Swansong

I did wonder if she was hoping on another reset and that Martin would not only help her defeat Renard, but help her remember, but she's putting a lot of faith in Martin's beast and considering her track record with this sort of thing that seems unduly optimistic. I mean what's in it for him besides the chance to possibly kill a god and is he really all that interested in that enough to stay the course? Right now all she's basically ensured is that two monsters have been unleashed on the world and it's not as if they were doing such a hot job just dealing with just the one. What's her back up plan if it all goes pear-shaped again? Lol! Yeah that's some really odd logic. I'll save everyone by ensuring they don't have the means to defeat the beast they're fighting and leaving them utterly vulnerable.

That was a brutal scene so was the last one for that matter, but yeah selling out the others and basically condemning them to death just for revenge? Yikes. And the sad part is I feel like this is going to end up backfiring on her again because really when have her plans for revenge ever really worked out for her and now she's using one dangerous, virtually unstoppable entity to get back at another. I have to admit that finale did not go the way I expected. I love how badly Quentin wanted to be the hero of the story that in his narration he isn't even modest about the fact that he really believed he was the hero of the story, but I also liked him acknowledging that in actual reality maybe he wasn't the right person to be the hero. That was a nice little twist I wasn't really expecting even though the show has made a point of having characters suggest he ain't that special. But I just thought that was the writers being self-conscious about writing yet another 'specialist snowflake in the galaxy main character'. Of course it does mean he gets to live another season while the 'real hero' possibly dies. Poor Alice, either way, having to drink god semen and it was all for nothing thanks to Julia. They've made a point about magic only having a limited affect when it comes to cures, but I hope Penny finds a way to get back his hands. I'm guessing at least one person between Alice, Margo and Elliot won't make it out alive. Alice seems the more likely choice, but my money is on Elliot just because they already planned to have him stay in Fillory so he was effectively 'gone' anyway, but I should probably go with Margo. I'm hoping they all miraculously survive, but it doesn't seem to be that kind of show despite all the humour. Poor Julia and not so poor Julia. It has been kind of a rough season for her and she's been largely powerless so on the one hand I can sort of sympathize with her acting in her own self-interest, but at the same time it seems like she's always been that kind of selfish so it's also just par for the course with her and she doesn't seem to have a lot of regard for other people when they get in the way of her plans. I feel like they're in danger of making her utterly irredeemable. It probably says something, though, that despite everything that happened in this episode I still feel for her a lot.

She didn't kill him. She made a deal with the beast to get revenge on the god that raped her and killed her friends and they disappeared off together.

When I first read this I wondered if this was a belated April Fools because when have tptb ever given Jack/Ianto fans want they really want, but yep it's true. I wonder if they'll answer the age old question of 'before Cyberwoman or after' lol. Heh! I had the same thought. It's pretty much the plot of almost every mediocre (and not so mediocre) post Cyberwoman Jack and Ianto fanfic origin story including Ianto drowns his sorrows at his local pub until Jack steps in (usually with his magical healing cock. Will there be magical healing cock in this? I hope so. (Well I don't, but I kinda do).

I just assumed she was a plant and that she was already a convert which was why Cal was so willing to do the interview and that her on screen 'conversion' was faked to fool the audience. Cal seems like the kind of manipulative type to orchestrate something like that. And that made more sense to me than the idea that his rather trite speech was enough to convert her. I don't find Cal particularly charismatic, but I think HD sells the idea of someone who's ambitious and manipulative and ruthless enough to get what they want by any means necessary pretty well so I hope they focus more on that aspect of the character more than the idea he's just so charming people can't help being drawn to him for vague reasons. I get why finding out about the lie about their leader would lead to a crisis within the cult, but i didn't get why it was supposed to be such a shocking reveal for the audience. The way it was set up I felt like that was supposed to be the mystery that reels the audience in, but it wasn't exactly compelling. I guess they encourage openness and honesty in every aspect of life except sex with their kids. I feel like right now I'm more drawn by the acting than the plot so I hope it becomes more interesting.

Lol! Apparently.

I might have been more interested in them if they'd been written with the whole team. Can they only afford one team member at a time or something?

