ReadMeLattice

She went to rehab once, a long time ago, pre heroin. I don't think either of them are in counseling or that Nathan has ever been to rehab. It's hilarious to think he might admit he has a flaw...

It's not that Miranda seems incredibly brilliant (just maybe average or closer to average), just that Corey and Leah seem incredibly dumb. And I do think the ability to communicate effectively, have an effective conversation, pronounce words correctly, and structure sentences are often pretty good indicators of IQ, or at least of some reading and writing skills. Self-awareness, too. Not always; sometimes people have disabilities that preclude them from speaking effectively, for example, but obviously that's not the case here.

Yeah, he is a high school or middle school sports coach (gym teacher or just football coach, not sure) and seems to work daily, based on his social media. He also does personal training on the side. And, well, honestly? He's a black man (and in a fairly racist area). If he hasn't had any arrests, he's basically a saint--black men are arrested unjustly all the time, given longer sentences for the same minor crimes, etc. Leah would have to do something crazy to be held accountable for her behavior.

TR doesn't seem to have any arrests, though, or at least none have turned up. And he's allowed to see his children and is employed. I've wondered if part of the reason he refused to film was that he knew the relationship might not last and he didn't want to get too involved in the TM bullshit. Just a thought. He doesn't seem like too much of a douchebag on social media, which is more than I can say for most on the franchise...

He's made them since. Maybe he has changed in his views, but his actions have not. Miranda actually seems to agree with him, which surprises me because she's never seemed hopelessly dim like Leah and Corey. I don't know. This is the one area where there's absolutely no excuse. Get over your ignorance if only for your daughter's health. Join a group, read a book, hire a therapist. Get over your denial. Something. Do anything to get a loaner wheelchair. They should be going above and beyond and none of them are doing even the minimum. I don't think the doctor was ambiguous, but I also don't think he understands the stupidity of the people he's dealing with. What is really scary is imagining what Corey and Leah were like in school............

Yeah, exactly-- similar IQs and backgrounds. Also, dumb enough to pretend they've never heard of TM. And she's dumb enough to believe it.

Hasn't she been with basically three guys ever?

Jenelle definitely exacerbates the situation, but both Nathan and David were already crazy...multiple arrests, tumultuous relationships, addiction, and children they weren't allowed to see in some capacity and still don't have custody of. Not to mention that both of them seem basically illiterate. Jenelle doesn't make men bad, she picks them because she's a terrible partner as well.

Kailyn and Vee seem to get along well now. I think Kailyn has made strides to get along with her and seems to have no problem with her. She'd be fine if Isaac called Vee Mom. It's been years since any drama between Kail and Vee happened. And lots of stepchildren call their stepparents Mom or Dad.

I don't think the swearing is really the issue as much as the rape, murder, sexual assault, racism, and robbery throughout that game. Who the fuck gives that to a 6 year old?! "They found drug paranalia." -Nathan, future Ivy grad

Literally the only thing I do respect about Farrah is her career in the adult industry. Girl markets hard and there isn't any shame at all in sex work as far as I'm concerned. I hate when the other TM girls rag on her about it like they're above that themselves in some kind of way. However, she should own it and won't. Because she's, you know, a psychopath and such. Her parenting is one of the creepiest things I've ever seen in my life. Hands down. On all counts. It's just fucking weird.

...been on Teen Mom occasionally? I guess? Made a baby? (I don't blame him, she "looked like an avocado straight out of Mexico').

I guess? I think she's just trying to have school friends and Big Daddy Padre Pops King Father Dad WorldRuler Papi Javi flips out at every last thing even though nothing she's done has seemed very inappropriate at all. Granted, if you want a relatively normal college experience, maybe don't get married to a guy you hate and have two kids when you're, like, 12. I guess hindsight is 20/20. Even if she was just married to a normal guy with no kids, she could have fun. But no, she's got crazy possessive military husband/2 kids/reality show...it's not a recipe for the kind of independence she seems to want. And that's kind of a "her" problem, now, isn't it.

Hmm. Javi has retweeted some of that guy's videos, so I assume they are other students from the communication department at DSU making videos together. That "when you _____" setup is a frequent meme setup. Ahh- she retweeted and joked about "working on these acting skills." It's definitely a just for fun video.

I know she at least asked for therapy with Jeremy and maybe even Corey at some point. So in theory, she's cool with it...I would assume she'd get upset if the therapist didn't 100% agree with her, though.

