statsgirl

I'm going to think it over but yeah, probably I'll be back. He had had the mirakuru for the longest. The others had just got it a few months ago. She didn't know that they could. No one had tried it before. Besides, she likes to blow things up. A lot. I wonder what happened to the Suicide Squad after she surrendered. I was pretty pissed off when I found out it was just a fake-out, especially since they can say that he really loves Laurel after all and was just saying that so Slade wouldn't kill her. But in the end scene on the island, I think Amell played it that it was true, Oliver does have those feelings for Felicity but he's still very far from being able to go there. There was a comfort in being able to say it under the guise of it being a fake-out. On the other hand, I could be as delusional as the Laurel/Oliver shippers.

There was lots of good stuff in this episode, I thought. Pretty much everything except the Laurel anvils. Nyssa was awesome. She and Sara need their own show, or at least to be recurring on Arrow. The solution to the Slade problem actually was kind of clever. Felicity told Oliver to out-think Slade, and he did. I think Oliver's "Slade took the wrong woman, I love you." was kind of nasty to Olicity shippers but the end scene on the island makes me think that Olicity may be the end game after all, and it's way too soon for it anyway. I loved that Felicity was the one to get the cure into Slade after all, and then Oliver took him down while Diggle took care of ARGUS. Way to handle the teamwork, guys! I agree though, the ARGUS prison is not going to hold Slade but that's just potential for the future too. I understand why Thea went with Malcolm. Everyone else in her life has been lying to her -- Moira, Oliver, Roy -- so why not go with the one guy who is telling her the truth? ETA: Sakura, Sara didn't hand over her Canary costume to Laurel, she handed over the black leather jacket she wears with civvies. It's like Oliver telling Felicity she's the woman he loves, it teases the people who want it, and doesn't take a stand one way or the other.

Was your mother by any chance of the generation that fainted at a Beatles appearance? Or even earlier for a bobby socked Frank Sinatra?

For a long time, it was thought that only boys or men were interested in adventure stories so they were all that mattered. There were no women or only minor ones in Arthur Conan Doyle's The Lost World, Jules Verne's Journey to the Centre of the Earth or Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea, or Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea.or James Hilton's Lost Horizon. They were manly men and women were either bit players or non-existent.* Meanwhile Ethel M. Dell was writing books about women going to the Sahara and getting kidnapped by dashing sheiks and Lady Hester Stanhope had a hundred years earlier donned the clothes of a Turkish man to travel the Arab world. So the guys were dead wrong. But it's taken a while for the adventure book and comic book world to catch up and realize that women want to be in on the adventure too, although you'd never know it from some DiD fans, so when the books of Doyle or Verne are made into movies or TV shows now, they create substantial female characters for the female audience. However, while there are strong female heros, that are also a lot of DiDs. *My favorite example of missing the point is James Hilton's Random Harvest about a man who fights in WWI, has a head injury and loses his memory and marries a woman, then re-gains his memory completely forgetting the intervening years. She finds him and becomes his secretary and has to watch him getting engaged to another woman, completely unaware that he had once been married to her. In the book, the woman is barely mentioned it's all about his feelings and his life but if you ever see the movie with Greer Garson and Ronald Colman, it's clear that to have it told from her point of view makes for a much better story.

I don't know about what other people have done but I've tweeted him a few times about why Laurel was a problem for me, emphasizing what's in the writing so that he doesn't think I'm a Laurel hater (e.g. Oliver has been lying to Laurel for 7 years but she give a speech where she says she knows him as well as she knows her own name; am I supposed to believe her or think she's delusional?). I'm surprised he listened though.

Maybe Slade's men are trying to break through the ARGUS blockade? None of them are thinking well. Scary thought" what if they really believe they are showing Laurel in a good light, the Arrow consort light? If it's true that Laurel is the one that Slade kidnaps because she's the one "Oliver loves the most" (blech), I'm going to need some serious Oliver/Felicity "I thought you were dead/ I wouldn't let you down" moments to counteract the nausea.

I agree, but I wonder if the difference is in quantity and quality of what they work out. Caity said that she and Stephen talked about how they could justify the relationship between Oliver and Sara when she arrives in Starling City. I can see them doing that, creating a backstory and then each going off to work on how their characters would react given that, while KC has said that she spends a lot of time with PB and later AK and CL going through her character's motivations and how she would react in a given situation. It's that depth of consultation that makes her scenes with PB better than with other characters.

