Aeryn13

I want so much more than that. A real big heroic success that he himself can claim. Not being saved. That reinforces nothing else than the ones doing the saving are the real heroes while he was too weak and not good enough and needed to be saved in the first place. It`s stuff like that which IMO chips away and ultimately destroys any belief one has in oneself. In the end, lots of people would consider a beloved pet "worth" saving as well, depending on the situation and the danger level. I get the trope in general but I don`t see it working here and I don`t see it as a compliment for the character or growth or anything in that vein. What I want more than anything is for Dean`s STRENGTH to be acknowledged and validated. Love and respect are not the same thing and I have not forgotten the Purge speech, the denigration of every heroic or noble quality I saw in the character. Right now I prioritize respect so much more over love. Stuff like Cas saying Dean WAS a role model, I loved that scene so much. And was so unhappy it kinda got negated in the end with Cas` reaction to it all coming across so judgmental and "oh, guess, I was wrong". Don`t care for "I`ll save you because you are my brother". I would a thousand times rather have Dean believing in his own strength (not bank on the true heroes caring enough to do something about his "weakness") and fighting the Mark of successfully in the end. And then the other characters professing their respect for that. And the small fry saves are nice and all but the character deserves something big as well.

But he thinks of himself as nothing but a monster and a born killer. Like the promo monkeys and the writers. It`s bad enough they hate the character, I don`t need this self-flagellation on top of it. And if he removes the Mark then what? Just more endless guilt, shame, groveling and apologies? Not to mention gazing up in awe at the saintly wonderfulness that is apparently Sam? That is both the opposite of what I want to see and what I think Dean needs. For both, I would like to have some gosh damn validation of him as a hero and a good person. And NOT in any way have that be related to being Sam`s nanny or support or or butler stuff like that. I want the writers to find and acknowledge heroism and goodness in the character of Dean that is just about Dean. I want a phoenix rising from the ashes story where he, too, gets his big redemption and win. Anything less than that and basically the storyline is crap in my eyes.

I liked the episode itself fine. It was fitting come-uppance for Esther. I could even understand Kol`s grudge since it WAS always the trinity of Klaus, Elijah and Rebekah first and foremost. And while Klaus daggered and/or treated those two horribly as well over the years, he made no secret that there was closer to his heart than Kol ever was. I`ll exclude Finn right away since I get the impression everyone voted him off the island back then. Still, while I am glad Rebekah`s character is back, I do hope Claire Holt hasn`t said no to further guest stints. Her chemistry with JoMo still rocks and it was nice to see some tender moments between the character. If pressed, I believe Klaus favours Rebekah even over Elijah. The thing that weirded me out, though, was how similar the Elijah/Hailey sex scene was to what I remember from the Hailey/Klaus sex scene back in the TVD. I mean Klaus threw her on a table, while she is down to her bra and her hair fans out, Klaus looming over her, climbing on top basically. Here, Elijah throws her on something, she is down to her bra and her hair fans out while he looms over her, about to climb on top. What the fuck? Is this the brother`s favourite shared sex position? I get some repetitiveness in sex scenes. Over on TVD several ladies have thrown Damon up against a wall and tore off his shirt but it was different girls independantly of each other and I can write it off as something about him inviting that. But Elijah re-creating pretty much a step-by-step version of his brother bedding the same girl falls into serious weirdness for me. Please don`t tell me they actually talked about the specifics of it before.

Back in the day we also had our first werewolf episode which went like "oh, this nice formerly human girl has turned...sorry, Madison, we looked for five whole minutes but there is no cure...I completely agree, kill me on the spot". And now in the age of happy werewolf families where Garth marries into, it looks like they almost murdered her for no good reason. So I think it`s way worse what has been happening with the vessels for years now than what Dean did here. Maybe demons happily took good people as vessels just for shits and giggles. So those good people deserve a knife to the gut without a care in the world but I`m supposed to cry for people who actively chose to be evil? Not really, show. They have casually made their protagonists murderers without a care for a long time now. I`ve accepted it and let it slide. But that means they can also kiss my ass about trying to break out the "oooohhhh, this is so dark and evil and murderous" now. If Dean had killed Cas and Sam and raped Claire himself right then and there, we would be talking a new level of darkness - which is NOT what I want to see ever because hello irredeemable - but the moral outrage train has long since left the station for me.

