apinknightmare

Oh, absolutely. I wasn't making fun of him for it at all, I think it's endearing! And to keep this on topic, I'm really excited about Slade's return too.

Yeah, but how would he even know it was an insult? He doesn't know Laurel or Thea, much less the fact that they call him Ollie. Seems to me like maybe he was using a nickname to be condescending, to put himself in a position of authority over Oliver. But since these writers don't seem to be too concerned with continuity or how Barry would even know Oliver's nickname since he's never met the only people who use it, maybe he does mean it as an insult, haha.

If so, hopefully the injury is in an upper quadrant so his shirt needs to be ripped off for medical reasons.

Haha, I remember when he launched his F*ck Cancer campaign and he mentioned that the sponsors suggested that he sell the shirts for $21, but he was going to lower it to $18 because he likes multiples of three. I was like...oh, you beautiful, generous, beautiful numerically challenged man, haha. Normally I wouldn't trust MG about the levels thing, but AK tweeted about this scene, MG is selling it AND SA is selling it - so, something's happening. I used to think that Oliver admitted his feelings for her once he found out the League was after him. But wouldn't it be so like this show to have him tell her he wanted to make a go of it and that he loves her, so he's fully committed, and THEN have the League thing come into play? Not sure how it's going to play out, but I'm super curious about it. I would say it's next to impossible for SA of all people to say it's the best Olicity scene so far in the series if he's encouraging her to date Ray. I think there's a very low chance of that happening.

I think he just misspoke. He's probably talking about that LEVEL NINE moment in next week's ep.

Seems like Wells tells her something that makes her suspicious or gets her hackles up, but something happens immediately after that makes her forget about it (for a bit?)

Barry, you are WAY outta line, son!

Well the way you phrased your original comment implied that Oliver was somehow barging in on Barry's territory unwelcome (which he isn't). And we don't know what Oliver's idea of training involves since we haven't seen the show yet, and that one scene where Oliver's telling Barry he's going to shoot him has no context whatsoever.

The Arrow team goes to Central City tracking a villain that showed up at the end of the last episode of Arrow. When Barry finds out they're there, he asks Oliver if he'd like to help him track down a guy who's robbing banks in Central City. Oliver isn't there to give Barry advice on how to be a hero (although I suspect he does, per the synopsis) - he's there to track someone who's killing people in Starling City. It's not like he's there barging in on Barry's territory. He was there doing his own thing when Barry asked him if he wanted to help.

What difference does it make? He asked Oliver for help; doesn't matter when he did it since obviously Oliver's (and Diggle and Felicity's) presence isn't unwelcome.

He'll probably save the asskicking for after Oliver and team assist him in catching the bad guy. Since Barry, you know, asked him for help.

Same. "That stupid bar"!??!? HOW DARE YOU, BARRY. HOW. DARE. YOU.

I actually don't think casual viewers care enough to be left feeling annoyed. Since they don't think about the characters like we do, they take most things at face value. A dress is a dress is a necklace is a necklace is an employee believing in her boss's mission. If they're entertained, I don't think it much matters. At least, that's how my friends who are casual viewers react to the show. I guess I'm just not that put out with having to fill in backstory or determine motivations, because this show moves at such a breakneck pace that I have to do that for 90% of it anyway - it's not something that's specific to Felicity's storyline. It is absolutely a writing failure, but it's not enough of one to keep me from watching. Personally, I understand enough about Felicity at this point to get why she believes in Ray and his mission without having to see it actually happening onscreen. The things Ray is doing have the standard markings of what floats her boat. And I just didn't get that she realized she was even attracted to him until 3x07 or that she was charmed by him or considered anything romantic between them until he kissed her, which seemed to surprise both of them. That might be why I don't feel blindsided by it or need explanation for it, I don't know.

Why would he have gained the team's trust? Felicity's trust in Ray is as her employer, not as a vigilante or someone in the know. As far as we know, Oliver's only spoken directly to the guy once - and Felicity isn't asking Oliver or Diggle or Roy to trust him. She trusts him in her work environment, and all the signs that point to why have been part of the show. I just find it odd that for the most part she was not judged for trusting Oliver and Barry when those were definitely gut feeling/judgment call type things, but she is being judged for trusting Ray when everything that we've been shown indicates that there's no reason why she shouldn't. She actually has more basis to trust Ray than any other person we've seen her trusting on the show. As for her making a big mess and having to get herself out of it, didn't she just do that, like...two episodes ago? Not saying this is the perfect example or that she shouldn't have to deal with long-lasting consequences of her actions, but it's not like it hasn't happened.

I guess I just don't see the tears - I think her eyes maybe look watery because of the lighting, but...yeah, I just don't see it. And obviously YMMV, but everything Felicity mentioned in that speech I don't even have to make a leap to know that she meant it or why. We've seen him demonstrate the characteristics that she was describing several times throughout the show. He doesn't act like your typical business man. He doesn't seem to be interested in making money. He does seem to be out to make the world a better place. If she believes all those things about him (and I don't see why she wouldn't - it's what we've been shown about him from Felicity's POV), then it's not much of a leap to come to the conclusion that if she thinks he's out to do good and he has been doing good that he will want to do good with those mines. The show has some work to do if I'm expected to believe that these two are ready to jump into a relationship (and honestly I don't have much faith in them doing that, regardless), but what's been shown on screen for me so far is enough for me to buy that they have a good enough working relationship for Felicity to be able to make a pitch like she did and that Palmer has her doing the kind of work so far that has allowed her to believe in his vision and that she wants to help him achieve it.

