statsgirl

Maybe Sin goes missing after the explosion and they have to look for her. Bex T-K did say she'd be back on the show. I can see Laurel digging into Diggle and Felicity's pasts because she doesn't trust that they're good enough to be Oliver's team. But Roy is most likely, especially after the cop killing.

By the time we see them in the flashbacks, I can see the competitiveness but I also see Sara wanting to warn Laurel that the future she's planning on with Oliver is more a figment of her imagination and Laurel snapping back "Why can't you be happy for me?" It's after that that Sara decided to go on the boat with Oliver. I think Sara truly loved Laurel and looked up to her big sister. She was competitive but I think that was in reaction to Laurel's behaviour.. Laurel was only 2 years old when Sara was born and replaced her as the baby of the family, and the Laurel we've seen doesn't like to take second place to anyone. I think Laurel does love Sara as much as she can but Laurel's first priority is always herself and if she's got what she wants, that's when there's room for Sara and Dinah and Quentin..

I know Ray Palmer becomes the Atom in the comics, but given that Arrow say they were going to stay away from super powers, would they really have him become the Atom on this show? I can see him interested in the Applied Sciences division doing something that is a start to his powers but I'd be surprised if they shrunk him and made him a superhero on this show. Now that I've listened to CH's interview, it does sound like Laurel will be the one to dig up the dirt from Roy's past that comes in to mess him up. But now I'm really worried for Sin as the "something terrible" happening. Everyone is drinking water. Gotta watch those calories. They've been teasing that someone will be missing from the early episodes and I assumed that it was Thea since Oliver thinks she's backpacking in Europe, and that Willa Holland tweeted that she had some more weeks left to put on muscle.. ETA: It's funny that they have J.R. Ramirez on the show as Ted Grant, considering he used to be in Emily Owens with Justin Hartley.

That could be fun to watch. Maybe because I like them both, and there would be no sexual stuff involved. I'd like to see it played for laughs, no more than one episode. Totally consistent with her character but jeez ... do they want us to hate her? Yep, Oliver is a controlling idiot and it's made him do lots of mistakes in the past. But it is coming from a place of caring for them. I bet Diggle knows that, which is why he's going to fight Oliver on benching him. If they are going to sell Olicity, Felicity has to know it too. If she loves him (and I think she does), she has to know him well enough that his biggest fights are with his own demons. If she gets that he loves her, why would she start dating someone else while he's still in the middle of the fight? It's not love if she sees he's not emotionally ready for a relationship and moves on to find someone who is. I listen to his stuff but his track record I find he gets stuff wrong a lot. He's always minimized the role of Felicity and thought Laurel was the LI. When Laurel says they're business partners, it's more likely that it will be the "you catch them, I cook them" rather than money for him to buy QC. It's doubtful that Ray Palmer is going to be Oliver's boss because Oliver doesn't own the company and why would he work there otherwise? I don't think Maseo in Hong Kong is going to be Oliver's Diggle before Diggle, I think he's going to be a trainer another Yao Fe. How does he know that Ray Palmer will turn into the Atom during the season? Or be so sure that Oliver and Felicity will be in a relationship after the crossover episodes in 8 since Brandon Routh has been contracted for 14 eps. How can they give the Connor Hawke story to Diggle because 1) his baby is still a baby and 2) his baby is a girl (I think). And we've had teases that Oliver's child will be addressed during this season. I don't think, although I could be wrong, that Sara telling Oliver that they are not their masks is from last season, I think in that scene she was talking about letting in light. Then he says he thinks John Barrowman will be in the first episode but Barrowman said at SDCC he's just getting his scripts now and they're shooting ep 2., and he thinks Ra's will be there because of Waller, not Sara and Nyssa. So while it's interesting what he says, I'd take it with a healthy dose of salt.

We know David Ramsey can kick Stephen Amell's butt. SA has said they've kick boxed 3 (?) times and each time Ramsey has wiped him out.

