NJRadioGuy

Yeah, classic bait and switch. For a fleeting second I thought Show finally grew a set and offed their lead to shake things up. Of course that would have meant more camera time for "Mary Sue" Dawson. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they didn't kill him off, but yeah, a medal for what. Now, if they'd shown him single-handedly saving Mouch even at the risk of his own life, then yeah, cool. I'd be good with that. I'll forgive Boden for being in there given that it's his wife's school, and it was her first day on the job (she'd been teaching 4th graders before, if I remember their dialog correctly). Dramatic license that didn't bug me, honestly. Little Girl In Distress? I'm torn. They rarely do any kind of run that doesn't have future ramifications up the ying-yang, but this one might have been just a little PSA to say don't be afraid to ask for help at a fire station. I'm good with that. In fact, I wish they do more stand-alone runs that didn't turn in to 11 episode arcs.

The warehouse fire rescue. I can't even. So many ways that could have gone. So many ways it should have gone, especially if one or two regular cast members had gone out. Mouch going down would have given Trudy some brilliant scenes on PD, for example. I was secretly hoping the warehouse would collapse on top of Gabby, or a helicopter would fall on her, but we all know that'll never happen. Because But yeah. That "rescue." What a novel idea. They actually put water on the damned fire and put it out. Wow. Who knew you could do that? What a brilliant concept. How many paid professional scribes in the writers room did it take to come up with that scenario. And Cruz's freakout. I was having a divide by zero moment at the whole thing, quite honestly. Yeah, I'm pissed at Show for such a big letdown. Either someone really needed to die, or they shouldn't have amped up last season's finale that high. As for the rest of it, I'm sick of the Chicago Manwhore, and Hope can go fall off a cliff or something. Please, just no, m'kay. I'd be good with him and Kidd, IF they could write it as a nice, slow burn and then keep them together for the long haul. If they had to keep Mouch alive, then I'm good with him going into fitness and getting another kick at the can. I think he's my favourite character in the show, or tied with Hermann, at least. I liked his speech at the end, but really hated the shit with him and Cruz. Gaah. And again, Saint Gabby, First of Her Name, urgh. Talk to the damned padré for heavensakes. The school fire. Decent premise, but couldn't they have at least shut off the bunsen burner gas lines before going in to do the rescue? And once again, where were the handlines? Even back in the '60s, elementary and high schools had hose cabinets with inch-and-a-half handlines in every school I attended or visited, plus handcans in every classroom. I'm trying to parse how a modern-construction school building could have that heavy a body of fire with teachers and physically-capable high school students everywhere. ArsonBrat lights up a locker or even the gas lines in the chem lab, and nobody has the presence of mind to immediately grab a chemical extinguisher or a hose and put it out before it grows that big? And what in a modern school building is that flammable that you'd see it blowing out the upper floor windows anyways? What I'm really interested in the the Boden Household dynamic. His wife obviously knows Wallace's own body damage, and now her friend got turned into a crispy critter, and she rode with her in the ambo. You can't help but think that there'll be a Serious Conversation in their home about Wallace's future of entering burning structures.