I guess I'll just be one of the few over here in the corner who doesn't think Felicity's acting wildly out of character at all. I'll preface this by writing that I think the writers have made some huge missteps with regards to Ray's introduction, and I wish it had played out differently. I don't really like him that much, but I can see why Felicity would, and upon rewatch I didn't really find her speech about him to be all that impassioned or out of character. Every single thing she said about him was something that we have been shown to be true, at least from Felicity's point of view. She's vice president of whatever for the company, I'm sure she's gotten a good look at all of his plans. He's done nothing but talk about how he wants to make Starling a better place, and that talk has been backed up by actions that we have seen on screen. Why would she have reason to doubt his sincerity about it? Why would she still be suspicious of him at this point in time? Yes, she and Ray got off to a rough start and I would've preferred the "stalking" element (joke or not) to not have been a part of it, but why is she naive for believing in him when he is continuously doing what he said he was going to (and bringing Felicity in to help him do good things), while no one was calling her naive for signing on to Oliver's crusade when he was still out killing people? Yeah, she believed he could be more than that, but all she had was a gut feeling to go on at that point in time and she just happened to be right about it. At that point she had spent a lot less time with Oliver than she had with Ray, and she knew he had been lying to her face. She was the one trying to convince Oliver that he could do some real good in the city. Ray's already doing it! Felicity's obviously someone who trusts her instincts and goes with her gut. Her gut told her to trust and help Oliver, and her gut's telling her to trust and help Ray. Maybe she's wrong about this one, but maybe she's not. Truth is, I'm feeling oddly protective of Felicity right now, because it seems to me like her character is being called into question because she happens to like and admire a guy that the audience doesn't.

I wonder if she's going to actually tell them though? The spoiler doesn't really clarify. Either she tells them and they lose their shit, and she goes out and does something stupid by suiting up because she has nothing left to lose, or She doesn't tell them and she does something stupid by suiting up because she's so angry she needs to do good and punch criminals. And maybe track down Sara's killer if she has time for that.

The crazy eyes are seriously terrible. I wish someone would make him stop it. Despite me thinking some of the things he does are creepy (although to be honest, a lot of his creepiness is lessened for me upon rewatching, but ymmv), I totally get what Felicity sees in Ray. She's an idealistic woman, and what he's presented to her thus far (giving up his salary and encouraging the business elite of Starling to do the same, the cogeneration project, his vision for "saving" SC, who knows what else he has her working on that we don't know about) must hit all of those buttons for her. He does seem genuine in his desire to help/save the city, since she doesn't know that he's up to some shenanigans with super suits and dwarf stars. It doesn't take too much for me to understand why Felicity would be interested in dating Ray, or at least why she might be open to the possibility.

Low as my faith is in the people who run this show, I seriously doubt MG would be selling the scene as a 9 out of 10 that only isn't a 10 because they don't have sex if it's about Oliver telling her she should date some other guy. They must tell each other how they feel about each other and talk about what could've/would've been-slash-what they would like to be if things were different or something of the like.

disregard

I wish that person had asked if Felicity (and the team) was going to be trying to get him back rather than if she'd be looking for him. I'm less curious about whether they know where he's going when he leaves (because I'm sure they do) than I am about whether they're going to actively try to get him back, since that might give us a clue as to whether they think he's dead or not.

My comment wasn't about Thea though, it was about the possibility of Oliver turning himself over to keep Ra's from killing the people of Starling. I was just imagining a scenario where Oliver went to Ra's outside of trying to protect Thea, since we're all assuming that's what he's doing (and I think it is, just playing devil's advocate).

It's just an all-around shitty mystery. The team should have a group of suspects that remain suspects until they're cleared, so that the pool gets smaller as time goes on. Instead we have a non-existent pool of suspects, and one pops up and is cleared by the end of the episode. That's why I'm fairly convinced that while Sara knew her killer, we don't know who it is or if/how they knew each other at this time. This whole storyline is based on shock value and not on sense, that's why it sucks so incredibly badly (yes, it also sucks because Sara's dead, but they could've still made finding her killer somewhat interesting if they wanted to do that). Sara died so that Oliver could shut down and insist he had to be the Arrow, so that Felicity could find worth outside of the cave, so that Diggle could do...whatever in the hell he was going to do since they didn't make it was clear he was leaving the team until the episode after he did it, and most importantly so that Laurel could become BC or whatever in the hell she's going to become. And so Quentin could be kept in the dark so he could fall into the bottle again, or die. Whatever. Who did it? Who cares. It seems like even the people running the show don't.

I'm not entirely sure the mystery was ever built around having a payoff. The whole point of it, even as the EPs explained after it happened, were the things it set in motion, not the act itself.

Yeah, I misread that part of your post. If I'm forced to choose between people I think would be legit suspects that WE know Sara knew, then I'd only have two: Merlyn or Ra's. I won't ever buy Thea doing it, and I really won't buy Nyssa being brainwashed to do it, so I hope it's neither of them. I think it's going to wind up being a bullshit mystery though. These EPs love their twists. The spoiler reads that she "plays a pivotal part in the investigation into Sara's death." Could be she provides an alibi to the person who's being blamed, or maybe she met up with Sara and knew what she was doing in town which sheds light onto another suspect. The fact that she's been gone for so long might play into her pivotal part, IDK.