Shangrilala

I have about 7 or 8 college years episodes on my dvr (season 5, specifically) that I recorded when I realized that 90210's time on soapnet was coming to an end. I was watching the Texas Dip episode, and part of the following ep, and I realized, the animosity towards Dylan in the beginning of Season 5 is really quite atrocious and I'm not sure I get where it stems from. I can understand Jim and Cindy's anger - Dylan's irresponsibility and lack of understanding of business really put Jim in a bind and risked his professional reputation. I suppose that animosity could extend down to Brandon, but since the Jim and Dylan feuds in the past never really affected the friendship, and since Brandon never makes mention of it in Season 5, I'm not sure that's a cause of Brandon's anger now. The timeline as I saw it (I was folding laundry as I watched so I wasn't paying closest attention): 1) Brandon goes to Dylan's house to tell him about Kelly. He sees Dylan drinking. He chooses not to, but realized that Dylan has fallen off the wagon, despite Dylan saying that he's fine (this isn't retcon season 10 where Dylan "can handle it.") 2) Nat reveals to Dylan and Brandon and Kelly are together. 3) Dylan shows up and interrupts Donna's Texas Dip and awesome dance with DeShaun. He causes a big scene. 4) Kelly goes to Dylan's to "apologize" where Dylan lets her have it, and calls her out on her "3am apology." 5) Brandon goes to Dylans. Dylan lets him have it. Brandon apologizes for not telling Dylan when he first saw him, because he was drinking. Dylan pushes, and I think this is the scene where he talks about how Brenda couldn't "you people" and went halfway around the world to get away from them (more on that later). Brandon warns him not to push, and Dylan basically says get lost. Brandon leaves. 6) Registration at CU. Kelly and Brandon arrive, and Brandon makes some joke about how "with Dylan falling off the wagon, per usual, I feel disgustingly wholesome" and Kelly says "you don't know how attractive that is." Also to note, throughout the episodes, any time Val asks about Dylan, they basically blast him, paint him as bad news, and warn her to stay away. A couple of episodes in and Brandon makes the point about how it's "not the first time he's shared a bathroom with a girl who thought she could heal his wounded psyche" and it takes until Halloween for him to FINALLY respond to the fact that his friend is spiralling. And that's after he yells at Val for going to see him. It takes Val pointing out his hypocrisy in forgiving her, over and over again, and hating Dylan and her comment of "What did Dylan do that's so terrible?!?" Excellent question, Val. What did he do? Now if the outline below were in a vaccuum, then okay, I could understand the anger. Dylan attacked and said some pretty wretched things. But you're talking about relationships that were really well established at that point, that had been challenged by both sides, and that had even survived the betrayal of his own sister. So where DID the animosity come from? I can understand if there had been a scene where Brandon expresses that he's frustrated at this point - between the drinking, the betrayal towards his father, the betrayal to his own sister, and the negative drama that just seemed to surround Dylan, the friendship had just gotten too hard. But we never really saw that. We just saw Brandon, seemingly really angry, that Dylan had started drinking again, with virtually no sympathy or concern for weeks. We saw Kelly, judgemental and angry ("it's nice to see you among the living"). Steve made some wisecrack about Dylan falling off the wagon at the benefit, long before he discovered anything about Val and Dylan. So what DID Dylan do that was so terrible? And speaking of terrible Dylan, I kind of love it when he rails into Brandon about Brenda. Because he was absolutely right. Brenda was miserable by the time she left. Her friends and family had betrayed her plenty of times and basically painted her as a person she never was, so she said "fuck you" and left and never came back. Granted, the show would never acknowledge that, it had to be said by drunk, angry, lashing out Dylan who doesn't mean the things he says and does when he's under the influence, but I kind of love that moment of clarity and insight on the part of Dylan McKay.

Actually, it wasn't. I religously taped every episode of 90210 during it's original run. At least the high school years and first year of college. Once I got to college myself that habit ended. Anyway, I taped every episode. I watched them over and over again because I was obsessed with the show as a teenager. And my friends and I dissected the show, but from a 15 year old perspective as opposed to the perspective of an adult. It's actually why now I don't enjoy seasons 1-3 so much. I've seen them each more than a million times.