Jeremy balked at marriage counseling because he "didn't want to talk to somebody with a PhD." Oh yes, why would you ever want to talk to someone with a great deal of training and education? I would assume that Corey shares that view or something akin to it.

@Cosmocrush, "somewhere" is right. He's not allowed overnights with her, his ex's parents have custody because both he and his ex were substance abusers, and he sees her maybe once a month. I guess he could be trying for custody of her and we just don't know, but it seems more like his "trying" for her is like Jenelle's "trying" for Jace. It's devastating that Kaiser has precisely zero parents who just want him for him. Not for photo opps, looking good for the courts or TV, looking good for a bf/gf, or sticking it to an ex. I hate thinking of how whichever one of these idiots who gets primary custody of him will parade him around on social media, posting triumphant statuses.

Ironically, Corey, Jeremy, and Leah have ALL cheated on their spouses, gotten divorced, and had sex days or weeks after getting together (and kids after, oh, 9 months or so), despite being supposedly so 'old school' and 'traditional.' The only one who hasn't is Miranda, and I don't think Corey even really loves her. Might be wrong. At least I don't think he did when they got married. I understand having traditional values, but you can't half-ass them. You can't say you want a good ol' country man who will be forever faithful and then cheat on him all over the place or screw him in the back of a truck. You can't say you want some good small town woman and then cheat on her, or have sex with her after a few dates and wonder why it all went wrong. Those actions pretty much guarantee you are NOT finding traditional partners.

It should be.

Wow, offensive. He has a career: "My appetite for you is becoming obese/I'm ready to bite, but I'm like a dog with no teeth"

Can Nathan even drive again? Shudder. I hope not. He's been acting shockingly reasonable the last few episodes, which honestly scares me. He's either faking to look good on TV, or he's temporarily stopped using. Drunk/high Nathan is one of the scariest things I've ever seen on television. What it all comes down to is that they both chose to be with the other person. If they supposedly wanted some kind of Leave it to Beaver family, or at least a halfway decent, everyday relationship, why on earth would they pick each other? And suddenly Jenelle is fishing, boating, and mother of the year and Nathan is an estranged loving Daddy who just wants to see his son? And both of them are sober? And they are just so appalled at the other? Uh, no. The shit will hit the fan again eventually with one or both. And it won't be pretty.

Re: the "necessities," were those items Jenelle decided on or something requested by her lawyer/the court? Personally I don't think they are necessities, but the fact that she keeps repeating the word (like Nathan did with "parental alienation"-- did these two idiots even know the words necessities or alienation before their lawyers told them?) makes me feel like it's a setup from her lawyer as a reason not to give custody to Nathan. Nathan should have the basics since he gets TM checks for having fights with his baby mama, but there are plenty of poor parents who don't. And it isn't a crime to be poor. Even if you're homeless, social services can't just take your children away for that alone. I still think Nathan is dangerous and is only using Kaiser as a pawn, but so is Jenelle on both counts. I just don't get the sudden obsession with "necessities."

I was thinking about this a little today and I actually think she's missing some of the key BPD traits, like self-harm and severe depressive tendencies, self-loathing, suicidal ideation... The violence, mood swings, drug use, etc, are classic BPD. I see what you might mean with the "I hate you, don't leave me" stuff she does. Who knows, they are often confused even by medical professionals. I actually feel for her though she's quite unlikable. Her mental illness is very stark and obvious, and her drug use has always seemed to stem from that. I think she truly does want a good man and a family but she would need to do a lot of personal work and therapy to get them. This is why I can't get behind MTV. Yes, she is a mean girl and a bad mom and brings the drama, but she is obviously in a lot of pain and suffering from severe mental health issues that the show lets go untreated because... Well, again, she brings the drama. If she gets better, she won't.

It seems like in their circles it's embarrassing not to have at least one child, engagement, or marriage pre-21. In my college years it would have been taboo to get engaged or have a child. Different strokes for different folks, but it makes people rush if they feel like they have to. Both of Leah's marriages were rushed and pressured and none of them had any business being married at the time, much less to each other. Of course, when you get pregnant/get someone pregnant after a 3-week casual relationship, I guess "rushing" is relative. ETA, yeah, @Tatum, I forgot that Jeremy was pressuring Leah to have a baby and she was pressuring him to commit while she was still back and forth doing it with Corey...and telling Jeremy she still had feelings! Are you even really "married" in that instance, or are you just putting on your nicest camos for a pre-divorce party?

The lower portion of her face is Kail's Achilles heel.