GodsBeloved

Yes!!! Michonne was with the real deal LOL

Its not that I don't like Beth. I just don't think she is as wonderful as most seem to think she is. I was really surprised that she went to that adoption meeting only to make her disdain for Randall's idea of adopting known. Last season she let Rebecca know how they have no secrets yet once again Randall doesn't something without consulting her and she apparently didn't make it clear to him that she wasn't all that jazzed about adopting.

LOL I called Shane being the brother almost from that start but not who the voice was.

I found ER on POP so I'm rewatching too. I HATE Kerry. I was indifferent to Cleo but man MM can not act. I did like that she and Peter had a pretty solid relationship, maybe the most stable on the show and if I'm not mistaken when Peter came back in the finale, he and Cleo were still together. I liked Abby but rewatching has been fed up with how she was when her family showed up. I get that she grew up with these issues with her mom then to find out Eric was bipolar but she was making it all about her, if not with Maggie then definitely when it came out that Eric was sick. She seemed more pissed that Eric was willing to go with Maggie and didn't want to go with her than she was about Eric. As Maggie said, Eric had to accept his situation and no one could force Eric into anything. Abby should have known that given all she'd been through with Maggie.

When I rewatch particular episodes/scenes, sometimes I laugh and think how right Billy was about Flint.

Really late but I assumed Billy told Rodgers that Madi mattered to Silver and that's why they could use her to bargain for the cache

Ben is August's son.

We even have Jack, in his telling of LJS's story, saying those who stood to benefit most from it were the most eager to leave it all behind.

I agree. Silver said he wanted a life with Madi, not war with England. He said he didn't care about a legacy in that he didn't care how history painted them. I don't think all he sacrificed mattered to him anymore, if it ever did. I think Billy's words shook Silver ... if anyone is at risk of being consumed by his need for this war, it's her ... and that was when he decided to devise an exit plan and Max dropping that knowledge about plantations for "troubled" relatives gave Silver something to work with.

I agree. Silver didn't seem to be after the pirate's life. I am not sure Flint necessarily meant that a pirate's life was what would fulfill Silver instead of a life of domesticity. He said something about leaving the treasure in the ground when he switched tactics from Silver losing Madi to Silver being discontent. Maybe Flint thought the idea of never getting his hands on the treasure would make Silver change his mind about continuing a fruitless war. I laugh though at the idea of Flint implying that Silver wouldn't be content with a life of domesticity given his conversation with Charles Vane in 3-8. Vane could understand a woman's desire for domesticity but not a man's. Flint responds with I can't understand how you can not understand. You have no instinct toward earning for yourself a life more comfortable. That is one of the unintentional funny moments in BS for me and even more so now. ?

I heard that interview too. He talked about really loving Zethu Dlomo and Moshidi Motshegwa and how what they thought would be 1 role ended up being 2, Madi and the Maroon Queen.

Not according to Luke Arnold. In a post series interview, he said they didn't find out the show was ending until 1/2 way in.

I agree @Enero about the Maroon story. How I wish there was more about them instead of the long speeches by Flint and Silver. I too had high hopes for Julius and wanted to see a debate between him and Madi. I loved it when he pointed out the lunacy in believing Flint's bullshit but alas all that got lost and Silver is made out to be the bad guy. I also hated the way Madi was handled in the last few episodes. She was sidelined and then when we finally see her again in full light, she's flashing the teeth and some think that was all about Flint. She was smiling because of him, not because the pirates had overtaken Rodgers' ship. I especially hated the voice over by Jack talking about Flint's allies would find a way to continue the war had he died and the camera spans to Madi. What pissed me off is it left the impression that Madi wouldn't find a way to continue the war to honor those voices she heard, her people, her trusted bodyguard Kofi, her mother, her father but had the story been Flint had died then Madi would have found a way to continue the war to honor him. That is beyond gross. But anywho, I agree with Luke Arnold. Flint and crew were in the way of the Maroon story. I will say I also think part of the problem was they found out 1/2 way into filming season 4 that the show was being cancelled. Maybe if they got 1 more season, the Maroon story would have gotten more focus.

