LadyIrony

It is a wide topic and not one that would be allowed to be discussed here properly. Europeans were also slaves when Europe was invaded by the Moors etc in the Middle East. History isn't kind and civilizations were built on the blood and suffering of others. In the end the Native Americans who were also fighting among themselves to take each others land etc did the same thing the Europeans did. They just lost and the Europeans won. They were beaten by an opponent that was far more advanced than they were. End of story really. And yes the Europeans also fought each other, on a country to country basis as well as sub groups. Again, it is just human nature sadly enough.

I didn't like the film. I am not a Diana or Royal fan but I do have a curiosity all the same. Usually I can enjoy Royal family films but this one was just really depressing and a mess in my opinion.

I'm not surprised. The show has always been flat in terms of chemistry between the cast as well as interesting individuals. I can tell the actors are just acting, waiting for their turn to deliver their lines. Weatherly is boring as Bull, whereas Dinozzo was great. Bull also has nowhere to go as a show. The same thing every week.

Not to mention he's in colour but what he's watching is black and white. Quite jarring given he's meant to be there.

I wouldn't mind seeing an ep where a man is falsely accused. The SVU team go all out to prove him guilty, siding with the "Victim" the whole way through. It ends up being a high profile case (perhaps this man is an actor etc) and even though the SVU team want a prison sentence the "victim" keeps talking monetary compensation and how many media deals she can get etc. In the end it is proven without any doubt at all that the victim was lying. The SVU team especially what's her face who just keeps this show going, were too overzealous and lost track of all reason. The team is fired after the actor sues them all and the Police dept. and the show finally ends. Hallelujah!

Just watched the ep on the Hindenburg. For someone who wants to be a writer John Boy really lacks focus. That was a huge event and yet he can't detach from his emotions so he can write the story. He eventually does but if he is going to be traumatized every time he sees something like that than he is going to have a very hard time as a journalist which is what he seems to be aiming for given the newspaper. I also laughed when his father was trying to tell him about his experience in WW1 and John Boy just discounts the whole thing because this explosion he saw was so big. I would say an artillery barrage would be bigger. But John Boy knows best. And even though his father fixes his printing press, he still was only willing to give him 1/4 page ad for six issues? His father pushed it up to a half page ad for 6 issues knowing his son is a tosser of the highest order.

I wish they would let us know where the group are at times. Thinking about the twister the other ep it makes sense, Kansas, twisters, Wizard of Oz, of course. It is also a little confusing, which group are we focusing on. It seems they are now Dutton's group. We also know the Dutton ranch is in Montana, just looking it up now, there is a fair distance between Oregon and Montana? So it will be interesting to see what happens. I find Sheridan casts people who are way too old for their intended roles and it becomes confusing. Faith Hill is in her mid 50's and looks it, in fact she looks older. Beth on Yellowstone looks older than the 35 she is supposed to be and acts more like a 14 year old. I'd say Sam made a conscious effort to learn more about his enemy and learned by trading with the white men who pass through. His tribe seem to have a business level of civility with the right foreigners who pass by. He also doesn't seem to care about diluting his bloodlines by marrying Elsa. I wondered if he is half caste himself as Elsa seemed very readily accepted which I don't buy. Women did dye their hair back then but they used natural substances which didn't last long. Also would they have bothered with that while on a trail? I think we are meant to believe that Elsa is natural blonde just as we are meant to believe Margaret is 35 years old. It's a little too much disbelief to suspend for me. I don't believe she would talk to her parents like that either nor do I believe her parents would be ok with her sleeping around the way she does. She has just left her new husband now too, how many others will she bed along the way? And why is Sam ok with his new wife just upping and leaving? Not much of a Patriarchy for a time when men supposedly ruled. And you don't think the Immigrants are going to gossip about her when they hit a town? And the cowboys riding with them? Elsa's rep would be worth less than the dirt they trample over. Does Elsa realize that as far as her own culture goes she is not married at all? And yes, how is she going to find Sam again? Especially given Sam's tribe as living on borrowed time and could be wiped out or moved to a reservation at any second. Not to mention outlaws who would see a blonde skinny woman riding solo and see her as easy pickings. I was also hoping they would ditch Elsa but it seems Sheridan thinks people watch for her so she will be around for a while it seems. The question is, will I?! It's a great docu series and given DiCaprio produces it, at times it is more like a movie. In Europe at the time all the land was already owned by Royalty and various nobility. So the peasants got to work the farms but never owned anything. They were always at the mercy of their overlords. It speaks a lot as to why they took such a risk to travel to America and then wanted freedom. It also explains why the Immigrants want the free land. Not only do they lack money they no longer want to work for someone else. I would imagine it would be a drawing a line in the sand moment for them. Slavery was a thing in many cultures and still is in some. Not saying it is a good thing but it happened. Many of those slaves were sold initially by opposing African tribes. So like with the Native Americans who lacked solidarity they were easily defeated by Europeans who had a united goal and culture. Fair enough but Faith is 54 and looks 64 by today's standards. Sheridan has a thing for casting much older people in roles that are meant for people 10-20 years younger. In Yellowstone Beth is meant to be mid 30's yet looks late 40's as per the actresses age. I find it confusing given Beth acts like a child. Costner's character is meant to be mid 50's but looks late 60's plus. I find the poor casting cheapens the two shows. Sam Elliott gets away with it though, he looks rather good for 77.