I've been missing seeing interviews with the women, especially in the round tables where most of the good stuff has been coming out. I was wondering how we could test this idea, that CL, EBR and KC were deliberately kept away from events where they could be asked questions or if it was just that their shooting ran late. We've been told that there's a rooftop scene between Sara and Laurel so that may have been what they were shooting Friday night. The question is whether there is a Felicity scene that doesn't have Oliver, Diggle, Roy, or Quentin in it. If there isn't, it may well be that they deliberately kept EBR away. The question is, what does she think causes Oliver to push her away? If it's because he loves her too much and is afraid of getting her hurt, moving on would make her unsympathetic to the audience. How could she date someone else when he loves her so much??? The writers really gave WH a tough job in s1, and later in parts of s2 when she got really bratty and I think she's done a great job with very little to work with. As AK said, she deserves to be rewarded with a good storyline this season. (KC, on the other hand, has had lots of storylines.) I find people tend to be harsher on the characters who are more like they themselves are. Those remarks may be coming from people of Thea's age whereas I'm most critical of older women, especially in administration, who are incompetent. (Not Moira, never Moira! I mean characters on other shows. Okay, maybe Isabel.) I like the idea that what happens affects his relationships with both Felicity and Diggle because if it were just about Felicity and he loses it when she gets hurt, I don't see how she can go and date other people i.e. he loves her so much he goes nuts when she gets hurt and pushes her away. She could say "okay, I'll give you your space" but if he loves her that much, she'd be a very unsympathetic character to go and date someone else. But if the events of The Calm push him into his blinkered Arrow box and he pushes both Diggle and Felicity away, it's more understandable.

And the "raw discussion" they have is after that, when he tells her how he feels about her but can't be with her because it's not safe for the other person to be emotionally involved with him? I'm hoping it's a good scene. SA said that it was his favourite Olicity scene, and given what he did with the Susannah Thompson scene, I'm expecting a lot.

They're going to have to come up with something good for seasons 4 and 5 if Oliver becomes the Green Arrow and starts dating Felicity at the end of s3. Some interesting things from SA's interview just above: In the premier, Oliver sees a version of himself that he doesn't like and that affects his relationship with Diggle. The producers were done with "You have failed this city" but SA told him that the fans really like it, so they put it in s3. He retells the story about how they pitched his own idea back to him. Yeah, they do listen to him. Oliver doesn't drink, and he has to keep reminding the writers of that. Berlanti interview: who Felicity is and what she means to him in a lot of ways represents to him a whole other life We say a thousand times that this is this person's island but this season will really be Thea's island Another big DC character will come on this year I'm thinking that after things die down a little, I want to tweet the EPs to thank them for ending the caravan of women and staying with Felicity because now, as long as Sara's going to be around, I can just lean back and enjoy the show. I just want to add that I agree with what Orion wrote above about the PR plan, it seems like the news was given out deliberately to hook people who want it, and to let the furor die down a bit for people who don't. But for the latter group, there's always Count Vertigo and Ra's al Ghul to come. In the end, it's a business and SDCC is the biggest P.R. gig a sci fi/fantasy show has.

