Wayward Son

Sorry, if my post came across as a board wide you. I was referring specifically to @catrox14, since I was directly responding to her quoted post about the Kripke interview which mentioned a battle between "Good Dean and evil Sam" at that point :). But yay I'm glad someone else agrees with me :) . I'm glad the writers strike worked for you as well @Aeryn13 . I also think it would have grown stale very fast! I could see them making Dean track down Dark!Sam in a game of cat and mouse work for a season, but I think it would have been far too dragged out if they'd tried to do it across two seasons.

Sorry yes I meant the Levithian tablet and the sudden focus on angels and Demons again in the last few episodes. Of course I'm just speculating, but the sudden shift back to them after Gamble had moved away from them came across as very Carveresque to me. I think from quite early in the shows run, or at least as early as season three, Kripke envisioned the show ending with an epic battle between Sam and Dean. I can't find the original interview, which I find immensely annoying, but Kripke revealed the need to shorten season three dramatically altered the resolution of the Dean's demon deal storyline. Originally Dean was not going to go to hell. Kripke was initially adamant that there would be no Angels on the show despite the attempts of writers such as Gamble to persuade him otherwise. Instead Sam was going to fully embrace his demonic abilities and use them to save Dean from the pit. Unfortunately, this would come at the price of Sam's humanity and he would go full blown dark side. However, the shortened season meant they didn't have the time needed to do this and so Dean was ultimately sent to hell and the dark Sam stuff was pushed back to season four. On the other hand, the dark Sam stuff was originally much darker than what we actually got! The original seasons 4 and 5 would have been spent with Dean trying to track down and save Sam. However, Sam was going to be irredeemable, driven mad by whatever power he used to save Dean, and the show would have ended with Dean having to kill Sam to protect humanity and the man he once was. With that in mind it's perfectly in character for Kripke to have shifted this battle to one between Michael possessed Dean and Lucifer possessed Sam during season five. I believe it was the influence of Sera that led to just Sam being caged so that the soulless Sam storyline could begin. If they had both been put in the cage it would have probably been difficult to explain why Dean came back normal, but Sam lacked his soul. Honestly, I'm glad the writing strike happened, and not just because it resulted in the introduction of one of my favourite characters, but because it prevented this original ending. I know you'll disagree, since I know you hate Swan Song and the last third of season 5, but what we got in the end was infinitely better than that original storyline IMO. The idea of the show ending with one brother killing the other is absolutely abhorrent to me. IMO it would have been such an awful smack in the face to those who had spent five years invested in the brothers bond. I'm not saying the show needed to end with rainbows and unicorns, but both brothers in the cage together, or Sam in the cage and Dean on earth is infinitely better than it concluding in Dean stabbing Sam like he was just another monster.

That's how I think he would have ended things @DittyDotDot . Castiel would have went to heaven to fix up heaven and ensure the angels go back to simply observing, Sam and Dean would have been in the cage and Bobby would be dead! As I mentioned, IMO some of the direction of the last part of season 5 such as Sam being the only one to go into the cage was influenced by Gamble and the storylines she had in mind for season 6. I also think the same happened again at the end of season 7 with the introduction of the Levitian tablet. It was a very Carver plot point IMO, as it served to bring the angels and demons back into prevalence after Gamble had shifted away from them for most of season 7.

If I remember correctly by the time the episode aired they knew the show was going to be renewed, but they did not know it while they were filming the episode so it was intended as a series finale just in case. @Commando Cody ETA: Actually I was wrong! I found the following article from the time which announced the shows renewal http://m.uk.ign.com/articles/2010/02/17/supernatural-renewed-for-season-6 which was posted in February! However, Swan Song was still considered a finale of sorts. It was the end of Kripke's plan for the show so that Gamble could start with a fresh canvas. I suspect some of the things leading into the next season like Sam in the cage were more Gamble than Kripke!

I honestly think it was planned to be Castiel / Crowley behind the scenes from the start, but @Myrelle's suggestion that it was a change of plan would explain Gamble's original intent to character assassinate Castiel and then write him out of the show without any sort of redemptive arc. What I mean is, if it was something forced on her by negative fan reaction it'd explain a lack of interest in a proper follow up. I'll say no more because further ranting would belong in the bitterness thread.