What gets me about Elsa and Beth is how pretend they are with their tough girl acts. Both women go to pieces at the drop of a hat and both are just highly emotional. Elsa you can at least put down to age but Beth although looking well into her 40's is actually supposed to be mid 30's. Old enough to know better. I think it's too late, Elsa is already one dimensional. If you haven't already seen it I recommend the documentary series The Men Who Built America: Frontier's Men https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6251076/?ref_=nm_flmg_prd_28 I'm not American and always wondered what it was about the ideal of freedom that is important to Americans. The series explained a lot about early American history and as you said it also explains why Dutton won't give up the land. Once it's gone, it's gone for good.

Fair enough. I have just noticed with this show and many others there is this idea that they were innocents who never harmed a fly until pushed by the white man. When they were at war with each other for centuries before hand. I see it as he probably did understand but he is just as stuck as the Natives are. Not sure if James was born in the USA or came over in his youth but either way there is no going back to Europe for him. He just has to push on and life is simple for him as it is for everyone else of the era. There isn't time to ponder rights and wrongs. I do find it odd that Thomas is accepted as readily as he is and the Gypsy woman and Immigrants, they have no questions/curiosity for him? Surely he would be one of the first black men they have ever seen? It is all too simple. Elsa is out of control just like Beth on Yellowstone. She has become boring. She just shoots a buffalo with a pistol on horseback first shot? Sheridan seems to want her to be some kind of superwoman and it is ruining it for me. Yep, but do they think they will just get this land and then start planting seeds? What are they going to do to buy tools, seeds etc? They have lost just about everything they brought with them now. Chances are they will still need to earn some money until they get established and their crops start growing for sale. The way James/McGraw looks at her sometimes it's like "Yeah ok, the writer has made you a wonder woman and we have to believe you are in charge". It was funny the way she carried on she is becoming as tiresome as Beth on Yellowstone.

It is sad because this show had so much potential. Shea is an awesome character and the most true to life one yet we get Elsa. And more Elsa! I am finding her boring and annoying. I will finish the season but am unsure if I will be back for season 2. They are painting her up to be some kind of Deanery's Goddess from Game of Thrones and yet even Deanery's was a terrible leader. Not to mention Elsa does not look capable of the feats she is achieving. Her romances whether with White or Native are from the pages of a pulp romance novel I agree. Her family would have been very religious and social mores of the time would not have been accepting of her sleeping around the way she does let alone in full view of everyone. When she was embracing Sam during the tornado, the two white men nearby would not have tolerated that nor would Sam's people be ok with it. A man of any colour back then also would not be ok with having a horse race against a woman let alone losing to her. I actually suspect Sam let her win anyway. I also grew up pre internet and am fascinated by the Wild West and Sheridan is in pure fantasy land here. While on the subject I doubt a black man would be riding with white men the way Thomas is. For a start, people like to be with their own, especially back then. Thomas seems too easily accepted anywhere he goes, with anyone he encounters. The Gypsy woman and the German immigrants don't even seem curious/amazed by him - Given they come from Europe it is doubtful that they would have ever seen a black man before. No questions for him at all?