This was heartbreaking. A brief Google search turned up a bit more on the sinking from a Seattle newspaper in August. They found her resting on her port side in 250' of water. Remains of the crew were not found. One pot was taken off the wreck by the Coast Guard and analyzed, and like others used on the show, they clocked in well over 800 pounds. The safety drawings for that vessel were done in 1993, and were based on 600 pound pots. http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/coast-guard-hearing-icy-spray-heavy-pots-may-have-doomed-crab-boat/ To my layman's understanding, it sounds like they might have been top-heavy, beyond the load ratings. Probably just fine when not in heavy icing conditions but in freezing spray and high winds, it's an engraved invitation from Davy Jones. Keith has repeatedly pointed out in seasons past, when he's had a heavy deck and it starts blowing 50 and with heavy ice accretion, Bad Things can happen if you take a rogue wave or have steering problems. If anything, I hope this summer has given the skippers a chance to re-evaluate their vessels' capabilities in those conditions and have new stability documents prepared. As an airman, I look at FAA Airworthiness Directives and various other bulletins not as an annoying hindrance to flight, but as a means to keeping my birds in the sky and getting me back to my wonderful wife. I'm sure there's a similar thing for mariners and the Coast Guard and various state agencies. Again, comparing this to aviation, there's a critical aspect of flight planning that pilots ignore at their own, and everyone else's peril. Weight and balance. There are published charts for every airplane that show maximum weights for takeoff, and the placement and distribution of passengers, fuel, and cargo, In something like a small Cessna the pilot has to calculate the maximum weights he can take, and where those weights have to be located--meaning the gorgeous babe might have to sit in the back while her heavier father sits up front, for example, and those charts must be followed or the flight is both dangerous and illegal. When I worked on the railroad we had a saying: Every rule (in the official rulebook) is written in blood. As it must also be on the Sea, and in the air.

Looks like S3 has been greenlit. It hopefully couldn't be any worse than S2, so color me optimistic. http://ew.com/tv/2017/08/31/true-detective-season-3-2/

Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else. S01E10, Leviathan Wakes, just won a Hugo Award in the category of Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form at the 75th Worldcon held in Helsinki on August 11th. Hopefully the first of many. It beat out two episodes of Game of Thrones (The Door and Battle of the Bastards), one episode of Dr. Who, and one episode of Black Mirror.

I'm a bit surprised that there's no "The Bait" or similar tie-in show this year, and with the way it's been postponed 2 or 3 times so far, I have to wonder if the show is on the outs with Disco. While I'll always watch it, it's definitely getting to be a bit stale this season.

Your're all forgetting what's probably the most risqué thing ever said on this show—which is saying something—from the episode Slappy Goes Walnuts. Slappy throws in a video tape on walnuts for her nephew, on which the narrator makes the following comment, regarding a squirrels: "This little fellow likes to make his home of the hollow of an old oak tree. The squirrel likes to hide his nuts in many odd places, most of them where the sun doesn't shine." I did a spit take that would have made Slappy proud.

Thanks NEGirl. I just heard about the nonsense in Arizona this morning. Sad, but not unexpected. Perhaps a custodial sentence followed by court-ordered rehab might help slow him down on his race for a waiting coffin. I'm just interested to know how the CM is going as a fishing vessel/business moreso than the drama of House Harris. I'd hate to think that despite all the time they were part of the story that they lost the boat, for example. Glad Casey was able to bring 'em in.

Since they're no longer on the show, has anybody heard of the fortunes of the Cornelia Marie last season? I hope they were able to pull things together. Probably better for Harris that he's not on the show any more, though. Also wondering if Jake has made it back to the land of the living.

I'm good with 51 getting the rescues, that's all fine, but nobody was going in with them to provide water in case things went bad. Firefighting 101. It's one thing to do a primary search on a single story house without a handline behind you. In a fully involved warehouse? Not so much. They should have been pouring Lake Michigan in through the roof of that building with about a half dozen tower ladders or quints, truck companies with monitors on the big stick going in through the windows, each fed by an engine, plus at least one Truck company ready to go in when the mayday hit. You never see or hear discussion of building layout, sprinklers, location of standpipes, stairwells, hazards, hazmat or anything else. Again, I can see that being omitted for TV purposes, but it's a fact of real firefighting. That's what Boden and the rest of the guys in the white helmets are concerned about. Understanding the fire environment and the building layout, directing crews around hazards and/or having plans for extricating their men if an escape route gets blocked. Omit the boring stuff but having Boden and a Division Chief poring over blueprints and barking out orders to incoming apparatus or rescue personnel wouldn't be out of place and could be used to explain the drama to the audience; i.e a glimpse of plans that show where Our Heroes are trapped and maybe offer up a clue of where Salvation might come from for those with eagle eyes <grin>.