I watched this one again to see if I had been too harsh about it the first time around. Nope. Laurel is still a bitch. I have no sympathy for her except for when Sara brought Oliver to the family dinner because I wouldn't have stormed out like she did, I would have thrown them out. But the episode does seem to make Sara unusually wimpy in terms of Laurel than she usually is. Felicity got cut down to prop Sara and Sara got cut down to prop Laurel. KC did a good enough job with the speech to Sara at the end but true to form, Laurel made it all about herself. ALL about herself. No sympathy again for her. Maybe the EPs thought that this was a Felicity episode but it's really a Sara episode. The fact that Felicity is back in the Arrow Cave with the computers just shows how much more valuable to the team Sara is. (On the other hand, maybe if they had let Diggle go out with Oliver in the first half of the episode, it wouldn't have been so obvious that Sara was Oliver's equal.) And they even managed to put in Sara/airplane./Sin's father into the flashbacks. Felicity's scenes were done quite a bit before the end of the episode, and after that it was all Sara and a bit of Oliver. This episode is an examle of how, when you overdo a character, no matter how good she is, it gets too much. By the time Birds of Prey came on, I was heartily sick of the Lance sisters. On the other hand, Paul Blackthorne rocked this episode, from apologizing to Oliver to being happy about Sara being back, to hopeful about Dinah and then crushed, to being happy that Laurel turned up at the AA meeting. I hope they give him more to do next season. I love Diggle, and how he notices several times (through the acting) that Felicity is feeling left out. I wish they had spent more time on Tockman himself and why he was stealing the money and his attempt to keep anyone from being killed. I still hate the drugged Felicity scene with a thousand passions. I know they meant it as something cute between Felicity and Oliver but he just comes off as a condescending jerk. In fact, I pretty much hate Oliver all round in this episode. Any validation Felicity got,, she got from Sara and Diggle. Diggle even had to tell Oliver to notice her. I know people have been saying that Oliver was in love with Felicity from the Russia episode, or from Tremors, but I don't see any indications of it in ToD. SA said that these next episodes were hard because from this episode to the end of the season, Oliver didn't crack a smile once. I think the "uncovering tracks" part was partly sharing his faith but to me it, along with "what are you wearing?" was mostly "Get back to your pigeon hole. You are the IT person here, get ITing and stop trying to be something you aren't." I know he was stressed but sheesh. No wonder Felicity just got more and more upset. I think Felicity just wanted them out of there so she could do what she had to, which is crying and throw a snit fit and fixing the computer. That's why I love her, because even when it's blackest, she' picks herself up, dusts herself off and starts all over again', unlike other people who dive into an addiction (Laurel) or go all broody (Oliver). I assumed that it was in keeping with the theme of a foundry.

Diggle knew Deadshot was going to be there and he asked Oliver to be his backup. Then Oliver found out that the guy Laurel wanted to prosecute was leaving town so without telling Diggle, he went to get the guy for Laurel. Lyla got hurt and some of her team died and Diggle quit. Dramatically, it set up a conflict between Oliver and Diggle that Oliver had to grow emotionally to resolve, and it gave Felicity both a peacemaker storyline and the opportunity to go in the field in the casino with some pretty over-the-top innuendo. And another scene of Oliver rushing in to save her. Could they have done it another way? I don't know. But it really showed is that Oliver's blind spot with Laurel was so huge, no one else could count of him when he had Laurel stars in his eyes. It also set up sleeping with her again. I wonder if making Oliver stupid over Laurel here was set up with the s2 arc in mind where Oliver gets over her for good (I hope). I don't think so, but it could be.

One of the reasons I like cons is because I get to listen to the actors and how they work on their characters. It helps me separate the actor from the character. I think someone who hates CL because Sara hooked up with Oliver, something many of us were expecting anyway, is too close to the show. I've never sent a hate tweet but I'm ashamed to say I have sent critical ones but only to writers and EPs. The actors have very little power to change what is being written for them. That's a very good strategy (and supported by the social psych research). People are more likely to listen to something positive. And to consider a negative comment if you've said something positive first. (That's why teachers say something good about your essay before they hit the bad points.) I think if you had said something bad about Laurel/KC, he might have marked you down as a stan whereas now the love for Sara is reinforced.