And because the tweet cuts off the main point of the joke! I will up Jared's offer and say Misha is invited to move in with me anytime he wants :p hahahah

+ Faith + Something Wicked -- Phantom Traveler 62 - Faith 29 - Pilot 29- Scarecrow 24 - Something Wicked 19 - The Benders 16- Devil's Trap 13- Asylum 11 - Phantom Traveler 11 - Dead in the Water They went on a hunting trip. And they haven't been home in a few days. 22. Bugs 21. Route 666 20. Dead Man's Blood 19. Nightmare 18. Hook Man 17. Wendigo 16. Hell House 15. Shadow 14. Home 13. Salvation 12. Skin 11 Provenance 10 Bloody Mary

It would be interesting if the meta was right! The last time the show took that approach was in season 6! First it seemed like soulless Sam and the Campbells would be the antagonists of the season, then the mother of all before the ultimate reveal that it was actually Castiel and Crowley behind everything! Im not saying that'll happen again or anything! Just that's the last time the show did this noir mystery type reveal.

I want Castiel to make a hunter friend or even a regular human outside of the brothers! The show can't seem to create half decent angels any more, and if they have to have him in B storylines I'd love for him to have a relatable and interesting character for a friend! And most importantly someone who genuinelycares for him! Not "brothers" (im referring to how the angels address each other not the Winchester's) who are only playing nice so they can set him up.

This is probably out there and not what the show is going for... But how much do the British Man of Letter's know about the brothers history? For instance do they know about Dean's death at the end of No Rest for the Wicked or the mutual death in Point of No Return? I've seen numerous people post that Ketch's decision to surveillance the brothers rather than out right kill them is nonsensical. However, what if their reason for doing so is they hope to catch a hint on how to not just kill the brothers, but a method that will ensure they stay dead.

You're correct this happened in the season two episode Killed By Death. The monster of the week was actually a demon called Der Kindestod rather than the actual angel of Death, and it was the flu Buffy injected herself with I believe! Sorry Buffy nerd here. In regards to the storyline on Supernatural. Didn't they do this with Sam during The Born Again Identity? There was a ghost hunt, but we weren't certain was it reality or a part of Sam's rapid mental detoriation? And then they did something similar with the wraith's affect on both brothers in Sam Interrupted?

I'm watching the Devil's Road Map featurette for Home. The following comment by Sera Gamble really stood out to me Sera: "I have a younger brother, Im an older sister so when I approach scenes between Sam and Dean I tend to really understand where Dean is coming from" I think it stood out to me because, even though I've always seen Sera as an equal lover of the brothers, I know many in fandom regard her as a Sam girl. So I found it an interesting perspective on where she was coming from while writing :)

+ Faith + Something Wicked -- Phantom Traveler 61 - Faith 29 - Pilot 28- Scarecrow 25 - Something Wicked 19 - The Benders 16 - Phantom Traveler 15 - Dead in the Water 15 - Asylum 15 - Devil's Trap They went on a hunting trip. And they haven't been home in a few days. 22. Bugs 21. Route 666 20. Dead Man's Blood 19. Nightmare 18. Hook Man 17. Wendigo 16. Hell House 15. Shadow 14. Home 13. Salvation 12. Skin 11 Provenance 10 Bloody Mary

I just finished watching The Devil's Road Map featurette for the season one finale Devil's Trap! I found it quite interesting! Some things to be learnt from it. • It was director Bob Singer's idea to cast Jim Beaver as Bobby Singer! • It was Eric Kripke who decided to name him after Singer! (I knew this already!) • Originally it was meant to be Dean kidnapped by Meg. The finale would have focused on the tension filled relationship between Sam and John as they were forced to work together without Dean to act as a mediator. They had to scrape this and make John the kidnapee when JDM was needed for a significant role in Grey's Anatomy. • With hindsight Kripke believes the revised version to be the better version. He thinks it was great to allow the boys to fulfill their two main goals of the season, find John and find the YED, at once by having them share the same body. • Kripke considers the scene where Sam faces the decision of whether to shoot possessed John or not the culmination of season one. It covers "every single emotional issue, every single plot issue, every single issue and thread we had all season came together in one scene". The issues he specifies include; Sam's desire for revenge against the yellow eyed demon, Dean's love for his family and desire to keep everyone safe, Sam's troubled relationship with John i.e that he hates and resents him and yet loves him deep down.

My thoughts on these pics are mixed! I'm hoping from these pics that Cas is the one who rescues Kelly from Dagon. There are similar wooden pillars in the picture of her on the ground and the picture of Cas standing holding the colt! Kelly doesn't seem to look distressed by his presence either so I'm hoping his solution doesn't involve harm to her and the baby! On the other hand, I suspect Cas will be the one who ends up stealing the colt! Ugh.

