PhilMarlowe2

I could also see Vicki saying that in a faux, half-joking way, "You better be nice to me or I'm gonna make shit up about Eddie!" Not like she would actually do it, but one of her over-the-top, "We gotta be on the same side" threats.

"The heated towel drawers" - the fuck? I just can't with these two.

I am not the OP, but I think there is a huge difference between seeing clients in a professional setting and snarking on self-described "fictional characters" on reality TV. Full disclosure: I work as a healer and am trained in an intense therapeutic modality. If Tamra were to walk into my office, it would be a totally different situation than when I am decompressing at the end of a long day and switching on Bravo to unwind. I would hate for one to have much of a reflection on the other. And the truth is, I actually do have compassion for everyone involved in these shows - at times, I even find myself loving them for their foibles and their humanity (even though it grosses me out to feel love for people exhibiting such vile behavior - yes, that even includes Ms. Terry) - and I often use the shows to casually look at what triggers me and why it bothers me. But I am human. Like all humans, I have a higher self and a lower self. The higher self comes to work with me. The lower self watches "The Real Housewives" and posts on these forums. There is room for both.

I think this guest bedroom conversation will always hit a stalemate because we all have different perceptions (TM Heather) of the situation. For me, I am someone who wants to be comfortable - especially if I am vacationing. If I don't like a room, I'm not going to want to stay there. It's not that I couldn't cope with a room like Vicki's guest/maid room, it's just that I wouldn't want to cope with it. And it would work in the reverse for me as well: I would never want guests to lie to me or put up with something they didn't like for the sake of my feelings. If there were a reason why my accommodations were not working out for them, I would so much rather they go to a hotel if that would make them genuinely happier. I would much prefer that to them silently suffering/needlessly coping for no reason. I just prefer everyone to be honest. I'll be honest, you'll be honest, we'll all be happier for it. Vicki herself was aware the room left something to be desired - she was pretty much apologizing for it from the moment they got there. I don't personally have a problem with the Beadors taking Billy's room because of the simple fact that Vicki refused to let them go to a hotel. I feel like if Vicki was going to put her foot down that they had to stay in her condo, then it makes sense that Vicki's family take the shitty little guest room.

I went and found it again. It's at the 30 minute mark, very subtle, the camera is on Tamra and Vicki is speaking under her. It actually goes: Tamra: I wasn't saying Brooks is a nasty person, I was just saying I think there is somebody better. Vicki: And I think there is somebody better for Eddie, let's put it that way. Burn.

Aaw, I voted for Vicki because I think she deserves it as the true OG. I love Shannon, but she hasn't put in her time yet. That said, I despise Caroline Manzo (and was one of the few who hated her from the first season - I will never forget how disgusting I found her as she melodramatically bellowed, "You're garbage!" to Danielle at the reunion), so I will be voting for Shannon all the way. Even though she really isn't the best housewife of all time. Although now that I write this, I do think it would be awesome if Shannon won that crown because you know it would send Tamra and Heather into a total tailspin!

My favorite part of the reunion? When Tamra is defending her skepticism of Brooks and says something like, "I am looking out for you, I want what is best for you" and Vicki snarks back, "And I want what's best for Eddie." Dayum, Vicki, that was cold - and I absolutely loved it. Also, someone help me because I need clarification: Tamra said on the reunion that she thinks Shannon is a sweet, gentle soul who got manipulated by Lizzie's lies. Why, then, did she recently give an interview (I think post-reunion) claiming that Shannon was a calculated, obsessed Housewives superfan who talked about divorce being good for ratings? Which is it, Tamra?

As much as I would love to see Tamra go, I would equally love for her to come back to face the music of a cast that hates her. I would love to see her suffer the way Gretchen and Alexis suffered and then give her da Bravo boot!

