ReadMeLattice

I actually just LOLed. Idk why, I just like picturing it.

Seriously, that level of adorable is not fit for TM.

I agree, but in my experience a detox/a forced period of sobriety can *sometimes* help someone make that decision if they are usually using. I don't think he's had a sober week in many years. I don't know what will push him to rock bottom, but if multiple arrests and custody battles with two children haven't...

Yeah, I think this also seems extra ridiculous because we have the context. We've seen Kail from the start and also Javi and Kail's totally misguided, always-a-bad-idea relationship, so the fact that it's ending like this and playing out publicly is simultaneously mind boggling and extremely predictable.

I guess. I was divorced and I know emotions run high but this is all so odd. We didn't have kids in the house though...That makes a difference. Also there were no similarly titled tell alls. Sad!

It seems as a veteran he would have more mental health resources available than most, but chooses not to use them. In addition, after this many DUIs I'm confused about why he wasn't forced to complete treatment for alcoholism. I've known a few alcoholics with 3-5 DUIs like he had and they were forced to attend AA or 60-day rehab. Of course, maybe he did and then immediately relapsed.

No, I knew you meant that, lol. I meant "aaaahhh" to that. That is weird high school stuff. Freaking creepy.

I believe it's something to do with it being reality TV. I could be wrong but I believe I read something a while ago about the rules being different for children on reality shows because they are not considered "actors" in every instance, but just people who happen to be on TV because they are in the care of their parents who signed on to do the show. Again, my memory on this is vague.

Ew, checking the drawers?! I didn't catch that. Aaaahhhh

I have a hard time feeling for him anymore. A close family member served around the same time as Nathan and even became an alcoholic and had some bad fights with his wife as a result of PTSD that resulted in throwing things (though not at her). But he'd cut off his own arm before he'd abandon a child and lose custody, threaten cops physically, or break into a woman's house and choke her to the point that she's scared for her life. To me that requires someone to be a piece of shit to begin with, or at least very prone to violent influence. Plus, Nathan has resources he could use through the VA and no longer does, given that he no longer receives disability. So he doesn't even try to improve. Most of these folks have had bad childhoods and trauma. Some have been sexually assaulted. But if you abuse people to that extent...You're just an awful person IMO. Lots of people were raised like Jenelle and they might not be incredible and great successes, they might get divorced or even use drugs for a time, but they don't treat people as abusively as she does and use kids as pawns. I don't think being in the military gives one a special extra pass.

I believe Suzy was probably abusive or that Kail saw abuse in her home. Suzy was a raging alcoholic and there were boyfriends in and out of the house, there's usually some degree of physical abuse in all that. Unfortunately that can definitely lead to normalizing violence.

Studies show a very disproportionate number of cops have been physically abusive to spouses or kids. I assume it's a mix, like most things. I really doubt Nathan was some responsible, nonaggressive person before. So he was both drawn to what he thought of as "macho" and messed up by PTSD/TBIs when actually in service. Then used a bunch of steroids and won't stop drinking. So hard to separate the factors. But I definitely have family members who are vets with PTSD and TBIs, one of whom was in a similar position to Nathan and saw an enormous amount of combat and violence in Iraq. They have had their issues but act nothing like this douche and would be disgusted by this behavior. So I assume a predisposition to violence on his part at least.

Yeah, I definitely don't think Jo is exactly being dumped on. He seemed all too happy to jump in with questioning Javi and his behavior. Maybe that's because of some territory-guarding, maybe just a 100% genuine desire to protect his son. But I didn't see any manipulation in that particular scene. What I did see was that Vee is not going to be pleased if he keeps contradicting her in favor of Kail. He should watch that. Not that he has to completely agree with Vee but he has a buddy-buddy relationship with Kail now and that can be both good and bad. The facts were that Javi entered the basement after giving the key back and ostensibly moving out. The kids don't know what's up legally or that he has the legal right (which of course he does)...All they know is that mom and Dad/Javi are fighting and now Dad is suddenly here when they both said he was moving out, and now the cops are here and questioning our parents. Has to be confusing, even if they're not afraid of Javi hurting them they're certainly going to be anxious about the situation. That's not right for Javi to put on them no matter how much of a raging bitch Kailyn is or how much fault she disproportionately had in the divorce. I have to admit I had some pleasure in seeing Javi get vindicated by the cops, not because he's not a dick but because Kail is so self righteous. But I still felt bad for the kids.