Laurendrew, I think that's the level you have to work on to see Oliver and Laurel as Made For Each Other. I think the key word there is needing. I've listened to a few interviews and Q&As with Katie Cassidy and this is seems to be a theme, that she needs someone to work with her and help her fill out her character's motivation and reactions, and then when she's got it, she hangs on to it in character. The others seem to work things out on their own or with minimal help from the other cast members. For example, look at what EBR did the first time she appeared as Felicity. She played it a little daffy, cocked her head when Oliver said his coffee shop was in a rough area of town, and got possibly the first unconscious smile out of Stephen Amell since Oliver got back from the island. I think Ruby was an easier part for KC to play, she understood her better and it's always easier to play bad than good, so she didn't have to stay in character all day for it. It must be tough on her to have to go into Laurel's character and stay apart and in character when the rest of the cast are acting goofy (e.g. the Summer Nights video with Barrowman).

I think Barry Allen is still unconscious. It would be a waste of potentially good TV to have him wake up off-screen and miss everyone's reactions as well as his own to finding his new powers. On the other hand, this is the Arrow EPs we are talking about. I wonder if Cisco and Caitlin working on the mirakuru cure might play into them finding something that wakes Barry up from his coma.

Absolutely. Slade's been planning this revenge for 5+ years now, he's going to make it as awful for Oliver as he can. I think Oliver's journey back from the island has also been about the walls he put himself behind on the island, and the coming down of those walls starting with Diggle reaching out to him. But there are still walls there, although not as thick as before. That's why he was okay with saying to Sara "we need to get a place" but not okay when she put it into the context of moving in together. He's also been slow to let Diggle and Felicity in even though they are the people who know the most about him right now. He didn't talk about Slade till he came into town, nor about Shado until he had to. In City of Blood, in both the Diggle & Felicity and Laurel scenes he was open about needing to sacrifice himself but still holding back. With Felicity in the clock tower, he opened up more than I've ever seen him to with a post-island person, he talked about the mistakes he'd made and his disappointment in himself as usual but it seemed more genuine and real rather than something he was monitoring to see what would be okay to say. Maybe at that point he had finally let someone in because in their next scenes, he was more open than I've seen him in Starling City before. I'll be interested to see if it carries over into the next episode.

I forgot about Roy. (You reminded me, Danny Franks, because I know you care for him.) Roy walking down the street with Oliver, Diggle and Sara is his destiny to be on Team Arrow. Anyone think that what happens to Sara (is she dead? is she alive?) will be one of the cliff-hangers?

Yes to Oliver embracing his, yes to Sara accepting herself as a hero, yes to Diggle and Felicity, a maybe yes to Thea (with Merlyn?) as long as it well written. But a firm 'no' to Laurel as anything but a lawyer or Manhunter.

Choreographed and led by Malcolm Merlyn, brought to you by Mel Brooks.

I thought it was going to be Deathstroke, which I thought was a really good episode but then they did The Man Under The Hood followed by Seeing Red so I didn't think the chain was broken until City of Blood (minus Laurel in the Cave).

I really liked Jennifer Crusie's blogs on Arrow because she not only commented on the episodes, she broke it down in terms of writing why something worked and something else didn't. I can understand why she gave up this season but I miss her analysis. Thanks for bringing the links here, GirlWednesday. quarks, you should be writing for the show. Your scene give Diggle and Felicity agency, make Laurel smarter and less self-absorbed, and more likable. A really rich guy offering to donate money to your charity because he wants something from you done the right way can be one of the most romantic of set-ups. (I remember it in a book years ago and it still hits me.) But even if Laurel didn't want to sleep with Tommy, she still should have been savvy enough to know it would have saved CNRI and let her continue to be the do-gooder she believes herself to be. What I find most annoying about Laurel, other than the way they shoe-horn her in, is that everything in the world, everything, she sees through how it affects her personally. I think one of the hardest things is, when you see something in your mind's eye, to see it as it really is. (A big reason people stay in bad relationships.) They decided that Laurel was going to be Oliver's OTP and the Black Canary, they hired a name CW actress, but when it didn't work, they brought in other characters like Felicity and Sara but it seems like they're still hanging on tightly to their original vision. I think there is a role for Laurel on the show but it's not as Oliver's OTP and it's a long time from being BC.

