fantique

The first paragraph helps me consider the writers smarter then. Because that would make sense that this is the use of the character. Otherwise I would think them tone-deaf. I agree that out of the 2 parents the one more delusional and desperate to hold on to Jeremy is Katrina. Crane kind of already sounds like he is leaning towards Abbie's side so the only that provides a counter balance is Katrina, who did not actively bother me (heck she's more of an annoyance) until baby-moloch-gate. I also think that having them separate from Katrina for so long makes it awkward when she's included in Team Witness which I really wished they had avoided. Now her screentime will always actively taking focus away from others' like Jenny and Frank whereas she could have been part of a shared team screentime plus a token scene with Crane and there would be more time for Mr & Mrs BAMF. Oh well, spilt milk and all that. I really like your prediction for the end of the season and I am definitely leaning toward this type of outcome, with the Horsemen changing quite a few times before the Final battle. ETA: Is it weird that I like Katrina better in her scenes with Abbie (and anyone else after) than Crane? She seems less spineless somehow.

Hmm... good ish episode. Not great but I can't think what I would have done differently except not having Katrina go back. For the plot it works but for character development there is a whole lot of circling instead of moving forward. She becomes clear headed about not just sitting there and praying Jenry finds Jesus but then she decides to freaking go back which I know is motivated by a desire to turn him good. Now she is going to see baby Moloch and insist that they were mistaken and it's a child that can be purified of Moloch. Sigh... I also really don't appreciate them weakening her by rendering her useless in what's supposedly her forte and then have my favourite character prop her up. I am guessing that everytime that happens it's more about showing that Abbie has witch abilities but come on show, Abbie doesn't others weakened to show how awesome she is. But I did like that they were showing Ichabod and Hawley getting along while Abbie and Katrina start to get along as well (even though it's a little forced). Abbie this episode just solidified why she just is awesomeness personified. I just loved all her reactions and her confrontations. She did not try to hit below the belt or make it personal, it's just that while it's understandable that parents love their children, it's not ok for Crane to be hesitant while more victims are popping up because Jenry is allowed to roam free. She is right and she's standing her ground while not making it seem like it's a competition between Katrina and her. She felt left out but tried to give them space and after she deemed it enough, she was back to business. Nicole was just amazing this episode. I felt like I could read her thoughts. Also I think she looked a little less than 100% because that might have been during the time she was sick during shooting? Just positing. I am going to shock myself, but I liked Hawley this episode. After the bar scene he seemed to drop that annoying flirty "I am the kind of jerk women like" shtick. He seemed unsure of how Abbie sees him and it made him less of an avatar and more of a real person with depth. I don't like the lovesick puppy angle much but it works for me when it's an arrogant character because it makes me see them as less of a d-bag. He felt less slimy. I still feel grossed out by him and Abbie getting together just because I find it disturbing to get with someone who had sex with your sibling. It will always be gross to me. Though I guess if they don't bring it up to much and don't create "drama" between the sisters then I can maybe chalk it up to one of those TV things they do. Most likely it will colour every scene with weirdness for me though. Crane was really funny this episode when trying to protect his fellow witness' virtue. It was nice to see a protective side of him wrt Abbie. It off balanced his interference during the Abbie/Katrina confrontation, one that was needed. I also like that he is finally stopping to shoot laser-hate eyes in Hawley's direction in every scene because it gets too close to pissing contest territory for my tastes. He is also in need of a good male buddy. I appreciate that he wasn't all huffing and puffing about Katrina leaving and while misplaced I like that he is coming to realise that his wife was in this fight even before he was and does not need his "protection". I am having a problem because I feel like Crane is more fun when being a know-it-all with zingers and the whole gooey eyed in love thing is just making him less fun to me. He shines more when offset by modern characters. BOO show for no Jenny nor Frank. They are too interesting to push to the side although the next episode seems like there will be plenty of Mills sisters goodness in the next episode. But Frank...

Kiddie Diggle!

