statsgirl

I also think that it was safe for him to say it because in the end, she was going to believe it was all a ruse and wouldn't take it seriously. The sort of thing you whisper to someone who is asleep and doesn't hear because you can't say it when they're awake. Or as EBR said about it:

The positive side for me is that now I know that the EPs are serious about them as a couple. I think it was very clever of the writers. It's far too soon to put them together, and I bet a lot of people are worried about changes in the dynamic of Team Arrow if Oliver and Felicity get together, so they managed to let the audience know they're canon, but not get them together yet. While it amuses me that when Oliver heard that Laurel had been kidnapped by Slade, he was more concerned with saving the city, I'm glad they didn't have him have to make that decision wrt Felicity.

I shuddered when I saw that Slade was in solitary. Solitary confinement makes even sane people crazy; what's it going to do to Slade?

Not just on-online. I have three friends who watch the show, one I talked into it and two who found it on their own, professional women all of us, and no one likes Laurel. My best friend keeps asking me why they haven't got rid of her yet. Another friend, someone who was at IBM when it was a man's world and now teaches comp sci at a college, has objected to every representation of a woman in IT till she saw Felicity. Every interview with either SA, EBR or a producer has lead off with a question about the fake-out, and it's figured prominently in every review I've read whether by a man or a woman. In terms of creating buzz for the show, this is a big deal, much bigger than any Laurel storyline has been. I'm hoping Waller will be minimized and that it will be more about what Oliver has to do for her (early Suicide Squad? has to earn his way out?) sort of like the labours of Hercules, than about him interacting with Waller herself. I've sort of resigned myself that they didn't cast someone like CCH Pounder in the role because Oliver is going to end up sleeping with her. They just showed Unthinkable again on TV (thank you, M3) and I noticed a couple of things that I hadn't before. Willa Holland, doing a frustrated Thea rolling her eyes at the psycho who is her birth father as he pursues her telling her how proud he is of her that she shot him, is a hoot. There's a lot of room for some really funny stuff between her and John Barrowman if they want to play some of it for laughs. And when Oliver is standing on a car in the tunnel talking to Slade (does he get better reception on the car?), all "Do what you have to do, I'm done playing your games", and Slade tells him that it's Felicity that he's got, Oliver looks genuinely scared. I don't know how Amell does it wearing a mask and hood, but Oliver swallows and it looks like he's thinking "Oh crap, it worked but what's going to happen to her now?" Maybe it's just where the show wants me to be right now and Oliver is going to try again with Laurel in the next season, but right now I get the impression that Oliver cares a lot more about Felicity than he does about Laurel. As with Slade, the picture gazing in s1 was a misdirection.

The first character I first fell in love with: Felicity. Until she came on, I thought the show was kind of boring. The character I never expected to love as much as I do now: Oliver. Not impressed with him at all but as the serious went on, he became more complex emotionally and 'the baby died' scene with Moira and all the stuff in the last couple of episodes is just wonderful acting on SA's part. The character everyone else loves that I don’t: Shado. I didn't get to know her enough beyond as a trope and ugh to sleeping with Oliver. The character I love that everyone else hates: Moira. She's so Lady Macbeth but things get away from her too. The character I used to love but don’t any longer: No one. I got a bit testy when Diggle and Felicity were reduced to one liners during the big Sara/Lance sisters arc but I'm back to loving Sara as long as she stops giving Laurel ideas above her abilities. The character I would totally smooch: Quentin, because Oliver is busy with you all. I'm a sucker for anyone who loves like that and makes lasagna too. The character I’d want to be like: Diggle. He's just so grounded (at the moment). And funnny The character I’d slap: Waller A pairing that I love: Nyssa/Laurel. Because Nyssa had absolutely no time for Laurel at all. A pairing that I despise: Laurel and Oliver. Her "I know you better than anyone else does" is pure gaslighting. Thanks, KirkB!

The interviews from the upfronts are out. John Barrowman on how Malcolm's sees his relationship with Thea: http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/arrow_season_3_emily_bett_rickards_and_john_barrowman_promise_more_olicity_and_malcolm-2014-05 On the other hand, he lost his wife because he pushed away the emotion to work, and she died. Thea is at her lowest ever, so it will be interesting to see if she lets Malcolm in, and to what extent he can manipulate it.