I don't think that there is time left this season to corrupt Felicity. Slade may try to corrupt her and fail, or he may force her to do something that she would have refused to do before, but with only one episode left, I don't think he can truly corrupt her light. I don't know if this post of mine got lost in the creation of this thread or if no one wants to play but in case it's the former, I'm going to re-post it: In the season 1 finale, Sacrifice, there were a number of characters who sacrificed other than Oliver. Tommy sacrificed his life to save Laurel; Moira sacrificed her freedom and her reputation to go public on The Undertaking; Diggle sacrified getting hurt for Oliver and to stop the Undertaking; Quentin sacrificed safety to try to defuse the earthquake machine; Felicity risked herself to stay and help him; Thea sacrificed to try to get Roy out of the Glades;even Laurel sacrificed (in the EPs eyes) her safety to gather together the files so she could prosecute the criminals. Could there be multiple 'Unthinkable's in this season's finale? BkWurm (I think) has suggested that Felicity does the unthinkable for someone who has always been against killing and kills someone. Maybe Sara does the unthinkable and promises to go back to the LoA in order to get their help to saving Starling City. Diggle could do something against his moral code when he takes on ARGUS.

Thanks, Stacey. :-)

There isn't a speculation without spoilers thread so I'll put this here: In the season 1 finale, Sacrifice, there were a number of characters who sacrificed other than Oliver. Tommy sacrificed his life to save Laurel; Moira sacrificed her freedom and her reputation to go public on The Undertaking; Diggle sacrified getting hurt for Oliver and to stop the Undertaking; Quentin sacrificed safety to try to defuse the earthquake machine; Felicity risked herself to stay and help him; Thea sacrificed to try to get Roy out of the Glades;even Laurel sacrificed (in the EPs eyes) her safety to gather together the files so she could prosecute the criminals. Could there be multiple 'Unthinkable's in this season's finale? BkWurm (I think) has suggested that Felicity does the unthinkable for someone who has always been against killing and kills someone. Maybe Sara does the unthinkable and promises to go back to the LoA in order to get their help to saving Starling City. Diggle could do something against his moral code when he takes on ARGUS.

Slade had told him one more person had to die before it would all be over and Oliver thought that person was himself. My guess is that he was thinking that Slade would call off the army once once he had killed Oliver because that would take care of The Promise and there would be no point to the army any more. Slade's real plan seems to have been to force Oliver to choose between mother and sister, to watch his mother being killed, then his city destroyed, and finally then to have the last person to die. It was probably more twisted to have it be someone Oliver cared about, as he cared about his mother, and then have to live with the knowledge that he was responsible for the death of this individual, as Slade had to live with the knowledge that Shado was taken from him. Frankly, neither Slade nor Oliver seemed to be thinking straight at that point. I thought that it was interesting that Oliver was looking away from Felicity when he gave his confession/apology to her. It's often easier not to look at the other person when you say something like that, maybe because you don't want to see how disappointed they are in you. Since Oliver got back from the island, it's been a journey of letting other people in. Diggle forced his way in by giving Oliver good advice, so Oliver knew he was a person to turn to. Thea also forced her way in by yelling at him for being a douche and pushing away his family. With Moira, it was when they were worried about Thea being kidnapped. I think Tommy truly got in only at the end as he was dying. Sara was in part-way but with both of them so damaged, I think he still guarded some of himself from her. In spite of what the EPs say, I don't think Laurel got in at all; he may have wanted to tell her his secret every night but he didn't. I think Felicity's "You're not alone... I believe in you" hug pushed through some more barricades but how much, we'll have to find out.

I'm pretty sure Moira wasn't in it because she's already been corrupted. I don't remember if Thea was there or not but I know Laurel wasI guess the CW promo department just loves her.. Since Felicity had been getting less and less airtime, it freaked me out because I thought Laurel was going to be replacing Felicity in terms of who touches/is touched by Oliver.

