MDKNIGHT

Thanks guys for clearing that up for me.

I hope the continuity will make sense. IF Kenya is NOT Kenya then why would she really be chained and try to escape when she was NOT on the phone with Amanda. The whole thing could have been play acted if she's a fake. OTOH why would the real Kenya not kill the dude when he was down ? and why would they leave her unchained to be picked up by Ammanda? I know Stahma is evil but I had hoped she would at least be loyal to her thugs since they put her in power. the big dude was right that if she reconciles with Datak for selfish reasons the thugs are dead and therefore they have no reason to be loyal to her. I get she likes Datak's animal sex thing (or she just used it to get him to do what she wanted or a bit of both) but she has to use her brain and not her naughty bits to plan things. Otherwise she becomes Datak-i.e. don't think just react emotionally. Is it me or are the Rosewater sisters particularly good hand to hand fighters for people who weigh like 70 pounds? I'mm looking forward to Stahmah's facial reaction when she finds out Kenya is in town. I posited before that it would be funny if Castis get DARKER when they are frightened...Hey Stahma you look positively tanned. You look like you've just seen a ghost!

Good point CletusMuashi. BTW it may be speciest of me but the way the characters in the club (well only Mercado and Christie since we haven't heard from others) talk I think there is something wierd about thier dress up. Like they both seem so DESPERATE about it. Kind of like the difference between dressing up as a vampire for Halloween and getting so wrapped up in your vampire persona that it affects your real life. Mercado seemed to worship the Castis despite the fact that we haven't seen all that much to admire. He seemed to be overly impressed with their apparent theft of the Irathian's planet. It is sort of like worhiping the Nazis for have successfully taken Poland and France. It doesn't seem like good clean fun. It comes across like at the very least a kink and at worst a tragic obsession.

Reading a recap of this ep elsewhere they mentioned that Marco sees "Sebastian Cerisola". Who is Sebastian Cerisola? I don't remember the character. Allegedly he is in the scene with Galvan and Marco.

I've stayed in several of the casinos. I think I'd stay at the Ventian although establishing the eternal RenFest at the Excaliber might be fun. I don't know where they are getting food from though. I think the LAST place you want to be in an apocalypse is the desert. It is an interesting twist on the - Where would you go in the zombie apocalypse? since the angels can scale walls and some fly which would not be problems with zombies. Honestly I don't think that the civilization we see on this show would have held out. The angels should have beaten them already. Maybe under neath it all the mythos is that God really DOES want humanity to survive.

Gosh I'm glad I didn't waste hours reading that. Thanks people. On the Beach had a pretty downer ending too. I think most of the nuclear apocalypse books/movies did since I think at the time we were trying to discourage the US and Soviet Union from taking it that far. It is so funny that we went from feeling WWIII was eminent to feeling pretty secure THAT isn't going to get us but some super bug WILL. I wonder what people 50 years from now will think is going to get us for sure.

Given the description here, I'm glad the show isn't following the book. What is similar to gang rape for the sake of procreation would be really hard to watch. Since I now have no intention of reading the book how DOES it end? I think it would be harder to survive nuclear winter than a pandemic.

I think the miners are happy with the extra money but there is a down side to being occupied and if/when the E-reps curtail their freedom to an unacceptable level there is going to be thought of revolution. I'm sure Datak and Rafe aren't the only two people who want the E-rep out and when that ball gets rolling Rafe will probably again be a big honcho and by extension Christie will again have strategic value to the Tarrs. It isn't that I don't think Stahma wouldn't kill Christie if there were a real advantage to it but as the chips are right now it just doesn't pay her to do so, AND there is NO reason for her to back Diedre. I just thought of something. I'm not sure about the ethnicity of the actors but Rafe definately looks to be Native American which would mean Christie is at least part Native American which makes her going to a club and dressing up as another group and inadvertently causing offense (becaue let's face it she didn't MEAN to piss off or insult Alak, it was all about how groovy Castis are) is actually very ironic on the writer's part because there has been contraversy for a long time about things like the Atlanta Braves' mascot and other times whites dress up as Native Americans. I wonder if any of tht factored into the writer's thinking.

