SleepDeprived

Yeah, I just read it myself. Not a lot happened. Don't know yet how disappointed in my self-control I am that I caved and subscribed to the Arrow 2.5 comics. We'll see how it goes but, at this point, I got far, far more excited for season 3 by that sexy-hot 3-second near-kiss between Oliver and Felicity, plus Thea breaking a jar with a sword than anything from the comics. A new Brother Blood and Roy in peril just isn't that interesting to me, I guess. On the spoilers about Laurel, possibly, becoming badass or fascinating enough that I don't automatically check my phone whenever she comes on screen, or end up taking a huge swig of my wine glass?

Well, the first booklet of the Arrow S2.5 comics is out. I've read it since, yes, I caved and subscribed, even though the last time I read a comic book was more than 10 years ago. Because I have a mighty need to find out what happened in the 7-8 months after Slade (yeah, I sort of hate myself for crumbling to the obvious ploys of DC to get more of my money--is buying the Blu-ray/DVDs not enough for you, WB/DC/CW???!!!). I was surprised by how short it was. I remember comics being far longer than this one? Is this why it's a digital release and they compile it later on into a physical copy after 3 digital issues? Anyway, spoilers ahoy! The artwork is not really that impressive, though. It's... serviceable, I guess. But I was a little amused by the Team Arrow banter, which is close to how the show feels. But nothing kinda happened much? Eh. We'll see how this 2.5 comic goes in the next few weeks, I suppose.

Hmmm... So, that might explain how EBR was hanging out with Karl Yune in between takes. Maseo's going to be alive and helping out Oliver in the present? I hope Katana's going to be around with Maseo in the present, too. If only to further show Oliver that he can have a private life while, also, being a badass vigilanteing hero. Because, damn it, if they kill off Katana, in the past, for Maseo's (and added to Oliver's) manpain then I will cut a bitch. Shado's death left a very bad taste in my mouth; and may a colony of bed bugs infest that writer's room if they subject Katana to that, too.

Gosh, Emily Bett. How are you so adorable? I think I like the former illegal hacker/Anonymous-type scenario for Felicity's backstory best. The show can certainly find creative ways to tie that in to her conspicuously-titled centric episode or, if DC had given them permission, to have Barbara Gordon be, somehow, her mentor/friend from MIT. On the other hand, with all the talk on possible illegal activities that Felicity might've been involved in before becoming a regular IT tech in QC, I've been wondering if the show might try to find a way to connect her flashbacks, Vegas or Mama Smoak, with Roulette since I'm pretty sure Roulette should be one of the characters given the okay to use in the DC-TV 'verse. Especially since is coming on to the show. I know they have and I'm excited about that, but I wouldn't say no to a mob-type episode with Roulette or any of the other organized crime families of DC where Team Arrow goes to Vegas. I just really want a Team Arrow goes to Vegas episode. Either way, "The Secret Origins of Felicity Smoak" is definitely one of my most anticipated plot threads for S3. She's just a really fascinating character, to me.

Oh, but I'm going to have to vehemently disagree with this. It is, probably, not small. Or, at least, every fanfic I've ever read tells me it really isn't. Although, sure, size doesn't matter, it's how you use it, yadda, yadda. But it's Oliver Queen. It matters. Clearly, my maturity level is at an all-time low this early morning, if this is all I can muster to add to this discussion. I'm so sorry. I'll see myself out.

Ra's al Ghul!!! Let's hope his intentions and drive that leads him and the LoA to clash against Oliver and Team Arrow is much more intricately planned and evenly-executed than Deathstroke's turned out to be. Comic-con, man. So. Much. Excitement! I love this time of year. But, wow, at SA's declaration in that interview. I mean, that's some major stuff for a lot of people. If that is, indeed, the plan and the writers are really following through with Oliver/Felicity throughout S3 (or beyond) then: But, really, perhaps this might calm the shipping arguments some. Also, maybe, the writers might ease off on teasing the romantic aspects of the show and write tighter, more involved action/big bad/mystery storylines. Let's not jump to conclusions. They have repeatedly said that they want Caity back as much as possible this season and the writers seem to love her. There's still a chance that Sara will stay as our Canary. Perhaps, Laurel will have a different hero direction that Sara inspires her to become. I'm not giving up hope (it lies eternal in the human breast).

