JessDVD

From what I can tell, a CNM certification is required for a woman to work in an actual hospital. The CPM is a shorter program and only certifies women (in certain states, at that) to deliver babies in a birthing center or at home. Also, I think I've heard that CNMs aren't *allowed* to do home deliveries (possibly also in certain states?), so if that's what a mom-to-be wants (and I know several who are relatively normal, and done home births), she needs a CPM to do the delivery.

There was the miscarriage in between Michael and Marcus though, right? To me that doesn't quite "count" as a space because there wouldn't have been if that baby hadn't miscarried. (I know, I am really discussing semantics of child spacing) Who knows, maybe Anna just hasn't been able to get pregnant. Seems a little unlikely to me being that she's been pregnant 4 times in 5 years or however long it's been, but I know it happens. Does anyone know the approximate spacing of Anna and her siblings? I did a google search but it didn't come up with much. I don't get the impression they were all pumped out every 18 months though.

I'd like to thank this board in part for the dream I had last night about being involved with Jana and John David escaping the Duggar compound and driving north. It involved fugitive searches, hiding from Jim Bob, selling the car we were in and buying a new, unidentifiable one, and me contacting people on these forums who have mentioned where they live for safe asylum. If anyone's wondering, they made it north. Thanks to anyone here who was involved. (I think I'll blame the nachos I had for dinner for this one...)

Marcus' birthday is in June so if Anna doesn't get pregnant this month, he'll be at least 2 years older than any future siblings. This is a pretty big space for this crowd. I'm suspecting some NFP behind closed doors.

You'll all be thrilled to know that Jim Bob and Michelle now have an official Facebook page. Can't link from phone but it's Duggar family official. So now Michelle has something else to do that's not parenting her own kids. Phew!

A Duggar-watching/following/snarking friend and I were discussing the timing stuff yesterday with the start of the new season and we have wholeheartedly concluded it's time to stop with this whole media presence outside the show, then 6 months later, we get invented footage of what we all heard about six months ago. Let's just do a few hour-long specials a year with the high points, okay? Like they did with one of Anna's deliveries, that she had the baby and then a week or two later, we got the special on a Sunday night.

I'm 95% positive that when it says "Thanks to ______" at the end of the show, that means "These people were compensated for their appearance on the show". Gil & Kelly always get a Thanks to, so I would assume they're getting paid as well. They deserve double for putting up with JB & M.

Re: cursive, I don't know what the local public schools are doing but the local private/Christian school actually has kids starting on cursive. They give parents this article that goes on about how it's more natural for kids to do curves than straight lines. My anecdotal experience is that my oldest had a terrible time with G, C, and forget about S but was really good at I and T when she was learning to write, but maybe she's just the exception.

The vegan or lesbian thing might or might not (depending on your perspective IMO) necessarily be comparable to the abortion thing, but I think the point still remains that lots of 19-year-olds are didactic and obnoxious about their cause of choice, and mellow out what they say in public, even if not their convictions, as they age. That's what I see in Ben. And again, I am profoundly grateful that facebook didn't exist when I was 19, although I'd like to think I was never that didactic or obnoxious :)

I think it's been mentioned in the PTV forums that Kelly Bates has used epidurals, and Michelle has had c-sections so she must have had spinals (like a better epidural, but you can't move anything), but I believe she didn't use epidurals with her vaginal/VBAC deliveries. Anna's were all unmedicated as they were at home or a birthing center. So, that's sort of a longer way of saying I don't know but I don't think that pain medication is explicitly not used in this group.

I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if Jessa kept her knees firmly together 3-5 days out of the month. What would remain to be seen, is if Ben were then posting sanctimonious things about people who don't trust in God enough or something on his facebook, and/or Mr. Seewald doing the same on his blog.

Can we rename this thread, "Jessa & Ben, because unemployed teenagers getting married makes so much sense!" OK... Maybe a bit wordy :-) but it's totally what I think whenever they're mentioned. I guess if you can't manage to keep your knees together a moment longer, get married at 19 but for heaven's sake have a marketable skill and a real job.

