NutMeg

I like to be contrarian, and frankly it's not so difficult here - these twins are very tough physically, and if they are able to function separately they could be powerful assets in a tribe. If people can disregard pink underpants, they can disregard shrillness, can't they? At least these two can actually help in challenges.

And then at 4 there is a medevac and it's on to an F2. Guess who the F2 are?

We're thinking either Rachel or Hayden, with the right partner. (We = family, actually just the two of us who are into Survivor, Amazing Race and/or Big Brother, hubby couldn't care less).

Is there any talk of them not being renewed?

Good one, Drogo! I almost spilled my nice Sangiovese, thank you very much.

That's to those who cleared up for me that the club was indeed in AC. I'm not usually this dumb, but the lack of otherwise AC action made me wonder if Nucky had moved elsewhere... I guess I miss AC as a character. In that vein, first time ever I was happy to see Micky Doyle. Yeah, at least an all timer who is still who he was in season 1! Happy White's "buddy" is dead, because I understood less than half of what he said :-( I need me some close captions to watch this show STAT. Thanks to you all for explaining what happened (meaning of song, etc.) last episode, it completely flew over my head.

Aha, so King Unicorn (I know it's not the right spelling, but I can't help to read it such, and he gives off such warm vibes of rainbows and unicorns...) was Savonarola in one of his previous trips to Earth! Makes sense :-) When I grow up, I want a sister like Wendy. Killian worked better in the first season, smirk is a better look on him than angst (his version of angst looks like bad tummy ache to me). I hope it's more interesting than that, but I have a feeling that Ingrid stayed because of Dash. Wouldn't make any sense but I fear that's the reason the writers are going for. Wasn't FBI lady initially looking interested in Frederick? To the point that I thought she was his paramour, waiting for some new great sex game ("you won't feel a thing" still has me cracking up) when he finally got to her after his weird preliminaries around the bar area.

This, totally, I think it's the first time ever I've seen this expression on Nucky's face. I did a double take too, felt all warm and fuzzy, then crushed because he is soon to realize that Margaret has not come back out of love and longing... heartbreak awaiting :-( Where is Nucky's club? Is it in New York? Did we see anything of Atlantic City this season apart from the flashbacks?

I think the only way to salvage this thread is to organize a rewatch. Could be as little as an episode per month. And even absent newcomers, I thing the forum would be more lively with specific things to discuss - plus it would make it easier for all those peolpe who are just getting to watch to come here without risking spoilers. Anyone game?i

Gillian is such a tragic character, the most tragic of them all I think. Raped as a kid, she obviously had a messed up sense of what is right and what is wrong, and while overall she seems to have raised her baby well enough, she still initiated the incest. We don't know how/if she has any remorse about it, for all I know she could either have been guilt-wrapped about it since or had no idea that was that big a deal - filming let if open, imho. If as some expect she kills Nucky, I'd say well done, but it seems like an easy way out for this show.

"You won't feel a thing" was hilarious. Frederick, way to lower your partner's expectations. But then again Carolyn seemed ecstatic with the news, so what do I know...

One think I've kept wondering over my many years of reading historical fiction (Zevaco in my teens, Dumas in my 20s), and later real historical books, is whether as it seems to be implied you can indeed get yourself immune to poison by ingesting progressively higher dosages, such as what happens his with Della Rovere's minion (although the poor guy still bit the dust, it seems from - pseudo- history that some were luckier). Intuitively, I would say you can, as that's the basis of both homeopathy and vaccines, but then again if that is right why weren't all these gorging themselves on poison tablets the way I take my vit C and random other thingies each morning?

Just been bingewatching this, and enjoying it despise, or I should say because of all the historical inaccuracies (that way, no way to know what's coming next!), but one important historical fact they got right and that I didn't expect is the mention of Henri being sent hostage and living as a prisoner in Spain for a few years when he was a kid. Intesrestingly enough, it was when he was sent away such that a lady in waiting (who had more or less 20 years on him) expressed her dismay and kissed him goodbye - of course that was our Diane de Poitiers, whose impression on him was so strong that he never forgot her and kept her as his mistress despise the 20 (+?) year difference. Interestingly enough, Catherine was also kept as an hostage in a convent and, while I don't know much about Mary's early years, Catherine as an 11 year old or such had to live through an attack of the convent where she was being held, and history has it that she was targeted to be raped, such as to destroy the honour of the Medicis. Also, Catherine was very enamoured of Henri, but it took his mistress (Diane)' intervention for him to "honour" her in a way to produce heirs.

Then again both "twinnies" were mostly strong physically and mentally during their first Amazing Race and can be strategic when they're not melting out over nothing, as they did in their last appearance on TAR, so who knows? As long as they show restraint wrt shouting encouragement at each other, they/one of them could be gold in this.