I miss the street stories too, although I have noticed that a lot of times they just transfer the grittier side to the Detectives anyway. I think it is odd to have a cop show that lacks the basic end of things. It is a never ending cycle of stories. I am a little surprised with Atwater and his attitude, I don't recall him having much of that at the start. It's like it's been tacked on since BLM for good measure. I am surprised Burgess keeps hanging in there, she has had some of the worst experiences on the show and she doesn't seem to be tough in that unfeeling way that some of the others are. It would be eating her up and I have to question if the job is worth it.

I know! He let his grandpa take all the blame for it as his father believed the fire was caused by the heater being left on! It may have been a combination of both but I think it was almost certainly just from his lit pipe.

Rodeo Barbie (Elsa) is killing this show for me. She is so unauthentic to the era. The sleeveless tops, now she has the Native American top which is also sleeveless and yet non of the Tribes women wear anything similar. When she was riding out wearing it, my mind drifted to Deanery's on Game of Thrones, it's like they are trying to create some kind of Goddess image out of her. And yet Deanery's herself was a terrible leader. Go figure. As another poster mentioned everything comes easy to her. She shoots a buffalo with a pistol first shot, no near miss. She can lasso mustangs. It is just too easy and it cheapens any merit she might possibly have. I wonder if will end up discovering that she actually stepped through a portal from 2022 and ended up in 1883! I find myself more interested in the immigrants, Shea and the men on the show. Elsa is becoming a caricature. I couldn't help but notice she even looks different now. More coiffured and modern. She has lost that little bit of pioneer woman roughness she had, not that she ever looked like she had much. I am not sure how much longer I can deal with the show. Can anyone tell me if the bullet belt Thomas wears around him contain bullets that even fit his rifle? They look too big? @Rorysmom I don't think this show is a great western. The Comanche were the most terrifying tribe around, they were brutal to other Native tribes as well. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2396760/How-Comanche-Indians-butchered-babies-roasted-enemies-alive.html#:~:text=Not only were the Comanche,'Lords of the Plains'.&text=The key to the Comanche's,more skilfully than the Apaches.

I'm pretty sure Elsa would be pushing old maid age already! They got married young back then. The bathing scene looked like a Playboy video! I keep imagining the director saying "Ok, just a little more boob, let the shawl drop down, just a little more.. ok... more.. oh, no nipple huh? Ok well most of your boob is exposed. That will do" Anyone else notice how Elsa looks far more modern now? Her whole demeanor and face has changed. The immigrants seem keen for the free land in Oregon. Maybe they spent all their money shipping unnecessary goods from Europe and spent what was left on wagons to cart it and Shea's guidance?

The CW is up for sale due to it's low ratings not being sustainable so I guess that says a lot for it's policies in their shows. I'm Conservative and interracial relationships don't offend me nor do LGBTIQ ones. For me it's a TV show and one based on a real family in a real time period. So it's about story for me not pushing politics or virtue signalling for the hell of it. How plausible would it be for Mary Ellen to date a black person? How plausible would it be for her to be a lesbian? Would they just tack it on to appease people who won't watch anyway?

It's all very convenient for Elsa isn't it? I would suspect in real life she would be the much protected pretty daughter and that long hair would be covered or cut short to disguise/dull down her looks. I highly doubt that a father or mother from that period would be comfortable with their daughter riding rough with cowboys and now Indians too. I guess the show isn't willing to get that realistic as to show them eating horses which I also suspect is exactly what would have happened.

