insomniadreams88

So, the 613 photos. I feel like there's not enough Oliver? Way too much Black Siren. Way too many masks. I had a feeling we wouldn't get any photos of Felicity and I hate that I was right.

My exact reaction. I'm going to need her former association with the League to be the only mention of it. Once. They're allowed one League mention and that is it. True. Maybe she can kill Dragon. Then it would make having to revisit any part of the League worth it.

Arrow: seems to somehow still expect us to want NTA to rejoin the team at some point. Also Arrow: gives us OTA acting like the adults to NTA’s whiny kids, may have Thea suiting up again (based on a BTS photo) and brings back Roy, Nyssa and Lyla, all people who can work with OTA when needed and who I’d trust to help when needed more than NTA (especially given NTA’s actions in 612) Who will they bring back next? Rory? (I may never let that go. I’d even take his rags back even though they were ridiculous. Give me back the one newbie I liked!)

Wow. I don’t even know where to start. So forget about all the other people she killed? Including the guard who brought up his family and the fact Cayden told her she didn’t have to kill him? NTA’s “loyalty” comes from Rene and Curtis wanting to go against OTA. Rene didn’t even think about his daughter’s life. They didn’t care about the bomb that can destroy the entire city. Also, I feel like Rene would sell out Curtis and Dinah to the FBI in a heartbeat. I almost want that to happen, just to see how they react.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they did. Isnt this the same site that didn’t put Olicity for sexiest moment but put hand holding or a face touch from another show for one of its polls?

Sadly, I’m not surprised by the clip choice.

A problem is that Lance is also risking the lives of people who have had his back and saved him in the past for ... a villain who happens to look like his dead daughter but has tried to kill everyone in the past and worked with the main villains the past 2 years? What if instead of looking at the photos of E1 LL, BS had attacked Lance and then Thea had come in to protect him and BS had made good on her whole putting her back in a coma line from 609? And it looks like BS ends up in ARGUS in 615. A teenager got her out of their custody last season. Say someone breaks her out again and they kill ARGUS guards. It seems like Lance is saying, “these other lives - including the life of the boyfriend of a woman who helped me keep a secret all summer - don’t matter as long as there’s a woman who looks like my daughter out there. And it’s not even about who she could be. It’s about who I want her to be, which is my dead daughter.”

My problem with Lance’s insistence about BS is I’m starting to wonder if there’s anything she could do that would get him off the “there’s part of my daughter in her” kick. What if she killed one of the team? Thea? Tried to kill William? Set off a bomb that destroyed a large part of the city and killed hundreds? I just don’t get how he sees this ending.

I’m thinking 614.

At this point, I feel like BS could kill a bus full of children and there would be some people going, "She can be redeemed!" I don't get why people are so against just letting BS be evil? If E1 LL were still alive, no one would be talking about redeeming BS - fans, Lance, etc. If somehow E1 LL showed up, everyone would immediately want BS killed/shipped off to another Earth/locked up because she wouldn't be the "real LL."

Is it just me or do we still not know exactly why ARGUS took Cayden? What made him more dangerous than every other hacker out there that ARGUS needed to take him into custody? And considering 613 is his last episode, I don't think we ever will know?

Rewatch observations: How long did Dinah and Vince know each other? I always thought they had a longer history than these FBs showed. Didn't Dinah act like that last season or am I not remembering correctly? The two teams split the city. Curtis and Rene plan to meet Vince in OTA's section. Huh? And I hate Curtis' "We were going to tell you guys...eventually" even more the second time. I swear the newbies keep looking for reasons to hate on OTA. "Is Felicity bugging us again?" (611) "Did Oliver push you do to this?" (612) Felicity saves Vince and does she even get a "thank you"? Someone tell me how Dinah thought Vince would get himself out of that situation at that very moment. Knock Cayden out and run? Lance to BS: "I see the same warmth, kindness, the love, and I see a hero." Hey, Lance, tell that to everyone she's killed. Rene telling Oliver to "figure out a way" to find the bomb without them ... Ugh. The problem is that sometimes, a line sounds better or at least not as bad the second time around. The newbies' lines somehow end up sounding even worse.