It wouldn`t have made sense to me if he did. Dean didn`t randomely freak out in the diner and kill the patrons or try to jump Cas there without rhyme or reason, he obviously freaked out on those people. That means, even in his Mark"ed" state, he still differentiates somewhat. He isn`t blindly killing everything that moves in front of him. And even then with his insane Sam-obsession, Sam would probably be save. Right now? Safe as houses. And he looked completely shell-shocked and out of it, horrified. I don`t think he was a danger to anyone anymore at this point. Sam freaking out and knifing Dean would have been a far more likely scenario there then the other way around. Another CW show, the 100, recently had a scene where a character commited an outright massacre that made Dean here look sane, stable and perfectly heroic. And afterwards that character had a total psycho glimmer in his eyes when his friends found him. It was creepy as hell. But even there I was completely sure he wasn`t any danger to them/his love interest.

For me this distinction makes it "okay". In the sense that it isn`t character destruction. Because it wasn`t Original Recipe Dean doing it, because he wouldn`t do that. A supernatural influence was necessary to push him that far. That means the act itself isn`t completely his fault. I mean, Cain couldn`t control the bloodlust either, not before a few millenia passed by so I`m not gonna hold Dean to impossible standards here either and blame him for ultimately being unable to control it. At least he is still able to control it enough that he doesn`t go slaughtering random people everywhere. Now does it completely absolve him of responsibility? Nope. Because he took on the Mark blind. Just like Castiel took on the Purgatory souls blind and then the Leviathans basically took him over and bam, field of dead angels. It wasn`t Castiel and only Castiel doing that either. And I didn`t blame him for not being able to control the voices in his head. Sam slurped down the blood and just went "lalala, serves a good purpose, side effects, shmide effects" and he never seemed to care much that it brought out the arrogance 10fold. What we have here is IMO the difference between cold-blooded murder - which would be harder to come back from for a character - vs. killing under genuine temporary insanity. Something that bugged me actually more were Cas and Sam`s reactions to the scene. First they sit around in the car, kinda like the family in Home Alone when they are trying to figure out if they forgot something and the audience yells "you forgot Kevin, lady, you know, your kid?" Then they race back in and Cas is actually bringing Claire. And while Dean is sitting their clearly shell-shocked, Cas looks on in abject horror as if he had never personally slaughtered a field of angels himself. If that look was supposed to convey horror because it dawned on him that he would have to make good on what Dean asked him to do, I consider it an acting fail because it just looked judgmental. And Sam, the only and first thing out of Sam`s mouth is "OMG, justify yourself to me right this instant". There should have been a mix of emotions, with worry and horror FOR Dean at least as much, if not moreso than AT Dean. The reaction and dialogue delivery boiling down to "deny your evident monster-dom" was NOT a suitable character reaction IMO. Going by their reactions, I got the feeling that had they had the Blade ready, both would have knifed Dean on the spot. Which would have been easy in the bzzzzzzz-catatonia state he was. If the situations were reversed IMO Dean would have conveyed worry FOR the person, be it Sam and also to a degree Cas. But somehow, it once again doesn`t work with the roles flipped. Just like when Dean was the sidekick he spent endless hours worrying and angsting about the person with the mytharc problem and last year with the first MOC Sam and Cas had a one-minute conversation that basically resulted in "well, good talk". Are the writers simply incapable of actually flipping the roles or are these supposed to be valid character reactions? As in are those characters incapable to pull the Dean-like support role? And acting-wise, equally, can`t they do what Jensen played for the last 9 years or what? Because on his end, I think he does the flipped role nicely. He plays "something else" just like the others had before him.

