HalcyonDays

The death of Katrina? No? Ichabod and Abbie in bed together? Not yet? The plot lines to make sense? What about Abbie losing her shit and finally yelling at Ichabod? Pleasekthx? Jenny being an actual witch? Yes! Actual answers to the zillion questions I have had since day 1? Hee. This better be good....it's sad that last year I would have been crazy excited about this. This year, I bet the writer's think we've been waiting for Katrina's magic to get strong, that Katrina reunites with Ichabod and Henry to be redeemed by 'a mother's love.' Boring (to me.)

Yeah, but you notice they never talked about redeeming Abraham. Why not both? Why is he not worthy of redemption? Both Horseman have a personal and emotional connection to the Cranes. I've also long complained that the Crane's are too selfish and playing god, since they don't mind a large body-count of innocents, as they continue on their delusion about redeeming Henry. (and I bet he will be redeemed anyway *grin*) I totally understand what you are saying, but they seem to have tunnel-vision with Henry. Abbie can see it - hence her frequent eye-rolling - and a lot of people here (and elsewhere) are complaining about it. Which now raises the question. Originally, you needed all four horseman to kick-start "the end of days." But now that Moloch is in the real world, what is the purpose of the horseman? I mean, we really don't know why Moloch is here, and what he intends to do once he becomes an adult. What's his plan?

Here in Canada, we have a brand called Presidents Choice (aka PC). They have this amazing limited edition ice cream called Candy Cane Chocolate Fudge Crackle. It's vanilla ice cream with candy cane pieces and chocolate crackle pieces and it is amazing. They put in in the Loblaws grocery stores before Christmas and it sells out so quickly. Its totally addictive!

Ichabod tells you exactly how many friends he has. From "The Indespensible Man" And how is it you have 500 friends? I had only seven close companions. Four of them died, and those were good odds." Even Abbie says is straight out. Family is more than just blood, which is why I struggle so much with this redemption arc. Dude, you didn't KNOW your son. You love the concept, but that's nothing to sacrifice the world on. Blood does not equal family (in my view). Episodes are taped long in advance. They had this episode completed LONG before the whole Deliverance mess and everything that came after it. The show didn't cobble together "Mama" as a last minute salve. That episode was just a coincidence. The interviews and advertising with Beharie and Greenwood, however, was damage control. The show is starting filming on episode 15 now, so any rewrites or changes in direction will be minor. They are too far into it to make major changes to the over plot arc, but they will make minor changes.

Philip Iscove retweeting the PTV recap for "Mama"... I wonder if they bothered to read through the threads here...If so, hey writers, read our criticisms and take our advice. We're the ones that give you the ratings.

Well, this show certainly has had no problem with brushing under the carpet all of the shady stuff that Katrina has done. Apparently she can do no wrong. You guys have to stop writing Jenry - I keep reading JENNY every time and have to do a double-take! But yes, Abbie taking out Henry would be way to damaging to the bond. I don't see it anyway, because the Witnesses have to be united to do anything significant against Moloch and the Horsemen. The season 1 finale says this. Abbie had to be left in Purgatory, to break up the Witnesses, therefore Henry could break the seal and become War. The two of them have to work together to take out Henry. Honestly, I want Ichabod to be the one to deal the final blow. He needs to be the one to take out his son.

If its Strongbow from tap: no ice. Strongbow from a can or bottle: with ice. Luckily we have both options here. *grin*

Sidles up to beautiful mahogany bar: "Pint of Strongbow and a chaser of rum." /Settles in, eyes narrowed, surveying the room....

As far as I know, Hawley doesn't know that Ichabod is really 200+ Revolutionary soldier. No one told him. I would expect that Hawley just sees Ichabod as a quirky strange British guy. But you never know with this show - they tend to not tell you anything that you should know. I am dying to see what his reaction is going to be, if Hawley finds out!!

Oh Orlando, the shade you bring gives me life! God I love that man. He and Beharie know...they so know what is wrong with the show.... I think it is a two-parter. Episode 2.10 (Magnum Opus) airs next week. The week after - Dec 1st - 2.11 The Akeda airs, then it's the mid-season break. SH is supposed to come back January 5th, 2015.

Both Abbie and Ichabod has lost a lot, but in different ways, due to circumstance. Ichabod has lost his parents, family and all of his friends and everyone in his life. Katrina is the only one returned to him. Ichabod lost his entire adult life. All of the people he knew, his independence, self-sufficiency, knowledge, etc. His childhood was stable though. Abbie has lost her parents, Corbin, Andy and a few select friends. Jenny is the only one returned to her. Abbie lost most of her childhood. She was denied a stable family, lost her sister, developed severe trust issues, internalized everything and is closed off. Her adulthood was more stable, what with being a cop, going to Quantico, etc. They both have lost a lot in life, but it is different for each character and the way they deal with is it completely different too. Like phoenics or fantique said: Katrina and Crane are willing to sacrifice other people to save themselves/their own family. Abbie is willing to sacrifice her family to save humanity. Now whom do you admire more? Me, I admire Abbie more because she sees the bigger picture, isn't mired in her own selfishness. She is the one I want tasked with saving humanity. The Cranes? They need to stop having tunnel vision and start looking at the bigger picture.