This has always driven me nuts. I kept waiting for one of her friends to say: Carrie, it's not her fault that Big dumped you and left New York. I kept waiting for her friends to say: Carrie, you slept with her husband as a willing participant. Multiple times. There is nothing that will ever make that forgiveable in her eyes. Your reasons for doing so are completely irrelevant to her because you slept with her husband. You did it, you are responsible for your actions, accept that somebody hates you because YOU SLEPT WITH HER HUSBAND. I'm actually surprised that they didn't have Miranda do that. Or did they? I remember her talking with her friends about it, but I can't remember anybody laying into her directly, except for Natasha at lunch. Charlotte got mad at her for being the "other woman," but didn't say it bluntly like that. And Samantha didn't judge. But one of her friends needed to give her the smackdown. I actually hated the way the show treated Carrie's infidelity. In the series, they tried to make Carrie the sympathetic character and Natasha the bad guy, when in reality I never found Carrie to be more unlikeable than during her affair with Big. From what I could tell Natasha did nothing wrong other than being a little bland, liking beige furniture and not being the right match for Big. And even putting Big and Carrie together, at the end of the series, doesn't make the affair more understandable or sympathetic. And then in the movie, after she kisses Aiden, she gets a black diamond ring? How does that work, exactly? I don't hate the character of Carrie like some do. But this aspect of the character really bothered me. Actually, I think he would have.

Every time I write a comment to this thread I get confused all over again, so I'm going to just throw down my questions even though there are plenty of other plot points that make them incomplete/incoherent. Mona: Was she Ali's A? Or did she adopt the A persona after helping Ali? Or was she on the side of the A-team all along, in which case, why did she help Ali escape if the ultimate plan was to kill her? (makes no sense, unless A and the murderer are two different people). Noel Kahn: Somebody remind me from season 1. Why did he write "I see you -A" on the car? Wasn't he a part of the A-Team? Did that ever get answered? How did he flip to Ali's side? Or is Ali the twin theory and they writers are just bullshitting the viewers (which to be honest, is the only theory I can come up with that makes sense - they are sticking to the books) How many people knew Ali was alive? Cece, Shauna, Mona, there's speculation about Maya, Noel, and maybe Ian? (I found his "What are you doing here" statement a little too blase, as opposed to "holy crap, aren't you dead?") Did Jenna know she was still alive? The Hastings, if they knew that it wasn't Ali in that grave? And finally - why, exactly, am I supposed to trust anything that Ali says?

Kind of OT, but I think I saw Darla (Brenda's MN roommate) on season 6 Mad Men, in the 2nd episode. I actually had a hard time determining if it was really her from her looks, but it was her voice that made me stop and say "wait, who is that" because actress had a somewhat unique sound. If there are any Mad Men fan out there, it's season 6, episode 2, I think? During the dinner party with Don, Megan, the neighbors, and then another couple. Darla is the blonde who keeps throwing herself at Don during the conversation. I liked season 4. I liked the sorority and fraternity story line, I liked the natural tension that existed as they discovered that their interests varied more greatly than they realized in college, and their subsequent struggles to stay together. I liked the campus setting and seeing them in class and life in the beach apartment. I liked the seemingly natural draw of Kelly and Brandon, that actually made more sense than Kelly and Dylan. And I even really like Stuart Carson. I know that's unpopular, but to quote high-school Brenda, it was nice to see her with somebody who wasn't brooding all the time. I could have done without Lucinda story-arc and the return of Emily Valentine, who I don't buy for one moment Brandon would have hunted down in San Francisco as the great love of his life, because let's all try to remember that the bitch be crazy....but I'm digressing. I wish they had handled the character of Brenda better. I think that what Brenda went through as a college freshman is not atypical, but her desire to find herself, not be who everybody thought she should be, and her general unhappiness and sense of misdirection was no reason for her friends and family to treat her so poorly. Brenda could have still gone off to London without having everybody pissed off at her for some reason or another all season long. But like others have said, the biggest flaw of season 4, was the character of Andrea Zuckerman. I think Gabrielle Carteris did wonders with some of that material, her talking to her baby when she's almost certain she's going to have an abortion, is just a fantastic scene. But the bottom line is that I don't believe that Andrea Zuckerman wouldn't have at least given Yale a chance. They address it in season 5, where she says that she just started backing away from things, but season 3 ended with Andrea psyched about Yale. We still had our go-getter, overacheiver, all the way through to graduation. What happened to her that summer that changed the core of that personality to profoundly? Because aside from her being intimidated by the wealth at the Yale tea for admitted students, she seemed pretty excited and ready to take Yale by storm. The rest of college? I don't like as a whole. I like certain storylines. Donna's stalker. Anything Val. Susan & Brandon. But overall, as a college student myself at the time, the show was utterly unrelateable and too heavy. Unlike most people, I really like the post-College years.

