tv echo

I'm just sad today. Lately Arrow has been a slog to watch or post about... and it used to be my entertainment escape. I've stuck with the show through the good, the bad and the ugly, for four long years, mostly for OTA and Olicity. But now those elements seem to be disappearing from the show. I definitely think the EPs are doubling down on comic book elements and don't care about ratings (or the fans) now that they've passed 100 episodes. I think I'll watch through 509, but I may not continue after the mid-season break. However, even if I quit Arrow, I'll probably still check in with this forum - just not as often, nor will I post as much. Anyway, that's how I feel right now.

I just read through Ben Sokolowski's tweets/replies - these writers are genuinely clueless. Here's his latest...

‘Arrow’ Review: “Human Target” Yvonne November 7, 2016 http://www.theworkprint.com/arrow-review-human-target/123

I know we're not supposed to discuss politics in this forum, but can I please just post this as a historic memory (this video almost made me cry)...

SUMMARY OF 506 SPOILERS: S5, Episode 6: So It Begins -- Production code: 506. Shoot Dates: August 31-September 12, 2016. Director: John Behring. Writers: Wendy Mericle & Brian Ford Sullivan. Airdate: Nov. 9, 2016. (Aug. 31, 2016 MG tweet, page 43 of Spoilers thread) -- 506 episode synopsis: "SINS OF THE FATHER — When Prometheus ups his killing spree, Oliver (Stephen Amell) searches for connections between the victims. Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) and Curtis (Echo Kellum) discover the victims have a mysterious link to Oliver’s past and this new secret could upend his new team. Meanwhile, Thea (Willa Holland) has a heart-to-heart with Lance (Paul Blackthorne), and Felicity considers telling Malone (guest star Tyler Ritter) the truth about her work. John Behring directed the episode written by Wendy Mericle & Brian Ford Sullivan (#506). Original airdate 11/9/2016." (SpoilerTV article, page 47 of Spoilers thread) -- MG's Billy Joel song pick: "506 – You Picked a Real Bad Time." (Oct. 10, 2016 MG tumblr post, page 46 of Spoilers thread) -- 506 promo video posted. (CW_Arrow 506 promo video, page 48 of Spoilers thread) -- 506 dialogue tease: "I generally don’t kid about something that could get me ten years at Iron Heights.” (Nov. 8, 2016 ArrowWriters tweet, page 48 of Spoilers thread) -- 506 promo pics posted. (SpoilerTV article link in tweet, page 48 of Spoilers thread) -- Regarding 506 promo pic of Oliver as GA talking to tall white guy in beige trenchcoat, there's speculation that the guy is from S1's Royal Flush Gang episode and that he's Prometheus. In 106-Legacies, the Royal Flush Gang was made up of Derek Reston (played by Currie Graham), Kyle Reston (played by Kyle Schmid) and Teddy Reston (played by Tom Stevens). Derek Reston, the father, is the one who died in 106. Of those three actors, Kyle Schmid looks the most like the guy in the 506 promo pic. (Morrigan2575 and tv echo posts, page 1206 of Spoiler Discussion thread) -- On 506 title, Brian Ford Sullivan tweeted: "There's a #Babylon5 joke in the script to go with the title. Couldn't help myself @straczynski, a big fan." (Aug. 31, 2016 briforsul tweet, page 43 of Spoilers thread) -- On 506 theme, Brian Ford Sullivan tweeted: "506 was about... that would be spoiling! I will tease it's our thesis statement for the season and one of my favorite episodes of the show." (Nov. 4, 2016 briforsul tweet, page 90 of Target Practice thread) -- On when Prometheus will become more of a threat to Oliver and the team, MG: "Episode 506 is when things really start to kick into a higher gear. It’s a 23 episode season. This is true for all the shows, especially when you have a big bad that’s introduced in the first episode, but you have to strike a balance between it becoming the Prometheus show and becoming very repetitive, and teasing it out. Episode 506 felt right to us because 505 felt like the end of a chapter, and then 506 kicks things into another gear." (Oct. 19, 2016 Collider article, page 47 of Spoilers thread) -- On Prometheus, SA: "We start to unravel some of that mystery in Episode 6, but for the time being, we just know that he's a guy who's using lethal force. And he looks, conveniently, like a very evil version of my character." (Pic of page 36 of TV Guide, Sept. 26-Oct. 2, 2016 issue, page 44 of Spoilers thread) -- Per SA, starting with 506, they begin to explore why Prometheus "is doing what he's doing" and they'll be "calling back to early parts of the show." (Nov. 3, 2016 Seat42F video of SA interview, page 48 of Spoilers thread) -- On Kovar, MG: “You’ll meet him in episode 6... His first day of dailies were so strong that we figured out a way to expand his involvement, not in a huge way but slightly beyond the original three episodes that we had initially contracted him for... We knew we were going to have this character, and originally he was only going to be in three episodes... So we thought, if it’s only for three episodes, maybe we can spend some money and stunt cast. I hate using that phrase, but when you are going to get someone for a limited period of time, it opens you up to a wider variety of actors since you’re not asking them for a long-term commitment. Brian Ford Sullivan, one of the writers, threw out Dolph’s name. I was like, ‘That’s never going to happen, but yeah, sure. Why not try?'” Also MG: "By virtue of this character and the way we’re writing him and the way Dolph is performing him, he’s a wonderful mix in a way that we often haven’t had on the show in that his character is very erudite, but at the same time, he’s Dolph Lundgren so he’s very physically imposing... That’s a combination that we haven’t always had on the show.” (Oct. 12, 2016 Nerdist article, page 46 of Spoilers thread) -- Dolph