Yeah, a great episode with some lovely sister moments with Abbie and Jenny, closure for the Mills sisters and lots of pulling of heart strings, and a creepy story! It's really good - I highly recommend you watch it. Yes he is - which is why he needs to be taught a lesson, and be humbled very soon. It really makes me sad that the writers managed to destroy his character so much that he has turned into such a dick. He was so amazing last year, and now you side-eye him. Breaks my heart. I agree - maybe in the season finale? I can hope, right? Because every other character contributes except for her. Katrina causes problems, not solves them. As for the shippers - yeah, read some comments that said they wanted the couple to have ANOTHER kid, and said that they would be the best parents evah. Yeah sure. *rolls eyes* Ichabod, yes. Katrina...no. Show, do NOT have them spawn out another kid, please? No more demon babies. No more drama. No more them.

I really like this two part episode and will rewatched it every one in a while, and as time goes on, the story becomes closer and closer to reality. The line that BC yells out "There are no Jobs!" Welcome to 2014. As time goes on, this episode gets closer and closer to reality. The huge divide between rich and poor, and the fact that the poor has little choice, because of lack of jobs, and laws made by rich people, etc. Again, welcome to 2014. It's scary how reflective Past Tense is of our modern day.

Totally agree. I love Jenny and Irvings characters and have greatly missed them all season. I think Lyndie Greenwood and Orlando Jones are awesome! It must be her aura or something, because now you know why Ichabod acts like a complete fool whenever the name Katrina is uttered, or she is in his presence. Brain cells are lost, just like with Abraham. Too bad she doesn't have that same effect on Henry. If - IF - this show gets a third season, Jenny's past when she was "finding things" for Corbin needs to be explained. Lots of storylines there. Oh, and also reveal that she is a witch!

Totally forgot to mention. The one thing I didn't feel that really explained is WHY Abbie is the Witness. Lori Mills said that the power passed through their families for generations. The only thing I can think of is the eldest born child gets the Witness power, and the other kids are maybe latent witches or something. That is what frustrates me sometimes about the show. We know that Ichabod had "the power to Witness." and that this power was present in the Mills family for generations, but why those two particular people. Like I said, first born for Abbie makes sense, so does that apply to Ichabod too? And Jenny is so a witch. She needs to be a witch. Katrina needs to go, and we already know that the trio can do magic just as - and more - effectively.

I missed Crane in this episode too, but let's face it, Ichabod Crane is larger than life. With him, instead of Hawley, at Tarrytown, he would take some of the focus away from Jenny and Abbie. As much as I wanted to see him interact more with Jenny, Hawley was a better fit, because he stayed mostly in the background. Shows tend to write an episode here or there to give the principle actors a break, so they are sidelined an episode here or there. Mison carries a lot of screen time. It was more evident in season 1 - Mison is in almost every scene. In the flaskback scenes of season 1, he is there, but not Beharie, of course, so that more time off for her. I think is was more that the focus needed to be solely on the MIlls sisters, and also simply a bit of a break for Mison. But he does do "sick" well. Really good episode. The interactions between Abbie and Jenny are so rich and wonderful. Greenwood and Beharie are amazing together. You really sense the sisterly relationship, but also how each sister's personality is different. Jenny is the more emotional one, Abbie the more closed off, logical one. Loved how they show that Abbie remembers more of the good times with Mama, but Jenny, since she is a year or so younger, doesn't. Why on earth did Katrina not even slightly question where this baby came from? Henry, who has been killing people all over the place, is just going to open his heart to orphan. Please. Someone up thread mentioned how could the baby NOT be demon. Well, Henry is half witch, half human. If it were his kid, it would have been conceived BEFORE he became the Horseman of War. Just like Abraham was a regular guy before becoming death. Maybe I am wrong about the 18th century and babies just popped up into ones home all of the time *sideeye. She should have know better...this character, I tell you. StruggleWitch indeed. Cynthia Stevenson! Yes! I loved her on Men in Trees (fun good show!) and totally forgot Orlando Jones was also on the show for three episodes. So good to see her. She did Nurse Rached-like evil very well. And Irving is out! Excellent. Him trying to down himself was so sad...so glad the Scooby Gang is back together. Tell me that last shot of the five of them in the car wasn't simply heaven. Overall, wonderful episode.

As a newbie, still learning the game but I agree - not enough evidence. 7 No Lynch (stacey, SVNBob, photo fox, Athena, BizBuzz, SilverStormm, HalcyonDays) 3 to bring on the darkest of night.

Much more to add to this thread tomorrow, when I can properly compile my thoughts But I will quickly state: Fantastic episode (wipes tears from eyes), totally pulled at my heartstrings and dammit, I'm a mess. On the shallow side...dammit Orlando....you are looking bloody good....*swoons* Just...wow.....

^^ THIS - All of this phoenics. Crane needs to experiences some consequences of his actions, and losing Katrina at the hand of his son - whom he should have killed in the first place - would be an excellent way to boost up the story, close off CFD, get rid of Henry and Katrina and finally teach Ichabod a much-needed long overdue lesson. And I like how it would affect Abraham too...damn, I hope your theory is what happens, phoenics!

I can totally see that scenario and makes total sense. I like it except for one thing. If Katrina becomes Horseperson of War, then we are going to have to deal with Crane now focusing on saving Katrina from being a Horseperson, and all of that drama that comes with it, just like speculating that Abraham could be redeemed also. I just need her to sacrifice herself and go away so that there is no chance of coming back and Crane can finally move his focus from her. But good theory!