sinkwriter

Oh yeah, definitely. I'm hoping that this week's episode Shaun just needed to absorb the surprise of it, and next week he'll tell off Kenny, take back his TV and kick him out of his life for good. I really want him to do that. He doesn't seem to have trouble telling people when they did something wrong, but I'm afraid this is getting a little muddled for him, because they were supposed to be "bros" and don't "bros" lend stuff to one another? Then again, his former neighbor took an apple or something (batteries?) from him, and he had no trouble telling her she owed him one back and he was there to get it. So I hope he'll find a way to suss out that Kenny's behavior is definitely not "bro-like" and he needs to stop taking Shaun's stuff.

Maybe Park knows a guy who can do it for Jared. ;) Because Kenny needs to go, Shaun needs some justice and Kenny needs some comeuppance. After everything he's done, he needs to move out, he needs to not be there, he needs to leave Shaun alone. What an asshole. Not only did he turn Shaun away, essentially saying he was too weird / "quirky" to hang out with his friends, but he broke into his home, stole Shaun's money and belongings, and then after all that he takes his pizza right out of his hands? Are you fucking kidding me??? (LOL) Switching gears... it was fun to see Sheila Kelley (Richard Schiff's in-real-life wife) playing his potential date in this episode. That was really sweet, and I liked when they got past the awkwardness and found a point of connection with the car thing. It was also really powerful to see Richard Schiff get to do something emotional, in those moments when Glassman couldn't find the right word he needed. That hurt to watch. (And I love him so much from The West Wing, so it's great to see him get to do something more in-depth.) Shaun's quiet "I'm a person" to Jared just gutted me. I wondered about that as well. When Claire asked her to write her name down, I actually thought she was going to ask her to write down how to contact her son. It seems they missed their own detail with that one. To say she's got family and then not contact him (even if he doesn't need to be a speaking part, just a figure in the room with her in the end) just seems a little sloppy.

I don't mind that they got another actor to play Michael (especially after hearing about the original actor's apparent anti-gay comments as noted above... wow... disgusting of him), but I do mind a lot that they essentially retconned who Michael was in Will's life. In the original series, he was THE guy that Will loved above all other boyfriends. There was an episode where Grace knew the anniversary of their breakup was coming up, so she took Will away to try to take his mind off of it, and it's just the most wonderful episode, funny and sweet, and shows their friendship really wonderfully, as well as demonstrates that Will had recently had a very serious, long relationship with Michael. I want to say it was at least seven years. So there was important (and moving) weight to that relationship. And in the episode where the character actually appears in person, we see that Grace gets along really well with him, so to have this new storyline where both she and Jack act like they never liked or trusted him...?? Makes absolutely no sense, if you ever saw the original series. And even if you didn't, rewriting the character as a user in this way essentially ruins the weight and length and importance of their relationship and how much they supposedly meant to one another. I just don't think it was cool of the showrunners to rewrite Michael in this way. Like Tara and Kevin said, if you're going to have Cheyenne Jackson come on the show, why not have him play someone else? Someone who fits this "user" backstory relationship that Will supposedly had at one point? Why have him be THE Michael and change his history in this way? It just feels like it discredits the quality of the story we'd originally been given about the guy, and as an original Will & Grace viewer, I'm very disappointed in that decision. That said, I did very much love the scenes between Jack and Will. Best parts of the episode, for sure.

If Henry said the words "Gang of 8" one more time in this episode, I was about ready to throw something at my screen.

I laughed out loud at Shaun's commentary: "That looks like a spinal fracture... you're dead." LOL. That said, I still don't trust his "friend" Kenny. He broke into Shaun's apartment and stole $20 from Shaun's drawer to buy them both dinner? With Shaun's money? Without asking him? And this so-called "bet" they made involved an amusement park jaunt that cost $300? How? Amusement park trips can be expensive but not that expensive. I don't trust that the bet was legitimate or fair, and I think that's why Park raised his eyebrows at the story and decided to do a background check on the guy. I mean, I hope I'm wrong. They certainly turned me around on Melendez, who I thought was a stereotypical jerk after the first episode or two, but now whom I actually like as a character. So maybe they'll show another facet to Kenny that will show he's actually not messing with Shaun, that he really thinks his behavior is okay. But for now, he acts suspiciously, and I don't like it. I don't like someone taking advantage of Shaun.

Oh, without a doubt. LOL. I used to watch the occasional episode of Mysteries of Laura, or whatever Debra's previous show was, and I could swear she always looked good. Even in casual jeans and a button-down, they made her look good. So I don't know what's up with costuming for this show.

'Bout damn time. I may have to rewatch the series just to remember what happened. LOL.

