Shangrilala

I don't think that picture was the most flattering of Kylie at that age, for one. And I do think there's some validity in that article. I don't condone anybody getting plastic surgery that young, whether it's boobs, nose or lips. But there are several points missing in this whole argument - this takes any responsibility OFF of the Kardashians, Kris and Caitlyn, specifically, for how they raised Kylie, and Kris, even more so, in how she chose to shape the Kardashian brand. Kris and Caitlyn allowed Kylie to grow up surrounded by an emphasis not just on looks & money, but sex and power. Nowhere did we see the family place any value or emphasis on education, altruism, spirituality...anything. It was 100% about sex sells, stupid sexed up antics sell, and as we sell that, we get money and this family gains more power in the entertainment industry. I mean, didn't we see Kylie trying to pole dance on season 1? With everybody laughing at how funny it was? Didn't we see her upset that Kendall was getting so much attention for her modeling and everybody dismissed it ("you'll get your turn to be a supermodel too, honey!")? Didn't we see her really struggling with school, and Kris basically just short cut the issue (sure, you can home school, but i'll resist it enough to make an storyline for an episode first!)? There were plenty of signs along the way that Kylie was taking a wrong turn. And that family ignored it. And then the blame gets put on "society." And yes, nobody should have mocked that child - EVER. But Kris and Caitlyn, and even the older girls were no strangers to the industry. They knew the dark side. Yet they didn't do a damn thing to shield Kylie or perhaps guide her in a different direction until she was old enough and mature enough to make some of those choices. Society is going to change a lot more slowly than an individual, and yes, society should change (although I'm not sure it will), and that never should have happened to Kylie. But hell, Kylie couldnt' even count on her own family. So when people say "what happened to Kylie?" I don't think it's just about her looks. That's too short-sighted. It's about KYLIE. The image she puts forth, the fact that she's basically been exploited and taken advantage of by an industry her mother created. What happened to Kylie? How did we go from this cute kid, who seemingly was smart and had a good head on her shoulders to...this??? Maybe if the girls hadn't installed a stripper pole in their mothers bedroom and laughed at their over-sexed lives. Maybe if Kris hadn't tried to put a big red bow around Kylie and Kendall and try to package them as some modeling/superstar duo, when the reality was they were never going to fit the same mold. Maybe if they hadn't dismissed her when she was feeling like the black sheep, maybe if they had kept her in school, maybe if they had focused her talents elsewhere, maybe if they had let her be a kid, we wouldn't all be sitting here saying "what happened to Kylie?" Huh. That was longer than I intended.

Or her brilliant freshman repartee -- to quote John Sears. If anybody else knows who that is. There was talk of the time that if they discouraged Kylie, they would only push her closer to him. Which...I kind of get, but I've never really fully bought into that whole way of parenting. But I especially don't think it was the case with Kylie. I think Kris and Caitlyn just couldn't be bothered.

I'd love to have them all do a guest contestant spot on ANTM so that Tyra can talk about dead eyes, weak walks, etc. Does that show still exist?

I always got the impression that Scott was an involved dad, and a good partner when he was sober...but his issue is that he gets bored, then he parties, then he drinks. Granted I don't want to trivialize the issues, but that's the cycle that we've sometimes seen. There's a lot behind what happens when he "gets bored." I sometimes think that Kourtney would be perfectly happy living in some little cottage on the beach somewhere, just with her family. But then famewhoredom takes over.

Do you guys remember way back when, on the show, when Kim was so anxious about doing Playboy, nervous what people would think of her, stressed that it would make her look trashy, etc.? No worries, Kimmie. Along came Kylie.

