somewhereother

It is not my preference, but maybe Ray pulls a Casablanca?

He is just distracting people from complaining about the show in legitimate places. People should be flooding CW + DC. I couldn't imagine any one at DC or CW who watches the show could not see the problems that are so glaringly apparent. And DC should be even more concerned they have various legacies (BC, Arrow + Batman) that are being compromised.

So, probably stretching, but is Dig talking to his brother? Does that mean there is a connection b/w Argus & the Hive storyline and Oliver knows/was in on it? Looks like he is doing a bump & plant.

Hmm, Does anyone know if the photo with Diggle & Oliver in hoodie is in the flashbacks or present? Diggle has no need for the full getup now he has no job and Oliver looks pretty shaggy.

What's strange about it though it has gotten much bigger, the scope for story seems to be reduced. There is no larger context beyond a bunch of masks hanging out together. Roy has no external storylines, Laurel could (DA's office & conflict of interest) but doesn't, Oliver is just the Arrow, Diggle doesn't have a job, Felicity is either Atom, Flash or Arrow, now Thea is just part of LOA storyline. I don't know where they can go from here because any narrative connections for interesting conflicts and interactions with non-mask have been removed. In season One and Two we had Moria & Walter, Laurels friend (for a while), tommy, Blood etc. I also had much more of a sense of the city and its institutions, people etc, so I cared about 'saving' it. Now the city gets damseled every week and I couldn't care less because I don't know anyone who lives in it who is not in the lair.

Oh and forgot to mention, to add to the roster of proppers, the whole starling City police precinct think laurel is awesome. Maybe we'll see some 'Canary for mayor' graffiti in the glades soon. Or Quentin will describe her lying fondly as Emmy worthy.

well, that was not entirely unexpected but still awful. I really wish the whole Laurel transformation Arc had been framed in in other way then what it has. It is always in relation to Sara. It is not Sara as motivation, but as competition. The light line is the worst, because to define Laurel as a hero the only way they choose to do so was to make a comparison to Sara and in the process deny Sara's journey but at the same time try to assimilate her best characteristics (saving women, the city). I'm expected to swallow that Laurel is a Not-Sara one who is 'better' more moral, more right, more just. It really is version 2.0, Sara without the compromised ideals. Except this doesn't actually wash with Laurel as we know her and as they keep reminding us (liar, addict, selfish, jealous). They are trying to do the ultimate switcharoo - remove all of Laurels bad character traits (by indicating that it is cruel and wrong to think that about her - by oliver and vertigo sara as proxy). Then use Felicity to tell us that she is better. Good Job, now I don't like any of these characters. For me it always seemed more heroic to overcome darkness rather than be gifted with the choice of being light. Isn't that exactly Oliver's journey? The whole thing contradicts everything the show has set up. ughghghhg.

okay, just caught up. I loved Maseo, Tatsu and Oliver, I am quite invested in them now. Yay for Thea beginning to have some tiny amount of agency. Wow in the video game version of arrow I would always choose to play the character of Laurel. Watching the episode, it is just like a ticker tape of unlocked achievements and skills. *Laurel has gained the skill 'stiletto jab' *Laurel has unlocked 'Felicity's trust' *Laurel has reached level 2 in 'ball kneeing' *Special achievement awarded 'Helicopter Hang' *Laurel has earned 'Diggle's respect' (feel free to add) I have officially hit the bottom level of suspending my disbelief with Laurel. And this is coming from someone who has never been this bothered by any other character before (not Dawn or Riley in Buffy, not Duncan in Veronica Mars). She has broken me. Meanwhile, I cannot believe those that encouraged Oliver and Sara to find their humanity are now complicit in lying to Quentin and encouraging Laurel and Ray. I mean in this episode alone Laurel deliberately misused her position (again) as an ADA to threaten a suspect. Oliver was a serial killer and I felt more engaged with his journey than this bureaucratic lying etc. Wouldn't she have been representing the accused in season 1? She is a pox upon the lair, and Diggle agreeing that she should go out instead of him because she lost Sara .... wtf kind of logic is that. The wrongness of Laurel dressing up as her sister and actually pretending to be her is so awful that I can't help but think it is deliberately horrible and my stupid hopeful heart does believe that Sara could be coming back. On a side note: I would have been all for a leather pantsuit for Laurel's costume. Would have made much more sense.

I'm not sure whether to take the "I'm the justice you can't run from" as a standard superhero line or as a meta commentary on how the viewers can't escape Laurel.