Lundgren will make his first appearance as Kovar in 506, and because of his strong performance during his first day on the job, MG said that they extended the actor’s involvement in the show past the originally planned three episodes. MG: “Dolph brings so much presence... He really holds the screen incredibly well. It’s an enormous amount of fun to see him and Stephen [Amell] in scenes together.” Also MG: “Kovar is very much a villain certainly in the Arrow vein, which is to say he’s pretty badass, he’s pretty evil, but he, of course, does not think of himself as such. He thinks of himself as doing the right thing, which, in that sense, makes him very similar to a lot of the villains that we’ve had in the past. What is interesting about Kovar is he has a mix of intelligence and physical presence that we haven’t necessarily seen. He’s physically bigger than a lot of our villains that we’ve had in the past.” (Oct. 28, 2016 Entertainment Weekly article, page 47 of Spoilers thread) -- Per her IMDB page, Carly Pope is in 503, 505, 506, 507 and 509. (CPope's IMDB link in tv echo post, page 1199 of Spoiler Discussion thread) -- On Aug. 31, 2016, Dolph Lundgren was in the Arrow production office. (ArrowProdOffice tweet, page 43 of Spoilers thread) -- On Sep. 2, 2016 (early morning), SA said that they just started shooting Episode 98. (SA facebook video, page 468 of Social Media thread) -- On Sep. 2, 2016, SA tweeted: "Sometimes before a big Friday on Arrow I fire myself up by watching the last ep of Sex & The City where Big tells Carrie she's the one." (SA tweet, page 43 of Spoilers thread) -- On Sep. 6, 2016, Terri Schwartz (IGN) tweeted pics from the Arrow set of the Star City Mayor's Office, the Arrowcave, and Oliver's new business cards. (Terri_Schwartz tweets, page 43 of Spoilers thread) -- On Sep. 7, 2016, Tyler Ritter tweeted: "When long legs go from being seductive to haunting. love creepy shadow puppeteering with liluparma" with pic of two long-legged shadows. (TylerRitter tweet & thetylerritter instagram post, page 1 of Season 5 Spoiler Archive thread) -- On Sep. 8, 2016, papp was at an Arrow shoot at 104 Ave & 142 St, Surrey and said that he saw SA, DR, WH, EBR, EK, MMcL and RG. He also reported: "I was able to watch them film the zip line stunt scene, which was one part of a chaotic sequence featuring many extras. There were two visible fires and the flea market was crowded with extras who were running around in panic. Stephen was in the Green Arrow costume but he didn't zip line all the way down of course. He simply jumped and acted out the landing part. I think it's safe to assume that his double did the actual zip lining, but I did not see his double in action. Echo and David's doubles were reeled high up on the zip line. The order of landing is as pictured above. The Green Arrow leads the way, followed by Mr. Terrific and then Spartan. It was definitely awesome to watch this stunt! As soon as they all hit the ground, they ran to their right. This is where a switch occurred. David and Echo replaced their stunt doubles, and then joined Stephen. They all ran towards to the deranged flea market. ... Another short scene featured Madison as Artemis. She was in the middle of the chaos in the flea market. From what I saw, I think she heard or saw one or two children in distress. She approached them and then appeared to guide them to safety." (Vanflarrowfan blog post, page 43 of Spoilers thread) -- On Sep. 8, 2016, papps posted b-t-s pics of Arrow shooting episode 506, which included shots of Oliver, Diggle, WIld Dog, Artemis, Ragman and possibly Mr. Terrific, and also pics of what looks like zip line stunt prep at warehouse and other exterior shots. (PUNKD_Images and VanFlarrowFan tweets, page 43 of Spoilers thread) -- On Sep. 9, 2016, fan tweeted: "we realized that the other hooded guy is Ragman! He was on the roof and in the formation on the ledge! :)." (heyolicity23 tweet, page 1 of Season 5 Spoiler Archive thread) -- On Sep. 9, 2016, fan tweeted: "Little tidbit, O literally leaves everyone on the 'roof' except Curtis and Diggle who came down with him. ONLY those 3 ran in to the chaos" and "Artemis DOES save a little boy and his mom(?) but that's literally all I saw her do when I was there." (heyolicity23 tweets, page 43 of Spoilers thread) -- On Sep. 9, 2016, fan tweeted: "He definitely looked to have more peripheral vision and it didn't go down as low kinda like ATOM level-ish" and "But it was definitely NOT the old mask." (heyolicity23 tweets, page 1 of Season 5 Spoiler Archive thread) -- On Sep. 9, 2016, fan tweeted: " I believe Willa and Emily filmed earlier inside then left. If they filmed outside it was after I left. :(." (heyolicity23 tweet, page 1 of Season 5 Spoiler Archive thread) -- On Sep. 10, 2016, SA tweeted "Filming" with pic of long-legged archer shadow in front of a warehouse. (SA tweet, page 1 of Season 5 Spoiler Archive thread) -- On Sep. 10, 2016, WH posted pic of herself wearing a hospital gown. Unclear whether this is for Arrow or real life. (WH instagram post, page 1133 of Spoiler Discussion thread) -- On Sep. 11, 2016, MMcL posted pic of herself with CL. (MadisonMcLaugh tweet, page 1 of Season 5 Spoiler Archive thread) -- On Sep. 13, 2016, SA posted b-t-s pic of himself on the Arrow loft set, wearing his GA suit and reading Sex and the City book, with comment: "Tuesday". (SA instagram pic, page 1133 of Spoiler Discussion thread) -- On Sep. 13, 2016, SA tweeted: "That's a wrap on episode 98. I can't actually believe we're about to hit 100. Super lucky." (SA tweet, page 43 of Spoilers thread) -- On Oct. 26, 2016, Brian Ford Sullivan tweeted: "Lots of great stuff coming next week in 505. I'll be back in two weeks for 506, one of my favorite episodes (very lucky to be a part of it)!" (BFS tweet, page 46 of Spoilers thread)