These 2 caps just made me LOL All laughs and jokes aside, something just hit me you guys. In light of finding out that her previous love might as well have committed suicide for being too committed to his cause, imagine the horror of Oliver choosing to do the same in a more passive and drawn out manner. She already lived through that once and she refused to go through that again and that's good storytelling on the writers' part. That's on point for me. PS: I actually think that, while it makes me laugh when people call him a stalker, Ray isn't that bad (once I got over the 50 shades business move). I just think he is that "business all day everyday" guy who just does not care for anything but results. Mixed with a scientifically curious mind and inventor status it's pretty likely that he would be that type of boundary pushing freight train. He just wants to get things done and niceties and other social concepts get in the way of getting to work.

1. That line KILLED me with laughter. It was amazing. 2. I have an irrational desire to see Deadshot as a manny. That's a good point! I didn't even think about that. That would make sense. I just freaking loved this episode. I just did. Favourite episode so far this season. I was just smiling the entire episode and re-watched it twice. I now want to dare anyone to say that Felicity's presence brings down the action. Go on Felicity nay sayers, I.Dare.You!

Huh? I didn't know Olicity fans loved it. I didn't like it because it felt like they were hinting at a "why not me?" vibe which didn't feel like would be Felicity's thought process. I thought that she just was just genuinely wondering why the hell of all the people he decided to sleep with Isabel freaking Rochev. Like really? The woman who almost stole your company from under your nose and is a bitch to your friend? It would have been bad for it to have a "why not me" vibe because I doubt Felicity's ambition is to be Oliver's one night stand. I thought it was more about Oliver establishing he is not relationship ready at the time more than it was about Felicity's feeling for him though. This has already been discussed at length so I'm not going to go on. I also think the Moira moment was more to affirm the fact that she had feelings. Because for a while, it almost felt like she just liked him as a friend whom she finds insanely attractive so it was for the audience to know: yes, she really does like him and it's not just an infatuation or her thinking he has a hot bod.

Yeah... that was one of the reasons I thought a shorter season could potentially be good because the busier show-runners would then be able to fit it in their schedule to be more involved. They mentioned the Hellfire Club has made previous attempt and that's why they had that dead woman on the table that had the same markings as Katrina. I think that they tried on regular humans and then came to the conclusion that they needed a supernatural to carry Moloch. Or it might be that she had been chosen previously as hinted by a previous episode with Moloch calling her a vessel and a Hellfire Shard. So maybe there is something we haven't figured out yet about Katrina that made her a valid candidate. I actually think that maybe Moloch didn't want her to be the carrier because he still has use for her but Henry likes to screw with his parents.

I've been having a problem with people calling Felicity's feeling for Oliver a crush (and I hope I didn't use it) or defining her behaviour as pining because 1) She's a grown woman and it just seems silly to have a crush after middle school/highschoo. Also, a crush to me means shallow feelings of physical attraction that are more based on fantasies then the person's actual attribute and personality. 2) Pining also doesn't fit for me because pining goes with self-pity and wallowing in my mind. I also think she just never seriously considered that he would be into her so it wasn't like she was hanging on to his every word waiting for a sign. Her feelings grew because she admired and believed in him and didn't let his worse qualities deter her from appreciating him as a person. I love that kind of patient and understanding love. I know tortured and misguided characters make for good TV but it only works for me when there are well adjusted characters to offset them. I do appreciate the fact that I understand both their positions in making the decisions they made. It's frustrating because I am watching characters I like suffering especially when something can be done but I do believe that it will be beneficial and good growth by the end of the season. It already feels like Oliver is faster at realising what he wants so there's hope.

