bravelittletoaster

Caputo to Bennett: "When I told you to step up I meant it in a Coach Taylor kind of way."

I understand that now [you've voiced the frustration in a way that is clearer for me than I was getting before in the thread], but isn't that more a beef with Hollywood in general than this particular show? I understand wanting to see yourself reflected in the media without necessarily demanding that this particular show do it. I don't mean to be glib, but it's not Carter's job to tell your [or anyone else's] story besides the one he's telling. Now it is absolutely his job not to trash a minority to which he [specifically] doesn't belong, but personally I don't think he's done that here. I get wanting to see your story told, and that's one of the reasons I am particularly enamored of all the choices we have in lesbian characters on tv very recently. I'm as attached to Amy's journey as I am because it rings so true to me, so I can imagine the converse and being frustrated when it doesn't for you. But I also believe [and have for a while] that we're just going to have to tell our own stories more if we want to see them reflected in media. Which is true of any minority [look at how much Shonda Rhimes has done for African American presence in significant roles on network television]. As a Glee survivor and white hot hater of Ryan Murphy, I've been pleasantly surprised all season at how much this gay guy "gets it." Now, obviously, many of us disagree on that point at the end of the season. And I don't think it was the best narrative choice either, but I don't think it was the deal-breaker it has been for some. As a side note that I'm reminded of by this discussion: There's an Atlantic article on OITNB that's causing a bit of a furor this week because the author complains that the show doesn't do a good job of representing the plight of male prisoners. Most of the rebuttal of course has pointed out that it's ridiculous to expect a show about female prisoners to do that. What I think he's really trying to argue [very badly and incoherently] is that male prisoners represent the majority of the prison population, and yet we don't have a prestige tv show doing a nuanced humanizing take on them and that's unfortunate. THAT is a valid point. Criticizing OITNB for not doing that is completely specious. They're not obligated to reflect that other experience, obviously, because it's not the story they're telling. Again I think it's valid to want to see your story and to be frustrated that no one seems to want to tell it, but I don't think Faking It is obligated to do so, nonetheless.

I really recommend checking out this moronic piece the Atlantic ran whinging about the lack of male representation on the show only to watch the author get the shit flamed out of him in the comments section: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/06/why-it-is-a-bad-thing-that-orange-is-the-new-black-leaves-men-out/373682/#comments . On the other hand: http://www.advocate.com/commentary/2014/06/30/op-ed-orange-new-black-proves-be-model-queer-tv

Yeah, same. It's an unpopular bordering on controversial opinion, but while second fiddle is absolutely crucial to the symphony, it's almost always second fiddle for a reason and almost always should stay second fiddle. Had season 1 had some glaring problem, then by all means, fix it. But when your season of television is an unmitigated critical and commercial success [and it was], I do not understand the impulse to tinker with the recipe. I agree with that, too. Episode 9 was a real step up for me and from that point on the season had better momentum moving towards the finale. Didn't hurt that Vause was back, either.

You mean an antonym of dearth, though, right? /Piper moment

Just popping back to say the episode 3 Vauseman sex would not appear to be a flashback as they were filming at the children's psychiatric hospital that day, where they do the chapel and laundry scenes. Also the list of [possibly facetious, possibly spit-balled] season 3 titles that Laura posted to instagram had an early entry called "The Great Hate Fuck." Could be a coincidence...

I saw it somewhere on YouTube right before the premiere, but I don't remember what it was called. It was linked on another forum. Maybe try searching for the show title and b roll? It had a few mild spoilers, I remember, including a dialogue-less scene of Piper in the finale that kind of gave a small plot point away [probably shouldn't say what here.] I just ran across a gif of them laughing over the scene here: https://31.media.tumblr.com/017c70221854b4873022f377e608764a/tumblr_n83hfwPSKD1s5tg8wo1_500.gif Someone asked Laura about it in an interview and she laughed about it too. Pointed out that all Natasha did was lower her voice and pull her shirt out. Heh.

Prepon and Biggs were paired for media day and were the day's MVPs in terms of entertaining interviews [iMO]. Here's a good example of their rapport as they discuss Team Alex vs. Team Larry: http://www.shewired.com/television/2014/06/26/orange-new-blacks-laura-prepon-jason-biggs-talk-piperalex-chemistry-lesbian?page=0%2C0

Everyone's a dude to me. Considering Kerman has worked very hard to speak publicly about prison reform, testify before Congress on the matter, and write wherever someone will give her a forum on it, I just have a hard time calling her selfish. She could just sit at home and count her money if she wanted. It's been a year since I read the book, but I don't remember her talking about how great she is. I often thought she was pretty great, though. I also thought, "there, but for the grace of God, go I." It's just a really interesting account of someone's unusual firsthand experience. I don't understand why coming from a decent family and going to a good school would be a dealbreaker for anyone else in appreciating that story any more than the lack of those things would, personally.

Not that this is the season 1 vs. season 2 vs. season 3 thread, but I do expect a bit of a return to form in season 3. Vause will be back full time and I think that will bring more focus back to Piper. Love her or hate her, she's the fulcrum of this teeter totter. It just doesn't work as well for me without her at the center of it all. Also I think next year's "big bad" will go back to being the prison/establishment a bit more, rather than a one-off villain, so the main source of tension will feel [to me] a little less out of left field.