I hear ya. I'm not on the job myself but I've got a bunch of friends who are/were. The driving around "music" in my truck is FDNY radio chatter as well as our local agencies, and I've had a few newspaper front page photos from the fireground. I've said this on other episode threads in the past, but they could just change a few things around and still be able keep the drama high. No, they don't have the budget for 50 fire apparatus and crews for a fake fire, and I think we all get that, but at least bring some damned H2O into the fire building, even if the nozzleman and his backup's masks are blacked out and they have no lines. Even with water, things can still go pear-shaped. I guess I just don't like my intelligence insulted, and sadly they manage to do that regularly. Especially with Saint Gabby, First Of Her Name.

Duplicate post; sorry.

A little bit of real-life procedures here just to put TV into perspective. This is long and lots of inside-baseball for those who are interested. First 911 call hits, a standard "first alarm" response is initiated. Typically 4 or 5 engines (the vehicles that pump the water and whose crews bring hose lines in and extinguish the fire and is what seen-but-not-used "51" is), 2 or 3 Trucks*, which are also known as Ladders, hook-and-ladders, or aerials in Canada, (they open up the roof to vent the fire, perform searches for victims, and basically try to make the fire behave in a way that will make it possible to extinguish without loss of life or excessive damage, and that's what Casey's crew is), a heavy rescue (Severide's crew here) and a batallion chief. Boden, in this case. In real-life, not every house has a chief; just the officer on each piece of apparatus. You might find one chief for every 3, 4, 5 or more houses, depending how busy the area is. *The words "fire truck" are misleading. The big red thing with a siren can be a ladder, a pumper, a Quint, a tower ladder, a hose tender or anything else. The apparatus (FD vehicles of every type) start to roll from firehouses all around the burning building. Something that big would generate a ton of calls to 911. A good dispatcher will know this is a big job and will announce "multiple calls received" over the air and will have the tickets ready for the inevitable call for more manpower, and this will alert the firefighters that this is the real deal. First due trucks roll up, smelling smoke a half mile out and see the monster blowing out the windows. An officer (might be the LT on the first due engine, might be the BC) will report on scene, with a serious working fire, respond a second (or third or fourth) alarm. The dispatcher tones out subsequent pieces of apparatus. Meanwhile, the first- and second due engines take the hydrant, run hand lines and set up for the attack. The first-due truck might throw the big stick up in the air, and/or throw hand ladders, depending on the situation. Second due truck gets ready for the primary search. Third due truck will be the FAST truck (NYC terminology here), basically there to rescue any Maydays (i.e. firefighters that get trapped inside). More manpower arrives, More hand lines stretched. Tower ladders are set up (and are fed by engines) and they start throwing tons of water at it from above. If an interior attack is prudent then they'll go in, and they'll be backing up the Truckees and heavy rescue personnel. For something that big? Three alarms would be to start. With that volume of fire I could see six or more. Figure roughly 4-and-2 for each alarm, so call it about 25 engine companies, each with a 4 or 5 man crew, 15-18 truck companies, again, each with 4 or 5, a sea of white helmets, (Boden first, calls for the deuce or more, then a division chief then more and more brass as it gets full incident command, probably up to chief of department and his deputies, each in charge of a different aspect of the fireground. then specialty units (canteen, mask and air service, etc). And yes, the department chaplain gets called sometimes. No Effin' Way that gets an interior attack by the time the end sequence is set up. Surround it and pour Lake Michigan through the roof with about a half dozen tower laders and monitors. BUT. When FFs are trapped and in peril of death pretty well everything gets thrown at them until it's obvious it'll be a recovery effort, and even then, they don't leave a man behind. I'd wager that If a wife is serving at the same scene and it's pretty apparent that her husband is about to lose his life inside, I don't think standard radio procedure would be followed, lets put it that way. If you're not already bored to tears by this post--or if you want to get a real flavor of how this would go down for real, take a listen to this audio out of NYC: Manhattan box 632, fire in a church--fully involved. And This is what it actually looked like from the ground.