See, I think the exact opposite. I don't think Kim is leaving Kanye. Everybody has been on break-up watch since they got together, but I don't see them going anywhere or splitting up. From the start they've led somewhat separate lives. Kim has even said as much in interviews, the nature of their jobs, how they function as a couple, etc. And I've seen nothing to indicate that they aren't committed to each other, I just see that their lifestyle isn't that of a traditional marriage. Keep in mind that's what Kris Humphries expected/wanted ("nobody will care about you in 15 years anyway" or some such thing) and Kimmy went running for the hills when she realized that there was actually an expectation/desire that she be a wife first, and her career comes after that. I don't think from the start they both understood what the lifestyle was going to be and were fine with it because it kept their careers as top priorities. And if we want to think that Kim only married Kanye for the legitimacy he gives her, even as a basket case, as of right now, the Kardashian table has a lot more guests at it with Kanye than without. Kanye isn't going anywhere. Maybe his career takes a bump. But Hollywood loves a comeback story, and Kanye will do just that. I have no doubt about that. Assuming he gets healthy, he'll find a way to use this. And he'll probably drone on and on about how it helped him grow as an artist how it changed his vision, etc. Maybe he'll start with smiling for the camera again? I'm not saying that I don't think Kanye's been a pain in the ass to live with. I do think Kim has probably tried to avoid some of it. But I don't see her walking because of it, now that she knows what is going on. If only for her image. I actually think that her walking away from him as a result of this is what would ruin her. I'm going to be very interested to see how the hip hop world embraces Kanye after this. What will his relationship with JayZ become, especially they now know what's been going on? And as for the report on the medication, I actually can believe it, depending on what the medication is. A friend of mine has fairly severe OCD and if she doesn't take her medication and consistently see her doctors, she'll develop problems pretty quickly again, and in her case it was pretty debilitating. She has no desire to revisit that, so she does what she needs to do. Hopefully Kanye won't mess around with that again.

Khloe looked her best when she was first married to Lamar. The picture of her above is terrible. And is it my computer? Is it the lighting in the top picture? Why is she green????

That doesn't necessary equate to healthy relationship either. She should start with kindness and decency, then go from there. On a side note, I think Kendall is gorgeous. And on the high fashion runway, she basically needs to just be a human hanger for the clothes. But I really wish when it came to something like the VS fashion show she could be...more fierce. More expressive. Last year at the show you could see that she was really excited to be there, it was evident in her face. This time around her face is static. She has more personality in the picture where she's waving to somebody (With gigi) and in the picture with the step & repeat.

Maybe he is partially sedated and that's why he need somebody to help him eat? I have a stupid question about mental illness. Let's say somebody is diagnosed as bipolar. Is there a "key event" that sets off the disorder? Are the signs always there but get more and more magnified as time goes on? For example, I think back to the extravagant wedding. Somebody upthread talked about his compulsive need to have the biggest, most secretive, most over the top lavish affair possible for their wedding - the proposal in the stadium which he had allegedly wanted to do for years, the wall of flowers, whisking their friends from paris to italy, etc. But was that Kanye being Kanye -- embracing the wealth and the grandiosity that can be afforded with his wealth? I never viewed any of that as being manic, etc. I viewed that as Kanye being Kanye. It's been the past couple of years that he's gone from over the top to ranting/raving lunatic. I refuse to believe that the Paris robbery and this recent event are staged/fake. To do so means that everybody involved - every police officer, every nurse, other patients, etc are all in on it and agreeable to it. And for what? To what end? To improve the reputations of two very unlikeable people in Hollywood? What's in it for them? A paycheck from Kanye and Kim to all of those people? I doubt they'd be so "generous." Not to mention, I refuse to believe that so many people would put their morals and integrity aside for these two buffoons.

So if Kanye is in the psych ward right now, or experiencing some kind of psychological break, isn't he restricted from having visitors for the first 24-48 hours or some such thing, while they get him stabalized? Or is that something I picked up from movies that has no basis in real experience? Agreed, except I don't believe for one minute that Kanye is involved with those kids for one minute while Kim is away. This. This x1000x1000. Wake up Kardashians, and take a good long look at your "family." You are a wreck - and this is not normal. Most families don't experience all of this. Rob is a complete mess. Lamar almost died. Khloe sacrificed her brother's emotional and mental well-being for the sake of a drug addict. Scott has been in rehab more times that we can count. Kylie is a train-wreck - there's no way that girl is a mentally sound 20 year old. Kim was held at gunpoint. Kanye just had a mental breakdown. Enough is enough.