Lol, so many options other than Malcom: Quentin / police Lyla / argus Barry / star labs Ray / atom

Despite feeling like I have read a lot of spoilers and interviews. I still have no idea what the purpose of the season is or where it is heading. Laurels arc has been described somewhat but its pretty slim on other characters or actual plot. Maybe I have missed a lot of stuff..... 3.10 Left Behind Oliver: Dead Felicity: Sad and Ray Diggle: Chats with Laurel & fights baddies Roy: Fights baddies Thea: Throws scissors Laurel: Suits up (alone?) 3.11 Midnight City Oliver: Dead Felicity/ Diggle/ Roy/ Thea: ? Laurel: Tries and fails at BC 3.12 Uprising Oliver: Dead - returns at end of ep Felicity / Diggle / Roy / Thea: ? Laurel: Accepted by Team Arrow 3.13 Canaries Oliver / Felicity / Diggle / Roy / Thea: ? Laurel: Vertigo & Sara (spec) 3.14 The Return Oliver: ? Slade returning & another character (pls be Sara back from the dead) Felicity / Diggle / Roy / Thea / Laurel:? 3.15 Nanda Parbat Oliver / Felicity / Diggle / Roy / Thea /Laurel: ? Or, maybe it is meant to be a metaphor for their aimlessness after Olivers death?

It does seem as though it's relevant time to boost the BC arc and makes sense to have KC there. I imagine it is also useful to have the actor there as any questions about the 'polarising' nature of Laurel and the writing of the character will will be tempered by politeness towards KC. It allows them to control the tone if not entirely the content of any criticisms. That said, the make up of the panels is problematic as noted by many here.

I agree wholeheartedly. I used to get taken out of the narrative just in laurel scenes, But now entire episodes have a similar effect (are laureled?). I am finding it difficult to engage with a narrative that only makes sense with the knowledge of an external rationale (laurel lance = black canary). The constant lamp shading of the character does not ease the sensation of displacement. That's what I watch community for, It doesn't work for me on arrow. All that being said, I'm not sure how much my bitterness is just displaced embarrassment that I recommended this show to so many people back in s2.

So after a brief reprieve last week this does feel a bit like season 2b to me. Lots of things happening and not much making sense from a character perspective. Though to be fair, last week was all over the shop in regards to plot, but I still felt connected to the characters. Good Things Oliver sticking by Roy, but as others have noted - pity that meant the rest of the team had to act out of character. Ted was better than I thought he would be, yay for exceeding my very low expectations The Stegosaurus comment the boxing glove arrow - that is the kind of nod that works for me on this show. Not so Good Things Laurel's arc, I feel like they are trying to address all the complaints, but by referencing them rather than working on the character. So much lamp shading and mostly at Laurel's expense. you don't want insta-canary - here have a slow progression of inept, unstable canary you don't think she has enough training - have lots of screen time with Ted Grant an ex-vigilante that brings out the hypocrite in Oliver you don't think she has gone through enough - have a throwaway line about sobriety and a reminder each week that she is ANGRY about Sara's death you don't want her on team arrow - have the character herself and felicity call her on it WTF Things If Diggle thought that Roy killed Sara under some effect of Mirikuru and still argued he should face justice, why not when he killed the cop?

Lol, yeah I don't think he'll be on board, but it does allow a window for backtracking. It might look horrible for him to keep watching - but at least he would still have a show!

Lol, synchronised thoughts, I just posted about this in the media thread.

Well, at least now we know how the arrow after show is going to go. What's the bet that Amell 'convinces' John that Laurel as black canary is worth watching. Saves John from having to make good on his promise not to watch if Laurel is Black Canary and gives Stephen an opportunity to spin the 'she is going to struggle' bit.

Does anyone get the sense that Felicity is becoming the lynchpin of the DC TVerse? If so, I am wholeheartedly in support.

I think a lot of the discomfort that I feel with Laurel is a problem with origin stories more generally - how to know what the character is going to be in the future and at the same time still be interested in watching them get there. Oliver is an dick 75% of the time, but I can put that in context of when he was 100% a douchebag in the flashbacks and in the future he has 3 years to go to lower that percentage. I am invested in him becoming Green Arrow because I can see his incremental change. Even Oliver at his most annoyingly high pitched still gets moments of heroism on the island. The structure of the show does not allow Laurel's journey to be contextualised in the same way. Meaning that each each week I am trying to find something in her character that indicates heroism and quite often coming up not only empty handed but with evidence to the contrary. Maybe it is a good thing that it wasn't hardwired in to the show as they wouldn't have been able to reconfigure around the issues with the character. But it does make it difficult to get a handle on where Laurel is going and this uncertainty seems to create a lot of confusion and annoyance.