Yes but not with the blessing of murderous sociopaths who are also major hypocrits. People keep saying stuff like Datak or Stahma will see something admiral by Diedre wanting to better herself because Datak worked his way up. You fail to remember that these people are narcissists. They don't admire other people. They aren't going to be charmed by the plucky hooker. IF they were soft hearted gullible people then yes they might feel a little empathy etc but they aren't. Datak didn't even have qualms about maiming his own son, What empathy is he going to show Diedre? Also the last thing Stahma wants is a hooker as wife to Alak. What the hell is in it for Stahma? They only accepted non Castithan Christie because they were planning to murder her family and then get her mines. She is now pregnant but they might get rid of her after the baby is born BUT I bet her dad gets the mines back before that becomes an issue. Diedre has her body which a lot of people have had and which Alak has had without marriage, so what is in it for the Tar family to take her in? Nothing. In a weird way she is almost as clueless as Christie about what she is dealing with. If Diedre is lucky and I mean Lotto Level of lucky she might be a mistress and I didn't get the impression Alak thinks all that much of her. But I can just see Stahma's expression if he tried to bring her home.

See if IIRC she HAS slept with Datak...as a prostitute and there is NO chance Datak is trading in Stahmah for Diedre. Also Datak is the type to think you don't buy the cow if you can have the milk for free or even for reasonable rates. And really what father even the ones that are not sociopathic patriarchal hypocritical crime lords wants their son to marry a prostitute that they themselves have had? I don't know who to bet on killing Diedre. At this point Christie is probably even money.

I'm removing my comment because the change of order of the episodes may mean it is in the wrong place.

People keep referring to where Christie went as "a Casti club." It isn't. Christie did NOT make a scene in front of Castithans as some have said upthread. She was in an underground CosPlay club. She was talking in front of humans. And not just any humans. IF I am correct about how these clubs are viewed in Defiance, it is like two gay guys in the 1950's having an argument in a secret gay club....NOBODY is going to find out about the fight because nobody who witnessed it would admit to having been there. If the writers are consistant with the Castithans being dogmatic patriarchal traditionalists then no way is Diedre marriage material and a kid of hers with Alak would be treated as a bastard in unenlightened times. Datak and Stamah put up with Alak marrying a lowly human because among humans she was wealthy and the best catch available. Yes now she isn't heir to the mines so she might be in trouble if that was all she had going for her but she is to bare the first Tar heir. So at least for now she's secure but even after that she is still an official wife and traditionally would get SOME consideration. It is only because Stahma is a murderer that she would be in any danger after the baby is born. Still Christie could be 6 ft under and Diedre would still \have ZERO chance of becoming Mrs Tar. Datak would never accept a whore into the family because part of being Castithans Is being hypocritical AND NO WAY can the son marry a whore who has been with the father. I'm sure it even specifically says so in the sacred scrolls

Where is the right place to discuss the clips of coming attractions they showed at the end of the episode? Yewell may be the greatest alien ever created. Every line was gold. "There are two kinds of friends. The kind that help you hide dead whores and me." I have never in my life seen a sex scene be as funny as when Datak stops pumping for a moment to question whether the handmaiden was saying his name over and over because she thinks he's a megalomaniac and her " no" is SOOOO fake. So Christie wants to BE Stahma, Datak wants to have sex with Stahma even if he has a younger model under him and the Tar Criminal Empire wants to listen to only Stahma.....I'm getting the impression that an Indogene scientist would make a mint if he/she could figure out how to firkin CLONE Stahma. I think it is hysterical. I loved the ep but I am a little creeped out by two things. One is that they buy slave girls in childhood who on the one hand play with your kids but on the other are expected to perform sexual acts with the father of the house. It has a really strong incest/pedephilia vibe. I got the impression that the girl's servi e to Datak was something both he and Stahma found perfectly acceptable. Second I think it is sad when people worship a foreign culture especially if the culture they worship is so DEEPY flawed like the Casti's. They treat women as chattel and seem to have not evolved CULTURALY in thousands of years. They may have more advanced tech than us but are not better than us. An example to illustrate what I mean...if you have space ships but you have slavery you have tech we Americans don't have but have a social order the US gave up in the 1800's. The Civil Rights of the 60's would be another example of a culture evolving etc. We have evolved a lot in 200 + years. We are to believe the Casti's haven't in thousands because they live by their religious scrolls. On top of that I got the feeling that the tech was largely invented by the Indogenes since they seem to be a society of scientists. So really what is it that these wackadoos worship? What about becoming Stahma so entices Christie? The Only time Stahma actually enjoys being Stahma is when she ISN'T towing the Casti line. If she were a "good" Casti wife she would have allowed Datak to beat her and never left the house. What the HELL is there to admire about that? Ironically a "good Casti wife" would have followed Alak out of the club and groveled for forgiveness. I am hoping that the way things pan out in the end shows Christie that she should be proud of being human and has her grow as a person.