That's what Andrew Kreisburg said in one of the (many) interviews before the finale aired, that Felicity does the bravest thing that any character on the show has done. So, yay, producers. Now just mean it, please. I've been venturing around the web and looking at various comments on the episode and I'm beginning to think that it was one big Rorschack test. So many people believe that Laurel is Oliver's once and future true love because she is the Black Canary. Not yet, because Sara is right now but they're willing to take Sara as Oliver's OTP in a pinch. With Felicity it's all platonic or ego-boosting.. I was thinking of Laurel's last scene on the docks when Quentin collapses and she calls 911. First, I wondered how long it was going to take the paramedics to get there because they had to have their hands full with all the havoc Slade's army had caused. Then I wondered who she could call to be with her while she waited to find out about Quentin because with Dinah in Central City and Sara gone, who is left? Did she still keep up her contacts with Joanna from CNRI? Usually we think about Felicity being isolated but if it had happened to her, she could have called Diggle or even Oliver. Speaking of Oliver, if they still intend to put Oliver and Laurel together, there should have been some contact between them at the end of this episode, Oliver apologizing to Laurel for putting her in danger, or Laurel phoning Oliver for help after she called 911. But instead it's like they're on different shows and Oliver got that nice scene with Felicity and Diggle on the island to set up next season.. Even if they wanted to leave Quentin as a cliff-hanger, they could have had Oliver say something about checking up on Laurel to see how she's doing. So I'm thoroughly confused now, and probably will be for the next five months. Probably more, given that this show gives with one hand and takes with the other.

Malcolm told her "everyone is lying to you, including Roy." She already knew that Oliver and Moira had, and when she found the arrows that confirmed that Roy was too. She probably thought, what the hell, he's a mass murderer but at least he hasn't lied to me or taken advantage of me while everyone else has. I know who he is and I can handle him (famous last words). Let's see what he can do for me, I've got nothing else planned. Oh, if only Nyssa not being bothered with Laurel were a meta-statement for the show!

Worse, a lot of people didn't even notice when she wasn't in an episode. The rest of the story seemed to flow much more smoothly. Very little of the Laurel Lance saga makes sense to me. Maybe they brought back Sara as the Canary because in some part of their brains, it twigged that KC was far from being ready to take up the Canary cry, and then CL did such a good job with it that it became harder and harder to think KC could replace her. (This is assuming that the EPs have any kind of a reality check.) Giving up on a plan is one of the hardest things to do, but after Caity Lotz, I don't see how they could reasonably make Laurel into the Black Canary. And she never worked as Oliver's love interest, even before Emily and Caity came on board.

Maybe Sara can only kill people who deserve to be killed. There are a few on my list right now, like the leader of Boko Haram.

Is it okay to bring the cast interviews into the conversation? It may not end up canon, but at least we know where they are playing from right now. http://www.mtv.com/news/1825705/arrow-season-finale-cast-spoilers/ I like that she says "she realizes that he's not the only man on the planet." I think that sets up the possibility that she could look around at other men in a healthy way as opposed to a 'the EPs want to screw us over' way. I was thinking about quarks theory in terms of Oliver and Sara's break-up, specifically supposing that Oliver knew that he had feelings for Felicity in Blast Radius. He suggested to Sara that they look for an apartment together because both of them were out of their homes, at which point Sara asked "Are you asking me to move in with you?" and Oliver froze. Having a FWB and sharing an apartment is one thing, but asking a person to move in with you implies something a whole lot more in terms of their relationship. I had thought Oliver was just commitment-phobic but if he knew at the time that he had feelings for Felicity, it wouldn't be fair to Sara to live with her under those terms. Maybe Sara figured it out by the end of the episode, which is why she broke up with him with the heavy-handed remark about him needing someone who will see the light in him. (Something Felicity does every time she encourages him to find a way other than killing. "You can be more", the John Crichton to Oliver's Aeryn Sun.) What would have been different if Oliver had gone to Isabel not Sara at the end of Heir to the Demon, implying that Oliver's relationship with Isabel had been more than a one night stand? (I always suspected that Summer Glau's availability affected the Isabel storyline.) It would have given more substance to Felicity's comment that he could do better and made Isabel's betrayal of him at the end of the season even stronger. But overall, I'm glad she wasn't available and he went to Sara instead because it made for a better story. As for Laurel, she didn't interact with Oliver at all after leaving him to go to the police station to her father, not even a brief scene after she's freed from Slade where he apologizes for putting her in that position to justify the idea that Oliver can't get close to anyone he cares about because it puts her in danger. If there ever was a time to make that point, it was after Laurel had been kidnapped by Slade because he thought she was the one Oliver loved. But nothing, nada. They may bring on the Laurel tease again next season to keep Oliver and Felicity apart but even setting chemistry or lack of it aside, the writing is all against Laurel. A gorgeous visual. Can I steal the line?

