Ziggy

I hate to admit it, but the only reason I know that ether is flammable is because Claire told me. I would be willing to bet that Joe could sign off on a birth certificate for Mandy, but I don't know that a hospital would require that. They might today, but I don't know that they would in 1980 (ish). Getting a Social Security Number at birth didn't begin until the late 1980s and didn't become common until 1991. Also, I realize that illegal immigration is a concern today, but I wouldn't think a hospital would automatically report a father just because he had a Scottish accent. Even if a patient's mother/father appeared to be from a country south of the US (not to be racist, just because that's what we hear about most in the news), I don't think employees routinely called INS. I don't think Roger would really be in danger of being departed, even today.

I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to imply that you needed to read the books or that the show didn’t need to explain it. I thought I was responding to your comment, “I suppose the book explains things better?” I just meant that if you were curious, I would be happy to tell you.

I (and I'm sure many others) would LOVE to tell you how it plays out in the book, but you need to ask in the Book Thread.

You bring up good points, but I don't think they're planning to just go to the hospital like a normal patient. I'm pretty sure they are going to call Joe specifically. If he brings them into the hospital, paperwork and insurance become formalities. And, realistic or not, the scenes we saw of Frank and Claire in Boston give the impression that the family was very well off. I think we are to assume that Bree has more than enough money in the bank to cover Mandy's surgery.

That is exactly how I assume it happens. I don’t remember if we saw Clair tell Joe about time travel, but I definitely got the impression she told him the whole story - where/when she was going.

Do you remember when that was? I have no recollection.

I was wondering the same thing. Hopefully someone can remind me.

As others said, it's so hard to respond without giving anything away. The end of Season 1 was not the end of Book 1, but I thought it made a really good season finale. We finally got so many of the questions that had been building. Also, Miller and the crew of the Roci finally met, and that was very satisfyingly to me. This episode is the ending of Book 1, so it really is a conclusion of sorts. The next episode marks the beginning of Book 2, so the world expands and new characters are introduced. I'm with you on the Miller and Julie "romance" being ... less romantic and, dare I say, creepie? In earlier episodes it seemed as though Miller was beginning to care for her. And I was fine with that. But it became weird in the end.

When I first saw Bella's picture, I thought, "Wow, she looks just like Ashley Johnson!" Then I learned that Ashley Johnson is the voice of Ella in the game. When this episode opened, I thought, ok, now I know why they did that! I think Bella is great! But I also thing it's cool that she looks like Ashley and it worked to give Ashley the role of Bella's mom.

That part made me cry! It's just so honest and relatable.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one :-)

I hear what you're saying, and I was off base with what I said. I really stink at summarizing my thoughts, and what I'm trying to convey often gets lost because I use too many words. What I was trying to say is that lots of people read the cards, and his words have an impact. Some people will only be influenced by his words and not by his actions. I was trying to say that, in a sense, his words are his actions. But also, I think that speaking about divisive subjects is not contrary to "loving one another." The two are not mutually exclusive. Being loving doesn't mean never speaking up when you disagree with something. I've, personally, never felt any of his cards were hateful. I just didn't always agree with what he said.

I don’t really know anything about Chuck Lorre or his personal life, so I might be completely off base in my understanding of the situation. But I’m not so sure that “talk is cheap” is very fitting here. Clearly people read his vanity cards and are affected by what he has to say. To me, that tells us that talk is most definitely not cheap because there are many very strong opinions about what he says in those cards. I feel like I am hearing far too much these days is if you don’t agree with me on one thing, we can’t be friends. (You’re either with me or against me.) I read his cards occasionally. Most of the time they make me laugh or smile. Occasionally I think to myself, “Nope, totally disagree,” and that’s ok. It shouldn’t translate into oh no he’s a horrible human being. Just so happens I disagree with him on that subject. When I read the most recent vanity card I thought “Yep, that’s a good reminder for all of us.” But maybe others felt like Lorre was pointing fingers saying, “You all need to be more loving,” and not realizing that it applies to him, as well?

Agreed. I went to college in the 90s. RA's might not tell residents to turn down the music just because it's 10:00 (even if that's the rule), but if someone complained, they would deal with it. I even knocked on someone's door and asked (nicely) if they could turn down their music. It wasn't an issue. It was amusing, but that storyline seemed ridiculously unrealistic.

I'm saying, faith and life are not mutually exclusive. Faith and the law are not mutually exclusive. It's not always one or the other. Of course people who work in law enforcement should follow the law. How they behave and how they treat people is important, also. The examples you gave are examples of people misunderstanding their faith and not following it correctly. And that could be because their church leaders are doing a poor job, and those individuals are stuck in a childlike, very cut and dry, view of their faith. I disagree that we are getting off topic, because I think Mary is stuck in that child-line faith. She is following rules because they are rules. She hasn't learned to think for herself or deal with situations when life gets messy and the answer isn't super easy. What I'm really trying to say is, there are examples in this world of people who do not always make good choices in the name of religion. That doesn't mean that everyone who tries to live their faith is wrong to do so.