I forget. How many people are on this ship? 200 something? I agree that just logistically speaking there HAS to be other ships out there. Heck some people must have been on thier yachts or cruise ship when stuff went down. The cruise ships could theoretically have docked on a tropical island. In fact while the particular one we stopped at was not an island with game on it I once took a cruise that owned it's own island. So between the thousands and thousands of military ships even civilian ships have a shot of having survived by going somewhere remote. Fiji maybe. I had argued islands probably belong to somebody but the more I think about it the more I've changed my mind and think there are probably survivors who sailed/motored to Fiji, Paulau Paulau, Indonesia, small islands of the main islands in Hawaii. sure some of them probably brought the virus with them and died if they didn't quarantine fast enough but I actually think when the chips are down people can rise to the occasion. (I actually think if such a thing were possible, and it isn't , it wouldn't be the Zombie Apocalypse...it would be the Zombie inconvenience.) And as mentioned above there are a heck of a lot of nuclear submarines.

At this point the only thing Brit Traitor would be good for is being the first human subject after they get a good response from a monkey. And he's not only so evil but so irritating that I'd consider capping him if the vaccine worked and made him immune to the virus. Come to think of it if the vaccine made him immune Professor Evil would probably release the virus after all since screwing over the good guys seems to be his only function so they really would have to kill him then.

Am I totally naive to believe somebody could be and escort and not a prostitute? If he is a prostitute I just hope he doesn't have an STD and that he isn't a gold digger. Not that many people who are not prostitutes have an STD or are gold diggers and Lea would make a good target for gold diggers and fame whores unfortunately. I've always said the ONLY bad thing about being rich is that you can never be sure if anybody really loves you for you. Even your kids may be rooting for you to die to inherit. I hope she keeps her wits about her and things turn out for the best. SOA is Sons of Anarchy right? Is she playing a biker? If I had my wish for Lea's career I would want it to be like Bette Midler...Grammy's, comedies, dramas, musicals, live stageshows, and with longevity. Some of that is luck but I do think she has the talent to pull it off. I think one thing we learned from the Carrie Underwood Sound of Music is that you can be a good singer and a terrible actress but Broadway people tend to do both really well (the second people started telling me the only thing that didn't suck was the Abess who sang Climb Every Mountain I said "I bet you she's a Broadway person" and I was right.) and Lea is definately one of those.

The thing is that in those books people DID want to go home and die. The way this was written and presented in no way (in my opinion) coveyed that idea. Dumb Chess guy and the rest of the Moron 16 SEEMED to be laboring under the REDICULOUS impression that the ship was a risky place to be and that they'd LIVE if they left. British Traitor guy specifically said that the ship was dangerous and posited that if they took HIM with them they'd all be fine and dandy, leaving those other poor suckers to die on the ship. They were so dumb that it bordered on the delusional.

Don't they teach people in the armed forces that the ENEMY can't be trusted? He can play chess and yet he's a moron. And like people said where the HELL were they going to go? You know what? I wanted the Captain to BOOT those guys and laugh his butt off when they got the virus 5 minutes after leaving the ship because you know what they were? TRAITORS. Under regular circumstances spies can be executed. Under these circumstances feeding the traitor scientist and keeping him where he can influence people to mutiny is NOT necessary. They should of hanged him already.

Personally I think the thing about the US vs the USSR as it was in the 80's that mattered to me was the answer to the questions -Who screwed thier own citizens more? -Who acted with less regard for human life and human rights MORE OFTEN? And which system gave you a better chance (not a great chance but a better one) to change things that WERE bad? I have been a fan of the US since childhood and I have always thought that the American system is the best in the world HOWEVER I do see its warts. To me when the US used/uses the same tactics as the enemy it is when it is the most disappointing BUT I maintain that the reason the right side "won" the cold war is that the Soviets just did way more bad things way more often, that we did. It was wrong for the police to beat up kids protesting the Vietnam War in th 70's regardless of whether you think the Vietnam War was a good idea. But they didn't just haul people to Siberia for disagreeing with the government. To me that has always been the bench mark of a country....what if you don't agree with the government? What happens to you? The thing is that going forward we still have to safe guard against falling into the immoral side of things as a rule, instead of as an exception, so that we CAN continue to be the best and HOPEFULLY we can become better. Because there IS room for improvement.