I currently have two speculative theories regarding a Oliver and Tina relationship... One: The show is going to do a variation of the GA Rebirth romance where GA has a few run-ins with a mysterious female vigilante before they actually meet (she's BC) and have instant attraction, then slowly become allies and then lovers. Two: Do you remember last year when the EPs were talking about Oliver having a flashback love interest, who turned out to be Taiana/Poppy, and then they apparently changed their minds? What if the EPs decided to transfer that love story to this season with Tina? Last season, the contrast would've been between a darker flashback Oliver and the lighter present day Oliver. But now S5 Oliver is no longer the lighter S4A Oliver, so possibly the contrast would now be between the darker S5 Oliver and an ultimately lighter Oliver at the end of S5 or in S6 maybe? I guess what I'm clumsily - and maybe too optimistically - trying to say is, what if Oliver's relationship with Tina will just show him how much better he is with Felicity? Or, if I'm being pessimistic, what if Oliver's relationship with Tina is intended to show us how much better he is with Tina? In either scenario, I think we're looking at another S2 where the Canary dominates the back half of the season and all other supporting characters fade to the background.

I've been watching live but may start recording soon. I think I've been hanging in because I've already invested so much time and energy into Arrow. I have several Word documents (hundreds of pages long) containing collections of spoilers, relevant news articles, topical EP/cast quotes, Olicity moments from all seasons, etc. If I stop now, my collections will be incomplete and my compulsive nature rebels at the thought. But who knows - I may have a breaking point.

Spoiler Room: Scoop on Quantico, The Flash, Elementary and more BY NATALIE ABRAMS • Posted November 4 2016 — 2:30 PM EDT http://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/04/spoiler-room-quantico-flash-elementary Neal McDonough Compares and Contrasts Arrow and Legends of Tomorrow Russ Burlingame- 10/27/2016 http://comicbook.com/2016/10/27/neal-mcdonoguh-compares-and-contrasts-arrow-and-legends-of-tomor/

Now I feel old - I still remember little Carl from S1 of TWD...

I saw this quote on a sign at my local bookstore over the weekend and wanted to share it with you (with one edit) as my thought for the day... “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men [and women] to do nothing.” - Edmund Burke

Assuming Tina is a love interest for someone (and odds are, she is, or why else use casting sides that focus on sexual tension), would height factor into whose love interest she turns out to be? Juliana Harkavy is 5'8." With heels, she could well top 6' - and I don't see her getting a superhero suit without heels. Rick Gonzalez is 5'8". Stephen Amell is 6'1".