I thought Jo used to go to college but dropped out. Do you know where he goes? That's great if he really is. Disabled kids' care gets neglected all the time. And other kids' too. Unfortunately as bad as everything we've seen on the show is, I don't think child services could get involved for almost any of it.

Give me my PHOOOONEEE! Give me my SOOONNN! Yeah-- and my unfortunately wide array of experiences with alcoholics tells me that if you have that many instances of alcohol related fights, arrests and drunk texts, homeboy is drunk pretty much all the time. You don't get caught every time by far. I doubt Nathan was emotionally healthy and nonviolent before serving, but PTSD has definitely fucked him up, followed by run ins with the law and extensive substance abuse that become their own brand-new problems.

He had the legal right but he shouldn't have handed over the key in the first place. Creepy to show up unannounced after that in the basement. She was trying to set him up for failure at pickup time and he was trying to get a rise and start something. I feel bad for these dudes having to deal with Kail-- but wrap it up next time y'all.

Honestly I continue to see some connection and flirtation between Jo and Kail. I don't know if that's translated to anything but every time they interact I see a something. It's odd.

He's been diagnosed with PTSD in the past, but no longer gets disability probably because he failed to show up to his appointments with the VA or continue to get treatments or meds. I didn't notice the time before. Holy shit dude. 6 pm. Hardcore alcoholic. He has been for years though as it was in his visitation agreement with his little girl when she was a toddler that he couldn't be drunk around her, and he's had many many alcohol related arrests, so I don't see him going to therapy anytime soon...He'd have to admit a flaw then. He even defended the last choke and break in.

Nathan is so, so unhinged. Dude needs to head to some AA meetings pronto.

The way Jenelle was raised, with an abusive and then absent father and a clearly volatile and unstable mother, undoubtedly plays a role in how Jenelle functions as a parent. And Barb has done her fair share of screaming and yelling and inappropriate behavior. Between the two, of course, there's no contest, in a way that I don't agree exists between Jenelle and her male partners (I think they're all equally bad as Jenelle). Barb is undoubtedly a far better parent with far more stability and ethics. She may not have been earlier, but she certainly is now. Secondly, 7 year olds can absolutely be depressed. I had an abusive parent with extreme fits of rage and I remember being extremely stressed at age 8, and recognizing myself as "clinically depressed" at 10. For example, I was not allowed to go to public bathrooms by myself, but my mother would get very angry when I asked to go, so she would push and shove me publicly all the way to the bathroom and whisper in my ear about how bad I was all the way there. That left me with extreme anxiety about bathrooms to the point that I would get UTIs or wet myself because I was so afraid to ask an authority figure to go. Then I would get punished and humiliated for wetting myself. I have to say that I see a similar pattern of stress, triggers and fear in Jace. He shuts down when things start to go wrong. That's not 100% Jenelle's fault. His father abandoned him and his grandmother isn't perfectly stable either, and has a temper. But Jenelle's and her boyfriends' behavior absolutely contribute heavily.

I thought he was retweeting the comment above in which Jenelle's tweet was quoted. In the last video chat with her, Andrew looked like a hardcore junkie. Gary got kicked out of the military for the DV & drug possession with Jenelle.

This. Of course it's 50/50-- no one out of Nathan, Kieffer, Courtland and David was going to have a lucrative job or be a hard worker, nor would they be able to get them with their records and drug and alcohol abuse, and I'm sure the camera time and money were attractive to them-- but that in part is what she wants. Can you imagine her being with anyone with a real job? Putting in 8 hour shifts at an office or restaurant? Yeah, he's a sweetie but I could never deal personally.

She only sheds tears for herself.

Oh, the racial slur-filled Instagram rants that would ensue then!

Well right, of course, I'm being facetious. I don't actually think Leah should be polyamorous. If she could pronounce it. Jeremy actually does seem like the type to want his girl to be faithful while "what happens on a pipeline job stays at the pipeline job" for him. As long as he brings home the bacon to slap her with, I get the sense he's like "who cares who I was texting."