I've gone once, a very long time ago. This was back when Scott Hamilton, Kurt Browning and Paul Wylie were skating on tour with Stars on Ice, and they were (and always will be) my favorites so I decided to go. They were fantastic. I understand enjoying watching it on TV, I do too, but it was really amazing to see them perform live. It's like going to a concert - most times I'm content to simply stay home and listen to the albums, but there are a select few artists that I really, really love and it's so thrilling to see them perform in person. You wouldn't think it would be that big of a deal, but as soon as they walk out on stage (or in the case of the ice skaters, glide onto the ice) and the audience goes wild with applause, it's electric energy. SO fun.

I always crack up at Karen yelling, "SKATE FASTER! WE HAVE DINNER RESERVATIONS!" LOL.

I like this episode a lot more than Tara and Kevin, I guess. (LOL.) I've always liked this episode, because (at the time) I saw a lot of myself in Will - how he wanted something specific but was afraid to ask for it, and that he felt more comfortable 'going along' with something he really didn't want to do, to the point that he wasn't able to speak out for what he didn't want. Thankfully, as I've gotten a little older, I've gotten a little better about saying no, and about standing up for myself. But back then when I first watched this episode, I totally understood where Will was coming from and that's why I really liked how Grace approached him in the end, how she reminded him gently, "I asked you, and you said okay, I asked you again, you said okay... I guess now we know that means okay is not okay." And Will admitted he should have said something, which he really should have. But sometimes it's hard, especially when it involves your friends or other people you love whom you want to make happy. And when you're not good at stating what will make YOU happy. So while it may seem like a weak plot, I've always found a lot of value in this episode, more than what it may seem on the surface. To the questions posed in the podcast about the value of Will and Grace as characters.... for me, I thought Jack and Karen were very funny, but I felt the show needed the stability of the Will and Grace characters. The over-the-top-ness of Jack and Karen could sometimes be too much (and too unrealistic), so Will and Grace brought connection to the show (see above first paragraph of me relating to Will's behavior). Also, my best friend back then -- who still is my best friend to this day, 20 years later <3 -- is a gay man, and during our college years we LOVED watching this show and laughing about it and talking about it. We were Will and Grace, in a way. We always saw this show as "us," you know? I mean, I was more like Will (a little uptight, perfectionist, straight-laced, but good-intentioned) and my best friend was more a mix of the characters, definitely a lot more zany (LOL), so it wasn't exactly our relationship, but we were (and are) a straight woman / gay man best friends combo like the show presents, so it was really endearing and wonderful to see our lives reflected back in a way that I don't think had been around very much yet, back then. It was meaningful to us, and we related to Will and Grace and their daily lives and interests and relationships, and we definitely related to Will and Grace's love for one another. I still remember watching the series finale back when it aired, and I was sobbing. And after the episode ended and I had pulled myself together, I immediately thought of my best friend and all our history together as friends, and not five minutes after the episode finished, my phone rang and I knew it was him. And it was. And he'd been watching the finale and thinking the same thing, about our history and all we'd been through together and how much we missed spending time together now that he'd moved too far away to see each other like we used to. It was a powerful, connective thing, and that had a lot more to do with Will and Grace than with Jack and Karen, no matter how funny Jack and Karen are and how wonderfully talented Sean and Megan are. It was Will and Grace as characters, their close friendship, that drew the two of us. I had to look it up for specific dates, but it seems this premise was pretty big during that timeframe. I don't know if Will & Grace was already in process of being greenlit by the network to be created the next year, I don't know how long that kind of stuff takes or when Max & David came up with the idea for the show, but just the year before, My Best Friend's Wedding was very popular and had Julia Roberts and Rupert Everett as the two people in a very funny, wonderful straight woman / gay man friendship. So I don't know if My Best Friend's Wedding sparked things, and that allowed NBC to be more "okay" with accepting this premise for the show? And then it seems a lot of other films came forth after the success of Will & Grace - Paul Rudd's The Object of My Affection came out in 1998, and Madonna's The Next Best Thing came out in 2000, both of which involved gay men / straight women friendships. So this was definitely a "thing" back then, and I don't think that's a bad thing. In the eyes of today, of course it would be more interesting and provocative and modern and socially conscious to give the characters a better twist (like the "if you were remaking it instead of reviving it" premise Kevin suggested at the end of the podcast). But for the time it came from, the characters Will and Grace were another step forward in (I guess for lack of a better term) helping to smooth the way for audiences to see gay characters in a different light. Maybe Will was too "straight-acting" for a gay character, I don't know, I can't speak to that like a gay person could, but given that before this many gay characters were highly stereotypical sidekick roles, maybe we needed to see someone like Will in a leading role in order to get the average audience to realize that gay people come in all shapes, sizes and personalities, and not all of them are like Jack, and whether they're like Will or like Jack, it doesn't matter. And that gay people can be leading characters instead of always relegated to being the neighbor or the random best friend. It was a novel premise and a necessary one to move things forward another step. And the thing is, they didn't seem 'unhealthy' to us (meaning me and my best friend, not speaking for anyone else here, LOL) back then. We saw them as flawed and complicated characters, but at the heart of them was deep love and care for one another. That's what shone through, above all else. The rest was just souped-up sitcom drama. I loved how well they knew one another, how they'd finish each other's sentences, how they saw each other's best and worst qualities and still loved one another - that, to me, was the heart of Will & Grace, as characters and as a series. That's why it's important, and that's why it was a good show and they're good (and relevant) characters.