Just...wow. Drama-wise that was a decent roller-coaster of an episode. The logical part of my brain is asking why didn't Boden call for at least a fifth or sixth alarm for this and surround-and-drown once it became obvious that the building was lost? One damned engine against that? Almost no water (and what little there was withdrew)? But I'm going to leave logic go on this for two reasons. First, if this was Mouch and Hermann's exit from the show it was a hell of a way to do it. I can maybe see Hermann getting rescued but I think we can say a tearful goodbye to the half-man/half-couch. TV Drama Trope Number five: when a supporting character gets such a focus in the early part of an episode, it's a good change he's going to get killed off or written out of the series. I was hoping they'd pull a bait and switch, especially after Mouch told Hermann it was going to be his last run, but I guess the writers weren't in the mood to break the rules. The second reason I'm not going to belabor the lack of water is that even with all the best manpower and equipment in position, sometimes things go horribly wrong; hose lines burn through, with utterly tragic results. Engine 33 at 298 Beacon Street, Boston MA, 9th alarm, March 26th, 2014. And far too many others, sadly. There is audio of the fireground radios out there if you choose to find it--and it's not for the pearl-clutching crowd or those of delicate sensitivities. If they're going to recast 81 Truck for Season 6 this was about as horrible a way to do it that I could think of. I can't see Casey coming out of that conflagration but we all know he will, and that's the part that irks me. The hot gasses and toxic smoke would take him out in short order without his SCBA. Now the showrunners probably have other things in mind (killing off the lead of one of their best rated shows? Really?) but honestly, in my mind, there's no way to bring him, Mouch and Hermann out alive without some ghastly writing and handwaving of reality. I can see Squad guys doing something, or Rhys said, getting Cruz to drive either the Squad or the Truck inside or some such, but if they pull everybody out safe and sound it'll be a world class 10th alarm cop-out to me. And besides, they need to find a place for Kannell.

That's my understanding, from the pilot. If they were a house that regularly did high rise calls and elevator extrications, or he came from one that specialized in that type of rescue, it would make sense. A good character that deserves better development. He's still basically comic relief or part of the Greek Chorus.

I actually liked this season's format. What would be even more interesting would be a switch-up where you could ditch your partner in case he/she was a turkey. If they went back to this format in future I wouldn't object. Another idea might be "Redemption." All the contestants would be an assortment of teams eliminated on the first leg throughout the history of the show and give them one more chance. I'd also like to see far less time in India, China, Vietnam and other SE Asia locales and more in Africa and Europe, as well as Oz, Russia and Canada. It just seems that they beat us about the head and neck with SE Asia every season. That's another think I've liked about TAR-29 so far (though I'm sure that'll be coming as they keep going clockwise around the globe).

I think the 60 day rip was a bit harsh, but if he ran afoul of policy and the dep't was set on making an example I can see it really happening, although as LittleIggy said, this would probably go to an ALJ or whatever there is in Chicago that hears such cases. FDNY has had some really sick hazing stories happen in the past and they've adopted a zero tolerance policy now, so things like filling a probie's boots full of water or some other harmless prank could result in termination. So yeah, in this PC age I can see it happening--although the circumstance here was a bit sketchy. All in all this epi didn't suck for me. I'm really liking Mouch's story. He and Hermann are my two favourites on the show and, with Otis, form the Greek Chorus. I hope they keep 'em together and don't put Mouch out to pasture quite yet. One thing that bugged, When Severide called for the Hurst and Mouch brought bolt cutters, it made no sense. Mouch probably saw the cheapo padlock and figured the LT just wanted the right tool to cut the lock off, which bolt cutters are. A Hurst is overkill for that job, although it's great advertising for their new battery powered tools on national television <grin>. DaddyDawson can get off my screen now, and take your li'l girl with you to a place Far Far Away. Stella and Severide. Dunno if I "ship" 'em, but it feels natural they way they've set the two of them up as good friends, and it will invariably end up with them boinking sooner rather than later. To be honest, with what Severide's gone through this season, having him transition--gradually--from a player to a family man would be a nice story line if they can write it well enough. Kidd's a good kid (and if she brings a hand extinguisher in to a fire, she'd be good kid with a Kidde), and she clearly has some feelings for him; certainly as a good friend, maybe hoping for more? It's obviously going to happen, so I'm just hoping they do it right and not have their relationship crash and burn after 4 episodes next year. Although if it does, Engine still won't bring in a hoseline to put it out. Just sayin. <snerk>.