Due date of March 24. In case anyone's dying to know, that doesn't appear to be a wedding night baby. I can't remember how long their honeymoon was, so it might have been end of honeymoon. Yes, I used a due date calculator and calculated when conception might have been. It estimates July 1. I'll close that tab now.

Yes, especially to Jana and Joy Anna. During the Derick/Jill proposal, they were smiling but it absolutely looked like a fixed smile, "I'm smiling because I'm on TV but I am sooooo over this but I don't have enough saved for a plane ticket to Anywhere But Here"

I'd be willing to bet that Joseph and Josiah go to JD's and watch the contraband TV normally hidden in a closet in a box marked "ALERT memorabilia" or something like that. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if they have a TV hidden somewhere in the girls' or boys' room at the Duggar house either, but that might be less useful because of the lack of cable service. It would be really funny if the kids were secretly paying for cable TV on the side and plugging in the TV when JB & M are otherwise occupied. I often wonder if the parents are really as controlling as discussed here... it would be an awful lot of work, and I do know people, who know people, who know the Duggars (which is exactly the same as actual information) and the people who I know say that the people who know the Duggars say that they are perfectly normal, if conservative, people. And really, it would be a ton of work to be that controlling over all those kids. I'll go to the mattresses to make sure my kids are kind, respectful, contributing members of society, but I can't imagine wasting any time being so controlling over their friends, their media consumption (yes, control to some point as is age-appropriate, but loosening as they age), who they date/marry, etc.

As a non-science person, I am totally down with non-lab chem and physics... although there's a chance I might have actually understood the tiny bit of physics I studied, had I done it in a lab setting. If I'm still home schooling my kids by that point, their science past biology will be outsourced to the nearest high school or community college. I can't imagine the Duggars encouraging science to that extent though. It's not really relevant to a life of finding the most lucrative/least effort required self-employment possible.

I would assume that any Duggar who has studied anything higher than I'd guess about algebra or physical science, has done so through the College Plus program, since they have said that they use College Plus for their "higher learning" option (you know, since people who go to actual universities might, I don't know, learn something?). The folks over at TWOP did not speak of it positively; I am looking at its website right now and it is affiliated with actual accredited universities, so there's that. What I don't know (and of course their website won't say) is if it's more like that University of Phoenix (I know people who have obtained actual bachelor's degrees from there) or if it's more like those places that are more scam-y, the Consumerist website has been reporting on some of those lately. edited a third time to add that I'm reading about the majors they offer, and many of them are things that make total sense for this kind of program - business, accounting, computer information systems, so on. One of them is music (my degree) and the list of courses that one might take are: Music History and Literature, Conducting, Music Business, (all good), and my favorite: Hymn Playing. Yes, totally. Also, the first career opportunity is music teacher... um.... not with a BA in music, you're not, unless you mean like teaching music at a church or a Christian school that's less picky about certification... E for effort anyway. To take this back to Jill and Derick - they could absolutely home school if they wanted to, and it would probably be a good option for them if they do pursue missions on any level. There are a million real curriculum options out there, and I doubt Derick would be all "Oh, sure, do the Bible verses & worksheets, they'll get what they need". I know there are people out there who abuse the somewhat lax laws in certain states, but they are by far the minority and undermine the millions and millions of families who home school for a variety of non-religious and religious reasons and educate their children at least as well as than their public schooled counterparts.

I don't know that we can necessarily assess who might have been stealing whose spotlight, just because I'm not fully convinced that it's up to the Duggars entirely about when these things break. If J&D were under some kind of contract with People, they may have been subject to People's whims about when their stuff is published. (Best comment on the article on People.com was something about how it's clear People loves the Duggars and they can give it a rest at any point) Plus I'm not sure we get 100% facts on all the timing of things. We've all seen the wonky editing on the show about the sequence of things, and I think the same can be said of their media appearances.