Not surprised at all. And oddly, kind of happy to hear it. I know how toxic those two are together, but somehow I'm always rooting for them.

Especially Kylie. And look how that's turning out.

I hope now more than ever, Rob gets the help and support he needs. Dream deserves a father who can be a father. The baby glow will wear off in a few weeks, and then the reality parenthood will set in, and while it is an amazing experience, it is also relentless and you don't understand that until you are in the thick of it. So... He needs to either get some therapy and deal with the issues, or if that's not necessary, then he needs stop fucking around and get his shit together.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I think something really effed up, sexually, happened in that house, probably involving drugs. I don't think it was the drug use alone (like Rob was never around the drug scene) -- I think something has happened or was happening that he either witnessed on a regular basis, or that he was involved in, that made Rob feel deeply ashamed and guilty about. As much as I actually can't stand Rob, I do think that as far as the Kardashians go, he's probably the most sensitive, feels things much more deeply, and as a result, processes things more personally than the others.

Wait - they are back together? How did I miss that?

I mean...none of us are really surprised by that are we?

I actually think she's worse. I'll take Kim over Kylie (or Khloe, for that matter), any day of the week. When this show first started, there was some fun in it. Sure kim was there because of a sex tape, but there were scenarios of such idiocy (why are you trying to ruin my Bentley moment! - Followed by Kourtney laughing at Kim and her ugly cry face) that you couldn't help but laugh at the stupidity of it all. Were they offensive back then? Absolutely. But Kyle and Khloe, especially, have taken it to such a different level, it's disturbing. There are no words to capture how much I loathe Kylie and Khloe. And Rob, for that matter.

I have no idea who any of these people are, however when all of this is said and done, I have a feeling that Chyna and Tyga are going to be laughing all the way to the bank.

Or they saw that ring and said - "all done here" and took off. Here's the piece of the puzzle I'm missing. How did they know Kim would be alone? Were they planning on overpowering any bodyguard/security staff in the apt with her?

I think it's probably the two. She's the victim of an armed robbery, which is considered a violent crime and a traumatic event. She's at risk of developing PTSD and could very easily be suffering from flashbacks, high anxiety, and depression. And, on top of that, her flaunting her wealth on social media is what made her the target. So..I don't think it's one or the other but both. I noticed that about Kourtney as well, but holy crap, she looks about 1500x more awesome than Kim ever did. From the "high fashion" standpoint, Kourtney looks her best when she throws on something edgy but keeps the rest of her look minimal. In other words - no slicked down middle part and heavy dark lipstick, thank you very much. When they said that Kim wants to stay out of the public eye, i took that to mean that she wants to lead a normal life, not that she wants to be a hermit. What she doesn't realize is that it's not possible for her (or at least not very easily) because SHE turned getting froyo into her business by calling the paps, taking selfies of eating ice cream while she's hanging out of her shirt, and getting decked out to display everything she has for the world to see. She can't just tone down with a sweatshirt and flip flops and have them leave her alone. So she either needs to cancel the show, or her involvement in it, at the very least, shut down the social media accounts, and do her one last public interview (with somebody credible), and turn her attention to her family and businesses only, or she needs to become a hermit. This family should understand that there's no inbetween for them.