That's actually my point, as well. It is ideal that people make a distinction between teachings that churches have because (in theory) following them brings one closer to God and teachings that exist because not following them is hurtful to others. The examples you listed are all examples that some religions believe will bring a person closer to God. Religion also teaches respecting others and not judging others. Churches and religious people often fail at this crucial tenet. This has EVERYTHING to do with Georgie's storyline. Mary is struggling with her faith because following the rules didn't put her on the easy road. So she now needs to rethink the point of the teachings. Mary's church is behaving badly and not actually following their faith. The show's portrayal is very, very accurate! And there is a huge difference between living your faith and projecting your faith on others. There are situations that present moral dilemmas, but that will happen to all of us, whether we chose religion or not.

I'm not sure what teachings you might be thinking of. I don't know of any laws that a police officer or prosecutor would be following that would conflict with their faith. I don’t mean to say that there will never be ethical dilemmas. That’s life. Life is not easy, peezy, 100% cut and dry. When it comes to laws, we’re really just talking about whether or not our actions might harm another human being. Murder, stealing, sexual assault, speeding, driving recklessly … those are all against the law, and those can all result in very bad things for other people. Georgie choosing to have sex outside of marriage might be against the teachings of Mary’s church, but it’s not something that is punishable by law. It’s also something that not everyone would think is morally wrong. If a police officer would try to impose that type of teaching on someone else, I would absolutely have a problem with that. But I do not believe there are laws (or at least none that I can think of) that a police officer would be opposed to enforcing based on their faith.

Other people are going to remember this so much better than me, but here goes anyway. There was a BBT episode when they were trying to decide which movie theater to go to and Sheldon was debating Icee versus Slushy and Red Vines versus Twizzlers and where they were going to have dinner before the show. He ended up not going at all because he would have had to settle for Twizzlers Instead of Redvines (or something like that). Just saying, these are Sheldon’s priorities. Having fun often gets lost.

I think Mary is a fair representation of many religious people. Many, but by no means all. There are honestly some people who are very similar to her. She strikes me as someone who is very new to the faith. She is following the teachings as she understand them, and she believes that following those teachings will bring good things for her and her family. I'm just not sure she has really questioned them. This is something that one needs to do in order to grow in faith. You have to challenge your beliefs and not be afraid when others challenge them. Her family challenges her, to an extent, and she does not have answers for many of their challenges. Ideally, as she grows, she will have better answers but she will also allow herself to let go of some of her "beliefs" is she concludes that the challenges are valid. Growing in faith is a process, and no one is ever finished. I've never seen Blue Bloods, but I don't really understand what you mean. Following your faith ideally means that your faith has helped to form your conscience, so it should influence all aspects of your life. If should mean that decisions you make are influenced by trying to do what God would want you to do. I wouldn't think this would be exclusive only to people who belong to a church or a religion. I think most of us do try to do the right thing. Being a part of a faith community can strengthen and encourage people and hold them accountable. It doesn't necessarily make them any better at doing the right thing than anyone else. I think the show is doing an excellent job of depicting how some people view religion and how some churches behave. It doesn't represent everyone, because that's simply not possible.

Totally with you here!!! Hoping for the best, but not going to be happy Laura Donnelly is not coming back!

Absolutely, but sometimes, people just need a little time to grieve. It's not wrong. It's just human.

I really think most people know that this type of thing can and does happen in many churches. I also think that many people who have a problem with religion are looking at examples like this and failing to realize the many, many (many) good things that churches do and they many ways that they contribute to their communities and beyond. It saddens me a great deal that you felt the need to classify Catholics and Protestants as something other than Christian. As a life-long Catholic, I can tell you that I am most definitely a Christian! I would be very interested in learning why you believe otherwise.

You're not wrong, but when something goes wrong and you're in the thick of it, it's human nature to respond the way they are responding. It's human nature to get down and have trouble not wallowing. Personally, I have had a few things happen recently that really got me down. Nothing like what the Coopers are going through (no job losses or unwanted pregnancies), but a couple of rough patches. After a few days, things were better and the world looked different and I was able to realize that I didn't have it so bad. I started to have a better perspective and see just how good my life was.

I’m not sure Mary realizes there’s a difference. Please don’t get me wrong. My family and I are very involved in our church. But we and most people I know recognized that churches aren’t perfect and people aren’t perfect. I’m not sure Mary considered that before. Sure she has disagreed with Pastor Jeff from time to time, but it was always little things. Mary’s been pretty blindsided by this.

I wanted Mary to say, “I’m not walking away from God. I’m walking away from you,” and then shut the door. News flash, Pastor Jeff, you and your congregation are not God!