Agreed with most of your post but actually I don't think Kurtzman and Orci are the problem seeing as they haven't written any episode this season and from interviews and appearances I am guessing they are no longer hands on with the project. Thank you for the Sailor Moon reference. This is weird. I want to use an expression another poster used for another thread. They said "I know it's possible to be overwhelmed. I know it's possible to be underwhelmed. Is it possible to just be 'whelmed'? " That's how I feel. I just thought "Well, that happened." I usually rush to see the new episode and I knew this week's episode wasn't going to focus on a character I love so I wasn't eager, but I really didn't expect to be aggravated. I don't like Katrina (ugh... why are you ruining witches for me show?) but her being there had never detracted from the more enjoyable bits of the show for me, I could ignore her. This episode was just blah. It's sad because there was a lot of production and directing efforts to make this episode epic and awesome looking. I don't get why the writers want to introduce serious romance in a cooky, crazy and whimsical show. I don't need to see the Cranes' epic love, just tell me he values his family strongly and have Crane talk about his family being the last remnant of his old life. I don't know why they are trying to sell me their love story because I don't care either way. I just want to see the whole team fighting monsters and hanging out in the Team Witness hideouts. WRT what's wrong with the show, they definitely went off the rails. I think that the previous season had the perfect balance of the show not taking itself too seriously while keeping the characters earnest. This year they are trying to be "deep" and have grand storytelling and it's not working because the premise is a bit silly. I also agree that Ichabod looks better when separated from his contemporaries, because it creates a nice contrast to play with. When all the time travellers are here, it's just a bunch of people speaking oddly in weird attire. They also should have been smarter with the use of Jenry. They should have limited his interactions with Team Witness because the altercation between him and Ichabod was actually a very good acting scene but it left less impact because they saw each other recently with Jenry sneering at Ichabod. I also don't know why they want the redemption story. I would have been more impressed if they showed Ichabod and Katrina being heartbroken by fighting their son but doing it because they have no choice. I also think they had originally had Abbie staying in Purgatory longer but were told to have the witness together sooner. While that would decrease the Abbie/Ichabod interactions, Jenny would have been more around because they would be searching for a way to get her back and Katrina could be a bad spy on Headless-with-a-head. It would have forced them to deal with Abbie's side of the story more as being in that dollhouse was sure to bring up a lot about her past and have a few interaction between Abbie and Ichabod/Jenny through the com system Katrina used in Purgatory and not showing her a lot would have had them cyber assaulted. I just feel like they thought they had the whole "fun show" thing down and the audience was attached enough to the viewers and decided to be more "intense". In trying to fix what didn't go as planned last season, they made it worse. But that's just because their conception of Katrina was everything and nothing at once. She just had too many attributes. They should have just had her join the team, be a useful witch. I think because everyone is unconvinced by the Cranes' love, they feel the need to try and sell it. I think if we all bought into their relationship, they would had her be evil. I also think that Kurtzman and Orci are big on the mythology aspect of genre shows and with their absence the overarching mythology seems to be put on the back burner. Len Wiseman is really into the creature of the week because of the semi-horror aspect so that's why they are still here but tie in less well with the Apocalypse theme than last year. This year it's just "Oh Jenry is up to no good and made it happen" and it's not even on Moloch's orders! It's just him torturing his parents. Less compelling than seeing the ground work for this Epic Battle to come. Random info: From the production numbers for the episodes, it seems the Pied Piper episode was meant to be before the Root of All Evil episode. I think that would have been better with the pacing and also less of a gap between Irving appearances.

That is exactly what prompted my initial wonderings! It seems a weird choice to have a character that's not the titular character have such a huge chunk of the storyline on a permanent basis. It would have pretty much been as much of her show as Oliver's because it would have been a lot of screen time dedicated to her that automatically didn't include Oliver. Logically to have an origin story for LL becoming BC, it would have taken basically the same amount or more that is spent on the flashbacks because they are the origin of Oliver becoming the Hood. On top of that there would be all the parts where she interacts with all the other characters and Oliver.