I think I love Piper because of her flaws, not despite them [the same reason I've loved Tony Soprano, through closed fingers, and House [god, yes, love House] and Walter White [though I hated him at times too]. It just bothers me as a feminist to perceive a subtle difference in how much allowance the culture affords a female protagonist on the likability scale. But I also felt like that scene with Red this season where Red counsels Piper not to feel guilty about selfishness [fuck them....you can't survive in here without being selfish] was kind of a direct address to viewers. One that you could practically hear sailing over thousands of heads at once.

It interests me that the most common critique I see of Piper Chapman is that she's "self-centered," and yet as a fan of other prestige dramas with problematic protagonists or outright anti-heroes who also are male, I feel like that's not part of the conversation. Or as much a part of it anyhow. You can't take a step without tripping over someone complaining about how self-centered Piper is, but I just don't feel like I run into that as much in re: the equally self-centered [and in some cases homicidal] protagonists of Mad Men, Breaking Bad, the Sopranos, The Walking Dead et al. Somehow I think men wear self-serving better. I mean, not in my estimation, but in the general population . Has anyone else noticed that? Is it only women who aren't allowed to look out for #1?

Can we agree it was kind of ironic that you were calling them out for lack of attention, though? :)

I dunno, I liked her, related to her and found it to be very interesting. It seems to me that there are a lot of people who project their class issues onto both real Piper and fictional Piper. I also know several people who either sort of know her or have a friend who does, so maybe the fact that she's loosely in my orbit makes me feel more akin to her. All I know is a lot more people care about the issue of women in prison and the prison industrial complex now than they did before they heard her story. Also it's like, 8 bucks, dude.

MSN did an interview with Uzo and Taylor about season 2: http://entertainment.ca.msn.com/tv/a-darker-shade-of-orange On filming Suzanne's knock-out punch of Piper: Uzo on Suzanne's season 2 development: And Taylor on Piper cutting ties with Larry:

Because that was a flashback to what happened 10 years ago, not something that happened in real time, @SoWindsor. [or were you joking?]

TV Line talks to cast members about their most memorable scenes / moments shooting season 2: http://tvline.com/2014/06/25/orange-is-the-new-black-season-2-photos-best-moments/ and Laura Prepon sat down with Cosmo: http://www.cosmopolitan.com/celebrity/exclusive/orange-is-the-new-black-laura-prepon-interview?src=rss Talks a bit about dating [or more to the point not dating] & here are the OITNB relevant parts:

Man, y'all need to watch A League of Their Own. Love that movie.

The B roll from them filming that scene was funny because Taylor was losing her shit at Natasha's impression, and even in the final cut it looks like she was barely holding it together.

Two pretty solid pieces by Paste: http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2014/06/orange-is-the-new-norm-variations-on-the-phenomena.html and the Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act-four/wp/2014/06/26/orange-is-the-new-black-and-the-meaning-of-love/ about the depiction of the "Phenomenal Woman" and love on the show, respectively. Oh, and they did a new season 2 trailer that's more Piper oriented: [which intrigues me in re: Netflix's research and motivations...]

Yes, thanks for this. I read the book after I watched season 1, and for all Jenji's talk about how they were going to "get away from the book" this season I was surprised how much of it still factored. Piper's grandmother's death in the book was one of the most affecting parts of it for me, and how shattered she was to have missed it, and how it was such a turning point for her. In the book it was more about taking responsibility for her inability to be there, and how it really helped drive home to her the consequences of her actions. In the show it represented a different turning point, I think, but then Chapman has developed into a much different person from Kerman. But even having said that, I still feel like the book really informs my take on the show.

I definitely see plenty of people air their discontent with Piper and/or Alex on the interwebs, but I think it's a fairly vocal minority. Because the internet lost its collective shit when Buzzfeed broke the news about Prepon's departure and Netflix seemed to be peeing itself for a few months not knowing how to handle it. So, selfishly as a Vauseman fan I'm really glad they seem to have got the message. The preponderance [ha] of Laura's press appearances in the season 2 rollout and in preliminary discussions of season 3 suggest to me that Netflix, with all its available metrics that we don't have, are confident in her popularity across the board.

According to Entertainment Weekly, Jason Biggs said at OITNB's media day last week that he doesn't know what his involvement will be next season, if at all, and he hasn't filmed yet [they've already done three episodes]. Also according to Paste, Laura Prepon hinted that she'd already filmed a steamy sex scene with Taylor in the first three eps. Maybe she doesn't take her re-incarceration as badly as I thought she would. Or it could be a flashback.

There's another spoiler thread I started a while back. Could a mod merge these maybe? please?

I thought last season was meant to begin in Sept/October 2012, so now in the show's world it's March-ish 2013? Candy Crush was a thing then, tho it's less likely Piper would be into it. Although real Piper was such an early adopter that she has the Twitter handle @Piper, so I guess one could fanwank that Chapman would be on the early cusp of the Candy Crush phenomenon.