I was also wishing we could discuss (or rather I could read other people's informed posts about) history, in the same way watching Boardwalk empire taught me a lot about a range of things, ranging from the real gangsters or not gangsters behind to story to the Magdalene laundries, or that a Mad Men forum that has since disappeared was full of interesting info about advertising in the sixties, sometimes based on personal experience. It would surely have been easier if it had been possible to watch and comment as we watched, but we could maybe try to recreate the experience somehow by choosing a theme and sharing what we know about it. I've been quite fascinated by the Medicis for a while and last winter, during my third trip to Florence, I bought tons of books that helped me follow some of what happened in the Borgias with a bit of previous knowledge (French invasion, Savonarola, some papal shenanigans, for instance), but I'd like to fill in the other bits. OTOH, I'll also gladly contribute whatever knowledge I have, but seems you two have it too :-)

Not as recent, but seeing as the topic is "seen them elsewhere?", I'd strongly recommend to anyone who has not seen it the mini-series Pillars of the Earth, where David Oakes plays a very flawed villain that you (I) somehow cannot help but feel half bad for, based on the page turner book of the same title by Ken Follet. There is just enough badassery and flawness in Oakes' acted characters that he seems an obvious choice for playing people you love to hate while feeling very sorry for them at the same time. Than again, seeing how sweet and vulnerable he looks on his Imdb picture, I think the guy could play anything. (Off topic but current because of the centenary of WW1: I also loved Fall of Giants, book by Ken Follet that is very informative about WW1, while entertaining, as well as Winter of the World, around WW2, the first two of his Century Trilogy).

And that may be what proves to be their demise. Cause otherwise they're strong, tough and go-getters - as long as they don't bicker.

Hey, you'll soon be tired to have only me here so far, but here it goes :-) Makes sense that they didn't eliminate Piccolomini - if the show had lasted, he would have been a nice transition - wasn't he rumoured to have died of poison? Surely, this could have been tied neatly to the Borgias in the script. I disagree with you though on François Arnaud as Cesare, I found him amazing and it might well be the role of his career for a while. I'd love to see Orson Welles' version (well, Orson Welles on anything is gold), and never saw Tyrone Power's, but I think I is a reflection of a time when movies (and I'd classify the Borgias as a superlong movie rather than a series) had to be moral overall. Not sure though of the movie it was and the year, so take it with a grain (or a ton) of salt.

I concur, takeittotheBanks. I've like the evolution from sweet innocent girl to 50% sweet and 50% cutthroat later on, which makes a lot of sense both in the story and more generally. The character was also badass is saving the pope's life. Even the incest part kind of made sense, icky as it was, in the circumstances, which is no small feast. I'm both looking forward to seeing Holliday Grainger in other roles and afraid to see her in something that's not Lucrezia Borgia, if that makes sense.

He did look fatter in his portrait, thought! (Then again, can you imagine Jeremy Irons in a fat suit !?)

aha, I missed Piccolomini - given the length of his reign I guess it was a case of blink and you miss it/him. I'm one of those who requested the forum, and here I am. (and I didn't find it easy to find, but I'm dense like that). In other news, it seems that the marriage of Juan Borgia was skipped (no need for it, I guess, we got enough insight into his character without it) but I find it interesting that in the scenario the Italian noblewoman that was the mother of the four kids of our dear pope became a Spanish courtesan. Makes sense in light of season 3 but a bit of a reconnect nonetheless. I'm curious about della Rovere's real influence about the French invasion, I remember he was one among various triggers, and I know said invasion didn't go as smoothly as shown, though it was a delight to watch, in no small part thanks to the freakish nature of the French king.

Given that the new pope was della Rovere, if only 1/10th of what we saw was accurate, I'm not surprised he damned pope Alexander!

Winner that impressed me the most: Parvati, Kim, Sandra, Yul and Danni. Additional winners that I really liked: Nathalie, Aras, Denise. Teams that I really liked: Casaya is my favourite ever. Aitu 4 second. All the cast of Guatemala third. So many liked contestants: above mentioned + Ozzy first and 3rd season, both Courtney (one Casaya, I like crazy..., onre Yates), Shane, Rob some seasons, Amanda her first season mostly, the people without whom the winner wouldn't have won such as Twila and Trish, PG from China, Erin from Tocantins, Tina from B vs W (never saw her first season), and more recently Denise and Tasha. Least liked would be Coulton and Dreamz. I'm actually ok now with Johnny Fairplay, who I hated initially, after having seen much worse. I'm not even mentioning the Hantzes, they're in another category entirely, the uncle could have been fun with a few tweaks but burnt his chances forever, the nephew should never have been cast on a reality show - first time could have been a mistake, second was damn right wrong in so many ways -, and that's on TPTB. And Na'Onka, who was shoved up our throat all season only to end up quitting :-( Probable forgot loads so reserve the right to come back with more :-)

That reminds me of a game I played as a kid, Mille bornes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mille_Bornes) where to each "hazard/hiccup" (in this case, let's say being voted out) there exists a remedy (in this case not being voted out). But if you follow my childhood game, it gets more intesresting because the hiccups could be, in the case of Survivor, "cannot participate in/win IC", remedy "sucker, I sure can" or "you get a disadvantage at the next challenge", remedy "not so, I've got the card that gives me an advantage to counter your disadvantage", etc. So basically I'm thinking that multiple idols could be fun if they all had different powers. For the record I don't particularly like HII. But I still think if you want to have them, my idea is better than Tyler Perry's.

The fuzzy roadblock rule was a major part of me NOT enjoying the finale. Besides finding the last leg blah I was at least hoping that D&C would be penalized for their unbalanced number of RBs. And in addition, I disliked D&C - well mostly Dave, insufferable for his lame mocking of Dave and Rachel, his insistence that his son do all the RB (I was soooo hoping that it would bite him in the ass and he'd have to face a severely physical challenge before the end), and his lame tendon/old guy shtick (and it turned out he's not even 60, as he claimed all season long). I hate that only one team seem to have been informed of this new roadblock rule (maybe all were, but it didn't seem so in editing, because they all made sure they were pretty even going into the final leg). Coupled with how the Amazing Super Idol rules were not made clear to contestants in Survivor, I'm not happy with CBS right now.