I feel like he missed the boat with all the characters. For a show where the characters were supposed to be the show's big strength I thought they frequently dropped the ball with the core characters.

TW1 never seemed all that anti the Doctor. Even Yvonne treated him like a celebrity. I always thought Ianto was jealous of the Doctor because the writers were such fanboys and so everyone in their world is either required to be in love with the Doctor or jealous or him, there rarely seemed to be much variety between those states, but it never made much sense from the way they wrote the show. They spent the first season insisting the team barely knew anything about Jack, not even that he could die and revive, let alone about his relationship with the Doctor so what exactly would Ianto even know of Jack's relationship with the Doctor to be jealous of? I mean if there was supposedly all this information about Jack and the Doctor then why did the team think he was ex-CIA in s1 and if there wasn't any information then where did the team manage to become so knowledgeable. The way Jack left would have just created confusion for the team until Jack got back and then he comes back and except for a couple of questions the team never actually seemed that affected by the fact that Jack just left and basically left them in the lurch. Or really that curious. I mean if I'd just found out that my boss couldn't die, was from the future and used to be a companion, and that's just the edited highlights, that would create a lot of curiosity. But the team are just eh. Even the team doctor. Even Ianto really. I mean you're dating a guy who you'd just found out couldn't die before he up and disappeared. But the only time he shows any interest is in S3 so he can play exposition fairy for the new audience. I always thought it was absurd that Ianto was supposedly so jealous of the Doctor, who barely even showed up in their world and whose relationship with Jack was barely known, but not of Gwen who was actually in Jack's orbit and a genuine potential threat. I mean he's insecure about the the threats that aren't even around, but not of the one that could actually be a threat? That's why I could never take it seriously and just took it as a moment and not a reflection of anything deeper. Of course I largely cringe at how RTD writes Ianto in both those Dr. Who episodes and CoE and in hindsight am glad he didn't do much of the writing in s1 and 2.. Having general insecurities about his place in Jack's life and how important he may or may not be to Jack I can see, but the way they handled his potential jealousy seemed bizarre. I mean I'm glad they didn't show him jealous of Gwen because the way the show treated her was already unbearable enough, but since they insisted on going there with the Doctor and even John isn't that a bit backwards? I was disappointed that they didn't do more with the fact that Ianto was at Canary Wharf though. That's got to create a lot of complicated feelings and the Doctor was the one who saved the day, but at the same time a lot of people died, even people that he cared about? How did he feel about that? Why was the fact that TW3 and Jack in particular seemed so indifferent to all the people who were lost and the survivors not a bigger deal for him? When Carly, that woman from TW1, showed up in that radio play and the only thing they apparently had to talk about was why Ianto thinks Jack doesn't love him again I just groaned. Why tie the character to Torchwood 1 and it's biggest tragedy and then ignore it. I think It really spoke to how the writers really believed that the only really interesting thing about Ianto was Jack, which I guess ended up being true because that's the only thing they ever bothered to focus on. I always assumed he insisted on wearing a suit and looking so much like a TW drone at TW3 as a passive aggressive dig against Jack's dismissive towards the survivors especially since he puts on a suit right after Jack's made it clear he has no interest in anyone for TW1. Plus he makes the comment about how TW1 would have had the right gear to catch a pteranodon so I just go with that. Did they really think through the fact that Ianto was supposedly such a poor student, but still got into Torchwood 1 which we're told recruited the brightest and the best? I mean obviously academics aren't the only measure of intelligence and aptitude, but that does beg the question how did he end up on their radar? I mean we know how he was recruited to TW3 because he wanted to be recruited and Jack is, well Jack, but he didn't exactly have the same motivation to be recruited to TW1 and if he didn't have any real skills or education to attract their attention why did they bother? I assume they came to him rather than the other way since I doubt TW1 posted their jobs on Indeed or Monster.com, lol. I kind of like the idea that he wasn't this brilliant student or amazingly skilled guy and that he was ordinary and not necessarily brilliant, but I wish the show had thought even a little bit about how he ended up at TW then. I mean Gwen was supposed to be ordinary too, but it was pretty apparent the show really wanted us to see her as unique and special and the most brilliant person ever, but even though Ianto managed some pretty remarkable feats I never got the impression the writers actually intended him to be that remarkable. Lol! The show was always so over the top in the cringiest ways with Gwen.