Quandary. I really like Roy's new costume--it looks seriously badass--but way to skip over all his training and "island" hurdles to become a hero so fast, show. Before Roy went into a coma, he could barely hit the side of a target. After his coma, during the tunnel battle, he was mostly doing close quarter arrow-ing of Slade's army. Is 6-7 months enough for him to become Arsenal-proficient with a bow and arrow? I do wonder where he/Team Arrow got the money to spring for his all-leather custom-made ensemble. Oliver's broke and I doubt Roy's busboy tips could cover all that. Maybe he's on a payment plan with whoever tailors all these costumes? On another note, I'm getting really excited about "the secret origins of Felicity Smoak". I pretty much am all for any and all things Felicity because, well, fave. No matter what the writers throw at me about her past, I feel like I'll actually still know who present-day Felicity is. Her character is one of the very few that has been written remarkably consistent, so far. It would be really fucking awesome to see how she became the person she is, though. I like getting to taste the layers that built the delectable tower cake (sorry, food on my mind--still savoring memories of that truffle cake). Finding out if her father or mother were/are villains won't change who she is now. I will laugh while crying, however, if Felicity's mom turns out to be Arrow's spin on Roulette. I also hope that since Felicity's not a natural blonde, they find a great wig for EBR's flashbacks like they did for ST during Moira's flashback. On the Black Canary spoilers, just blergh. There is a dearth of fucks I have to give about Laurel. I wish I have even a smidgen so my viewing experience might improve. I am so sorry about what they might have in plan for Sara to transition Laurel, though. Sara will always be BC in my mind. At least, they modeled that BC collectible action figure after her. I'll just cling to the notion that S3 might be the writer's final attempt at trying to mold Laurel into BC and that, should it fail, they'll finally move the fuck on.

So, Laurel is Voldemort? According to Urban Dictionary, 'she-who-must-not-be-named' means someone "whose name bespeaks evil to such an extent that it should not be spoken aloud." Fitting nickname, I guess, judging by the vitriol that even a whiff of her existence incites. Hee. Well, who is really checking for Laurel news, anyway? The media, usually, have little to no interest in asking the producers anything related to her and when they do ask, it has to do with Sara's status, as well. So she's best left ignored and glossed over (similar to how I feel about her scenes). Berlanti has always seemed more partial towards Felicity and Oliver/Felicity than the other EPs, I think. Guggenheim, recently, has been talking more about it, as well. From interviews, it's Kriesberg who seems to not want to let go of the Laurel of it all. Ditto. I pretty much love/like most of the women on the show. I only had problems with Isabel (did not live up to my expectations), China White (was a bit of a boring villain), Amanda Waller (such a disappointment), and Laurel (*sigh*). Count me in as one who doesn't think Sara's going to die, in spite of the doom her name as the episode title seems to suggest. Maybe, like @BkWurm1 suggests, they'll finally reveal her name is Sara Dinah Lance. And, like most have said, the episode will probably delve into her LoA background and I'd even hazard a guess that the villain is a former LoA member that Sara has been tasked to dispatch. Maybe Ra's is testing her newfound loyalty to the League by sending her back to SC for an assassination. I just really doubt that they would kill off Sara so early, and not even during November Sweeps, at that! As far as Vertigo 2.0's new drug, maybe it's Felicity that gets dosed. And, like most tv-drug side effects, she promptly forgets about events before, including when Oliver asks her out. She'll be oblivious about Oliver wishing to be with her, and Oliver can continue manpain-ing about his life that prevents him from being with people he really cares about (never mind that it's the same life that Felicity leads). Really, though, we only have partial information on 2 episodes. There's still 21 others where Felicity, Diggle, and Thea can get their backstory/centric episodes. I'm optimistic that my faves will have their time in the sun, especially since both Felicity and Diggle will, now, have ties to the official Green Arrow comics. That tells me that their parent company, DC, has become pretty damn invested in those two, as well.