Yeah, that's pretty spiffy. I think they're at their best doing MVA extrications and other difficult rescue scenarios. They're at their worst (speaking technically) in structure fires and FD politics. Still wondering how Otis keeps his nickname since the neighbourhood that 51 serves is basically all low-rise single or two family dwellings and warehouse-style construction. Nothing with elevators.

Not exactly a "short" car or subway ride from Columbia to Bay Ridge! Using the show's location-house on Harbor Terrace to Columbia that's about 1h15 minutes by subway and express bus with no traffic. About the same by car, maybe less of the West Side Highway and the Gowanus aren't hemmed in solid <grin>. I just realized that the location-house is about 5 blocks away from one of my best friends apartment building! I think I'll take a little detour next time I go down there to visit.

I think the pilot showed what happened when venting the roof didn't happen, IIRC. It's been a while. But I'm just using this as an example. They routinely do things for dramatic effect that either can't physically happen, or if they did, they'd kill people. This is a soap opera centered around the Fire Service, but out of respect for all the men and women who answer the bell in real life, when they're on the job I just wish TPTB would bring a little more to real life in the small details. That's a big bone of contention for George RR Martin, and I remember his commentary about warriors not wearing helms during the second season of Game of Thrones. He even did an audio commentary on the Blackwater episode about this. So yeah, I get not wearing full masks and SCBA on screen--but it still bugs nevertheless. And likewise, inside the fire building I get that they have to have it lit for the cameras, but gas jets inside window frames are really a bit obvious! But they incorporate a few things in the show that really bother me. More inside baseball to follow here, feel free to ignore if you're in it for the hot FFs and the drama <grin>: Companies that truly hate each other. Ummmm. No. Just...no. FFs that would ever dare to put a brother or sister in jeopardy. Week after week of not going in with a charged line when there are other FFs in doing a search or opening up walls on the inside. Or how one engine, one truck, a heavy rescue and a battalion chief are going to put out a 6 story warehouse that's fully involved on arrival, protecting all exposures and not getting themselves killed in the process. Again, I get it. TV budgets, but still. Boden should be sizing up a block away, striking the 2nd or 3rd, then having a Division Chief or higher take command (and barking orders to "apparatus" out of camera range), while our Boden manages his own men/women. I absolutely loved that in "Emergency!" Stanley would call for the deuce, you'd hear (real-world LACoFd) dispatcher Paul Lannier tone out a typical 2nd alarm response and have B-roll shots of arriving apparatus and the Division Chief herding those cats. It made it feel real. I love that we have a high-rated FD drama on primetime network TV and I do understand the constraints, but damnit, there are so many ways to show what the job is really like and still give the audience a fun filled roller coaster ride every Tuesday night. Almost a half a century later, I regularly hear real world FFs and paramedics that I know saying they joined the service because of Johnny and Roy in the '70s. In 45 years from now, I wonder how many will say they joined because of Kelley Severide or Matt Casey. Or (ugh) Dawson.