I think it was Natalie Abrams at TV Guide who said after the s2 finale that Oliver couldn't love Felicity because he doesn't know anything about her. I'm in the camp that thinks we know a lot about her, just not a lot of facts. Part of that is the writing, that they deliberately don't give us facts but they give us character development, and part is in EBR's portrayal with early Felicity's scepticism about the truth of Oliver's words to her current b.s. detector. It's consistent that Felicity is scared of a lot of things and she continues to be scared but she goes ahead and does what she thinks needs to be done. Felicity's fear of heights was first talked about in s1 during the Merlyn office building caper. Diggle's 'thank you for not throwing up until we landed' in 2x01 continues to amuse, as does his comment about the parachutes 'just in case we actually made it here'. Presumably she's still afraid of heights since in Unthinkable she was the only one who didn't zipline down on her own, she waited for Oliver to take her. While still being terrified. That's actually a nice progression for the character, to go from "it's fun" in the Dodger and finding out it can be deadly too, to being willing to go undercover in the casino for Walter's sake, to being bait for the Dollmaker and saying she never would again, to wanting to help fight Slade, the most terrifying of them all. They are really small notes and it's hard to hear them in the great orchestral crash of the show but they are there. Her 'no kill unless you have to' has also been consistent from The Dodger when she walked out on Oliver because he wasn't, and it was a part of changing Oliver into the hero he ended s2 as. In contrast, Diggle has always been willing to kill when it expedites things, as has Sara. I think (hope) they've finally come to the point where they're will to do that. There was a lot of information to get through in s2, not to mention Sara coming back and Roy joining and Thea needing a reason to go away with Malcolm. Hopefully the EPs will take the time out to give us some more info on Felicity now.

Remington Steele is a perfect example of "if you wait too long, the chemistry goes". Not the chemistry between the two leads, but the chemistry of wanting them to get together. If they had got together in s3, it would have been a perfect rom/detective show. But by the time they did get together, all the shenanigans and other partners to keep them apart made it all meh. It would have been interesting if it were planned but I think it was just serendipitous that both there and in The Huntress Returns, Oliver lost it when Felicity was put in danger. I don't know if it was at the 'he loves her' stage yet but he was jealous of the time she was spending with Barry and that suggests that he cared for her. Or about her. Post-island Oliver is someone who keeps a very tight guard on his feelings and I can see that he would be careful not to let himself love Felicity because it would be dangerous for her whereas Sara is someone who could take care of herself. At least that's how he felt before he realized that Sara was possibly also developing feelings for him when she asked if he was suggesting they live together. I don't think it's been asked, but could Sara have also been using Oliver as a distraction from her feelings for Nyssa? I think it was the realization that he could lose her in the Unthinkable plan. But she was his only chance of taking down Slade, and that prompted the ILY in case either of them died and he never got another chance.. Hopefully we'll find out in the next episode.

I think the problem was that they were trying to juggle too many balls in the air at once. There was Sara's return to Starling City and her family, of course but that episode was also the culmination of Laurel's addiction arc because after Oliver told her off in the hallway, she admitted to it and started going to AA. Then they also had Slade's arc going on through the episodes since 2x07 (State Versus Queen) whenThe Count admitted he was funded by someone, who hated Oliver. Oliver himself was looking for the man in the mask and Roy had been already been shot up with mirakuru. And there was also Oliver's double life in the background, trying to juggle CEO and Arrow duties. So it shouldn't have been surprising that even though the episode was supposed to be about Felicity's insecurity about her role on the team now that Sara was there. kicking ass with Oliver and Diggle and scanning bloodwork, Felicity got lost in the shuffle. I liked the twist that Felicity was never jealous of Sara being with Oliver, and that her insecurities were about her inability to do her job (both find the Clock King and prevent the lair from being blown up) while Sara was super competent at both fight and lab work, but it was almost like digging for truffles to find it. You can hear the motif more clearly if there is just one or two instruments than if the orchestra is playing five melodies at once.

It's that cursed jacket that did it. When Sara handed it to Laurel and she put it on, it imbued Laurel with Sara's mind and she spends the rest of the season trying to get her own back. Usually, it's the women to whom that happens. Jessie Royce Landis was only eight years older than Cary Grant when she played his mother on North by Northwest. I can buy that Quentin was pretty young when he got married and had Laurel because he's pretty blue collar, not just because he's a policeman but in his attitudes. Paul Blackthorne said that Quentin's going to be struggling this season being in administration rather than "one of the boys". (And then I fanwank that Dinah had her kids and finished her degrees afterwards when they were in day care.) Susanna Thompson is 56, Alex Kingston is 51. They look amazing.