I thought that the last LoT episode had the potential to be the best DC TV episode this season so far... but then they lost me with the zombies. Adding the zombie element just made no sense to me and detracted from the emotional resonance of the story. Just my opinion.

TV shows have been encouraging fan theories for decades, with the use of cliffhangers and clue-strewn seasons of mythology-driven shows. Remember "Who Shot JR?" Remember The X-Files and Lost? Producers/networks actively stoke the fires of fan buzz and speculation. So don't complain now if it sometimes backfires.

SA and RA did several facebook videos yesterday (talked mostly about Code 8 and signed a lot of postcards)... Code 8 signing is happening!! So many postcards... Code 8 signing with Robbie Amell. SA: "Jeff, did you see a short called Sidekick by a guy named Jeff Cassidy? ... Uh, Jeff Cassidy did a short with Josh Dallas, Tom Cavanagh and Emily Bett Rickards. And it's on youtube right now. Sidekick. Movie. Short. 2016. Look it up. It's really, really awesome. And I was incredibly, uh, jealous of their visual effects. It was incredible." Robbie Amell cheated. -- SA: "I am so excited about this season of Arrow. And, uh, I -" RA: "Me too. Steve just gave us some spoilers." SA: "Big time spoilers. John Wick-style stuff." RA: "And angry Arrow [unintelligible word]." SA: "Really, really angry. Um, I just read episode 512, and I was so fired up after I read it. It was really good. Really good." -- SA talked about when he guested on The Flash (to take down Reverse Flash) and he wanted his name and RA's name to appear in the credits at the same time. However, he was told they couldn't do that because SA was a special guest star but RA was a guest star. So for their names to appear on the same screen, RA had to be bumped up to special guest star. Then RA added that, for every episode after that, he was listed as a special guest star because, once he was bumped up, he couldn't be downgraded. Bottom line... there's a lot of Code 8 postcards... Almost done!!! -- On whether he would ever consider direct an episode of Arrow, SA: "People ask that question all the time and I used to say, 'no, for sure.' I - I still think 'no' because I think that it would be a little bit indulgent because I wouldn't really be available to prep and I wouldn't really be available to do post, but - (makes gesture with hands) ... No, I don't thinks so... I'm happy just acting on the show."

KC is currently filming a new movie called Grace... Her Cover Versions movie is currently in post-production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1556320/

Clip from Nov. 5 facebook video where SA talked about Sidekick...

Cute...

I never, ever thought I'd post a link to a Playboy article, but whatever (fyi, what I've quoted below is all the info, so you don't need to visit the site) - break out the fishnets! ... 15 Reasons to Follow 'The Walking Dead' Actress Juliana Harkavy on Instagram BY LISA BEEBE November 5, 2016 http://www.playboy.com/galleries/reasons-to-follow-actress-juliana-harkavy-on-instagram/slide-9?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Native&utm_content=bunnies

Turning to the Marvel Superhero Universe for a moment - I haven't seen the new Doctor Strange movie yet (though I've heard it's good), but I did come across this EW article on its post-credits scenes (WARNING: SPOILERS!)... Doctor Strange: What the post-credits scenes mean BY DARREN FRANICH Posted November 5 2016 — 11:28 AM EDT http://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/05/doctor-strange-what-post-credits-scenes-mean

Tina being the new BC and Oliver's new love interest is speculation - but it's reasonable speculation extrapolated from spoilers... NuCanary: Tina: (NOTE: 511 shoot dates are listed as November 2-14, 2016.) Yes, I know the casting sides are fake, but they could've been used to test the chemistry between the actors and it's possible there's a similarly-vibed scene in the actual script. As for speculation that Tina is Wild Dog's love interest instead, regardless of the actors' actual ages, the character of Wild Dog is coming across as younger than Oliver, while this new actress, Juliana Harkavy, looks more mature. Also, the spoilers just scream S2's Sara/Canary story - with the team tracking down a strange woman, who turns out to be a fighter.

Why?...

All The Reasons 'Arrow' Shouldn't Keep Olicity Apart Any Longer, Since It Makes Absolutely No Sense By CAITLYN CALLEGARI 3 days ago https://www.bustle.com/articles/192865-all-the-reasons-arrow-shouldnt-keep-olicity-apart-any-longer-since-it-makes-absolutely-no-sense

Actual, real criticism from this reviewer (gasp!)... ‘Arrow’ Review: “Human Target” Nov. 4, 2016 Nora Dominick http://emertainmentmonthly.com/index.php/arrow-review-human-target/