I disagree. Resurrected!Samuel notwithstanding - that dude was a wackjob - what was there onscreen showing that Mary or her parents were bloodthirsty sociopaths who were born evil? Because that, to me, is what the statement "born a killer" means. And yeah, what about Sam, too saintly for it again? What I would agree with is that Dean has a warrior mentality now. If he would have always had that vs. his life experiences shaping him is a nature vs. nurture argument and I`m always coming down heavily on the side of nurture. I agree. I can`t imagine a writer who likes a character (not a villain, that is) ever assessing them as "a born killer" and basically claiming their entire core is rotten and evil. But if they do look at the character as basically a cross between a weak loser and an evil psycho, especially compared to Sam who for some reason is the epitome of wonderfulness, it explains the writing on this show. Where they got a problem is the acting because Jensen is not playing Dean as someone who has always been purely evil and nothing but evil deep down. I do think the writers have little to do with putting the promos together but since the exact same sentiment was expressed by writers - and the wife of the co-showrunner to boot so I`m guessing they pretty much share - I`d say it just overlaps. Kripke IMO thought of Dean as heroic, just a heroic sidekick not worth as much as Sam but at least somewhat admirable. But the new writers IMO see no good or heroic qualities whatsoever in the character. Not a single one.

But it`s how the writers see the character. The nepotism duo pretty much said it outright on the DVD commentary. Sam is their sainted hero, Dean is this. So, going by the promo he will be off the reservation for the next few eps and they will bring in Metatron to ask about a "cure". Why in all the heavens did they not only cut Demon!Dean so terribly short and didnd`t have him do anything dark when a couple of episodes later, they make human!Dean under the Mark`s influence go kill-crazy? They could have done that storyline with Demon!Dean. Heck, they could have made him lay dormant for the last few flller episodes. Then again Dean never got much if any whitewash. I will still say that isn`t really him because he has a supernatural influence on him. If DemonBloodSam gets an excuse, MOC!Dean does as well.

Ah, okay. I see what you mean. I think, though, while Dean was briefly of the species demon just as Cas was briefly of the species human, that is different to me than evil. Most demons, probably all, are or have been "evil". Cain appears not to be evil anymore but has been for centuries according to his own words. So technically, demon equals evil would not be an unfair assessment to make in general in the show. But so far, I haven`t seen evil from Demon!Dean. Which is why I don`t put him under the generalized terms of demons. Most humans are likely not evil but they still can be. Angels can be and do evil, though as a species they are not considered as such. Monsters are but range a wide variety. I doubt they will reveal much more of Demon!Dean`s actions because in the end they still need the character viable as one of the (technical) leads. And this isn`t Angel or Xena where they build on a truly dark backstory. Nor even Vampire Diaries where evilness and slaughter are like temper tantrums and are handwaved in some form. This show is chicken-shit in that regard, as evidenced by the oodles of whitewash always standing ready for Sam, so I think/hope Dean benefits from it as well.

I know the Winter-Finale aka today`s episode is kinda considered to mark the end of the first half of a Season but for me it`s more like the end of the first third of the Season. But even if we say the "second half of the Season" would be anything from 10 to 23 and the Mark of Cain was resolved in ep 13/14-ish or so, I don`t think in the end it plays a big part in the "second half" of the entire Season. Just like Demon!Dean didn`t play a big part in the first half of the Season. He just didn`t. If the resolution of the Mark gets roughly the same treatment, I think we can say "it was in the Season". Like the muscial. Like the clue episode. Those were there as well. Carver once explicitely stated that Demon!Dean would be around for "the majority of the first half of the Season". And seriously, how bad at actual math can you be? Or how much of a liar? So I`d take "big part in second half" with a HUGE grain of salt as well.