I just got home and, on a whim, decided to check out the thread before going to sleep... Holy shit. No lie, I might've gotten slightly teary-eyed. Because that looks a lot like Caity Lotz. Although the graininess of the photo could mean it might be someone else under that wig and mask? But I want it to be CL really badly. Anyone have any idea where Caity might be right now? Could she be anywhere other than Vancouver? If it really is her then hell yeah! Please let this mean that she'll be sticking around as our BC. Praying to all the dieties right now.

So, I guess that rules out the Hong Kong theory. But not @Morrigan2575 's theory of Vertigo 2.0 running his drug business in a boxing ring. So, let's go with that one! Anything other than the introduction of WildCat to facilitate BC 2.0 for the one that got the hand-me-down leather jacket with, apparently, magical transformative powers. Come to think of it. Perhaps, Vertigo 2.0 uses the boxing matches as a front for his business because (a) those spectators would surely lose their willpower/control over how much they gamble for the fights leading to a lot more money for the house and (b) the fighters, themselves, may be drugged to make them go all-out and kill each other during their matches.

Heeeyyyy... Is that a boxing ring? Are they bringing in Wildcat/Ted Grant to jump-start/justify Laurel's training for her inexplicable turn to vigilantism since bestest lawyer evar wasn't working out for her? Please let me be wrong. Do. Not. Want. I wonder if one of the targeted victims will be Ray Palmer, and that's how he gets Smoaked and Team Arrow meets him? Wasn't Dwarfstar, one of The Atom's enemies, a serial killer? Maybe he's the villain in this episode?

Dude. @apinknightmare wrote that. She's amazeballs. And, yep, it really is great and captures the voices of the characters so well. Dittoing the recs for SmoakandArrow's AU fics, as well, as any and everything written by sarcastic_fina but be warned that lots of tissues might be necessary for a few of her works.

Good Lord, that synopsis spoiler... My heart was racing so fast, it felt like I had been running on the treadmill. Gonna count that as cardio exercise. Thanks, CW Press people! But now that I've calmed down some, I think that I'm getting a little scared about how the writers will handle Oliver and Felicity's relationship. Please don't fuck up my ship. We, the audience, already know Oliver has 'I love you' feelings for Felicity. Or, at least, I do. Because (and I've stated this before) no one can convince me that those were not legit heart-eyes he was sporting at the beach during "Unthinkable". Seriously, that's almost exactly how my brother-in-law was looking at my sister when they got married on a beach, except there were actual tears in his eyes, afterwards. But I don't actually want Oliver to ask Felicity out and for her to say yes? I'm hoping that the way it goes down is that Oliver finally feels like he's in a place where he's "free" to ask Felicity out on a date but, before he can, The Count 2.0 crashes the party and Team Arrow has to deal with him, first. Later on, as he's reconsidering things about Felicity, because the city still needs The Arrow, he finds out that Felicity is actually already dating, or had been asked out on a date by, Ray. Sorry, bro, you were too fucking slow. Cue manpain and longing/angsty-frustrated feelings that are sublimated toward shirtless and sweaty (most important part) aggressive salmon laddering and beating up the training dummy. Through all these, Diggle better be smirking and sassing at Oliver. I expect at least one "you're an idiot" heart-to-heart between Oliver and Diggle. I am just so not in favor of Felicity receiving ver. 2.0 of "because of the life that I lead". Not after the "I love you" maybe-a-ruse-maybe-not debacle. I would rather Oliver be left as the one pining and Felicity being somewhat oblivious about his feelings/determined to move on that he's the one that has to work at getting her to really believe he's in love with her. All this teasing! I'm going to need to stock up on alcohol and ice cream come October.

Felicity's dad shows up? Cool. Felicity's mom shows up or, better yet, Team Arrow goes to Vegas and meets Felicity's mom? Wicked cool. I don't mind whichever of her parental unit shows up so long as they actually do this season. I want a Felicity-centric storyline/character-enriching backstory reveal already, damn it! Not just tidbits, please. I'll be pissed if she gets pushed to the background again to devote more time to someone else's messy storyline attempts at being relevant.