I think Vicki's number one asset this season - and something she legitimately deserves credit for - is that she unwaveringly sided with Shannon during filming. This was long before the episodes aired, so it had nothing to do with aligning with the fan favorite. Somehow, somewhere, Vicki became the voice of reason - she liked Shannon, she saw that Tamra and Heather were being nasty to her, and she took up for Shannon, she even told Tamra to apologize to her. I don't think I've ever seen Vicki take up for the underdog before - well, she did with Alexis, but that was a relationship of mutual convenience. Vicki's friendship with Shannon was perhaps the least usury, least manipulative friendship I've ever seen with her.

Yeah, I will chime in and say that I think Lizzie is very attractive. I see what people are saying about her being "too much" in presentation (and I hate her reunion dress), but I think of her as someone who is clearly beautiful in real life.

In her latest blog, Heather is eating so much crow and it is soooooo delicious to behold. She is actually pulling the "no one is perfect, you don't know what it's like to be so judged, I'm a victim for having myself exposed on reality TV, why are you all so hateful" card. Sorry, Heather - you took way too much delight in "gang banging" Alexis in Costa Rica - oh, I'm sorry, doing her the "favor" of a "friendly intervention" - for that shit to work now. Here's your bed, it's time to lie down in it.

The talking head interviews are filmed after the story events occur. So, if Shannon received that text about Heather and knew the e-mail was being talked about by other cast members, then it would make perfect sense for her to discuss it in interviews after the fact. The editors cut it together so it looks like she is talking about it before the events transpired. But if you read between the lines of the footage, there is not a single scene of Shannon talking about the e-mail with other cast members until she learns that Heather spilled the beans. Had Tamra not blabbed to Heather, Shannon most likely would never have discussed it in talking head interviews.

I don't think Shannon was pissed at the others for talking about the personal things that she herself had divulged. I think she was pissed about a very specific, isolated item that was told in confidence to one person being disclosed to her enemy and then that enemy spreading that specific piece of information to the Newport Beach community. I think she was especially pissed that Tamra embellished it from an e-mail discussing possible separation to outright divorce. I never saw Shannon get mad about people bringing up things she herself talked about in public. And, mileage obviously varies, but I don't see her behavior towards David as malicious per se. Punitive? Yes. Annoying? Yes. Overbearing? Yes. But I don't think she was out to tear him down. I think she was very misguidedly trying to get some sort of need met in a completely unhealthy and unfair way. I give Shannon credit for seeing her behavior on the show, owning that she was behaving horribly to David and actively fixing it.

Yeah, that is one thing I will never understand - how these women watch the show and then somehow think it's a good idea to befriend Tamra in the first place. The only explanation I can think of is that Shannon was a casual viewer, didn't see every episode and never understood the depth of Tamra's vileness.

Yes, I personally do believe that. I don't think of Shannon as a liar, so I trust her version of the events. She and Tamra were becoming very close very quickly, so it all makes sense to me. That is why Shannon felt particularly betrayed by it.

That's not actually what happened, though. Shannon told Tamra about the e-mail off-camera (in private) and it was Tamra who told Heather about it (on camera), who then blabbed to her friends, and then Shannon got the text from her husband about it on camera. If Tamra hadn't blabbed about it, the e-mail (as far as we know) would never have been brought up.

Well, by her own admission, she was drunk and angry that night. I don't think she considers that behavior her standard operating procedure.

Lizzie was similarly bashful about it on WWHL and then admitted she didn't like talking about it out of respect for Christian's feelings, which I buy.

Anyone else think Danielle is "the cast member" that told Terry and Heather about David's comments about the hoedown? And that is why no one is naming who circulated the info?