I thought Lester was played as a scumbag so I wasn`t personally bothered by his death. Neither by Sam faciliating a deal for him. Considering stuff they have already done, that was a little blip on the darkness scale. However, it would also be exactly be white-washing to me to say "because he was an ass, Saint Sam the wonderful was once again justified in everything he did". He is actually lucky, Demon!Dean showed up at that house and was in an ornery mood because otherwise the wife would be dead and not Lester. Furthermore, I don`t think Demon!Dean was evil. Both brothers, Castiel, Bobby and lots of other characters have done more "evil" than I saw of Demon!Dean. Singing bad karaoke and being a hedonist isn`t evil. Being a jerk to a woman isn`t evil either. He killed a couple demons in self-defense. He did some douchy things with the stripper and beating up the bouncer. But for demons my yardstick for evil is burning mothers on ceilings, eating babies and being Hell`s most feared torturer. Demon!Dean was in a particularly bad mood. I thought Soulless!Sam was a smug asshole who apparently had his share of collateral damage but he doesn`t meet my expectations for "evil" either. If we`re going for humans, what the Benders did, I actually consider evil. Ironically, I think he could be much better for me if not for the disconnect between show and tell. What I see is a character who most often annoys me because of how they act, how I would probably axe-murder if they pulled some of their shit with me. But that in itself isn`t the problem. In Elementary I favour Sherlock over Joan despite the fact that if I met them in real life, I couldn`t stand this guy for likely more than 2 minutes and she seems like a nice enough person. But the show never tries to tell me that what I find completely obnoxious about Sherlock is anything but and basically I`m delusional. Whereas with Sam, literally everything that I find annoying I get the written message on how great it makes him, how mature, noble, forgiving and whatnot. It gets constantly validated and for plot-purposes rewarded. Yup, I consider the world-save a plot-reward. Don`t give a rat`s ass if it was bad for the character. If Dean had been thrown into the cage for neverending torture after saving the world, I would have cheered too. Hence, I can`t see Sam as real or relatable even a little bit. Not with the constant pimpage of him. It`s more like your friends trying to fix you up with a guy and you realize pretty soon it won`t work but in the beginning it`s not biggie, just opposite that do not attract. But they try to sell you on everything that puts you off and you start feeling like you`re in the freaking Twilight Zone.

It could be transfered to Cas. Or even to Sam though at the moment I find that less likely. But storyline transference from Dean to someone else? That goes with this show like Wayward Son with the penultimate episodes, meta-episodes and somewhat tasteless jokes. Besides, I think the promo material right now holds the same meaning like "Year of the Deanmon". Which translated to three episodes and a lame-ass cure. Misha says trying to make the Mark gone will be a "big mission for the rest of the Season". That could equally be hyperbolic and he is talking about the episodes being shot now. Besides, if Cas is "instrumental in de-Marking Dean", then that sounds more like a done deal. Afterwards it could be still be a question to "make the Mark gone". Just not from Dean but from another character who got handed that storyline. After being played for a fool regarding Dean`s storylines so many times in a row - I can`t even count the times where there were vague or no spoilers at all for Dean and yet I`ve read "wait for it, something will come later" and not once, not a single one time something came later in those Seasons - I can just not not expect anything but the worst. So far, even IF they surprised me, it was by doing worse than what I figured would be the worst. Other times it just met the quota of "the worst".

I would love that as well, actually if Dean did it as human or demon, I wouldn`t care but I doubt the show would ever revisit the character. Like you, it bothered me that they gave the kill to Sam. Something more for Dean to feel inferior about since SuperSam did it. Personally, I openly admit that I`m a vengeful person so giving someone comeuppance - or at the very least them getting it somehow fills me with great satisfaction. Even if I`m down myself, that is a great pick-me-up. On the other hand "living well" doesn`t really do it for me because I can`t even do it until I exacted some form of "revenge". So I was really disappointed that Dean didn`t get that closure himself. As for the teaser, somehow I`m not convinced Dean becomes a demon again. What would that accomplish? Another pointless cure story, this time in the span of three minutes instead of three episodes? We know a big focus of the episode will be Cas and Claire, Dean and the MOC didn`t even make it into the official summary so it will likely book-end the episode. Possibly be the cliffhanger. But then I expect resolution already in ep 10 because after that we have a "Charlie saves the day, this time likely being a super-duper-hunter after Oz" episode. And lets make no mistake, when it`s a Charlie-episode, everyone else is just window dressing. No way would Thompson allow his alter ego not to outshine everyone and everything. What room would there be for MOC-angst in an episode like this? After that it`s gonna be episode 12 which must be very Sam-centric, according to a tweet by Glass. And one where Jensen seemed to have missed 95 % of filming it so it stands to reason Dean has maybe one scene in it. The placing of the episodes alone makes me think whatever "darkness" they are going for here will be on and done with in the span of a couple minutes. So really, how juicy could it be as a footnote really?