Oh, me too. Jonesy may actually be my favorite secondary character of the entire series, and I wish they had him in some kind of recurring role, if only for a brief time. I would have much preferred to watch him and Val conquer crime together than watch business-suit Kelly saving the world at the Wyatt Clinic. The Mexico episode is so unrealistic but it just works so well because of him. The only non-main character who I love just as much is Felice. I don't know why, but I've always been absolutely fascinated by the character of Felice Martin. Maybe because as I get older and have become a mother myself I find legitimate truth in some of what she says (although not all) as opposed to back in the day when I thought she was a bitchy society mom who just "didn't get it" and was out of touch with what really mattered.

Maybe the Hub? I know that's meant to be a childrens network, but don't they also put some teen/adult programming on in the evenings? I know they used to have The Wonder Years.

When did the show JTS? I don't think there's one specific moment, although if I had to choose it would be with the opening of the Peach Pit After Dark in season 5. The whole concept, from Steve the "rave/party planner" to Val the business owner, to Donna the Ray groupie, to Claire and David the music managers, was absolutely stupid. I've never understood the need to do that because to be honest, there is plenty of natural drama, tension, and opportunity that exists in college life that they could have used without having the PPAD as a background. And I really think the opening of this club changed the tone of the show from a group of high school/college friends navigating the perils of high school together and starting college together to this weird, unrealistic view of what life as a 19 year old in college is like. The characters becamse too old and unrelateable at that point. And I say that as somebody who was 1 year younger than the gang so I was their exact target demographic. Not to mention, it's LA. You mean to tell me that the PPAD had people banging down the doors waving promotional flyers every night like that? Not likely. But I think there were glimpses along the way of what was to come. Donna Martin Graduates will go down in TV history as an iconic moment in pop culture. Whether you watched the show or not, anybody who grew up in the 90s will know that reference. But it's that episode where we got our first FULL dose of sanctimonious Brandon who was revered by all, including his own parents, even though he was acting like a jacka$$. You have your first dose of sweet/innocent Donna, I think. And that stays with her for the rest of the series. But I don't think that's the point that the show JTS. But rather a preview of some character development that will stay with us throughout the series. I don't know that this group was meant to be the center of the universe at WBH, but rather the show was just about their universe. There were plenty of episodes that indicted the presence of other cliques. In the high school date rape episodes (A Good LIstener?) Brenda talks about thinking about trying out for cheer but how all the girls are in this "obnoxious little clique." When Cousin-Bobby-Future-Drug-Dealer comes to town, they take him to a party of some guy who is clearly meant to be right in the middle of the in-crowd. We know that the jocks exist, their presence was known in plenty of episodes. And in the senior poll episode, Brenda talks about how everybody who won had been around since kindergarten, or some such thing. I agree that the whole senior breakfast thing was kind of silly that we didn't see anything else, but that's one episode meant to induce nostalgia about the show and our favorite chacters. Or induce vomit upon hearing how Brandon wants a girl who's creamy. Your pick.

Former TWoP user here. Hello everybody!