I thought it might be a good time to balance my bitterness with some love…. 1. I actually love the format of having the present and 5 years ago running in parallel and eventually looping back on itself. Sometimes the connections are a bit forced, but I think it is a great creative constraint for the show. I like that it has an end point and specific structure that operates similarly to a comic book run. Then if it runs for longer than 5 years, someone else can take it over and rework it. 2. The stunts. They are audacious – even if it doesn’t always come off (yep -motorcycle jousting) – it is exciting to watch them attempt something crazy every week. 3. Quentin, I love that he sounds like he is imported from a completely different show 4. Diggle 5. Sin – Please let her be Canary jr 6. Stephen Amell – Season 3 so far in particular – the kaleidoscope of emotions he portrays between the personas of The Arrow/Oliver Queen and various permutations shifting between them is fascinating to watch. 7. Thea – I love her evolution and she is the character I am the most excited for at the moment. 8. “what colour are your shoes”

I went from being amused at the sometimes stupidity of the show to being outright bitter this week. I honestly thought that there was a long game of accepting and recognising that laurel is dishonest, fairly incompetent and mentally unstable and that at one point the writers would acknowledge that this was a direction that they were working towards. Everyone would then heave a sigh of relief and say 'I knew it'. Then Sara died (and in such a way). Then the reference to the freezer with the line “we didn’t know what to do with her”. There is no way that was a not deliberate. Now I feel like the writers are just gas-lighting the fans with the character of Laurel. And I am tired of it. I am not interested in trying to reconcile Laurel as written/acted and what the writers say about her or her intended role as BC. That is just too much heavy lifting, its exhausting. The mental gymnastics required to make her actions in any way palatable let alone heroic are at present reliant on the audience not listening to the dialogue, forgetting any previous actions of the character, and ignoring facial and body language cues - that is ridiculous. The main impression I am left with is that they must have really hated Black Canary to punish her like this. I went from ignoring Laurel and accepting that season 3 was make or break for her, to having a hair trigger of intolerance for her presence - is that how I am meant to feel about the lead of a show?

Except for Brother Blood and Vertigo. Both villains and both cases where the power is seen to lie in the mask rather than the individual. Which does raise the question if it is about the Canary as a symbol not an alter ego - can anyone wear the mask?

Sorry if someone has already posted this or it is completely obvious... I just realised why they choose to go with the ridiculous 'Sara has been dead for the past 6 years' thing. Because otherwise there would be an actual murder investigation. You know with cops, detectives and lawyers and all that. Then they would have to take the time to set up a corruption in the system narrative arc to justify Laurel going outside the law. (In any case that should have been set up the moment they wrote laurel as a lawyer when intending her for bc) So I guess they don't have time for that.

Is delusion a stage of grief? Because I am really hoping for any possibility that the whole thing is an elaborate fake out and this was a way for Sara to shed the identity of 'Canary' and choose another. Why would they go to the trouble to insist that Sara was a hero, only to take her out like a villain. It was literally overkill how much they emphasised her dead-ness. I am hoping for a massive bait and switch that it is part of the identity arc of the season and though the Canary is dead Sara will still be alive. I know it is delusional, but I just can't fathom that they have been able to spend 3 years working on a motivation for Laurel and it ends up being Bruce Wayne lite. "darkness, no sister, continued darkness, more darkness, get it, the opposite of light" - modified untitled self portrait from the lego movie.

I totally agree with this. Also, for me it is not so much how much 'pain tax' the characters have paid, but the degree to which they are able to have agency in the narrative. The writers seem to absolutely disdain the character of Laurel, she barely ever gets to make her own decisions and when she does they almost always result in failure. This has occurred in almost every episode and is evidenced by the widespread impression that she gets everything handed to her. In her role as a lawyer she appears barely competent. In 3x01 alone, the dialogue for laurel stated that she is winning her cases in the DA's office due to the evidence the Arrow gathers. (how that evidence is admissible is another question entirely). Then they made her claim Quentin's 'surprise'. Then in the final scene, she had no agency or effect - she was there to be simply be a witness to her sisters death - even at the very least she didn't attempt to perform CPR or call an ambulance. This is all in the writing of the character. On Laurels behalf - despite a lack of capability in her profession, I am still just a little bit hopeful that by the end of the season she claims her identity as a lawyer (not as a vigilante) and fights for the city that way. That she chooses justice over vengeance.