@HalcyonDays I absolutely love your breakdown of how all the relationships on the show are inevitably linked to the witnesses. While it sometimes feels ridiculous that everything always circles back to them, it makes sense when considering the type of war they are fighting. The flashbacks for both of them reveal that there has been a lot of work behind the scenes. It makes sense for example that both Moloch and the people fighting him would try to have their witnesses surrounded by influences that would shift the balance. I am just terrified to see how the other 2 Horsemen relate to Abbie. Or what could be interesting is that the Horsemen are changed around as the show goes on and all those people who had an experience shaping the witnesses are brought into it. It's a typical sci-fi/fantasy villain strategy, kick where it hurts the most. Try to undermine the heroes and let them self-destruct with doubt, fear and feelings of abandonment. WRT the witnesses' relationship with each other, I am just protective of its awesomeness. I just think it's special and pure. Not pure in the sense that it's perfect and neither wrongs the other ever (to me that's unrealistic). I think that the purity comes from the open exchange. If/when they go the romantic route, I want to have been given time to fall in love with their love just like I fell in love with their friendship. I just like how strong their bond as comrades in arms is because the stakes are too high to waste time bullshitting and lying to each other. That's refreshing. In another show, they would have had Crane sneak away to talk to/free Katrina. I just think that right now, they are closer to each other than anyone else they know and I am just wondering what more could romance bring that isn't already there.

I get that the Pilot was very Nolan heavy but I don't understand how that would be the definition they really cared about because then they could have just not have her be the canary. She could have been whoever. Rachel Dawes was not comic book canon right? So if they really wanted the Rachel Dawes of Arrow they could have just had her be the person who Oliver loved the most from before the island without making that character BC. Just like Lana Lang (comic book Lana Lang, not Smallville Lana Lang) was not going to be Clark Kent's final destination but she was definitely a memorable stop along the way. I already stated that it was a weird theory so I don't even necessarily think I'm right. I just was wondering about the need/relevance to have the BC origin story at all in the conception of Arrow. Because even though it didn't work out the way they wanted, they obviously had decided to have BC in the show. Otherwise the Leading Lady and LI would not have the name Dinah "Laurel" Lance. They could have had her later in the show once it was more establish towards the end of its run. And if they had BC-to be Laurel, then that means they obviously wanted to write an origin story for becoming BC. Now the idea that it was originally a separate show is cooky but that was more me making up alternatives to make sense of this weird set up

And I hope they do. From what I heard during NYCC with the appearance of Mama Mills (there is even an episode called Mama), the focus will shift back to Abbie. Also one way or another I think tonight's episode will (hopefully) come to a sort of conclusion of the Crane family drama. I think they also teased at SDCC that Abbie has magical ancestry. Oh, what they could do with that :)! Also I love witches, they are my favourite supernaturals. I have faith because they already sprinkled hints along the way that show they are building her story. Crane's story is almost straightforward because there are less options than with Abbie. I think they have to be more careful with hers and it takes more time to lay the tracks. Also I think the are aware that if they mess it up they will be crucified because anyone that is a Sleepy Hollow fan loves Abbie. For example when referencing that scene with Jenny asking about Crane mattering to Abbie, we learnt that she and Jenny were outsiders and formed their own little team. She always felt out of place with others but she also values familial bonds more than romantic ones. I took her not even addressing the potential romantic nature of the question to mean that's not how she sees him (yet at least). Weirdly enough, I see a lot of people saying they see Abbie already having feelings for Crane which is strange to me. I kind of chalk it up as people always going the "She's a hot female lead with a handsome male lead who she shares a destiny with, so of course she has heart eyes" route. In my head canon, based on all of 19 episodes lol, if/when there is canon Ichabbie, Crane would definitely be the first to realise his feelings. Abbie put him in the safe "family" box so I think it would take much longer than him to see their relationship in a romantic light. Maybe because I love her so much any tidbit of info in the script helps me build who she is in my mind. Whereas with Ichabod it's more like "haha, that's funny he is ranting again". It was really only after Sin Eater that I got more of a sense of who he was wrt his ideologies and later his sense of family. I also think his attachment to family is also linked to still not feeling like he is home. Having his family back would be one more link to the past. Aside from his grumpy old man "it was better way back in the good old days", I only heard him really expand on his feelings of displacement in the Pilot and in Sin Eater at the end of the baseball scene.