Thea: "Black Siren killed Vince." BS: "I like killing." Lance: "You can still be good maybe!" I DON'T GET IT. PB deserves better.

Other things that bothered me: Curtis’ comment about Felicity and Alena’s reaction to finding the bomb not being appropriate or whatever he said (don’t feel like rewatching now). Really, Curtis? I don’t think I told him to shut up for that in the live thread, so I’ll say it here - shut up, Curtis. Dinah saying they put Vince in the position he was in once she realized he was caught. He chose to go undercover. What exactly was he going to do, never actually do something to try to stop Cayden that could get him caught? Just keep hanging out undercover? He chose to go in. They didn’t force him. The fact that I feel like Vince treated Felicity with more respect in one single exchange - asking about the risks of the mission - than Rene, one of her former teammates, does/has. (That could also be because I really can’t stand Rene’s attitude.)

I wonder if Vince would’ve ended up dead if Dinah hadn’t gone after him. What if the newbies had gone with Oliver and Diggle? No distraction means Vince wouldn’t have escaped that room, right? (Presumably, since he hadn’t yet.) Do we think Cayden would have had BS kill him there or do we think he wanted it done in front of Dinah and therefore maybe Vince would still be alive? Or there would at least be the possibility that he’d still be alive?

Am I the only one who feels like we've seen nothing to suggest that the newbies even care a little bit about Star City? They choose going to get Vince over a bomb threatening the entire city (including Vince, so, you know). They took 5 weeks off to pout/whine, then took a week to set up their lair and then only acted when Vince contacted them and then followed up on his info.

Yep. I continue to see nothing from Dragon that should make me want to see more of him/think he can be any sort of team leader/anything more than a thug who just happens to have a name.

When Cayden was talking about the guy Vince killed, I expected someone at the table to go, "who?"

You know what surprises me? How Arrow manages to find ways for me to hate the newbies even more with every episode. I'm actually kind of impressed. I don't know what's worse, Rene's digs about the team, Curtis in general or now Dinah's attitude post-Vince's death. (Although, let her kill Black Siren.) I never want them to rejoin the team. Ever. I want them to leave town, this Earth, anything. Have the Legends leave them back in time somewhere, without any weapons/tech/etc. I'm all for keeping Alena and getting rid of Curtis permanently. Let her be T-sphere operator. And then Felicity can have a friend I actually like, especially after it seems like they're trying to make it seem like Felicity and Curtis are still friends - their convo as they walked into Helix - despite his digs at her. I hate it. (FYI, I will be so mad if it turns out Alena's playing Felicity. I don't think she is, but if she is... I will be so mad.) Give me more married Olicity talking about their honeymoon and being married and hugging in the bunker. For every newbie scene we have to tolerate, I expect an Olicity one. And every time one of the newbies dares say something bad about OTA/some stupid comment like Rene's, we get 3 Olicity scenes. Way too much Dinah/Vince. Way too much Dinah. But even though Vince tried to kill Oliver last year, I'd still take him over the newbies. At least Thea's off the "Black Siren can be redeemed/Laurel!" train. I wish this would be enough to get Lance off it, but I doubt it. No, but seriously, I can't see any argument for a redemption for BS because there is NO REASON why she couldn't have killed Cayden instead of Vince. None whatsoever. She's powerful enough to kill a guy who heals, but she can't kill a hacker because ... No, really, someone tell me why. As for the "evidence" sent to Cayden ... I feel like he should've gone over it and figured out it was faked? I guess we can blame his grief for that?

"Starting with Laurel." Well, that's okay.

Are you kidding me, Dinah?

"I think we might have been wrong about Laurel." THANK GOD.

Way too much Dinah this episode, between the FBs and present day.

Don't you know that BS didn't want to kill him but totally had to because there's no way she could've turned on Cayden instead because ...?

Someone explain to me why we're ever supposed to want the newbies to rejoin the team? Ever?