Ouch, that would be super-horrible. I imagine if Enzo killed Sheriff Forbes - the last remaining parent in Mystic Falls - that would spell his eventual doom as a character. With Matt, I kinda think that, too, only the gang wouldn`t kill him in retribution but he would probably sacrifice himself later for redemption. I do hope Liz survives. But what else could the "devastating news" for Caroline be? Unless the summary person was on crack again and it`s another case of the "and Silas (or Qetsiyah, I forgot) demands an unspeakable act from Damon" which turned out to be snapping Stefan`s neck. An act as "unspeakable" as sleeping in on this show. It could be Stefan who has come to a conclusion about his feelings for Caroline tells her they aren`t of the romantic variety but that would make the entire Steroline plot so far which receieved lots of build-up and several romantic pointer scenes incredibly pointless.

I thought they were atrocious, too, but since it happened with Dean a couple of times, I`m surely not gonna go "but God forbid it happens to Sam". The "oh, Sam must always hold a more special place" is the big reason the writing has completely turned me off the character. So personally, I`d consider it well-earned karma if for once, after ten years, he does not. Of course since I watch supernaturally-themed shows for supernaturally-themed stuff, a story with powers, a destiny and the supernatural specialness is always preferable to me. I don`t even count the others as storylines, Human "mundane" angst can be given to the characters in their supernatural arcs but on its own? There is a reason I don`t much watch shows that have only that. Holds no interest for me. In terms of favourite supernatural "creatures" on the show, do ghosts count? Because they have written demons and angels into the ground at this point. I once read a small casting call for "goon angel" and that told me everything I needed to know. Vampires, shapeshifters, werewolves - all cool at some point also got their already with various retcons. Reapers used to be cool but then they became angels as well and see above. Pagan Gods were one of the first to go in terms of "oh this is cool...oh well, it WAS cool...please don`t." Ghosts are IMO still scary or touching or poignant and you can still make good episodes about them. I think that is due to the fact that for some time now the writers consider ghost so small-fry and lower-tier that they are not good enough to be considered the motif for an episode and hence are hardly revisited these days. Dodged a bullet there, ghostly beings.

Probably. Though they went through entire Seasons where Dean didn`t have a storyline, nothing supernaturally special or themed, just some sideline angst and Sam support, so why would it be such a big deal if for the first time in the entire show Sam went a complete Season without a story? What`s good for the goose and all. Besides, the character has already gotten so many, even if he got none till the show ends, he`d still come out on top. Meanwhile this Mark thing is all Dean has and has had for years. That`s why I would at best never want to see it go. But alas.

They haven`t really had any good interaction (or any interaction period) for some time but the sneak peak brought something back that has always been unique to me about their relationship and that is how Cas responds to Dean`s damage. Not a boohoo speech, not the "tough love" crap that Bobby loved to dish out but couldn`t handle himself for shit. Instead being calm and compassionate. Cas isn`t cloying and overly pimpage-like here but he still validates Dean`s worth in other terms than "you are an alright nanny". I get that for Dean so little - or rather usually not at all - and I think Cas is the only character in the show who does it. Maybe Crowley in his own, twisted way. There was a little scene quite like it when Cas (with amnesia, thinking he was some faith healer) and Dean were en route to help Sam with his Hellucinations. Of course I utterly hate what they made of the relationship between the brothers so pretty much anything else looks better in comparism now.

If they wanted to, there could have been a little fist-pump scene of Doug-comeuppance mainly for the viewers. If for some reason Doug had simply seen Donna and Dean together, without any set-up. They could have been talking animatedly about vampires or something, just so a third party from further away could have misjudged the situation as flirting. Then Doug would have had lemon-face, possibly without either Donna or Dean even noticing. I get that 40 minute episdes are not that long and lots of stuff that even gets filmed gets cut and a scene like I described it would have been superflouus to plot or characters but heck, it`s not like they have never wasted precious screentime on filling material, boring and superflouus and/or offensive material. So a cute throwaway of the "dick" getting theirs in the background wouldn`t be the most wasteful thing they could do in an episode. If - and that is something guys like this do - he was boastful to other guys, witnessing a Dean-Donna scene in front of them would have get the mockery turned on him. "Oh, you thought you were a 7 and your ex only a 3? Look like SHE can land a 10, sucker". That would have shut him up, too, because he would have basically lost face. In the end, he would have resented the hell out of them either way. Being told off, being shown to be a fool, wouldn`t matter. And I`m thinking he just resented Donna and Jodi in that moment for being a "screechy woman" as well. A woman standing up for another one in a moment like this will IMO not really get the guy to change his mind nor his behaviour. Instead they will wait till they get their "victim" alone again and then mock them some more. And I fully realize I just described your basic schoolyard bully but I do not actually believe the basic modus operandi changes with adulthood.

