ReadMeLattice

Responding to the "it's more common in women" thing-- Interestingly enough, it's actually just as common in men according to the most recent research, just less commonly diagnosed because it looks different in men (like autism and ADHD in women). Men with BPD are likelier to be seriously violent rather than dependent on a series of partners. Something like 85% of women with BPD were sexually or seriously physically and psychologically abused as children. That's why I'm dubious that Jenelle has it, unless of course she's part of the other 15% (or maybe I just don't have any sympathy left for her and I'm overlooking too much of her past because of my hate-bias). I do know she has had trauma in her life, of course. I just don't see any empathy or vulnerability; even if severely mentally ill to the point of extreme debilitation, there would be moments of vulnerability and kindness. The statistical majority of people with BPD actually do get "cured" or "better," contrary to popular belief/media stereotypes. I just don't see that possibility in Jenelle. Of course, as you say, that could just be because she's an asshole and the mental issues are layered on top of that. I could also just hate her so much that I'm not seeing things clearly anymore, lol. I got like that with Amber too.

I seriously see nothing cute about posing as your husband's prey for Halloween and dressing your child as his prey too. It really feels like mocking violence against women and children to me, especially given David's history. Maybe in a different family I wouldn't see it that way, but I think there is a super creepy one-sided power dynamic there. I could imagine my husband OR me dressing up as the other's prey, maybe (though that wouldn't be our personal choice), but you know for sure in that family, David would *only* accept being the hunter and everyone else his prey. It would never, ever be reciprocal. Also, whatever power dynamics you've negotiated between adults, the child doesn't need to be brought into it, especially when it involves extreme violence.

Yeah, I thought she meant the real estate thing WAS his job.

My little one in her dinosaur costume for Halloween :)

I don't think Jenelle is mentally ill, though I used to when I was giving her more of the benefit of the doubt. Usually mental illness indicates some sort of past trauma or abuse. I think she is evil. Sorry to be dramatic. To be blunt: some people are just evil and I think she's one of them.

This. I've learned as I've gotten older that people who say things like "my wife" or "my son" instead of calling people by their names usually don't actually care about the person. They care about themselves & their own egos. Jenelle doesn't ever say, "I just want Jace here," she says she wants HERRRRR son there. It's always about possession.

Seriously. I've been fighting a virus the last few days and imagining Brianna and Javi in particular doing that makes me feel ill. These people have children and national audiences and families who follow them on social media...let's keep some shit to ourselves, please...

Most people I know say "in my feelings." It just means "really emotional," like, "I was all in my feelings about that commercial"--same as "that commercial made me really emotional." I don't think that's particularly weird, every generation has new slang and it always sounds silly (lol @ "groovy"). What I don't get is why she was "emotional" about getting her cheeks spread by Javi? ALSO NOW I'M IMAGINING HIM DOING THAT TO KAIL AND I WANT TO KILL MYSELF. Most people I know do NOT, thankfully, tell me that someone spread their buttcheeks and spit inside them. I just felt sick typing that. My relatives are on my Facebook, and people I work with, and friends who don't need to know my intimate life. I'm trying to imagine the reaction I would get if I described the kind of sex I had last night in detail on my Facebook or Twitter....I'm pretty sure I would come home to an intervention. Wtf is wrong with her. (And Javi the fame whore probably loves it. He probably isn't embarrassed at all).

Send them to me. ;) And wow I'm all for healthy sexuality but I 100% am legit grossed out by this tweet. STFU and keep that shit private. (Also if my husband did that to me, tweeting about it joyfully would not be my reaction lololol).

I wonder if there is a job title at MTV called something like Abuse Editor or Fight Captioner. Crime Obscurer?

Oh I remember the Tyler being hot thing too! And Ryan, everyone thought Ryan was hot.

Yep! I'm about a year older than the girls. I remember watching the Jenelle episode with the blonde pigtails as a teen myself.

I was a teen in the mid-00s and it sucked so I believe you. That might have just been me though.

"don't let this face fool you?" Um...don't worry I didn't think you were attractive

My boyfriend in high school was a douchebag and, during an argument, said something like "I was born to save lives" about his job at the firehouse (he was assisting them, but he was not an actual firefighter, I don't think he ever became one). And he was actually at least doing SOMETHING helpful and meaningful, but it was still super obnoxious and egocentric to say and I remember it to this day. Girl had the gall to say that because she got a certificate at a for-profit college that she'll never even use, while her mom has an actual job.

