JessDVD

Regarding the comment from @PinkSprinkles about Ben's dad and "great Christian" and the Reformed/Calvinist theology - my husband who grew up in a Reformed/Calvinist church says that he's never heard any of that about you can never know how great a Christian someone is. There surely could be a religion that preaches that, that the Seewalds follow - but I think that he more means that only God knows the heart and if we start labeling people to be "great Christians", it can set them up on a pedestal and if/when they fail (because we all do), it makes it that much more devastating (see for examples: any of the pastors/priests or Gothard or whoever, falling from their "higher" position due to sin). I still think it was a jerky thing to say and he should have just said "Thanks for the compliment. We're proud of him", but I think that's where he was coming from, from a religious standpoint.

I didn't say but should have, that I do agree with you, @PinkSprinkles, that he should have said what you did, and maybe explored the topic in a blog post at a later point. I don't think the comments of a blog section is the right place, ever, for a discussion about religion. Taking some stuff about the Calvinist/great Christian thing to the religion thread. I don't see Ben's life of ease taking selfies and eating out to be very compatible with the military. I fully expect he will get a job provided by (whether literally or due to connections) his dad or Jim Bob, and will be absorbed into the Duggar empire, and they might hate it, but hey, at least they get to have copious amounts of guilt-free sex.

Ben's dad's comment was a bit sanctimonious but he has a point (aside from the religious beliefs - which I have heard used before), although he didn't state this straight out, that it's a bit reaching to label someone a "great Christian" from a facebook page and a few brief appearances on a reality show. Interestingly, a few comments down from that one, Mr. Seewald said: I LOVE that! (I can't believe I just said that) and will try to remember that for when my kids are that age. @sugarplum, if you're asking what people mean by hand sex, it came from Josh & Anna's courtship/engagement, when they showed that now that they were engaged, they would be "allowed" to hold hands. So the camera showed us them holding hands, a lot (Thanks so much, TLC), and instead of just sitting here with hands held, they would unclasp and reclasp their fingers, moving their hands around a lot in ways that sort of looked like foreplay, but where the participants can only touch their hands. It honestly made me feel a little voyeuristic, Mr. DVD and I were always like "EW GET A ROOM!". Hence, hand sex. Gross. Hopefully we get less of that when the new season starts up.

Yeah, Josh's courtship/engagement came off much more normal due to less media presence and fewer interviews with People, plus the family was less of a Thing then. And the show didn't show much of their stuff anyway. There was the "chaperoned" date with Jana and John David, but it came off much more as a companion than a chaperon, plus it wasn't Jim Bob being a horny jerk on national TV. The hand sex was gross but otherwise it all came off as conservative but normal, compared to what we're seeing with Jim Bob and Michelle humping (autocorrect does not like half of my word choices here) on a mini-golf course or staring creepily at Jill skyping with Derick.

I've long thought that Jessa is completely out of $h!ts to give when it comes to the show and displaying their lives for the universe (which I think one could view differently than posting pictures about your fabulous life on Instagram), and I also think that she's just not super telegenic. Maybe she actually does like/love/tolerate/want to have sex with (choose your favorite of the above) Ben, but if she's not super telegenic (I think Jill's personality and demeanor are very compatible with reality TV show, Jessa's not so much), she may appear aloof and uncaring. I've said it here numerous times already but again - I really, really, really hope that this is actually what Jessa wants and not what's been pre-arranged for her because it will be a long slog if it's the second.

While I wouldn't discuss it on the internet, I don't think there's anything super wrong with Jessa's sisters giving her pointers on saying sweet things to Ben. I would put that in the category of marriage/relationships are a two-way street and if it were important to my husband for me to say sweet things to him, I should make an effort to say sweet things to him, even if I feel like a total dope initially. And sometimes advice from people more adept at things like saying sweet things (or whatever it is), can be helpful. Again, I would not talk about that in an interview with People mag, but conceptually, I don't think there's anything wrong with it, and also what @Higgins said while I was typing this about women wanting their husbands to be more romantic.