I had an ex-roommate who had grown up with dogs and desperately wanted to get a dog, but I was the Will in that scenario, saying no, because there was just no way. Neither of us could afford the extra expenses involved, including a hike in rent for having a pet on the premises; my work hours were really long and unpredictable, so I wouldn't be around consistently to take care of the poor dog; and she was rarely if ever home, so she wouldn't be around to take care of it (and would end up foisting the responsibilities onto me, like she did so many other tasks around our apartment - one of the many reasons we ended up parting ways as roommates). What was really aggravating was that she used to threaten to pull a Grace - she swore that she was going to come home with a dog anyway and that I would have no say in the matter. It was pretty infuriating. So I would have been pretty pissed at Grace for what she did. (No matter how cute that dog was... and he really was adorable.)

You know how sometimes they say people look like their pets (or vice versa)? Whenever I watch this episode, I think that dog is the perfect match for Will. Obviously not in the color of the dog, but they seem to have the same expression. (Like in that photo Tara included at the top of the podcast article.) I understand what Kevin is saying in declaring Grace the LVP because of the irresponsible dog ownership, but I think I get why he may have thought she came off better upon first viewing the episode -- because she does behave as a good friend to Will in the very end. She's the one who's able to say to him, "You are putting all your love and attention on this dog but it's really that you need to start dating again. It's time." It was something that he needed to hear.

Frankly, I'm surprised Will & Grace didn't already have a QVC speech ready, to do together. I imagined they often watched QVC at home and heckled the hosts. Somehow I could have seen them wanting to turn their guest spot into a giant production that they created together, how they could do it better than the others. For a moment, when Grace pulled out the ear bud and started doing it on her own (before Will jumped on camera), I thought she was starting to get into it and do better. I was hoping we'd see her pull it off.

I was kind of hoping that it would turn out the guy was innocent, but that his wife (Cable's ex-roommate) would be the true guilty party.

"Damn it, Janet!"

I think she thought that he understood it was a terrible mistake (her trusting her former roommate to not betray her) and that she never would have intentionally tried to destroy evidence or hurt Bull and his company. His picking her up from prison, hugging her when she came out, driving her home... I think she thought things were going to be okay, that he would have to have a serious talk with her about protocol and trust but that they'd work through it. Perhaps a tiny part of her sees him as a father figure - for him to cast her away as irredeemable would feel devastating. Personally, I thought the writing for Bull in the end of that scene was pretty lacking. She gets out of the car and storms off, and he says something like "Well, I just got her out of prison, I thought she'd be more grateful"? How clueless of a supposedly well-trained and brilliant psychologist. 1) She already thanked him for getting her out; she even said that she was more grateful than she could ever express. and 2) OF COURSE she's upset! She just got fired after she thought you might have her back. Bull, you really don't understand, or think she's being ungrateful because she's feeling upset and alone?? Come ON. Surely the brilliant Dr. Bull can figure that out and not be so pissy. He's supposed to have great instincts, but sometimes I think the writers forget who he's supposed to be and they write ridiculous reactions like this.

Yeah... there really was no way he could answer that, that wasn't really in his own interests. LOL.

Absolutely. You just have to "go with it." Saying no to something means you're not going with what is offered and that shuts down the pace of everything. I once auditioned to perform at a summer Renaissance Faire and I think part of the reason I got the job was because of my willingness to go with it, in the moment of the audition, even though the person opposite me did something obnoxious. The group of us auditioning had to play a game called "What are you doing?" in which one person asks another person "What are you doing?" The person answering has to make something up on the spot, like "I'm hog-tying my neighbor" or "Running a marathon" or "Eating a live octopus" or whatever... then the person asking "What are you doing?" has to start miming what the other person said they were doing. Then a new person comes up and asks "What are you doing?" and the person miming has to come up with a new answer, which the new questioner has to start miming, and so on. It's a fast-paced game and can get really silly or crazy depending on the "What are you doing" answer. Case in point during my audition, when I asked someone "What are you doing?" he answered "Shoving my head up my ass." Which meant I had to start miming trying to shove my head up my butt. And I had to keep acting that out until the next person came up to ask me "What are you doing?" (so that I could stop miming that and suggest something for them to start miming, while I went back to the end of the line). Only, the rest of the people auditioning thought it was so funny, watching me pretend to contort myself into all sorts of crazy positions as if I were truly trying to shove my head up my own ass, that the next questioner waited FOREVER to come up and ask me "What are you doing?" so that I could finally stop and essentially tag them to do something else. But I couldn't stop until they asked me "What are you doing?" So I had to keep coming up with unusual ways to twist myself, while trying not to glare at the guy who came up with the suggestion. I couldn't say no, I couldn't tell him to come up with something else; I had to go with it. But the people auditioning us seemed to think I was pretty funny in the moment (and a good sport), so I think that counted in my favor when they decided to hire me. Thank goodness. *GRIN*