If there is a stock split, wouldn't the Queen family still keep the same percentage as before, just each share is worth less? I'm in awe. I've read it over three times and I still don't understand it all. I really need to learn some more about finances. Usually locks aren't changed when a house goes up for sale, and it would take a long time to sell anything as expensive as the Queen mansion. Of course, Isabel could have organized it but it was only a short time since the crash happened (about a week between that and Moira's death? Oliver was in the house on the day of Moira's funeral, which should have been the day before All Hell Breaks Loose in the last set of episodes and part of that time Isabel was busy being dead. If anything I would have expected the codes on the alarm system to be changed but not the locks. The furniture under dust covers was bizarre because wouldn't the Queen's still own the furniture? I can see mortgaging the house and the art collection to get money for QC, but who thinks to mortgage furniture? Although when Oliver took Felicity there, there was much less furniture left, I noticed that the table in the foyer was missing. I guess there was enough furniture left so that Slade could still use a bug or two. Something different in terms of story telling for next season and it happened in the comics. I can see Felicity getting a job right away with her IT skills, and Diggle as a body guard for... the possibilities are huge... but if Oliver can't, what would he live off of? Would he agree to let Diggle and Felicity help him, or would he start serving up burgers at the Big Belly? And then there's the $1 million severance pay he gave Diggle and Felicity at the end of last season. Felicity used her to re-stock the Arrow Cave but what did Diggle do with his?

I know. Between Smallville and Dawson's Creek, it's like one's worst nightmare. On the other hand, think of the WB exec who called down after EBR's first episode and said, the blonde IT girl? Keep her around. (Or something to that effect.) First and foremost, TV is a business and Oliver/Felicity is what is causing the relationship buzz for the show. If you read Maureen Ryan's reviews, it's feels like it's half the show. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/15/arrow-finale-review_n_5333304.html I didn't watch Dawson's creek but didn't Dawson and Joey have more chemistry than Oliver and Laurel? And maybe Berlanti learned on the show, that sometimes it's better to go with the flow than force the storytelling.

I think Diggle is too important to the show, much less to Oliver, to drop him from it. He's the adult on the Team, the one who stops those two crazy kids from doing stupid things. With a baby Diggle on the horizon, I'd like to see them explore what are the limits for being a vigilante or agent (in Lyla's case) when you are responsible for a young like. They could also be a model for something Oliver wans to have but feels he can't let him dream of. If he can't be in a relationship with someone he cares about because of what he does, how much farther away is fatherhood and a stable family for him? (Cue the manpain, but at least it's not over someone dying.) (I miss SG1 too. I didn't reazlie how much Diggle is like Teal'c till you mentioned it now.)