Who is Toby Smith?

I agree. I also made the very same point about Madi. Someone called her a suicide bomber and I told my friend that no, she wasn't because she talked Billy out of killing her even thought that would have made her a martyr and united Silver and Flint again.

I think Flint was projecting onto Silver when he told Silver that a life with Madi would not be enough for him. Flint is so far gone, all he can see satisfying him is his rage and desire to see the world burn and he wants that to be true for Silver too. But Silver isn't so deep in the darkness that he can't see a life in the light.

I think this goes back to Silver being the one pirate the Maroons, specifically Queen Mother and Madi trusted. Plus Queen Mother knows Silver loves Madi and she saw his devotion to her when he wanted to trade the cache for her life. Silver was accepted by the leadership so I think overall, he was accepted by the community, became a part of the community. And Madi, yes she was angry, very angry with Silver but she loved him. The fact that she didn't have him thrown off the island shows, to me at least, that when all was said and done, she did want to work things out with him. She did want that chance to walk out to the shore and forgive him.

Waiting patiently ...

I agree that Madi is for the freedom of her people and not for Flint's cause though I can see @raven point about Madi seeming to want retribution for slavery. Flint keeps saying Madi is for this war and in context I can see why some would think Madi agrees wholeheartedly with Flint, that she is for his cause, the pirates' cause. I loathe that Flint continues to invoke Madi's name in order to get Silver in line because again the implication is Madi agrees with Flint completely. I don't agree with that. Madi's goal is all about her people while Flint's is about destroying England. If sacrificing Madi and her people got Flint what he wanted, Madi and her people are screwed. Madi may be thinking she can change the world for her people all at once but hopefully Ruth and Julius' wisdom will come into play. Save who you can and change the world bit by bit.

Yes to all of this. I also think its important to remember that Madi refused this offer even when it was only about her people. She refused it in the face of Rodgers threat to sell the Maroons off. I'm not so sure its fair to say she chose her cause over Silver but that Silver being added to the pot didn't sway her enough. Also, if refusing the offer now is her choosing her cause over Silver, what do we call her initial refusal? Was she choosing her cause over her people?

This episode was anti climatic because I was expecting a backstory and with the way Luke Arnold hyped it ... if I rewatch the series maybe I will appreciate this episode but right now I'm disappointed.

What I respect about Silver is he isn't trying to hide this fact. He isn't bullshitting anyone. He said what he meant and he meant what he said. Madi is more important to him than Flint and his war. He was very clear about that and he wasn't trying to hoodwink Flint or anyone in the crew. His cards were on the table for everyone to see. For me, a huge difference is we never saw Silver agree to leave the cache buried. What we do know is Silver gave Flint's plan a chance, he just didn't follow him blindly as he's done before. This time he had his own plan B and chose not to share it with Flint. And now we have Flint saying Madi is as vital to this as is the cache, something Silver said when they found out she was alive. We have Flint saying Silver and Madi are the ones who can hold the new world together. We have Flint agreeing to get behind behind Silver's plan. Then we see Flint needs a new partner because Silver isn't stable. So was Flint blowing smoke up Silver's behind all along? And Dooley, prayer circle around him ? If only Flint said what he meant and meant what he said ... but I'm not sure why Silver is surprised at any of this.

I agee with that. I saw them too. But I have my theory about that but if not I will still find it hard to believe Silver is in on this plan for the reasons I stated and @Enero made some good points too. Plus one of the creators said this episode was the beginning of the end of their partnership and friendship.

If this is all in the plan, why would Silver allow his man to be murdered by Flint (well Hands actually ended the guy). There was no need for that man to die if Flint's move was part of a plan concocted by them. Why have this elaborate scene with Flint and Dooley with Flint undermining Silver? All that needed to be done was to tell Dooley they were moving the cache and needed his help. Silver's facial expression when he watched Flint dragging the cache on show was not one of the plan is going perfectly. There was no reason for his expression to say what I thought was surprise and hurt. It's all in the plan so why not give us a small smile? I know this show does its twists but they need to make sense if you go back and watch the scenes again.

Yes the treasure is on board. Kofi is below guarding it.