I assume Taylor is telling the truth because we were never given a motive for him to lie and he's been pretty consistent about being raped. If the show wanted me to doubt his word then they should have done more than vague innuendo. I also have no problem buying that Eric believes it wasn't rape because Taylor initially wanted it and seemed up for it being rough and was only upset after the fact. But then again Eric never really struck me as the type to worry about his partner being too drunk or drugged to consent or wonder why they might be upset afterwards beyond being "a little bitch", but that doesn't mean it wasn't rape. Maybe if he'd shown even a hint of awareness of that kind of distinction it would be easier for me to take his word as gospel. I know that's kind of where the show wanted me to be by the end, to see both boys as equally plausible, but I guess they didn't really succeed with me. Eric just kind of gave me the creeps whenever he talked about the rape. The stuff with the black principal didn't make a ton of sense to me (he's a bad principal because he suspended two boys for beating up another kid and this earns him a firing because everyone's first thought including your allies is to throw you under a bus?), but I think in the long run I thought he was smart to take the money and get the hell out of that crappy work environment. I'm sure he didn't think so of course. I enjoyed the season largely because of the acting, but I wasn't terribly satisfied. The rape felt more like a hook than an actual storyline, but even the school shooting and the poor school storyline felt the same way. Now that it's over maybe I'll watch it again to see if I still feel the same way.

Ben Stone will always have my heart, but I have a soft spot for Jack too despite how often he crossed the line. I never warmed to Abby, but Jamie's grown a lot on me in repeats.

I'm intrigued somewhat by who the killer is so there's that, I guess, but I can see why the ratings are kind of crap. I feel the idea is more interesting than the execution so far and I can't say I found it all that funny, not even because how offensive it's clearly trying to be because I honestly wasn't even all that offended by it just because the attempts at humour just weren't that good. I like the premise and maybe the show will settle down enough and not just rely on offensiveness for its own sake and actually turn into something decent, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm guessing/hoping the season is self-contained so there's some resolution by the end of the season.

True which is probably why I'll wait until there's a sense of the final product. I am surprised/ pleased that these are set pre the end of s2 so we theoretically get the old gang back although I haven't heard anything about Owen returning and there's apparently only one audio that involves the whole team which seems a bit of a shame.

My favourite rant of hers is probably the one in The Candidate when she has the debate with Wilson Brickett and finally loses her cool. Also the one when she ends up having to do jury duty and loses it with her fellow jurors because she's desperate to get out so she can go and have dinner with the Carters and the vote keeps stalling. "Are you intending to mime your vote?"

I feel like he's so obviously up to no good that if this show was like Murder She Wrote or something we'd find out he's a red herring, but here I'm not entirely sure of his motive and not in a good way. His actions only really make sense if he's guilty of the killing otherwise why go to so much effort to turn a suicide into murder and then not even really effectively?

LOL! Be careful what you wish for. It is Torchwood after all.

I loved this show so much. Still one of my favourite series.

I feel like in the same way that his family don't really get just how much being convicted and being on death row for 20 years damaged him and that just because he's finally out doesn't mean everything goes back to normal I don't think he really gets how much what happened affected his family.

From interviews I get the feeling they want to leave it open-ended, but I hope they don't since they've made the 'who dunnit' of her death such a part of the story so far.

We don't know that he is innocent. Right now we're assuming or want to believe that he's innocent. I'm not convinced he raped her, but I won't be surprised if it turned out he killed her. Assuming we ever find out the truth.

I have a certain amount of sympathy for him too.

Their deaths got to me and also Trish's death, maybe because of the reveal that came with it.

Me too. And Charles Michael Davis. I pretty much started watched The Originals because of the promo ads showing him. But I think right now my biggest crush is Daniel Gillies. Even his weird hobo hippie beard in Broken Kingdom hasn't killed it. I think maybe the only person who has a bigger crush on him than me right now is Paul Wesley.

Yeah there was something that looked like it began with a d and then the rest was blurred by the explosion. May he was trying to write Blaine did the killings or 'Blaine' then 'Don't eat the food cos it's made of brains'.

He wrote Blaine's name on the wall.