I could go with either of those theories: that Oliver really doesn't think that Felicity has feelings for him; or that he has an idea that she does but he doesn't want to go there because he can do his job better if he doesn't know, just like Quentin has to know that Oliver is the Arrow but he doesn't want to have it acknowledged because he can't do his job, or ask the Arrow to help him, if he knows who it really is. It's also better storytelling and leaves the door open for both Oliver and Felicity to date (although hopefully not have a relationship with) other people next season. The EPs have said they've planned on 5 years of flashbacks, one for each year on the island, so the show has got 3 seasons to go, way too soon to put Oliver and Felicity together yet. I can see a scene next scene where Oliver reacts to Felicity's interest in someone else or maybe a bit of jealousy over what Diggle has with Lyla and the baby, and Diggle says something about maybe if you asked Felicity out she wouldn't be interested in other people and Oliver replies 'What do you mean? She's not interested in me' and Diggle walks off, shaking his head. On another thought, I wonder if Guggenheim had actually intended to come out and say that Felicity was the one that Oliver loved. On Wednesday night, there were some tweets saying that 'you promised to tell us who Oliver loved but it still could be Laurel because the Felicity scene was a show for Slade' so maybe MG had to come out and confirm it, as SA sort of did yesterday.

How does the "I was your girl" .... "You'll always be my girl" from Time of Death play into your theory? Diggle knows. In the island scene, as they're walking back to the plane, he says "I'll give you two a moment alone" and walks on, classic pointer to a romantic relationship. Even if he thought they should talk things over (and why, presumably it's long enough after battle night that they've had a chance to talk), Diggle could have said "I'll go ahead to check out the plane before we take off." But I have to say, during their conversation, when Felicity was giving him every opportunity to jump in and say that he really did care for her, I think SA when the camera was on him (as opposed to the two shot) was giving it his all in the "I love this babbling sweet woman" look. Then he said "we both sold it", implying or maybe thinking that she was faking it too. Earlier, in the dungeon with Slade, Oliver told him " I was strong enough not to kill you, you helped make me a hero". If Oliver's definition of being a hero was to save the day without killing, who is the one who gets all the speeches encouraging him not to kill? Felicity, while Quentin, Nyssa, Sara and occasionally Diggle are all telling him sometimes you need to. Although I really think we're giving the EPs too much credit. This seems to be more planning than they're willing to do.

Which could play into seeing Diggle with Lyla and baby (which hopefully will be born before the season starts because no good can come of birth dramatics). This is the happiness that Diggle has... will Oliver let himself feel that too? I'm glad you don't see a problem with Oliver being celibate next season because I don't see how they can have him sleep with anyone else now that we've seen he has feelings for Felicity. It would not only make him a man-whore again, the audience would probably be on Felicity's side even if she does think he doesn't have feelings for her. The only possible exception would be an old girlfriend on a FWB basis but he's been there, done that, with Sara. I'm not really liking the idea of teasing Felicity with Barry either because knowing Oliver and his sainthood mission, he'd just let it happen so that she could be happy. Besides, after seeing the 5 minute The Flash promo, I'm more inclined to ship Barry with Caitlin (but that may be affected by my Simmons/anybody-but-Fitz sentiments).

I think they've been too busy with other storylines the last two seasons to do justice to Thea and Willa Holland. She's a good actress and she'll do a lot with the role if they give her the chance. I like how Thea ended the season, disillusioned with Oliver and Roy, and heading off with Merlyn to see what he can teach her. It's a great opportunity to give her some real fighting skills (along with her archery trophies) plus she gets to be an antagonist to Oliver and Roy when she comes back.

And then Caity came along and made the Black Canary role hers. But I still think that neither EBR nor CL would have made such a splash if Laurel had been working as a character. It may be part KC but there are a lot of KC/Laurel fans out there, and comic book fans, who keep telling her they can't wait till she comes into her roles as BC and Oliver's leading lady. So partly she's believing them, and partly playing to them. But I look at the scene in the sewer treatment plant, and Laurel is struggling in vain against the mirakuru soldier while Felicity is terrified but quietly waiting for her chance to make her move, and there's no competition, Maybe KC thought that Laurel should be struggling but it makes her look ineffectual. I thought that was a completely different person in that picture.

I'd say there was quite a bit of interest in KC's interviews, but most of it was negative especially when she talked of taking on the Black Canary mantle and how Laurel and Oliver are OTP. On the other hand, the John Barrowman spoilers.....

