apinknightmare

I've said it before and I'll say it again. One or more members of that writing staff are VC Andrews fans, there is no doubt in my mind. There's just way too much sister swapping/incestuous undertones in some of this stuff, haha. And I agree with you. I think Sara dying made him decide he wanted to be Oliver Queen too. The rest of the season is (I guess) going to be him trying to figure out how to do that.

I want to say yes to prepare myself, but I think it'd be kind of weird to address something so huge like that on The Flash, since people who watch The Flash and don't watch Arrow would have absolutely no clue about what was going on, but I guess that's not the point. But the kid would be a huge moment for Oliver, not the Arrow, so then again, maybe not? What I'm saying is I have no idea, haha.

I think it's Felicity - another angle of this shot: Also, how is Malcolm out and about in SC without getting arrested? Is he passing himself off as a long-lost Merlyn relative or some kind of weird doppelganger?

You make sense. :) She wasn't really a major player for most of last season, and now it seems like she's second only to Oliver, what with her BC journey underway. It does feel jarring, since she's been featured so heavily in the past few episodes and she went from having an almost non-existent (at least, onscreen) relationship with Oliver to what I guess we're supposed to be seeing as a super close friendship? It's tough to gauge anything by these first few eps, and probably tough to judge by the first ten, since they shifted gears midway through last season to showcase Lance drama.

Yeah, that's what I meant. :)

I guess I'm in the minority, because I don't like this dress at all. I think it almost looks borderline tacky (I do like the longer version on the website - maybe it needs a longer body to look better for me though). And I find it kind of funny that she's wearing that on a date to a coffee shop, haha.

I see what you're saying, but Oliver and Felicity's physical interactions now are loaded in a way that Oliver and Laurel's are not. There's nothing to read into Oliver comforting Laurel - he's the one who knows her the best (the one who knows her at all) out of the group of people who know Sara died, so he was being a good friend to her. He can't touch Felicity now and have it just be comforting, because it means more. He loves her, she loves him. They've decided (for whatever stupid reasons) that they can't pursue that love, so the little things, like comforting touches and quiet words, they hurt. I don't think it'll be that way forever, but for now? Yeah. But even though Oliver and Laurel are interacting more, I don't really see them getting closer. They were the opposite of close in this last ep. In the one before, they were understandably touchy with each other. I won't worry about it until there's something to worry about, but I totally get the anticipatory doom.

The designer made the dress with a longer skirt - they must've altered it for the show. This is what it looks like: http://www.bcbg.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-BCBG-Site/default/Product-Show?pid=XVR6W823-001&dwvar_XVR6W823-001_color=001&cgid=dresses

I guess this just hasn't gotten to me yet because this past ep is the first one after everything was laid out on the line, and I didn't really question anything in any of their scenes in Sara. Felicity made it pretty clear to him that she wasn't going to waste away in that foundry, and that she didn't think that he should either and she wasn't going to stand by and watch him do it. There wasn't any resolution to that, true, because it's more of a season-long thing, but I thought Oliver throwing the dirt on Sara's PINE BOX COFFIN IN A SHALLOW GRAVE, BUT WHATEVER, SHOW was a nice touch to bind them together, even though they are a bit distant right now. I got the impression that Felicity was acting like nothing happened because she put that in a box and is trying to move on (I'm not sure which scene you're referring to with her being hurt by Oliver giving her the cold shoulder - perhaps I've blocked it. ;) ), and she can't be the best she can be for the mission if she's all hung up on her hurt feelings. This ep was definitely missing something, but for me it wasn't so much in the acting or writing as it was in the editing, like the situation with the job with Ray, as you wrote. If we knew how much Oliver knows, then we'd have more insight into Oliver's attitude, but in that particular instance, I believe it really does have to do with not being able to find Sara's killer, and maybe a little bit to do with her not being able to be around at all hours of the night like she probably was when she worked at Buy More. But we kind of do need to know if he's aware of who her employer is. I can't imagine he wouldn't be, but if Oliver's feelings about it are eventually going to be addressed , then we should probably get to see when he finds out, huh? I'm willing to wait for things to get better, but TPTB do need to start being more clear with regards to editing choices and whatnot. I don't like having to guess about what may or may not have transpired off camera. Thankfully I don't feel like I'm having to guess at character motivations or feelings yet.

Plus, I think it was just frustration from Sara's killer's trail running cold. I mean, he has no job, he has no friends that he sees regularly outside of the team, he's not in a relationship, he has nothing to occupy his time other than being the Arrow, so when he fails at that, it's a HUGE failure. Even if he and Felicity weren't on the outs, I wouldn't have expected him to smile in that moment.

I think we were looking for alternative alter egos for Laurel in the hope that Sara would live. Since she's dead, I don't think it matters much anymore.