I have a bit of a weird theory... With the amount of attachment the EPs/writers seem to have for LL/BC, it's obvious that the origins of BC was something they really wanted to tell. Otherwise they would have had a fully realised version of BC from the pilot. What if the show they originally wanted to make was Black Canary? I think they asked KC first not just because she was more known than SA but also maybe because they really wanted to make sure the project came to fruition by getting a CW favourite. Maybe they pitched a full on Black Canary show and it didn't go through for whatever reasons and then they thought of Green Arrow (who is linked to BC). A GA show that has a big focus on BC is theoretically interesting. The problem is that since they made it GA, there is this weird disconnect with what seems to be at the centre of the show. Otherwise why the obsession with the origin stories with anyone other than GA? It seems like a weird focus to have on a show that is about GA. Introducing and talking about the future characters' evolution in offscreen land makes sense, but the dedication and time put into another superhero that is canonically independent is a bit strange. Think about it. Putting aside our reservations for the Laurel character, on paper, she is telegraphed as more of a hero than Oliver is. In the Pilot: "Dinah Laurel Lance, always trying to save the world" while Oliver is the Hood. Neither himself nor the city he lives in sees him as a hero and the viewer is meant to be wondering when and how does he become a hero, meaning he is far from one yet. Even though she is not donning her Superhero costume yet, LL is meant to be the hero that shows Oliver how to be one. Now of course that was derailed by many things but the intention was definitely there. I think DC/WB/CW was probably tentative about a BC focused show and if you look at it, with all the superhero shows about to pop up, only one of them is about a Heroine (Supergirl in 2015, which BTW is way more mainstream than GA and Constantine since as a non comic book reader I still know of her and only knew about the Flash from vague pop culture references and TBBT's Sheldon) and that waited after having 4 shows were put on air. The rest are about Heroes or ensemble casts. Now Arrow struck gold with the idea of rewinding the clock and showing not just the evolution of the main hero but of all the other characters linked to them in their canon universe so that's why the other DC shows are following suit. It's more fun to play with and basically write fanfiction crossovers of all those heroes and villains from the different comics. it's just too bad for Arrow that the intended BC did not resonate as much with the audience.

Funny tidbit about the pronunciation of the word lieutenant (which is originally french BTW), the word is still written lieutenant even though the British pronounce it "leftenant". What's interesting though is like other languages, in English sometimes contractions and deformations happen. Or they appropriate an older version of word. If someone says "leftenant" very quickly it sounds like "le-tenant" and becomes closer to lieutenant which is probably why everyone is hearing him say "lieutenant" as your ears are expecting that sound. Or he's slipped but that's unlikely since he pointed it out that he would say "leftenant".

I guess I can understand that you're saying better to have a bad LI than none at all. I am the opposite so maybe they won't have time to get to the healthy dating part of her evolution but my point was that what comes before is more important to me. Because if she gets through her evolution and is alive, then I can imagine her happy in off-screen land. I want the show ending with me being certain that whoever she ends up with, whether I see it or not, I am thinking "Wow Abbie, you've come a long way and all you went through was worth it" and I can imagine her happy life. I want to feel the way I felt when closing the final HP book. The Epilogue was cheesy but I understood JKR really wanted to say it's over. I wanted to see more but at least I know that it was all worth it and the main characters are all in a better place than I found them. I was sad it was over but thankful for the journey. I just think that if what you care about most -emotionally speaking- is Abbie getting with someone then things like 2.03 having huge significance for both Abbie and Jenny will not register to you as "fair treatment" of the character and we just have to agree to disagree. I guess we are just not interested in the same things WRT characters and entertainment which is cool. I just wanted to clarify my previous answer. PS: Also I get people don't want to see her playing second fiddle but Abbie has made it very clear that while she respects Crane's boundaries, she will not hesitate to dispose of Jenry if that's the only option. She is very clear about helping Katrina because it helps Team Witness so she is obviously not there for the babysitting. The next episode will be all about her wanting to nuke Jenry. In light of that, without going all meta, it's hard for me to fear she is just becoming "the Cranes' assistant". Edited by fantique, Yest. 10:58 pm.