Classical conditioning by the Arrow writers. I get it. And thank you for the funny breakdown of the probability of Oliver banging any woman within his periphery, @quarks. But I guess I'll join as the naive outliers then, since I just don't see Waller sleeping with Oliver. Oliver has only slept with women who wanted to sleep with him, too. From Waller's perspective, there wouldn't really be anything that she can gain from sleeping with flashback-Oliver other than a hot body to warm her sheets. She already has all the power in their Hong Kong flashback relationship. And she just doesn't strike me as someone who will have liaisons with 'the help'. She, also, seems to only care for her red Louboutins and blowing things or people up all the damn time so I don't think a tumble in the sheets with Oliver is anything she'd be interested in, if it's unrelated to her agenda. I'm also taking back my speculation that Oliver will sleep with Katana since I forgot that she'll be married to a very much alive Maseo, flashback-time-wise. Pre-island Oliver might not be too bothered about sleeping with a married woman but I'd like to think that post-year-2-island Oliver has grown a bit and won't be the douchebag that sleeps with his new mentor's wife. Ah, hiatus. When we discuss the probabilities of Oliver's Dickventures of Future Past.

Be honest, JayKay. How much giggling to yourself did you do when you thought that pun up? I snorted IRL. Thanks. I like being optimistic about things. So, while I haven't been overly impressed with what I've seen of Routh's previous appearances (he was fine on Pilgrim but we must never talk about that Superman flick he did), I'm still willing to give the dude a chance to win me over with his Ray Palmer. I did it with Grant's Barry Allen, in spite of my loathing of all things Glee and my eternal love for Wally West, and he managed to be an adorable enough character that I'll be checking out The Flash this fall. I doubt they will have Ray as The Atom just yet but rather as in-the-process-of-becoming-The Atom. Which is why his work at QC's rebuilt Applied Sciences division will be "shrouded in mystery". Because (please correct me if I'm wrong comics experts) his shrinking "power" is not strictly a superpower, right? It's an ability he's able to do due to some mumbo-jumbo comic-based science-y gadget/molecular make-up. Much like how Sara has a sonic device as a stand-in for BC's supersonic scream, I'm thinking they will ground the shrink/grow ability to comic-book-science (the galactically distant cousin of real world science) and use gadgets, instead. And he probably wouldn't be doing a lot of shrinking/growing until late into his 14-episode contract, after which he can exit stage right. He can then come back for future guest spots. So, technically, Arrow can continue on with their no actual superpowers mantra... Except for the inevitable Flash crossovers, of course. Speaking of inevitable, why do most think it is set in stone that Oliver will end up sleeping with Waller? I can see him hooking-up with Katana, in the flashbacks, but Waller? Yes, I know he was a man-slut and I wouldn't put it past him to want to sleep with her (because she's hot) but why would Waller sleep with him? The show's Amanda Waller is pretty ruthless and thinks everyone can be used as a pawn. She has shown zero regard for the lives/feelings of others if it conflicts with her agenda. What would compel a power-driven, arrogant woman to sleep with a lowly subordinate she intends to use for nefarious purposes in Hong Kong? His body? Her loneliness? Seduction to bend him to her will? I can't think of any non-ridiculous scenario where The Wall (even if she is the New52 version) would actively want to sleep with flashback-grunge-haired-Oliver Queen. Also, I apologize for this slight OT, but, IMO, I think Fox's Quicksilver is actually the one who cashed in on Flash's popularity/character because that was not Pietro's personality in that movie, but more of Wally West's. Also, I have doubts of the success of the Ant Man movie for Marvel. Because, why? A movie about that dude?