Promo for ep 6.10: http://www.spoilertv.com/2014/12/the-vampire-diaries-episode-610_5.html Isn`t this vendetta-thing Enzo has got going on a bit belated? If he`d made a big fuzz after being freed from capture, I could have understand it - especially with his history - but he seemed to simply shrugg it off for the most part. Speaking of the character`s history, they could have done way more with it. Stefan had a torturous experience for three months and clearly suffered from PTSD. Damon apparently didn`t get over his Augustine history in the blink of an eye either and it was five years for him. Enzo had what, 70 years of daily gruesome torture? He should be certifiably insane. Not to mention he would know how to hit Stefan the hardest. Though I guess he`d shy away from harming THAT person. Since it`s the only one he seems to love.

He always seemed to me like he was somewhat defensive in those scenes. And in denial as well. He believed in a happily ever after with Katherine because anything else was just unfeasible to him so banish the thought. But I would have found any sort of "confidence" he might have wanted to convey way more convincing if he`d been a lot less manic about it. Ironically, I think that is also why Katherine ultimately prefered Stefan. I mean, when it came to love, Kat loved Kat best or at least would always put herself first. But she liked the chase and the intrigue in her own way. Damon was cute and fun and she probably had a great time toying with brothers but he was too easy a mark. Stefan presented the far greater challenge. If Damon had been, as a human, more like he is now as a vampire and wouldn`t have given Katherine the time of day, he would have probably held her interest longer. In the end, despite her protestations on how it was only Stefan which was inconsistent with her later saying she loved both (though perhaps not to the same degree), she did ensure Damon`s turning. It was also planned, a daylight ring was waiting for him and she even told compelled Stefan as much. So why? If she didn`t give a crap, why bother to make him live for eternity and plan to carry this menage a trois along indefinitely or at least a lot longer? There must have been something about him that she wanted to keep around. I wouldn`t buy that it would be for Stefan`s sake because Kat was just conceited enough to think Stefan would come around quickly enough due to her amazing charms.

In a way it would, And it might even be on the money. Now I think Stefan with his switch off was pretty la-dee-da over things in Season 3. He was close to how Emotionless!Elena played. Meanwhile early-show-switched-off-Damon was a gruesome killer but he still worshipped at the altar of Katherine. If the writers knew back then that they would one day invent the concept of being "sired", that is what Damon would have been to Katherine. He acted no less crazy and obsessed than the chick who counted bricks for him in NOLA. However, as much hate as there was between the brothers, they could seemingly always overcome this when the other was in mortal peril. Non-humanity-Stefan crumbled like cheap suit once Mikael put his fist into Damon`s chest, grabbed his hard and told him to find a way against Klaus` compulsion or else. And later, he botched up the kill-Klaus plan (one of them anyway) because Katherine spilled to him that Klaus` failsafe was to kill Damon and Stefan had to turn it back on or else. Elena pleaded with him tearfully for episodes on end, Lexi came back from the spirit world briefly to torture his humanity back into him and nothing worked. Yet, the threat against Damon did. Just as Damon who had promised Stefan an eternity of misery (lets all pretend we never saw any of the actual flashbacks here and go with it) went stark-raving mad as the tomb vampires kidnapped his brother. I also think Stefan wouldn`t have anyone else lived after the stunt with Lexi. Not for willfully killing her. But Damon, he loved more so he spared him. What I think Stefan initially held in early Seasons was a certain sense of superiority over Damon. Which in turn Damon sensed and since he was already feeling second-best to Stefan whenever it counted - their father, Katherine, then Elena - and he tried to bluster his way through it with false bravado, it made him more defensive, more destructive and at times more dangerous. Also, sometimes Stefan`s superiority was really out-of-place. I remember that early shenanigans when Damon tried to open the tomb because he thought Kat was in it. And Stefan and Elena tried to keep him from doing so. One way they tried was by trying to fool Damon into thinking they`d work with him. So far, so good. Meanwhile we also got those flashbacks on what happened when the Salvatores were human, namely that Damon was angry because Stefan had blabbed the secret of Katherine`s vampirism to their father and Damon`s predictions about the outcome turned out to be right. Anyways, there was a scene where Stefan pontificated to Damon how he, Damon, was so untrustworthy as proven by their history. Now maybe in the grander scheme of things he might have had a point but in that case you can not show the audience flashbacks of STEFAN being the one who broke a trust and a promise. Or current Stefan being the one who had just lied, was lying right in this moment and planned to lie in the future. And his reasoning for it doesn`t really matter if he wants to throw stones just for the act of lying. Yet the show and Stefan played that entirely straight, as if he couldn`t even see his own hypocrisy there. It was scenes like that - and there were a few - that made the character problematic for me early on. One brotherly convo I really liked back in Season 1 was after we learned who had turned when, how and why, Stefan tried to apologize and Damon flat-out told him that his, Damon`s actions, were not Stefan`s fault. Making him complete the transition or not, that they were Damon`s to own and even feel guilty about if he so chose.