Best example: Shannon telling Tamra that she remembers all of Lizzie's dinner party because she wasn't too drunk to remember it, so Tamra shouldn't ever be talking about Shannon's drinking again. Tamra had nothing to say. Just a bratty, "Okay." Shannon did what Gretchen and Alexis could never do - she shut that shit down. There was nowhere for Tamra to go. It boggles my mind that Tamra is still trying to spin all her lies. I just wish someone - anyone - would just flat out say to Tamra, "The fact that you lie and then try to paint other people as drunk or insane to cover for your lies is downright despicable and disgusting." It's all in the subtext, it's almost said - but no one just comes out and says it. Tamra needs to be read the riot act the way she reads other people the riot act. If Tamra does come back next year, it really does seem that Vicki and Shannon are poised to not let her get away with a thing. Absolutely loved Vicki in the preview saying, "Well, you lie all the time."

Everything I need to know about Heather was conveyed in her reaction to Terry saying, "...that sardonic smirk - you might have to look up sardonic" (or whatever he said) - if you watch Heather, she cannot help herself from laughing snidely at Terry's dig. She kinda/sorta tries to hide it by turning her face away, but she can barely help herself. It's a total Mean Girl laugh, delighting in Terry's cruelty. In that one moment, you can see that any pretense Heather makes about being above "the petty nonsense" is just that (pretense) - she is as much as a mudslinger as her pal Tamra.

Because I apparently have nothing better to do with my time, I watched some of last year's reunion and was reminded how a good portion of it was dedicated to...drum roll, please...Tamra talking out of two different sides of her mouth. It's really interesting to note that Gretchen (whom I despise) was producing texts that basically verified that Tamra was saying one thing to Alexis and another to Gretchen about their friendship triangle. With Alexis, Tamra was all, "I want you at my wedding dress shopping, I want to forgive and move on, Gretchen seems to have an issue with this and it's bothering me," and with Gretchen, Tamra was all, "FML, remind me if I ever want to make up with Alexis again that I hate her, I don't really want her at my wedding dress shopping, etc." It's interesting because I (and many others, I think) hated Gretchen, so I was happy to see her get skewered. But, in hindsight, this is the exact thing Shannon was talking about this season. Tamra is a compulsive liar, a compulsive shit stirrer and compulsively two-faced. This is two seasons in a row where someone is accusing her of playing all sides against the middle. Not a coincidence, I don't think. I wish someone would point this out at this year's reunion.

The RHoOC forum has always been my favorite of all the Housewives forums. I am going to be sad when the season has ended and all this discussion wanes. It's been a great season with y'all!

For what it's worth, I have a friend who works on RHoA and I know they are currently cutting together the season premiere which is set to air on November 2nd (I think) - not sure how staggered the RHoA and RHoBH seasons were last year, but it might be an indication of when to expect their return.

This is an interesting conversation. I agree that, on paper, Terry is certainly a much more upstanding citizen than a lot of these guys: he hasn't deserted his kids, he doesn't cheat the government or his fellow citizens out of money (that we know of), and he does seem to genuinely adore Heather. All that said, he is still my personal most loathsome househusband. I think because he embodies just the most sympathy-less archetype: the rich, privileged good ole boy who has all the resources in the world and doesn't care about anything other than his own fucking greed and ego. I mean, as strange as this may sound, I can at least look at guys like Slade and Jim Bellino and say, "Hey, these are men who are not fully functioning in their lives - they have major issues - they exhibit criminal behavior - they need major help - they need 12-step programs or spiritual intervention or jail time - their lives are clearly mismanaged." But Terry? He doesn't even have the inherent human folly of a mismanaged life. He has everything going for him. And yet he is still that shallow and judgmental and self-obsessed. And excessive and mean-spirited. He has all the money in the world. And yet he wants more of it. Just because. He is a douche bag. As much as I hate to say it, Tamra was on point with her, "Prick with a Porsche" comment - there is no existential crisis there, there is no deep seated suffering there, there is no warmth there, there is no pain of failure there - there is just a prick with a Porsche (and I am not saying that is true of all pricks with Porsches - just this particular prick with a Porsche). And now I have just unwittingly stumbled upon my vote for title thread - Miss Terry Dubrow: Prick with a Porsche. Edited because the "c" word is apparently not allowed on this site.