To me, Abbie does not fit into the "I don't need a man" stereotype because she lets herself depend on Corbin, Andy and Crane. Those types usually don't let any man help them and are offended when offered help. Abbie has no problem taking charge but she also doesn't mind being helped by those who can. I don't see how not showing she wants to bang someone (pardon my french) means that she is sacrificing her self. Otherwise that means that anything she wants for herself (for example knowing more about her family) doesn't count because she is not trying to date or have sex with someone and I don't understand how why that would be the only definition of self-fulfilment or happiness. She is in battle mode. She is trying to be the cool-headed, big picture person because one of the Witnesses has to be and she knows Crane can't keep his head in the game right now. Like when at the beginning she was in denial about the whole Witness thing with one foot in and one foot out, Crane was the one telling her she needed to face her fears. He helped her bridge the gap between her and Jenny just like she is helping him face the problems with Katrina instead of carrying on like it's all good. The timeline is not all clear in my head but I think the events of season 1 have gone on for a relatively short period of time, it makes sense that in the wake of all this we don't see her thinking about going on dates. The thing about the Cranes (also would like to add there are literally 2 or 3 scenes max that were full on couple-y for those 2 in the whole series so far) and Jenny/Hawley is that they are both pre-show established history which takes no more more than a few lines to explain. Just like Morales was explained in a few lines and she did show signs of wanting to reach out before he got scared away by Andy. Abbie shows sign of having pretty big walls and knowing the reason why is the first step, then I want to see her open up to someone in the vulnerable way an equal relationship can bring. So far we have seen people more invested in her than she was in them and I think it's because she doesn't let herself go there but also because her priorities are more about who she is. She now wants to know more about her family and how she fits into this crazy world she just became a part of. She finally has her sister back and wants to make sure that relationship is strong. Those aspects are so much more interesting to me and make me feel like she is a real person. It fleshes out who Abbie is from a writing stand point. She already feels real thanks to NB's am-ah-zing portrayal but the script doesn't have al those layers I want yet. Before I think about who she would be good with, I want to see her be good with all her issues resolved by herself. Getting help along the way is fine but I am tired of that "you bring out the light in me" bullshit. Being inspired by another person? Yes. Dependent on said person to be a well adjusted person? Hell.NO! She is a strong person with enough belief in herself to create a life she wants even when not given the best circumstances regarding her parents. Kudos to her, but it's obvious that she didn't deal with all the emotional hang ups that history gave her. Jenny is almost "healthier" in that way because she accepted that crappy things happened and impacted her. Abbie recognises they happened but is acting like they don't affect her. I think that's what was hinted at in 2.03, that she tries to keep it together by pretending their mother's actions didn't get to her. She doesn't want to admit that she's angry and has resentment towards their mother. Jenny on the other hand embraces her anger a little too much. Basically I am so much more interested in her coping mechanisms and seeing her let go of the security blanket of being "above it". There are so many facets that can be covered successfully just around Abbie herself that I don't need to see her with someone right now. Especially someone with shifty morals and wandering eyes. Also is it abnormal for an adult woman (even in regular circumstances) to be single for like 6 months without hooking up? If so I definitely wasn't aware that was the case. I am hopeless at relationships. A guy basically has to make a neon sign that he likes me before I get it so maybe I am just not equipped to talk about this, I don't know... @Shanndee I am right there with you. I actually think some people hearing the noise during the Hiatus might have been turned off because they thought the show would become heavy and take its premise seriously with convoluted romantic storylines. It has some but definitely not as many as I feared. I am ok with how Hawley has been so far as in he is not even a grain of sand on Abbie's radar. I also really like catty Ichabod so that's fun. I just want more Jenny and while that's probably unfair, his role is so similar in their quests that I feel he is her substitute.

Moved to the Abbie thread.

Moved to the Abbie thread.