I just caught up with this show so I'm late to the party but I just wanted to say that I'm having difficulty thinking the Soviet Union would think their plans for Paige are likely to pan out and worth the risk. I can SORT of buy Jared's conversion. Although I would see him betraying his country for sex with a sexy Soviet spy but STILL have a hard time buying his killing his family for Mother Russia. That was kind of difficult for me to believe buy history is full of horny guys doing bad things for sex so MAYBE. But a teenaged girl raised here with at least SOME interest in religion converting to an athiest POV which ALSO means cow towing to her PARENT'S POV? Put it this way....I could see Paige picking ANY OTHER religious/political etc POV JUST to mess with her parents. If you told me her reaction to finding out her parents were Soviet spys was to become a Shaolin Nun (BTW they shave their heads just like the Shaolin Monks do as I met one once)I'd buy that before you got me to believe she'd go along with this. AND my other problem with this plan is that the Center's position would be that if she doesn't join she has to be eliminated because she's a threat to Elizabeth and Philip. Wouldn't you think they'd value them as assets and not want to unnecessarily risk their cover by trusting they can predict the mind of a teenaged girl?

Does anybody know WHY she asked each of the fake soldiers if they'd traveled far? I was entertained but I wasn't sure if she was going for a particular parody. I do think she is very funny and took the accusation that the Tea Party had fallen down on the job for not serving actual tea as being a little jab at them so I kind of like her.

I think Traitor guy is going to use his contact with the cook/chess player to try to escape/hurt the good guys. I'm glad the scientist pointed out he's not the only one who has had loss because his entitled bitchy self was really working my last nerve. His attitude of "well if I can't have what I want I'm not helping SAVE THE POPULATION OF EARTH, so there!" made me want Baldwin to torture him. I rolled my eyes when he whined he wasn't going to get to go to the beach. Yeah like your so trustworthy. I can only assume that the Russians were too damaged to catch up with the good guys YET. Because they missed the opportunity of extorting the virus and the scientist from them in exchange for water. I do expect them back soon although if they didn't hear the distress call they wouldn't know where these people are. Are there really islands of a decent size with NO population left? I mean I would think all habitable islands belong to somebody by now, even if it is only a billionaire and his staff. I did say habitable because a tiny sand bar with one palm tree wouldn't do anybody any good. Certainly where I'd want to go in a zombie apocalypse but I just can't really picture it. That is, an island with fresh water that I could just sail to and feed myself through fishing that did not belong to anybody and not defended by anybody. I would think survivors of any big catastrophy would head there. I would hope the navy has desalination kits for emergencies and if you could process beer you can process salt water so they didn't even need a little kit. Also somebody upthread is right that if you can rig more intricate stuff a stil for distilling pure water would be a walk in the park. They should have also been able to collect rain water in tarps. They aren't in a dessert.

To be fair when people are desperate they do tend to become violent so I can see how if civilization fell the wruvivors would be at each other's throats fighting over what was left. I can't stand traitor guy. How the hell did the Russians even have the ability of finding this guy's wife and child while there is chaos all over the world? How does he think that what he is doing could result in safety for his family? How can he be dumb enough to think the Russian will keep whatever promises were made?

You know what's funny? Fairytale villains really did have rediculous reasons for thier evil but then again they weren't redeemed either. Classic Evil Queen was just jealous of Snow's beauty and Maleficient just wasn't invited to a christening, so she puts a magical hit on a baby to take place on her 16th birthday. This is where the show went wrong. They had the moronic reason for doing evil with Regina's blaming of a 10 year old BUT wanting to have the more modern redemption track that is usually an option with a layered, complex and multifaceted villain. The writers of the Malificent movie did it right in that they gave Malificent a good reason for going evil. I think we wouldn't have such a big problem with Regina if they'd revealed a better reason for her going nuts AND made it clear she was suffering from some sort of PTSD. Then her slowly getting redeemed would have been believable. You know who they believeably moved from being really evil and murderous to being loyal and a good guy? Cara Mason on Legend of the Seeker. She went from innocent child literally tortured into being a heartless sadistic murderer, back to being the best friend of the main character willing to die for him and those he loved. And that was cool because the audience did see how she was duped and manipulated and tortured into doing what she did AND you could see how some villager would still hate her for having killed one of their loved ones but it all made perfect sense. You clearly saw that she was sorry and accepted that the people she apologized to had no reason to forgive her and accepted that. It is too bad the writers didn't think things through when they wrote season 1 of this show.