About the "weren't trying and weren't not" thing - before the first and maybe second pregnancy, a woman might not have any idea how fertile she is. In the dept of my own personal experience, I stopped taking the pill in Jan-Feb ish of 2008 and didn't track or not track, and just (I guess, I don't remember really thinking this all the way through) seeing what would happen. I got pregnant in May. After that baby was born, I stopped taking the pill again when she was about 4 months old in June, and neither tracked nor avoided, got pregnant in September. The following June, I began regular preventative measures as I do not feel myself called to a life of gestating. Anyway, the point here is that I had no idea that I would get pregnant so quickly (for anyone who cares, #3 and #4 were also conceived within months of stopping birth control, although I did pay a little more attention to the calendar those times), and I'd assume that they meant the same. Yeah, they're probably not using any preventative measures except maybe the calendar, but they just weren't expecting a successful docking of the space shuttle on the first try. Also, my understanding is that a lot of women do know when they're ovulating and thus know when to solicit or avoid, depending (lol), but I've never been able to tell. So, that might be their situation too, especially if (and other things that aren't my business) Jill doesn't have super regular cycles. Also in the department of soooo not my business, once they announce a due date, that may shed some light on how quickly they really did get down to business on the honeymoon.

I kind of like the cake with colored inside thing, like with family and close friends, with a strict rule of no gifts. My personal pet peeve is when people make the gender announcement practically bigger than their baby's actual birth. I know someone who announced on Facebook, It's a girl! baby's full name, weight (something like 1 lb at the ultrasound, of course) and I thought well, no need to pay attention to your baby's actual birth announcement now.

I am willing to go ahead and give J&D a pass on the quickness of their pregnancy because of his mom's health, I can totally understand that. I am not giving Michelle a pass on having pregnancy tests at her house because lady, you are nearly FORTY-EIGHT GIVE IT UP PLEASE. As for when to announce, I agree with others that pretty much it is a personal comfort thing. I remember with my first, it was a struggle to make it until 8 weeks because people kept asking me when we might start having kids and my "Oh, I don't know, maybe sometime soon (like in about eight months)" pat answer was getting harder to say with a straight face. And finally, I do hope that J&D lay off the interviews with People mag because I agree with @mbutterfly and @Libby96 above that this sort of media exposure to *everything*, I don't think is healthy or wise and I hope that when they look back on it, they don't regret it.

Yeah, I actually know someone who got pregnant two or three months after she got married, and then delivered the baby early because of complications so the baby (who is now almost 8) "seems" to be a pre-wedding development, but her original due date was around their anniversary, I think. I agree that I hope for Jill's sake, the due date is outside the realm of speculation.

according to the due date calculator I just used, a June 21 conception would result in a March 14 due date. I will laugh if that's the due date they announce

I'm grossed out on about ten different levels about how Michelle has pregnancy tests stored in her house and offered one to Jill. Gross, gross, gross. Also, even if that were the case, let's add that to the list (which is getting quite lengthy) of things that are not necessary to share with People magazine.

Well - I know a lot of people consider porn to be no big deal for consenting adults but there's a good sect of normal people who believe that it's harmful to marriages. Without sharing too much, I know a couple in which the husband was addicted and it affected their marriage. I believe they ended up installing some fancy filter on their computer and have some level of accountability (don't know or want to know what) and as far as I know, are doing fine now. Also, with the variety of social media, there's also the cases of people getting into emotional affairs that lead to actual affairs by getting in touch with old boyfriends/girlfriends. Again, some might not consider this to be a big deal but others do, and being accountable to each other is a way to safeguard against that happening, if you're a marriage is forever, divorce is not an option sort. THAT SAID - you are batshit insane if THAT's the only question you have for your potential SIL, and your other one is about family size. Maybe let's get into things like "What's your relationship with God like" and "How do you plan to support my daughter" and "What do you think a healthy marriage looks like". Also, even if you are that insane, if you put that on the Internet, you have reached a level of insanity that I'm not sure is possible to return from.