Guggenheim said in the TV Fanatic interview that they look at the emotional arc they are telling with the characters in that episode and in the season arc, and then they look at the pressure points to bring out the emotions and those pressure points are the villains. So if you believe him, The Clockmaker really was written to be Felicity's emotional pressure point, and if that's true, I kind of feel sorry for all the flack the writers got for that episode. The problem was, as it was in much of the second half of s2, that everyone else's emotional beats got lost in the Lance Family Drama which ate the show. Including Sara's, who went from "I'd rather die than go back to the LoA" to "Hey, Nyssa! Wait up! I'll just hand over this jacket and I'm yours."

LOL, we're so demanding. We get a statement from SA that Felicity is the only woman in Oliver's life this season, and 24 hours later, we want even more proof from MG. This show has always done everything through Oliver's prism. I think what stalls the Olicity train is not Felicity (although Oliver is afraid she might), but whatever happens with the attack by Count Vertigo and Oliver's decision that comes from that. Just like Felicity was afraid in Heir to the Demon that telling Oliver the truth would cause him to back away from her, I think here Oliver is afraid that what he is going to tell her is going to cause her to back away. (Oliver/Felicity parallel!) I can't see her doing it though, she's already seen the island and the scars and Slade and she'll always believed in the chance for redemption, even for Slade. I can see him spending the last five months worrying if and what he should tell her,and in the end it's his self-loathing and self-flagellation (maybe almost killing again, as pinknighmare said) that causes him to back away from her. It would be consistent with his character, and consistent with how he goes after anyone (the Count, Helena) who hurts Felicity. If he can't trust himself and he doesn't want Diggle there because he needs to keep Diggle safe, he can't let himself be involved with Felicity.

AnalyzeAndCritique, I think that Guggenheim was saying that she doesn't fall out of love with him even after what he tells her but it deepens their connection. (I remember Susanna Thompson said in an interview that Felicity telling Oliver about Thea's parentage strengthened their connection but I didn't see it on screen.) Personally, I don't think Felicity will fall out of love with him at all (at least not this season), she'll just give up waiting for him to get his act together, if she does date Ray at all. (Remember, she never actually dated Barry for all the chemistry! promoting the EPs did.) Berlanti is saying in his interview that they have to do what's best for the characters and that Oliver's love life will hopefully be a multi-year arc. SA has been talking about the team visiting Central City and learning about something there that came out first in s2. I think that's Oliver's child, so I think that we won't meet the child, or maybe even hear about him till ep 8. In spite of ARGUS' power, I still have my doubts that Amanda Waller is going to tell Oliver about the kid. Threaten Tommy's life unless Oliver does what she wants, yes, that's probable.

Amell has never been one to push himself to the front ahead of other people; even at SDCC he was saying that getting the Flash show was 99% Grant Gustin, and he's always been cheerleading for other members of the Arrow team like Bamford. He's also extremely social media savvy and responsive to fans. To claim credit for the Hulu thing when he didn't do it seems out of character for him. And we know they listened to JB about Merlyn being Thea's father and not Oliver's, and to SA for how the baby gets introduced. I don't see why WB wouldn't have listened to him because he's an actor and not an executive -- he knows his show.

Technically he didn't abandon the kid since he thinks it's stillborn or miscarried. If he/she had been born, Oliver might have been a part of it's life. It was Moira who abandoned the kid, except she didn't really because she gave Sandra $2 million for its care. The killer thing makes sense since Felicity's always been about not killing since she joined the Team in s1. Maybe he tells her that A.R.G.U.S. turned him into a killer/assassin, and she understands? Guggenheim seems to think that women freak out when they learn things about their men. But if Oliver could defeat Slade and his mirakuru army without killing, what would be bad enough to turn him into a killer now? I tend to think it's more about not being able to save the city if he's Oliver Queen and happy rather than ever-vigilant. LOL about the impulse control. He needs it. I like this scenario.

