom communicating for his sister that began with our wedding, where I put his sister in my wedding out of obligation, but I really made an effort to be awesome, but she was just so passive and irresponsible that I had to cut off all communication with her prior to the wedding, and I almost cancelled my bridal party altogether out of hurt, and her mom kept trying to clean up her daughter's messes, which only made it more insulting, so there's much more to the story, so sorry if I sound ragey). The point is that a lot of this may have been a visceral reaction to Teresa telling him what to do. Also, Gia is a minor. She can talk to her godfather and uncle one-on-one about how she sees the situation with Nonna, but there was no room for her in that conversation. It puts Melissa in a shitty spot. Melissa can't speak her mind freely because she has to be (rightfully so) more sensitive to Gia's feelings. It was fucked up of Teresa to do that to Gia. Gia also told Joe that he should devote one day of each week to his father. She has no idea how busy grown-ups are, and if a man has three kids and a wife, that is a wildly high demand on his time. Notice how it was adults who advocated for something more realistic, like the phone calls and the drop-bys. Also, this is a TV show, so Melissa gets blame for hanging around to film this fight. She 100% should have been off hiding Easter eggs while Teresa got into it with Joe. She's (they all are) sacrificing family bounds for a paycheck. This is probably the thing I want to say with the greatest emphasis: people need to draw boundaries between their families of origin and their nuclear families once they are grown. I am a huge proponent of putting your spouse before every single other person on the planet, and luckily my husband is too, or I wouldn't have married him. Whether Joe sees his dad or not, Melissa needs to sit Joe down, in the marital home, or anywhere private, and tell Joe that he can do what he wants, but she is not going to be screamed at and spat on with a finger in her face by an angry old man. I would put him on notice that I'm not seeing Papa Gorga until he can learn how to behave around me (unless she doesn't care; that's up to her). Joe should understand this completely, and deal with his father on his own. I think if Melissa drew boundaries, the healing would start. If Melissa was out of the equation for the time being, Joe could potentially bond with his dad over guy things and child-related things, so Teresa could naturally drop out the equation too, and leave the guys to enjoy each other. See? Family harmony. You're welcome, Gorga/Giudices.