I just re-watched the "Don't do it, Oliver" scenes from 2x11, (flashing to Wayne & Shuster "I told him, Julie, don't go, don't go, I told him.") After he killed Moira, Slade told Oliver that one more person has to die. Looking at the scene with Diggle and Felicity, I realized that I'd missed that at that point, Oliver really believes that he himself is the one person who must die for it to stop. He's sitting there in the alternate Arrow Cave, trying to get up his courage to go to Slade, essentially committing suicide because that is what he thinks Slade is talking about. The definition of heroism, one man giving himself up so that others may live, is not Oliver giving up but Oliver fighting Slade the only way he thinks he can get Slade to stop killing other people. When Laurel tries to stop him from going (a scene which wasn't so bad now that I know Felicity gets another shot in 2x22), the information that Blood is working for Slade and that there is an army coming is what gets him to realize that he was wrong and he wasn't the person Slade is referring to after all. I still think that Kreisburg's "Laurel comes to Oliver in his darkest hour and persuades him to continue fighting' (or whatever he said) is overkill because it was the information that turned him around, not Laurel's plea, but it makes a bit more sense now.

raises hand... pick me, pick me! Low self-esteem is a possibility but at this point, I'm leaning to narcissistic. Everything revolves around her, every action is referenced from her point of view. And why not? Look at how Quentin behaved after Laurel bugged Blood's office, compared to how he was after Sara saved a child from a burning building. He was glad Sara was alive but could he at least have given her some validation for the act? For example, when the nameless cop said 'that woman is a hero', Quentin could have added "She really is". If Laurel grew up with that, with her parents praising her every move and pushing her to law school or academia while they've just happy for Sara not to get kicked out of school, and adding on Laurel's looks and brains, no wonder she thinks the world revolves around her and no one has suffered like she has.

So that's where the card-counting comes from, Felicity was from Vegas. Maybe they do think long-term on this show after all. The soft sheets works for me but not the comforter. It gets pretty hot in Monte Carlo this time of year. (The broke/Monte Carlo/cards reminds me of when I was in school and watching General Hospital (what? Everyone in college did) and billionaire Jax had lost all his money and was counting on V to help him win a high stakes chemin de fer game to win it back.)

What about the baby? I can't believe Oliver and Felicity spend 5 years alone on the island and there isn't even one baby.

Oooh, I like it. I thought that Slade let Blood take the case as a test of loyalty, but to use it to abduct his target is lovely and sneaky. Good point. Sometimes the show goes so fast, it's hard to connect all the dots. (That, and that I don't really trust them anymore.) (Sorry, couldn't help it, it wouldn't leave my brain.) If you're not looking through Olicity glasses, the actual interactions between Oliver and Felicity have been pretty platonic. He's slept with every other available woman on the show, and the last time she hugged him, when he got back in Three Ghosts, he was talking to Diggle and hugged her back as if his mind was elsewhere. If, and it's a big if, there is something significant between Oliver and Felicity in terms of Blood's "the one you love the most", it's going to come out of nowhere if it's not set up beforehand. I thought the directing in the clock tower scenes was clunky, but it's not as if you can stop the tape and say "look, see, here he's responding back to her." She hugged him, and slowly, walls breaking down, he's hand drew close and he hugged her back. Shot of Oliver's face. At this point, I'm going to assume say it's foreshadowing. Pandering is usually taken to mean pimping. On this show, my vote would go to "I know you as well as I know my own name... I know you in my bones." And the arrow, it's not that Laurel shot the arrow, but that the show put her into the position to shoot it. Why was she following Oliver around anyway? I think Lauriver was the pandering in Streets of Blood, and there was a lot of it. ETA: I just watched the 'Felicity bucks up Oliver in the clock tower' scene and noticed 3 things I'd missed before: 1: Oliver is apologizing to her when he says that he didn't see this coming 5 years ago. Not just explaining but it sounds like an apology maybe for failing her too. 2. As she gives her speech, the music rises. Real epic music through the hug and Oliver's determination to keep fighting. 3. As Oliver leaves with Diggle to get the cure, he's a lot more open to Felicity. He was friendly but always a bit closed off, now that it's the endgame, his walls are down. (Also noted that when Oliver tells Felicity to stay, she stays, unlike Laurel.) I love that Blood's mask is the physical representation of his fear of his father. And as a fan of The Daily Show, I smiled at his American flag lapel pin as well as his red, white and blue tie.