From the promo reel, I think it's during the date that he tells her about Hong Kong and maybe some other things about the years he wasn't on the island. And then things blow up before they get their food, Count Vertigo tell hims something about the Arrow, a flashback to Hong Kong where his mentor tells him he can't be two people, he has to be just one, and he picks The Arrow rather than Oliver Queen, with the big emotional conversation with Felicity. Then the rest of the season is trying to figure out if he can get Oliver Queen back again after he's had those few moments of being him. When Arrow is good, it's very, very good. Going from what Guggenheim said in the interview, maybe it's because their first priority is the emotional beats for the characters rather than "shoot 'em up, blow 'em up" villains on other shows. I hope it's more along the lines of "Do what you have to do" rather than "I won't wait for you" because MG did say she's in love with him. And then when Ray comes along, pushes her career-wise in a way that Oliver doesn't, she starts to think that maybe Oliver won't be ready any time in the foreseeable future and meanwhile there is this other guy who seems to really care for her.

In the DC comics event, someone in the audience thanks them for putting Arrow out on Hulu because he doesn't get cable and it comes out that SA was the one to make that suggestion. So apparently the EPs and WB do listen to him and maybe include him in planning (suggesting that what he says in interviews is likely to reflect what the EPs want to come out rather than just his speculation).

MG also said that they're in love with each other, he tells her some secrets and "that emotional intimacy deepens their connection". So, is it canon yet? He says that they pick pressure points that will bring out emotional reactions in the characters and the villains are the pressure points. So I guess Time of Death really was supposed to be about Felicity.

1. Oliver: this is what they've been teasing for next season. 2. Laurel: Optimistically, I'm thinking that this could be a way to make her Manhunter or some other character. "Am I my sister (i.e. the Black Canary), or am I Laurel?" If she chooses Laurel Lance the lawyer, she's not the B.C. 3. I'm really looking forward to seeing Thea figure out if she's Moira's daughter or Malcolm's. 4. Good stuff for Diggle, not big fireworks but he's not a fireworks kind of guy. It's consistent with him being the mature, thinking one in the cave. I wonder if they'll also tie it back to Oliver losing his own father and what that means for him. I'm also interested in how he balances Lyla being the head of A.R.G.U.S., and the Andy Diggle story. 5. Finally they're going to make Felicity more than a crush on Oliver. Thank you for listening, EPs. It sounds like they've got plans for CL beyond her three episodes. It's looking good for Sara longterm. Yay for more Thea and Felicity. Again, it sounds like they're listening to the fans. I'm also glad to know that Thea/Roy seems longterm even if they get alternate love interests this season. I'm getting more excited about Brandon Routh being on the show because it sounds like the EPs want to play around with his character as more than just a stumbling block for Oliver. The only John Wayne movie I really like was The Quiet Man (okay, maybe Stagecoach) so I'm hoping they don't adhere too closely to his screen persona.

I can imagine the four of them talking about it (Stephen and the 3 EPs) and deciding that it's time to make a statement and Stephen's going to take the hit for it because he's the one who can recover most easily. There are two ways the show could go: either stay static like a procedural (L&O, NCIS) in which the male lead remains treading water and beating up bad guys; or grow Oliver as a person and develop him into a hero. It seems like they want to take the second route (SA definitely does) and part of doing that is not bedding "the caravan of women" who come on to the show. I'm surprised that he declared that it would be Felicity, at least for this season, but in terms of story telling as well as chemistry, she makes the most sense. Honestly, other than comics!, I can't think of a single reason why it would make the show better to have Oliver end up with Laurel. I hope they find a Ted Grant who has decent chemistry with KC and give her a storyline she can do so her fans will be okay with it, and so that Sara will remain the Black Canary. I know that if they had given a decent storyline and happy outside relationship to the female characters I've shipped with the lead that didn't work out (e.g. Cameron, Ziva, Hannah), I wouldn't have been nearly so bitter at the show. In that clip, SA talks about Oliver becoming more honest with Thea so he was thinking romantic relationships, not personal ones. I love that idea. I was hoping for Alexander Siddig but he's got a new gig on Game of Thrones this season.