Oh I pretty much have an embarrassingly huge girl crush on Abbie and Nicole, so I have noticed her fab everything. I am super envious of Nicole's body. I just never really thought her clothing as sexy or even sexy-adjacent and I see it more as utilitarian, which for me is a good thing for the character. She's hot and super cool, she doesn't need to try to be noticed. That's more what I was referring to. I don't think she is dressed in a way that is meant to entice, she just happens to look banging in the most basic clothes (I love the jackets she wears). @kimberalla, like Sepia I am unaware of this, do you have links to interviews that mention/point to this? Because I am really curious about that and if he's the headwriter, and therefore has a lot of influence, this might colour my expectations and make me sad for the prospective future seasons :(. For now I have faith that they are just doing the divide with one half of the season Ichabod-centric and the other half Abbie-centric. I think they picked it up from where season 1 ended so it would have made less sense to forget about the Cranes until December... that would have been awkward and then they would have felt like they were intruding (or even more intruding, for the people who are not feeling their SL -which is understandable, their keeping Katrina away from the gang was creatively a constraint IMO and she needs to be more active-), big time.

Have not been keeping up with news lately so IDK if anyone already posted about this but just saw a tweet that Michelle Trachtenberg will be in Sleepy Hollow. https://twitter.com/RealMichelleT/status/527148454435643392 Also apparently Ichabod will be voting...

ITA and I actually think that if they must/really want sprinkle him in every episode, then those interactions should only be with Moloch, Irving and us seeing him scheming. That way there is a buildup for when the Cranes see their son. Now it has gotten repetitive and there is no emotional build up. I love JN's portrayal of a childlike Jenry just because I do think that a villain that doesn't see themselves as villainous is way more dangerous. He is careless about the stakes, casualties and consequences of his actions. Also (from Team Witness' point of view) it makes him unpredictable because their strategy needs to be adjusted when fighting Henry Parrish vs fighting Jeremy Crane. Can you say which writer(s) you think like Katrina? Because I tried to see a pattern but it's a bit nebulous with only 6 episodes to go on and there have been few repeat writers except for those who are also showrunners. I see episodes 2 (Mark Goffman & Albert Kim), 3 (Melissa Blake & Donald Todd) and 5 (M. Raven Metzner) as being Katrina heavy-ish. I do know the writing team has changed from last season and it seems Kurtzman & Orci are not as hands on this season. It was actually one of the reasons why I thought keeping it at 13 episodes could have been a good idea just so that those busy people can fit it into their schedule. Also tighter story telling. I understand your frustration and enjoy the show for these reasons as well. The thing is though, I saw a lot of comments even here on PTV that people wanted these 2 bolded points to be addressed the latter more so than the former. I saw a lot of people saying that they want Abbie to have an LI and equating her not having one as the writers painting her to be undesirable... Which is ridiculous to me but I know people, sometimes vocally, make it known they want those SL and they production follows suit. I like my sci-fi/fantasy because it used to not focus on romance that much. Just a touch to have some real-world components. The fantasy part, crazy part of it is really fun but now people can't seem to watch a show and just enjoy it. Everything has to make sense and be on screen or it doesn't register as being part of the show's story. The problem is SH is a cooky show that doesn't make that much sense but is super fun and relies on the characters selling the story to us. For example when Katrina didn't magic while in the house, people were like "I know it's because of a forcefield or something but I want the show to say that's why she hasn't done her spells". If everyone knows that's the reason then is it really necessary to say it? I'm confused... Doesn't Abbie basically wear skinny jeans, t-shirt/sweater and leather jacket? How is that "dressed to make him look"? I love this show because I think there needs to be more shows that are like Supernatural on the air. Cooky premise and reliance on the main peeps to keep me interested because I genuinely like them and feel like I want to hang out with them. The mythology is fun to think about but I don't think it needs to be taken seriously.

@Analyse and Critique, you posted this in the Laurel thread and I hadn't heard about this before. Can you expand?

Promo for 3x05... don't know how to put videos in here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7gqJ6wE_ydM It actually looks pretty cool

Playing the devil's advocate here, just for laughsies. Didn't Oliver actually say in the episode that Malcolm Merlyn is under his protection (pffftt) as long he is on Starling City? That's what I heard when watching the show, he was basically trying to kick the league out of his turf. But maybe I just assumed that's what he meant put more thought into it than the writers did.