So, that Smoaked gifset all over Tumblr is perhaps the truthiest truth, then. Felicity is vigilante catnip. Her milkshake just brings all the superheroes (and Nyssa) to her yard. Joining the chorus of "hmmm"s at Brandon Routh being cast as Ray Palmer. From what I can remember from the JLU DCAU series, I liked The Atom just fine. He'll probably do well as Oliver's rival since he's both charming and extremely intelligent. This will definitely make it really hard for Oliver to take back QC. However, Routh is not who I expected to be Felicity's supposed love interest. As pretty as Routh is, I was kinda envisioning someone with a lot more sex appeal, who can knock a woman, that's around ridiculously buff, hot men who are shirtless almost 24/7, right off her feet. But if they go more of the Barry route of a charming and sweet intellectual (who has great abs, because scientists go to the gym, too) then I can definitely see Felicity, maybe, falling for him. I sort of am wondering if the fact that it was extreme bomber Felicity Smoak who planned the nuking of the old QC Applied Sciences building might cause a bit of hilarious friction between the two. Though, people definitely have to start being a lot more careful typing out Ray and Roy, once the season starts. Then again, one's a genius and the other is decidely not, so that should help the confusion a lot. Heh. Getting quite a bit excited for S3 now. But this is mostly attributable to Peter Stormare getting cast. I can't wait to see him as a villain, although I was hoping, from the spoilers, that he would be more like Scarecrow than Vertigo 2.0. I don't. And I will not be happy, if he does, regardless of whether or not his character gets a really great reception. This show is about Arrow and his journey to become a superhero. This is not the Justice League live version but a retelling of Oliver Queen's exploits. Sara's journey as Black Canary was fine-ish since she is very much linked to Oliver's history. They can give Ray Palmer his own show if they want the origin story of The Atom.

Well, thanks for subjecting yourself to doing those, BkWurm1. I think I'll just stick to the forced, awkward interactions the show subjects me to during the episodes and not some fan's revisionist edit of Laurel and Oliver's history--as in those are bygone days that should stay in the past and, if it must be revisited, should be ended with a definite finality. Laurel and Oliver as friends could be good. As lovers again? Stretches credulity and my patience. Plus, the anti-chemistry blackhole is not something I would willingly wish to be subjected to ever again. On the other hand, good Lord, that 101 Reasons video was cute! Like, IMO, Scully and Mulder are legit the most chemistry-filled pairing in the history of ever (and it's still going strong 21 years later!) but Oliver and Felicity are seriously vying for that top spot in my heart. They give me the warm fuzzies. If I had no idea what Arrow was about, that video would've probably made me wonder if it was a romance-driven show starring Oliver as the lost, battle-weary hero and Felicity as the bright, tenacious heroine who both finally find that missing puzzle piece in each other. Wow. So romantic. Such fanfic! ... This hiatus is starting to break me.

I enjoy Helena. I found her interesting, even at the peak of her batshit insanity. She reminds me of Faith, on Buffy, so I'd be down for an Oliver/Helena relationship that might be similar to Faith and Angel's. The quiet moment between them at the end of "Birds of Prey" showed a vulnerability in Helena that I would be keen to see the show explore. And I imagine it would be very entertaining to see how Felicity and Diggle would interact with her if Oliver ever brings her in to their new Arrow lair. Lots of sassing and snarking at each other, I bet. How would she return, though? Wasn't she set to go to trial for all the crime she committed? Could Waller read her in to the Suicide Squad, maybe?

I don't mean to derail the discussions but is anyone else a little bit bothered by the thread title? Like, may we ask the mods to please edit it to end full-stop at That Arrow was Poisoned!:The Bitterness Thread and remove the "hate on..." parts? I kinda think the stuff in parenthesis implies petulant, childish, or unfounded hateration for certain characters/developments (or lack of) when the majority of the critiques have actually been very well-reasoned and politely discussed. The thread title just kind of throws me off a little and, initially, made me hesitant to even come in and read. It's fine if editing is unnecessary, though. It might just be me being weird about the word play.

Not gonna lie, that jacket bequeathing scene took me straight out of the scene precisely because I saw KC, the actress, rather than Laurel, the character, on my screen. The shit-eating grin was just so out of context to what the scene was about. Remove the BC-mantle-passing connotations, which shouldn't have even entered Laurel's mind at the time that her sister was leaving her whole family again for parts unknown with shady ass people, and it's a leather jacket that Sara is giving to her as a remembrance of sorts. The moment was supposed to be bittersweet or downright melancholy. Instead, we got a gleeful don't-let-the-door-hit-you-on-your-way-out-I-am-so-going-to-be-BC-now reaction from KC. Lawd. I actually don't hate Laurel, despite what the thread title suggests. I'm indifferent to her journey. I don't even realize it, until others point it out, whenever she's not in an episode. I wish I could like her. But the acting and characterization is just so ridiculous. Not even ridiculous-good-cheesy but ridiculous-bad. There is just something very superficial about KC's grasp of Laurel's character, which is largely the writing's fault but partly hers as an actress who's supposed to try and interpret what is written and bridge the gaps, that is coming across in her acting and interviews. I hope she gets better at portraying a Laurel I might be able to muster a smidgen of interest in, come S3 (I'm resigned to her being on the show for the foreseeable future), but I'm not holding my breath.