Yup, on top of the injury of taking over the storyline as Mr.Big Kahuna Chosen One yet again, kicking Dean to the curb and of course making it bigger and better with Sam, the insult of making him Saintly McSpecial who can control it where of course that loser of a brother couldn`t? Chuck ME into the sun before having to watch that, it would be preferable. Also way to make Sam into an even bigger Sue. However, this time I don`t believe the Mark will be transfered. From the moment Dean got it, I knew that once Tim Omundson was announced to do another guest stint, that would be the end of it. Now he has so it will. No idea how but we got the lame capturing of Demon!Dean with some measly holy water that looked like it took no effort at all and we got the even lamer cure. So if Cain waves his hand three times and the MOC is simply gone from Dean, this would probably something the show does. Once more I`m annoyed that they did so little with it. It was a supernatural storyline but for the most part they didn`t play it big and epic and Dean didn`t get multiple strings of episodes with flashy superpowers. It didn`t end with a big validation of his worth. He didn`t get to have a success in overcoming it himself. Noone told him he was strong not to have fallen to evil or pimped him to the high heavens. And he didn`t get a huge episode dedicated to him saving the world in "redemption" where everyone else looked on like slack-jawed yokels who had no point. And after it`s gone, the character will once again have nothing. It will be dropped like Purgatory was. Maybe angst, guilt and shame. Wow, how exciting and fresh. Maybe afterwards Sam gets another storyline of his own or it will be just about Crowley and his Mom.

I do and I wondered for a bit but somehow I got the impression her first marriage was one most common on those days, arranged and meh-ish (for her). Just a feeling I got from her, arguably, few words but I`d bet she missed her Stefan and her "brother pair" were Klaus and Elijah. of course she was clearly only into Elijah. I liked Katherine but I agree with the ruining part. She used her second chance to do nothing but stupidly and pathetically run after Stefan and endanger herself? I mean she wasn`t exactly subtle or cunning or anything actually Kat-like. Annoying story and just there for the same reason as Elena switching off her humanity or now losing her memories, to convolute a reason why Delena would be on a break and prolong some angst for them.