CFD and CPD advisors can only do so much, but reality would get in the way of storytelling, unfortunately. I just love to snark the hell out of their "techniques" :) I actually just had this come across my FB feed yesterday. Movie firefighting vs real-world firefighting (with helmetcam footage) and explanations. It's a good read: Hollywood vs Real-life firefighting. It's not a question of opening up the nozzle and going in guns blazing. Water is a very controlled tool in firefighting today. You go in with a hoseline (or two) charged but the nozzle closed until you see the red stuff. If you have a flareup behind you it could be the difference between seeing your kids again and not. And besides, unless the interior is fully involved, why damage things you don't have to? But at the same time, if you're on scene with smoke visible but can't find the source of the fire easily (i.e. it ain't blowin' out the windows), then it's either a small fire like the one shown, or in the walls, which is a potential widowmaker if you go in there with no water and it gets some oxygen. The CFD advisors must have dents in their skulls from all the banging of their heads against the desks when they read the scripts. Have we ever once seen a truck company on the show open the roof and control the doors while Engine goes in with the water? Fire science is an absolutely fascinating thing to understand. As an example, calculate the size of a burning room, open up in a mist for a certain time and close the door. The water will turn to steam and will extinguish the fire that way.

He did. I still think with smoke visible upon arrival you'd have at least one hand line charged and in there to protect the primary search, no? I'd also bet that real-world CFD protocol calls for the first- or second-due truck to initiate the primary with the squad only responding to multiple alarms, since there are only a handful of rescue squads in the entire city, and they're generally held back for heavy or specialized rescue work, extrications, crashes, etc.

Agreed. The building looked sound. A kitchen fire with some extension into the soffit and roof. Meh. House sure looked structurally sound. Get some guys to patch the roof and replace damaged timbers, and redo the cabinets and appliances. Might be catastrophic if she didn't have insurance, but that in itself could have been a good plot. And again, WTF is it with Engine not getting in there with water straight away--although with that kitchen fire, two hand cans would probably have gotten it knocked down, with a single handline or two for inside the walls during overhaul. for once, a structure fire response that 1 and 1 with a Squad and a chief can handle :). The climbing accident was actually an interesting case but had no dramatic payoff, at least as of now. I'm fine with calls like that every so often because it's the way things really are. Given the nature of the injury, I don't see her competing on Dancing With the Stars anytime soon, let's put it that way. There's no positive outcome from that call. The roommate thing bored me. I think Severide will end up with Stella (which can happen in show cannon since they're on different apparatus and she's not under his command). She'll be his rock during his grief and, probably be the end of the season, eventually they'll realize they're more than friends. I like Stella's character and I believe Severide has grown up very quickly this season so if it's written well, I'd like to see it work. Kannell looks like a good new prospect but where can he fit in? He's just off a squad and they never got into his early history, so we don't know if he was a trained truckee or a engineman before getting on the Rescue. Obviously he won't be going on the ghost Engine, so that leaves Truck or Squad. Who's expendable here? I'd vote for Dawson, of course, but we all know that ain't happening. Capp maybe? Unless they 86 one of regulars on Truck in the finale (leave Mouch and Hermann alone, goddamn you, writers, I'm warning you), I'm drawing a blank.

I'd rather watch Vronsky and Levin starring in RedBloods any day over this hot mess. The whole episode felt disjointed, badly written and directed even more poorly. Could someone in network television please post a memo in the writers' room that not all confrontations need to be viciously adversarial, and 100% black and white? Or in this case, Blue and Red? Think Commissioner Dad would be pleased to see how poorly his Detective First Grade son treated visiting detectives, and representatives from a foreign agency that the NYPD will undoubtedly have to work with frequently in anti-terror investigations? I can tell you this much, any copper worth his salt would bend over backwards to befriend a foreign colleague. Lifelong friendships happen that way. As for the evidence tampering case, I'd love to hear an attorney's take on this. To my understanding, once a lab verifies that the confiscated material is a narcotic, that's that. At least in New Jersey, you can get a conviction if the "product" is baking soda if the perp believes it's the real McCoy. Also, where's the record of the chain of custody? Where are the big red seals on the Bankers' Box? As for the Bagel Stabbers, how 'bout getting them in a room with a good arbitrator or two (not named Reagan) and diffusing the situation before it escalates?

I guess none of the members of the Reagan Police Department ever pull a Sunday tour, there's no OT or extra shifts and there are no "commissioner must be here" crises on Sundays either. For families not in public service, though, it's quite common. That was our family when I was very young.