It's funny that this is the sentiment I've heard (from a few of my male friends who watch and my 74-year-old Dad who texted me yesterday to ask if they end up together in the comics--he was really sad when I told him that they're not even in the same comic title) and read about in so many after-finale comments. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that the finale was partly the writers' way of testing the waters for really pursuing an Oliver/Felicity romance. Before the finale, moments between Oliver and Felicity had, occasionally, been called ship-pandering. I saw it as character relationship development but that's neither here nor there. I find that some people (particularly male viewers) have such a strong aversion to any form of shipping that since Olicity was the popular ship in the media and the fandom, a lot of them were so resistant to acknowledging anything else between Oliver and Felicity as other than her just crushing on him or her being into him while he's ambivalent. It's like that mansion scene really opened the eyes of some viewers that Oliver might be harboring deeper feelings for Felicity, in spite of it turning out to be a ruse. Because that beach scene follow-up certainly suggested not everything he said was a lie. They are actually a legitimate possible romantic relationship that the show should pursue... But somewhere down the line. Everyone seems to want the slow burn for them. And, so far, the writers have handled their relationship really well. It helps that Amell and Rickards just continue to be pretty amazing together. Here's hoping they continue to progress nicely, with minimal angst/soapy fuckery, in the coming seasons. BTW, I know it's been mentioned before but I'm still marveling at the fact that the Oliver and Felicity scenes in the finale were given their own romantic, soft piano tinkling score. I'm not going to say it made me squee a little (it totally did) since it sort of reminded me of Buffy and Angel having a special theme (composed by the awesome Christophe Beck).

I understood about 30% of what you're talking about, GirlWednesday. But thank you for trying to make sense of the financial contrivance to make the Queens poor plot point. The only thing I can contribute to your musings is regarding Stellmoor International, the company that Isabel worked for. In the comics, Stellmoor International/Industries was founded by Simon Lacroix, also known as Komodo, who has a vendetta against Oliver Queen. So, even if Stellmoor becomes a player in Season 3, I highly doubt they would be portrayed as a good guy company but rather as evil central. I don't think they would help Oliver get his CEO position or Queen Consolidated back. Malcolm Merlyn, on the other hand, being the shrewd businessman that he is, could, hypothetically, get an in with Stellmoor. And with Thea as his apprentice then, perhaps, we might see Thea Dearden Queen-Merlyn (boy, what a mouthful!) heading up QC some day.

I think you're all pretty much on the nose regarding Oliver and Felicity's headspace when it comes to their feelings for each other. EBR (bless this lady), who always sounds like she really understands her character, has a similar take on it:

I'm joining this party and I don't think I even need to wear my shipper glasses to see the absolute sincerity in Oliver's words, facial expressions, and body language at the mansion. I, now, think Felicity had a general knowledge of what the ruse to trick Slade would be (that she would need to be endangered to get close enough to stab Slade with the Miracure) but that she was surprised (and I think Oliver was, too) at how real everything felt. It's been established that Oliver is a terrible liar, and to a certain extent so is Felicity. They're both not so good at cover stories. The fact that they were able to sell that scene so well tells me how close to the truth it really might be. Additionally, Oliver could have absolutely stopped at "He took the wrong woman" and it still would have done the trick. But he went that extra mile to say "I love you" with that face he gets in one-on-ones with Felicity. I mean, it's not like Slade's tiny spy cameras are in HD to capture the minutiae of their expressions. The "Do you understand?" to me seemed like Oliver giving Felicity an out on whether or not she would willingly put herself in harm's way to cure Slade, which she accepts with a resolute "Yes". She's always been firm about the fact that she chose to join Oliver's crusade. And they are equals on this team that the decision is left to her. I'm still trying to completely process the beach scene. But I've been looking at the gifs on Tumblr (and there are, oh, so many) and anyone who tells me that those were not legit heart-eyes that Oliver was sporting while gazing at Felicity would receive directions to the nearest LensCrafters location.