Actually, I agree. I meant more in terms of how both were the "it"-couple at first with a whirlwind romance and it became "epic" love pretty soon. Buffy and Angel had more of the star-crossed theme going on with the vampire/Slayer motif. Stefan and Elena had plenty of outside obstacles and of course Elena was at the center of the first few ongoing supernatural plots but in and of themselves, they weren`t exactly Romeo and Juliet. Maybe if her parents were still alive, with an active vampire hunting and/or Augustine legacy. Don`t get me wrong, I found it refreshing. Not every couple has to have that "we should be sworn enemies" thing. That would be boring. Maybe they`d be more akin to Max/Liz on Roswell with the alien boy and human girl thing where their problems came mostly through outside forces. But Stelena were never actually the "will they/won`t they" couple where they have them fight and drag it out them going together. That fits more with Delena but not fully either because it lacks certain writing tropes of that. Of course I know there were some but I guess it`s indicative of my investment in them as a couple that no scenes really stand out in memory. I just remember being either bored or annoyed. The writing was just overall better and the plots were exciting, made logical sense and moved at a brisk pace, sometimes too fast even so ironically, this show on the CW clearly geared to a certain target audience what with the vampire romance (with triangle) was mostly my plot-show. The romance was just kinda in there somewhere but I could mostly ignore it. In the midst of unraveling the secrets of the past with the Katherine flashbacks, the crypt mystery, all building up to meeting Kat in person, then the new threat that even scared Kat and so on and so forth. Even the numerous and murderous (decade) dances were just so much fun. It was like Thunderdome with fancy clothes: 200 party guests enter, 150 leave. And sure, I can roughly recall how Stelena went over the first two or so Seasons but not anymore than this short, ill-fated thing with Matt and Caroline or the more cutely played (at first) Caroline and Tyler. If there was a couple I had a little stars in my eyes for in those early days it would be Jeremy and Anna.

I like them as friends now but I don`t think he is her great romantic love anymore. After thinking they would never let the triangle go ever, I find myself pretty surprised that they apparently have. Maybe the actors have intervened somewhat because not one of them has ever shipped any version of Stelena or Delena themselves. Paul is pretty candid about wanting to move away from Stelena, just as Ian is with the Bamon love. Now, I don`t think they`d deviate from their pairing of choice but Season 5 still had Stelena-ish moments. The romantic feelings on either part didn`t appear to be gone. Did they really need the "visions of normalcy" episode to get it out of their system? Because after that, it was like someone had wiped their freaking hard-drives. All romantic love, even nostalgia for their relationship appeared to have gone to oblivion. The episode did say Markos creating the "lurve spell" was pretty much only to bring the Doppelgangers together aka help statistical improbabilities a bit on "chance" meetings (and even like that, some missed it like Tatia and whoever her "Stefan"-ganger was) but it didn`t make them mystically fall in love. And yet the second he was all "okay, that spell in its entirety served its purpose", they were platonic on the spot? That was some iffy writing. Early Season 5, they have this scene where Elena runs in and completely ignores Damon whom she supposedly loves to fuss all over Stefan. Fast forward to the Season 5 Finale and she might as well have stepped over Stefan`s dead body to fret over Damon. "No, Damon, don`t attempt this rescue mission." She had one "oh no" reaction to Stefan`s "death", then didn`t acknowledge him at all on the Other Side, appeared to not even be happy for a microsecond when Stefan crossed back over. Nope, she was obsessed with Damon`s welfare through the entire episode. Caroline who was anxiously waiting for Stefan in that same scene showed visible happiness at both Elena`s and especially Tyler`s crossing over before him. Elena acted in that episode like she had previously acted with Stefan so this was the first episode in the entire show where I felt the triangle was truly dead. Never had she acted so mindlessly focused on Damon. In effect, this episode made him the new "Stefan" for her. And since then her and Stefan have been completely friend-zoned. So I`d really disagree that Elena still loves Stefan best outside Jeremy or trusts him the most. I think Stefan has joined her club of "best friends". In any given scene that can refer to Bonnie, Caroline or even Matt. Now, it might be even Stefan. Damon, Jeremy and Alaric are the ones who were always grouped in other categories, which, naturally for Jeremy and Alaric. And her "friendship" with Damon was always kind of sexually charged. Maybe. And I certainly get how he was preocupied by grief earlier but Caroline was kind of right to point out that he either would have felt it or not. It`s not something he can force himself to feel, or talk or think himself into feeling. It would have bubbled to the surface on its own. When Damon (and Miss Cuddles) and Alaric were playfully ribbing him, it was a cute scene but in other scenes like that from the acting and previous scenes, I would have been like "of course you love so-and-so, doofus, everyone but you could see it". But that is because they subconsciously would have shown it anyway. With Stefan, I just never got that re: Caroline.