Whoa, breaking news in relation to the talk about Mr. Seewald and Jim Bob: http://www.people.com/article/jessa-duggar-engaged-19-kids-and-counting?hootPostID=8b95753bf62735058308661e3c2557d7 Random observations within and without the article: I hope that Ben finds a marketable skill and soon. My preference (because I know he cares a lot about that) would be NOT to be absorbed into the Jim Bob empire but that's what I foresee. I hope this is actually what Jessa wants and not just what has been arranged for her. I appreciate the semi-ambiguity of the statement "We both want a big family" because anymore a "big" family is anything over 3. Ben: "We don't feel pressure to get married" Everyone else: "LIES"

I saw the article also: http://www.thomasumstattd.com/2014/08/courtship-fundamentally-flawed/ and do agree with it, although really what all these people are getting at with this dating, courting, going steady, whatever they want to call it - they just want to avoid heartbreak. And in matters of men & women, heartbreak is going to happen. If it's important to you to keep physical limits before marriage (or if you want your kids to do so, when they're minors), there are ways to do your best to avoid that and none of them are intrinsic to courtship. That said, I don't think a person has to *date* lots of people in order to know lots of different people to get an idea of what they want in their future spouse, they just need to get to know lots of people, by being around lots of people, but not all of those people at the same time. This is where the Duggars fall short - their kids don't seem to really ever have much time to talk to anyone of the opposite gender without their parents breathing down their necks. I think Jill got lucky (some of us do) in that the first guy was the right one, but I'm still not convinced that the same goes for Jessa.

I'm 95% sure I've heard that joke before. I was going to call it old and tired but still moderately humorous. I forgot to mention, also the sort of joke that will cause a lot of people I know to laugh hysterically... so in that case, well played, Josh.

Really the how many kids can this salary support is such an individual thing. It all depends on what choices the family makes along the way about lifestyle, as well as where in the country one lives. I think it's probably fair to say that the average relatively decent American salary would be tight if the family had or surpassed 8-10 kids, but 2 vs 4 vs 6 vs 8... it just depends on what standard of living the parents want and/or provide, and definitely the location. I do agree that I will be pretty surprised if more than a very few of the Duggar/Bates kids will procreate at the rate of their parents. I feel like we haven't really heard much about second generation crazy fundie families. I don't really follow anyone other than the Duggars and Bates, but I can't think of hearing about any fundie families where the 15-18 kids are all in their 30s and 40s, their parents being in their 60s or so, and the 15-18 kids having kids of their own, and having that many kids. If that made any sense at all... I hope at some point, as much as I voyeuristically like following the Duggars, that they disappear into relative anonymity at some point, and all the kids can procreate (or not) in peace.

BRILLIANT! I will try this the next time my kids want to play with play dough. I've heard of doing it with honey and peanut butter, but never Play dough and that is an awesome idea.

Well, that sure was an interesting read. News flash to Mr. Seewald: there is a decade (literally) of difference between someone unmarried at 30, and someone getting married at 20. I agree that there are definitely pitfalls to waiting until 30 to get married/have kids, but it's not like the only other option is getting married at 20. Plus, way to throw all the people who just haven't met the right person yet, under the bus. There really is not one "right" way to do any of this, and didactic posts like that are irritating. I'm glad that I met the right guy when I was 20 and was married at 22 and am expecting my last (4th) child now at age 30, but that doesn't mean my friend who's also 30 and hasn't met the right guy yet is wrong, just in a different situation. Also, all of these marry young! vigilantes would really do a better job of convincing me of their case if they were showing ANY signs at all of doing their best to equip their young men and women for a successful life in America as a married 20-21 year old. Sure, I totally concede that you don't *need* a bachelor's degree, depending on what you want to do, but if they showed that Ben was working on a 2-year trade school thing to become (insert whatever you like here - auto mechanic, welder, blue collar worker, etc), their case would come off a lot better. Also? Ben and Jessa might be engaged by this point because he could be done by now.

Oh, I surely hope that those things are editing monkey things, not actually reality. I think that "Watching the Duggars pile in on Anna when her baby is a few hours old" is as boring and painful as clearly someone thought of "Watching Anna receive meals from the Duggars and other friends in the area during the baby's first couple months", but at least the second would leave a more positive impression.

Sequoia is awesome, aside from the "I've never seen a functional adult relationship" - really, editors?! I want that entire sheet of Swiss Roll bark that she's making on my TV right now.