This! I wear contacts but I kept my mouth shut when everyone was saying how cray Aubree was for freaking out like that about them, because when I was 8 I totally did too. Lol! "Why am I a guy" will forever be my personal favorite TM meltdown. The carvalanche and the early Barb/Jenelle fights are close seconds. I especially like imagining that Nathan applies to a law enforcement office and in response they just play that clip.

This seriously never stops being funny. Also, Javi is dumb. I officially have no more sympathy left for him. To be fair, it would take a lot of laughing to laugh that ass off. I'd be mad too if I had to try.

I wasn't alive yet when it debuted, so I've only gotten to see it after it went way downhill. I can't believe that the TM girls in particular have now been on TV for almost a decade. Like, think about it: CATELYNN BALTIERRA (REIGN) has had a decade's career in TV. Yikes. I think it's looked a lot worse in other photos, so it's confusing. I agree that here to me it doesn't look bad. In some it has truly looked like a cone head, which makes me wonder if the other photos were wonky due to bad Photoshop or if the photos where it doesn't look as bad are Photoshopped.

Well unfortunately, he teaches it at a reputable institution, but he shouldn't be allowed to do so. That's what I'm saying. He's an assistant clinical psychiatry professor at USC, or at least he was. Which is chilling. Edited to add that whatever kind of physician he is...he shouldn't be one. I can't believe he's ever TAUGHT at a medical school. He is a joke. Also def never said I had sympathy for Jenelle. I said that as an abuse victim I find her scenes scary and personally chilling.

In a word, yes.

This so hard. Both of them have got to love this, Javi especially.

Yeah, but the thing is I don't really care about Jenelle one way or the other, stopped a long time ago. I do care that a psychiatrist said on television that an abuse victim might need to be 'contained,' thus justifying victim blaming. I hope he isn't still a professor at USC and no longer works in an actual clinical setting because if so, he needs to be fired stat. He should not be teaching anyone anything.

This. We often talk about Kaiser and Jace the most because they're old enough to be visibly affected by what's around them. All the others have at least one fit parent (if we consider Barb Jace's parent, which I believe she is in every way). Kaiser has two unfit parents, but he does have Doris to some extent. Ensley has no one.

I feel like I do too. But I did see in a comment from somebody else a while back the idea that Isaac might actually be worse-off than some of the others because sometimes the most sensitive are the most harmed, and it got me thinking. It's true that a very sensitive kid like Isaac might actually end up being more harmed than a more resilient-seeming one, like Lincoln or Aubree--she isn't being abused but to me she seems very "whatevs" about the whole Adam thing; Chelsea always seems much more upset about Adam. Isaac, on the other hand, would absolutely notice if it was him, and might therefore develop more of a traumatized reaction if an Adam-type was his dad. Jace, too, though he has behavioral problems, also seems sensitive to me. There is some role that individual personality plays. It'll be strange to see it all play out.

I have to agree with Nathan--as much as I hate him for hanging around his girlfriend and continuing to drink or pour glitter on himself or whatever he does rather than getting Kaiser from her-- that she is ultra submissive these days. She shows her ass around her mom and the boyfriends she knew wouldn't come after her, like Kieffer. She was in charge in that relationship, and she knew that he wouldn't really ever hurt her, so she was bolder with him. But I've seen her ultra submissive a few times, and regardless of how much I dislike it, as a prior abuse victim it was chilling. With her mom, she seems like she can't control herself, but around Nathan when he was clearly high/drunk (I'm thinking of the 'I was here the whole time' thing when he claimed to have been in Atlanta but was really hiding in the house, and the 'you're trailer trash' thing), she would sit there and just take it and barely say anything. With David, same thing. That look when he was saying that they don't fight and putting on his lying sunglasses: CHILLING. I felt tingles go down my spine. WTF happened when the cameras weren't there? Jenelle is one of those people who thinks being abused means love. 100%. She pushes and pushes and when they act abusively, she knows it's finally time to "shut her mouth." FUCK Dr. Drew for insinuating in front of millions of people that abuse victims ever need to be "contained." I don't care if it's Jenelle, Jenelle isn't the one watching. Thousands of young girls are who may be in abusive relationships, or who may be thinking the same thing: "Well, I'm difficult, so I guess I'm just being contained."