I think most psychiatrists would pretty much disagree with you there. There have been more than enough studies to show that victims of armed robbery suffer with emotional trauma, and PTSD can even last for years after. Trauma does not just cause physical injuries. Let's be real. If we were talking about a more likeable individual, this would be a very different conversation. Kim will be fine -- eventually. There is enough known about human resilience to know that what doesn't kill you, doesn't kill you. It doesn't make you stronger, it doesn't make you weaker, you just sort of go back to the same emotional point you were at before any exposure to trauma. Maybe there's a need for psychological treatment somewhere along the way, but you can go back to living an emotionally and mentally healthy life. But that doesn't necessarily happen in 22 days. And Kanye will be fine too - not that we're all that concerned about him. But he probably felt 1) helpless 2) partially to blame 3) concerned about his family's safety and 4) completely freaked out. The issue is with Kanye is that he takes whatever thought/feeling he has and rants about it, illogically, to whoever is around him. Eh, that's kind of my point...he should have known when they didn't show up for his wedding, when they've clearly made no effort to spend time together, that they aren't his friends, and maybe, as somebody stated, that friendship was more of mutual convenience than anything much deeper. I'm not sure that Kanye possesses the awareness to understand that they didn't think he was worth sticking around for after all of his antics, and that those events where they have spent time together were somewhat meaningless to the Carters and only served as tabloid gossip. But quite honestly, assuming they were at one point, quite close, then I'd say it takes two to tango when a friendship falls apart. Few things in life are ever one-sided, and most friendships are too complex to be that black and white. It's easy to point the finger 100% at Kanye because he's Kanye. In my eyes, he's become more unlikeable than his wife. But I do think that JayZ could have done more than a phone call and it would have gone a long way. But I might not have said that until recently - My mother died 6 months ago. A friend who I'd had a falling out with 6 years ago came to the wake to pay her respects. Are we besties now, running out for wine together and gossiping the day away over every little topic of conversation? No, and neither of us have any desire to resume any kind of relationship. But it was respectful of her, and her presence was comforting. Nothing more, nothing less. And why exactly am I supposed to care about that? That's the shit that makes me hate Kanye West.

Yup. And in my experience, those are people you shouldn't waste too much time on, and I think that's been Kanye's mistake. First he had Jay-Z telling him not to marry her. Then they didn't go to the wedding. Then he called to see how they are doing, but that's it. Their kids haven't played together. It seems to me, that from Kanye's perspective, these big moments in his life are happening - marriage, fatherhood, and even trauma - and his best friends aren't there to support him other than well wishes on social media or over the phone or wrapped up in a box with a pretty bow. I'd be pissed too. Not to mention, when something like this happens to your spouse, it traumatizes you as well. I'm not one of those people who thinks this was staged, or a hoax, or that Kim deserved it, or that she's so unlikeable that you can't sympathize with what happened to her. And what people don't realize is that what happened to Kim happened, indirectly, to Kanye too. The robbers targeted her because they knew more about him. Kim is his wife and mother of his children. Maybe Kanye needed the person who he thought was his best friend to do more than ask "how are you." Maybe he actually needed somebody to say "I'm going to come over, we're going to have a drink and I'm here to support you." I think Kanye probably knows that JayZ and Beyonce don't care for Kim. The whole world knows that. But when shit gets real, you kind of expect people to put the immaturity of "I don't like her" aside and be there for you, especially when you were as close as they were. And maybe he expected that to be JayZ. Just because he's Kanye West, certifiable jackass, doesn't mean that he doesn't have the basic human emotional need of compassion. If I were Kanye I wouldn't waste my time on JayZ and QueenB. Truly. And I don't blame him for being pissed off. I don't think a public rant is the way to address it, but that's a whole other discussion. But I DO think that JayZ and Beyonce are being sucky people in this situation.

A Vanity Fair Article where the head of their police says that there is nothing to indicate this is any kind of hoax. On the contrary it talks about how armed robbery is on the rise in Paris, why it's on the rise, how the Paris police force is stretched thin following the terrorist attacks and other recent events, how social media gave the attackers everything they needed to know, the benefit of using bicycles, and...amusingly, how the guy had no clue who Kim Kardashian was, nor did the officer who called it in. http://www.vanityfair.com/style/2016/10/solving-kim-kardashian-west-paris-robbery

The Marc Jacobs photo is cracking me up. Her entire expression says "what the fuck is this shit?"

Denying plastic surgery (hello half of hollywood) and staging a fake robbery at gunpoint are in two completely different stratospheres.