Chris Santos (in response to black kid about cooking and girls being attracted to guys who do so): Why do you think I learned to cook, because my looks are not getting it done! So far the teens have been relatively enjoyable because in general they seem like normal teens who go to normal high schools, not 'high schools' that are really fancy prep schools for fancier colleges, and don't have the stereotypical uppity-ness that can come from that insularity. Brown haired girl on most recent ep can take it down a notch or 50 at any time.

Okay, I actually looked through the last few weeks of Ben's FB page, and it's all selfies (I hate that word but whatever), sanctimonious posts about religious/political topics, or somewhat less sanctimonious Scripture - nothing that I would call remotely interesting. And people follow, and even comment on this stuff. The Internet is dead to me.

As long as they don't use Norman at any point, I think I'm good!

I'd be willing to bet actual money that Jim Bob appears awkward and unsure because the courtship "proposals" are clearly staged and re-enacted for the cameras. I think most people might come off as awkward and unsure if they had already done something in real life, and then had to do it again for the cameras. The rest (me in this group) would sound like they're trying not to laugh the whole time. I'm sorry, you just can't make me believe that the Ben/Jessa in the laundry room thing was how it actually happened. I sure do hope she never watches that episode, or at least if she does, she can view it as the contrived fakery I'd bet that it was.

I've never known anyone to go as far as weekiversary, but newlyweds are often schmaltzy, sentimental, and irritating so I'm willing to give them a pass for this. Also, pickles at a reception is pretty normal compared to some of the stuff people are doing at weddings and receptions these days.

It's possible the accountability partner is also there as a safeguard against accusations. This might be giving them too much credit.... but if Jana went to the evil grocery store by herself and Joe Schmoe saw her there and decided to go to the media alleging that she was hitting on him, it's her word against his. If Jill is there too, she can "account" that it did or didn't happen. Probably it's just there to keep them from accidentally driving to Mexico instead of coming home, although I'm not sure I believe that Jinger and Jessa wouldn't have discussed it at some point. Not sure if Jana would have ever brought it up to Jill but now that Jana and Joy Anna are the assigned pair, I sure do hope those grocery store runs involve conversations about getting the hell out of Dodge.

To be fair(ish) to Ben, he was on the missions trip for how many days? 5-7ish? And posted a handful of pictures? (I don't actually follow him, but did scan over his FB a little yesterday) It's barely possible that he didn't take pictures of him doing actual work during the other 4-6 days plus 23 hours that weren't recorded on his pictures, because he was doing the work and so his hands were not available for a selfie (that sounded terribly wrong... sorry....).

Ben needs to take notes from Jill & Derick and Josh & Anna, who mostly use Instagram to post pictures of them doing completely normal things that the voyeurs of America love (guilty here too), and their cute kids. A quick scan of each shows a few political pictures but the vast majority is, look at our charmed life. Stick to that, Ben.

She may appreciate the chance to have what she considers to be a normal, positive impact on her grandkids, and the price of that is eternal laundry. I'd probably try to find other ways to do it, but who knows, maybe she has and she's just decided this is the best way about it. I hope she gets an extra jewel or 500 in her crown in heaven for this.

Just think, in 10-15 years, he'll probably look back at this and think "God, I was an insufferable punk". Maybe, you know, not in those words exactly. I do semi-hope in that I don't really care for him but have a sense of human decency sort of way, that if/when the TLC gravy train comes in to the station (which surely it will eventually), all this Facebook stuff doesn't come back to haunt him.

There are times and places to discuss the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism and which of the differences actually matter in an eternal perspective, and none of them are on your public Facebook page that you only have because you're sort of dating a member of a family on a reality TV show. Your chances of alienating people and getting into fights are far greater than your chances of actually impacting anyone in what might be a positive way, in an eternal perspective. I shudder to think what I might have said on a public Facebook page when I was 19 and knew everything, but I hope that if I were 19 and had a public Facebook page and some relative level of fame, I might have a publicist or at least run what I post past someone smarter than me. I get the impression that Ben is letting his so-called fame go to his head and fancies himself as a (young, but still) pillar of Christianity with the power to affect the masses.