Quick question; has a Winchester other than Sam been shown to host Lucifer or have anything to do with him? I agree with those who have been saying that the Winchester's were the Michael line, which is why John and Adam were also capable of holding him, and the Campbell line was the Lucifer line? That would allow Mary to be host Lucifer indefinitely (or at least as long as the show wants to do that plot). It would then be a case of Dean (and Adam) inherited the Winchester vessel genes while Sam inherited the Campbell vessel genes. OR all three inherited the Winchester vessel genes and that's why Sam had to take galleons of demon blood! The blood altered Sam's psyche so his archangel capable status changed from being tuned on Michael to being tuned on Lucifer. The only snag in that plan is Pellegrino's series regular status suggests he'll be around for a while.

I'm thinking Castiel's time in heaven will definitely be resolved by the end of the season! It'll most likely be resolved in the next episode! I also think the cosmic consequences will be resolved, as I still believe he is going to die before the end of the current season. If he doesn't die then I think the cosmic consequences will continue into next year as it looks like he will only be in two more episodes this year 12x19 and 12x23. If he doesn't die I could see Cas' personal cliffhanger being some sort of reveal in relation to it. In regards to the brothers Im thinking the BMoL storyline will be wrapped up by the end of episode twenty two. I recall reading tweets that stated that the main people associated with that storyline i.e. the actor playing Ketch and the actress playing Lady Toni were no longer in Vancouver for the filming of the finale. With the Man of Letters wrapped up I think the finale will then focus fully on the Lucifer and Nepilim storyline! I wouldn't be surprised if one of the big cliffhangers of the season is the nepilihms birth and that whole saga / Lucifer's presence in general was dragged over into season 13. I honestly have no ideas / theories on what is going to happen with Mary!

Hi sorry, I wasn't clear! What I meant was that (as I said in previous posts) I don't think there'd be a reason for them to end this season differently as the show has already been renewed for season 13 and the main writing will have finished by the time the strike starts! I was just adding to that point from previous post to say that I don't think season 13 should have Dean goes to hell style changes as they should enter the season aware of how many episodes the season will consist of and plot accordingly. So basically what I'm saying is that IMO the only influence the strike should have on the show is the length of season 13. I don't think there will be any dramatic storylines change to this season or next due to the timing of the strike, which should take place after 12 finishes and before 13 starts.

I believe a key difference this time is the time in writing that would be affected. The last strike took place between November and February which meant the writing for the middle to the end of the season was affected. This meant when the strike ended Supernatural had four or five episodes to finish the season compared to the eleven or twelve they envisioned. That's why plot lines planned for a 23 episode season had to be dropped so they could wrap things up in 16 episodes. This time however the strike is due to begin at the start of May, which is when most shows are only beginning their season. This means writing can't begin until after the strike is finished. Therefore, if the strikes occurs the writing team should be going into the season knowing how many episodes the (presumably) shortened season will consist of and they can plot the overall season accordingly from the very beginning.

I would say if the strike goes ahead that the season would be most likely shortened at the very least! The way I understand it is that the writers begin writing for the new season in May so that filming can then proceed in July. Since the writing strike is due to start early May (if it goes ahead) this means there will be a delay in the start of writing!

It's getting harder now! I actually like all of the episodes still in. The only easy choice is that I won't be voting for Faith, Something Wicked, Pilot or Devil's Trap anytime soon! I absolutely adore those four :) + Faith + Something Wicked -- Phantom Traveller 61 - Faith 30 - Something Wicked 29 - Scarecrow 29 - Pilot 19 - Phantom Traveler 19 - Dead in the Water 19 - The Benders 15 - Asylum 14 - Devil's Trap They went on a hunting trip. And they haven't been home in a few days. 22. Bugs 21. Route 666 20. Dead Man's Blood 19. Nightmare 18. Hook Man 17. Wendigo 16. Hell House 15. Shadow 14. Home 13. Salvation 12. Skin 11 Provenance 10 Bloody Mary

So to clarify is it only the pluses that are worth one now? The negatives are still worth two?

++ Faith ++ Something Wicked -- Skin 59 - Faith 31 - Scarecrow 31 - Something Wicked 29 - Pilot 25 - Phantom Traveler 21 - Dead in the Water 21 - The Benders 17 - Asylum 13 - Devil's Trap 03 - Bloody Mary 03 - Provenance 01 - Skin They went on a hunting trip. And they haven't been home in a few days. 22. Bugs 21. Route 666 20. Dead Man's Blood 19. Nightmare 18. Hook Man 17. Wendigo 16. Hell House 15. Shadow 14. Home 13. Salvation

Voted :)

OH! Now I feel stupid! I thought it was Jared and Genevieve's way of making some money for charity off the never ending fandom debate about the spelling of Cas' name. - Goes and hides red faced in the corner-