Ugh, yes. Even for Felicity, who has her embarassing moments, telling Oliver she loves him when he was playing Slade would have been awful. Even on the island at the end, she was so much asking him to say he really meant it. For the same reason, I'm really glad they didn't kiss, either at Queen mansion or on the island. To quote a reviewer I like: http://weminoredinfilm.com/2014/05/15/tv-review-arrow-unthinkable-s2ep23-i-love-you-too-oliver/ Thanks for that link, morrigan. Lots of good stuff there.

pootlus, you got your wish. Did you notice that when Slade said he was holding "the one you love" and Oliver thought it was Laurel, he was all "Do what you have to, I'm done playing your games", and then he finds out it's Felicity and the next scene is him stalking Slade. Nice to know Oliver appreciates the difference in the women too.

I just noticed that Slade's suit is metal when Oliver wasted 3 injection arrows on him at the QC building before Slade jumped out the window. Felicity would have to be very careful where she tried to stab him. Nyssa is completely awesome. I love that she doesn't have time for the screw-ups (knocking out Laurel although to be fair Sara said she didn't want Laurel hurt; telling Oliver his dithering is why his city is burning, taking out Isabel because she's talking too much) but she goes up to Felicity and introduces herself. Felicity challenged Sara bringing the LoA to the secret lair; Felicity is worth Nyssa's time. And Quentin's -- in the fight in the tunnel, he saved Nyssa by arrowing a soldier, and she acknowledged it with a nod, then so did he. They're okay now. That makes sense in terms of the blocking and of the pauses in their speech. He really started to high-tail it out of there before she stopped him. She also asked "why are we here?" which I don't think she would have if she had known the plan. And wouldn't Oliver have given her the syringe earlier rather than risk being caught on camera handing it to her? Another thought -- if he left her at the mansion without the speech telling Slade to go after her as it looked like he intended to do, does that mean that he really just needed her to be safe after all so he could do his job, even before it turned into the Slade take-down? I liked how EBR said "I want to be with you (pause) and the others being unsafe." Just a touch of a reminder that she has feelings for Oliver (as if we didn't know) but she's a group player. From an interview with Stephen Amell (my bolding) Since it has made it easier for him to have a relationship with Felicity, I'd say a little wearing of shipper glasses is justified. I think it's funny that I found 3 clips of the Queen mansion scene (the fake-out) on youtube and none (yet) of the beach scene, and yet the latter I find much shippier.

Thinking about it over night, it struck me that the episode was not just about "embracing your destiny" as AK said, but about choosing the partner you trust to risk death with, for you and for her, and who you are willing to face your destiny with. For Diggle, it was Lyla. She came back to save him, they both went to stop ARGUS, knowing that death really could do them part, and they are about to raise a child. They're not bound in marriage any more, but they're as together as they could be. Oliver chose to face Slade with Felicity. Maybe the ILU is true, maybe it isn't, but she was the person he listened about a plan that didn't involve killing, she was the one he trusted enough to risk her life in the big attempt to stop Slade and she trusted him to trust her as well as to do the right thing. The symbolism of the island scenes -- Oliver is down in the deep dungeon with Slade and then he comes out into the light and there are Felicity and Diggle. (How did they find a sunny day on the West Coast?) Felicity is his light and his travelling partner. It sucks that Sara has left to return to the LoA (hopefully only temporarily) but she's left with someone who will guard Sara's life with her own. Thea thought that she trusted Roy and was planning to leave with him; when she found that he too had been lying to her, she went off with Malcolm Meryln to her destiny, not trusting him completely but enough given that she knows he's a psychotic villain. As often is the case, Laurel stuck out like a sore thumb. Well he could use a mole in the DA's office. I'm willing to keep Laurel around as long as it's made clear that 1) she's an adolescent love of Oliver and it's blue dead and 2) Sara IS the Black Canary. Laurel can find something else that goes with a black leather jacket. She would have only one chance because if she failed, he would take the syringe from her and possibly kill her. It had to work first try.

I was iffy about the whole fake-out thing because I couldn't believe they actually went there but they did, and then I found it wasn't true. It felt like a giant con. But then this happened And the scene made sense. I had had enough of Slade in the flashbacks but even too much Slade is better than any Amanda Waller. I feel very badly about what they did to Sara at the end. They created a good character, found the perfect actress for her, and now they're going to throw all that way for the waste that is Laurel?