I came across the other Waltons board first and wanted to comment on the thread "John Boy Mr Obnoxious or Mr Wonderful". I have been watching some eps lately I am in the Obnoxious camp. He is set on becoming a writer which is fine but seems to do little to help around the house/family business. He sells his 10 acres of land to buy a printing press never to get it back! There is an ep where he has the chance to write for a Hollywood director yet turns it down because he doesn't want to do the wrong thing by his friend who currently has that job. Yet his family is poor, earn some money John Boy! All these high ideals. In another ep he starts talking to his long suffering "Daddy*" about Hitler and Nazi's and I had to laugh. His father just sits there quietly obviously bored but politely says he admires his son's convictions. Than runs out of the house to the peace of the mill! I actually find all the kids to be obnoxious in their own way. The mother and grandparents also annoying. Yet I still watch because it beats what is pumped out today. * And what's with a grown man calling his father Daddy? Eeeech!

From the Reacher fandom site https://jack-reacher.fandom.com/wiki/Frances_Neagley So from that it seems she is meant to be strong physically but not tall. I have never read the books but I think the actress they have chosen is a good representation of that sort of character. Unlike a lot of on screen tough women, Sten looks more convincing than most.

With heels on the women match his height, Sten due to her afro actually is taller lol. I think Tom is blissfully unaware of his lack of height! Very bad choice of actor for Reacher, not saying the actor has to be 6ft5 but at least normal tall? In the cast show, the women in heels aren't far of Reacher's height, the actress who plays Roscoe is much taller than I thought she was and I know she is wearing heels but I still thought even in what appears to be platform heels, she would be much shorter. I kind of pegged her as being 5ft 8 at most. Reacher is also wearing heeled boots.

I noticed that too and yet in other scenes she looks much shorter. It never occurred to me that the actor himself isn't that tall! They have done pretty well with the illusion.

It's feeling like Yellowstone all over again. Yellowstone started off compelling and reasonably realistic then went over the top and I always think it's because they never thought about the long game. Seems they are doing the same here. Seems like it. And it's always going to be a man that most father's would rather kill than allow to even look at their daughter. Elsa as Rodeo Barbie was enough but now she gets to openly flirt with an Indian and that is just accepted for 1883? Really? Even Sam's own tribe would be disapproving. And Sam would be ok with having a horse race with a woman? And losing? I don't think so. The Comanche were one of the most violent tribes as well. Even other tribes feared them due to their brutality. I think Sam is a little idealized but the whole series is seen through the eyes of a romantic girl. Looking that way. Or she finds another Indian. She seems to burn through men. Those men were also quick to fight so perhaps they thought they were being set upon by thieves? On a related note, I don't understand why they didn't keep their horses after killing them. Given how much they just lost you would think you would want to take whatever they had. That would be a fun Easter egg. I think it's too late, Elsa has a rep and through the magic of television it is perfectly accepted as normal even though it is set in 1883. A lot *ahem* big ho... Very unrealistic that her parents just seem to accept it. Unless they are planning to reign her in once they reach civilization again. She is becoming tiresome just like Beth in Yellowstone. That would make sense. I find her to be a let down to the series really. For the most part it seems realistic enough but then having her behave like that, I just don't buy it. I am not saying women were weak or useless back then, to the contrary really. But she can just flirt and have sex with guys and that is ok?

I thought that was odd too especially given during the whole season he was clean shaven.

mmm naked Roscoe in high heels only.... .

I kind of buy Neagley being a kick ass bitch but not so much Roscoe. It seems silly to me to start fights everywhere when your actual mission is something very different. Surely making a rep for yourself everywhere you go just makes it harder for yourself in the future? I get that the show is pure fantasy and it's fun. But, wouldn't Reacher want to take a more stealthy approach? Fighting Kliner's son in the cafe was stupid. I thought Roscoe going in fists blazing was funny but also stupid. Tell me they wouldn't both be thrown in prison and killed soon afterwards! I actually ended up forgetting all about The Viking by the end of the show.