That's how I know her! It was driving me crazy. I kept watching her in those scenes, saying to myself, "I know her... how do I know her... I remember really liking her, but in what??" It was Looking, and she was fantastic in it. (Thank you to Kevin and Tara for pointing out that factoid in the review, because up to that point I just could not remember what I'd seen her in and I was going to have to look it up later. LOL.) That was probably one of my favorite jokes of the episode. I laughed and then later I was in the kitchen, saying, "Click!" and laughing some more. Heeeee. Thank you, Eric McCormack. There were a lot of jokes that made me laugh out loud in this one. I liked it.

"I've heard it can be... empowering for women... I don't know..." Dan was really squirming in that scene and it cracked me up. He was really trying to find the right, most respectful words. LOL.

There's something I don't trust about the new neighbor. I like that he goes with the flow in regard to Shaun's unusual characteristics, but in last night's episode I got a gut feeling that he was up to something. When he asked Shaun about being a doctor, he looked a little too thoughtful about it... my first thought was, is he going to be some sort of drug seeker?

Listening to the recap right now, and already I have to pause to send Sarah D. Bunting kudos for using an impressive word I've not heard before: ziggurat. If I knew that from school, I've apparently long forgotten it. So I had to look it up. *GRIN* I like that. Thanks, Sarah!

Resting Pierce face. Heeeeeee. The only beef I had with the kiss between Lucifer and Cain / Pierce is that Pierce went with awkward and surprised by the kiss, which was fine at first but then he kept acting like the kiss was awkward for as long as the kiss went on, even in the time it took for Chloe to get up from the surveillance equipment and look through the window and witness the kiss. I would think even if Pierce were truly caught off guard, eventually he would be able to behave like a person undercover and turn it into a decent kiss because he knows he needs to be playing the role of a husband. I mean, come on, Pierce, get with it. So I didn't love Tom's take on the kiss in that moment. (Same with his resting Pierce face - I loved the joke, but in the end he really should have been better at being undercover, instead of being all pissy while having dinner with the neighbors. He didn't have to go over the top like Lucifer was, but he could have been a little warmer to the neighbors, if for no other reason than to sneakily grill them about the neighborhood.) I did love their make-up in front of the crowd, though. That was really funny, and I loved how the whole neighborhood was all, "Awwwww..." as they made up (as their undercover roles and as themselves). It was actually pretty sweet. Loved Lucifer's badassery in this episode. Also had a good laugh at Maze and her "Why did you make me haul all my stuff up from the basement if you knew my 'forged in Hell' knife doesn't work on the guy??" She was so funny, with her great enthusiasm over how she uses each tool... and then stabs the person with her special knives. Oh, Maze... never change.

Yeah, I kept thinking, "Uh... Bull? You might not want to poke the psychopath too much. He's got nothing but time, for plotting how to get back at you for this. Don't be so smug."

I'm having trouble posting ever since the update finished, so let's see if I can get this to work (and apologies if it accidentally posts more than once): Whenever some teenager in a store calls me "ma'am," I hear Grace in my head wailing to Mr. Hutt, "Do I look like a ma'am to you????" You made some great points about how Grace set a terrible precedent, behaving the way she did in order to manipulate Mr. Hutt. I agree. But I will say that when this episode first aired, I remember not expecting it, so I was as stunned as Will when Grace suddenly switched gears from sobbing wreck to master manipulator. And back then, I remember laughing in surprise, and giving a little cheer for Grace, because if these guys weren't ever going to take her seriously enough to do real negotiations, then I had no problem with her screwing with Mr. Hutt. "You think I'm a silly woman whose head is filled with pillow filler? I'll show you..." After the way Will treated her, I had no problem with that. But you're right - it seems the show didn't know what point it was trying to make, thus making it kind of messy. But the surprise element was still funny to me. Side note: I love everything about the Jack and Karen scenes in this episode. Karen is SO funny, I love that Jack has this hidden talent, and I love Jack's reactions as it builds to the end and he snaps. Great comedy from both of them.