Bringing this over from the Corto Maltese thread regarding the emotional distance between Oliver and Felicity in the last ep: While it's true that Oliver made the decision to end things, he did it in a way that left the door open for them in the future (not now, maybe not ever). I think part of him was hoping that she'd wait for him. She's the one who told him to shit or get off the pot, to stop dangling those maybes. Say yes or no, make a decision. He refused to do that and he did it in the worst way possible - by refusing to tell her he didn't love her. So she told him it was over and she walked away. I can see how in Oliver's convoluted, emotionally scarred mind that she rejected him. And then in the last episode, she told him she wasn't going to just hang around the foundry waiting for him to die. Yeah, he had that revelation with Diggle at the end, but he probably doesn't know how to balance the push she gave him to live with the hurt he feels at her telling him that it's over. This is the first ep where we've seen any interaction with them since both of those big things, and they had 30 seconds of screen time together, so the distance doesn't really bother me yet. Yeah, something is missing, but I think that's intentional (and unlike some others, I don't think that it's so they can test out putting Laurel in Felicity's place as a love interest). The show has been pretty heavy handed with the symbolism in O/F's relationship (the light, him telling her that meeting her brought back some of his humanity, Oliver looking longingly at Felicity, Lyla and baby Sara in the same ep he basically decides to give up the possibility of having a family), and I don't think they'd go that hard with it if they were just using it as some kind of placeholder until they can figure out a way to get Oliver and Laurel back together. Not saying Oliver and Laurel won't get back together (although please, no) but they're pretty committed to this relationship IMO, and I think the emotional distance is just emotional distance - it has nothing to do with some sneaky plans to test out another potential O/L romantic pairing. They might want to get Felicity out of the way to firmly establish a close friendship between the two, but the EPs have been talking about a friendship and closeness between them all during the break. Do I trust them? Not so much, but it's not like I can change their plans, and I'll keep watching as long as O&L don't try dating again. I think Oliver and Felicity might be distant for the next ep, but that they'll slowly start taking steps toward each other. They'll start to miss each other and someone (likely Oliver, IMO) will reach out to start mending things, realizing that she's slipping away. It might take a while, and yes, it's frustrating, but I'm invested, so I'll watch. We likely have a long road ahead of us where these two are concerned, because I think Felicity will be rightfully wary of him whenever he decides he'd like to commit to her, but I don't think it has to be full of angst (will it be? that's another question). Oliver will probably have to work for it, and I'll enjoy watching that immensely if it ever happens, especially since working for it isn't really something that Oliver's ever had to do. After we get past the bumpy parts, the road ahead has the potential to be pretty great, I think.

Taking my response to the relationships thread.

It wouldn't surprise me. Merlyn?

But he was in a position of authority over her by virtue of his name being on the building. She wasn't in a position to tell him no, boss or not.

Yeah. Laurel's encounter would've been just as effective if she'd somehow been scared to the point where she realized a bat wouldn't cut it and she wasn't quite equipped to defend herself the way she needed to. Maybe if the guy had taken a few swings and she barely got away? She could've still gone to Oliver to ask him to train her, then gone back to Ted and NOT been beaten to the point of hospitalization (or at all). And I understand what they were going for with Thea, but...yeah, hopefully we don't have to see anything like that again. Of course, neither one of those scenarios had to play out they way they did for motivational purposes, just trying to figure out a way things could've worked better in the story they did tell.

I wouldn't have wanted him to hit her or hurt her any more (watching it was bad enough as it was) but I am surprised that he didn't bother to find out who she was. Then again, he was probably in too much of a hurry to get back to his girl so he could beat the shit out of her for talking to someone about what he did to her. Good thing Quentin called in that anonymous tip.

Not an idiot at all, please don't write that. Opinions, we all have 'em!And I do see your point, it's just that I don't recall her ever being dissatisfied with the system even when she did have to go outside of it to get things done. She just happily involved the Arrow/blackmailed people/whatever and went on her way. She must've seen a ton of domestic violence cases working with the disadvantaged and in the county/city court system, so this sudden realization that the legal system sucks for DV victims and her deciding to go after their abusers seems like less of a character progression (she was a happy and successful DA just two eps ago) and more of a plot device. I guess I was just hoping the 'am I me or am I my sister' dilemma was less literal. I'd like to have seen her come to the realization that the system isn't fair before Sara died-then her kickstarted desire to fight for victims (that "fire" she feels, I guess) after Sara's death would feel more natural to me instead of her literally wanting to be her sister.

Oh, most definitely! The bows and arrows were left behind specifically so Oliver could play MacGuyver, but I won't complain because I loved that ridiculousness.

Did I write that not liking Felicity was a crime? IMO he was stupid to trust her enough to sign the company over to her, especially since her initial motive was to take that company away and people who want to take your things usually manipulate you into trusting them. Which is what she did, and he played right into it. So, no one took anything from him that he didn't willingly give away. And it's not like he ever really gave a shit about QC - he never really put that much effort into being CEO anyway.

And I agree that Laurel did show progress in this ep, but I just personally don't buy into her sudden disillusionment with the legal system and I think her drive to be a vigilante is plot-driven, clumsy and weak. But that's not on her, that's the writers' fault. The plus side is I wasn't actively disengaged from her storyline which is really all I can hope for at this point and I'm glad she's going to get proper training-watching her get beaten was tough to take.

Wasn't Quentin the one who called in the anonymous tip?

Agreed! I love it when the show goes all-out ridiculous like that.

Well, uh...yeah. Because the first time Oliver met Isabel, she was what? Trying to take his company from him! He was stupid for trusting her.

Yeah, but it's probably not a good idea for two vigilantes to travel with the weapons they're performing illegal acts with. Good call on Oliver's part (it's rare).