Carrie Ann

Just goin' through this thread liking every Captain Smoak comment here. This is now 3 spoilers I'm excited about. But I'm like SUPER excited about Donna Smoak, so it counts for more.

I actually wish that writers and EPs would straight up just not answer questions or respond to fan tweets/posts unless it's a case of a misunderstanding, some factual question, etc. Otherwise, any response just ends up fueling fire in some direction, and honestly most of these people are not diplomatic. I get it because when I see the kinds of things people tweet at them, and...yikes. It'd be hard to ignore the vitriol. But they should. Have assistants/PR people follow the social media stuff and give reports on the responses to things; prompt the EPs when something is really bubbling up that needs to be addressed, etc. But most critical/fan complaints can be addressed via traditional interviews, panel discussions, etc., where you have a little more time to think about your response, more words to use to make yourself clear. Obviously, a lot of times, they still screw up in those situations too, but then that's on them for not thinking things through beforehand. And the thing is, I really love social media for all sorts of reasons. I follow select people from my shows, but I often end up unfollowing people who respond to fans/trolls because those responses are so tricky (the other reason is that a lot of the celebs are deadly dull and have terrible spelling/grammar). For TO, I only follow Daniel Gillies at this point. On TVD, it's just Paul Wesley.

Yeah, I don't know how it's actually going to feel on the show, but what's bothering me about the talk about 3B is that anytime MG or others offer anything up about Felicity/Diggle, it's always actually about someone else. There's always a "but" involved. So someone asks if F/D will have scenes together, and Marc says "yes" but ALSO DID YOU KNOW that Dig has an epic scene with Laurel??? Which leads me to feel like the F/D scenes will be disappointing, because if they were good, I'd think Marc would be excited about them and make sure people knew they were coming. I have no doubt we will see a lot of both F & D in these episodes, but I'm not at all sure I'll be happy with the substance of those scenes. It feels like it could be quantity over quality. Lots of Felicity because she's needed in scenes with Ray (and the team, of course because no one else can do her job). We might get a lot of Diggle because he's wearing the hood and leading the team (this is one of two things I'm interested in about 310-312; the other is Thea/Felicity), and because someone has to try to make Laurel likable. Instead, we're spending this time building up anywhere from two to four other heroes, because that's what matters now, and that's the function Felicity and Diggle serve on the show apparently. Oh man, I am cranky today and need to chill. The good news is that my expectations are in the basement for 310-312, so anything good that happens at all will feel extra great and maybe I'll even end up liking those episodes in a roundabout way.

Ha, we're in agreement on all of this, and I'm at a loss because the Delena thing just killed my interest all over again. It's funny--I was talking to my Delena-fan BFF this weekend about TVD (I got her into it right after I got into it, in S3 and we used to be obsessed together), and we hadn't talked about the show since sometime last season. So I was like, "Man, how do you still like Damon and Elena together?" And she said, "Oh God, I don't! I hate them together. I want him with Bonnie now." She said that they ruined Elena and they were terrible as soon as they got together, and that she likes Damon better away from her. So that was interesting. Anyway, it's also funny, because I think the general sentiment is that this season has been better than last (better than S4 too, IMO), but now it looks like we're heading back down to that S4/S5 level. Right back to the same dynamics, the same stories, the same drama. And The AV Club just added TVD back to its roster of recaps for 6B (after dropping it before the season), right when it's about to turn to crap again. Oh well. You know, I did almost feel bad for JP after reading that comment about how she and KW had their perfect ending all planned out, and now they have to "evolve" it because the show is never going off the air. I'm sure it is tough to keep spinning out story when you have no clue where it all ends. But that's why I'd think it would be way more fun and interesting for the writers (and the cast, and the viewers) to write different pairings/groupings, and focus on characters who've been neglected over the years. It's a new challenge and a new dynamic to play around with. But instead, JP & CD just want to stick to their own personal fantasies, so this is what we've got.

Sweet, no Lazarus Pit for Oliver. Doesn't mean another character won't come back that way, and I thought SA's comments about Ep 14 made it feel even more likely that that's going to happen, though probably not to the character I'd prefer.

From the Spoiler spec thread (spoilers removed): blixie, you know I dropped Sleepy Hollow too, for the same reasons. And I see similarities between what happened over there and what's happening on Arrow. I think the reasons are very different, but the problem is the same at its root: the EPs need to identify the things that work on their shows and then make sure not to compromise those things while working to build other assets, or while building toward some amazing payoff. And this season, neither show has succeeded in that. My number one complaint about 3A is the sacrifice of Original Team Arrow and the way that has impacted the feeling of the whole show. And part of it is for this unconvincing and muddled "Identity" conflict they're putting Oliver through. But the biggest reason for it is that they're trying to "activate" these other characters--Roy, Ray, Laurel. They think they're leveraging their assets--using their beloved characters to develop their weaker characters--but they're actually compromising them instead. They're sacrificing what works best in favor of things that don't work at all, and all we're left with is a show that is 85% composed of things I don't care about or actively dislike. You know, go ahead and introduce conflict between O/F, but then step up the F/D and O/D interactions to make up for it. Let the three of them share scenes alone together, even if it's just to roll their eyes at each other, I don't care. But build on this thing you've created. A season and a half isn't enough history to just bank on; you can't just ignore or even damage those characters/relationships for nine episodes and trust the S1&2 baseline to buoy the show. You can do that for a few episodes, but you need to come back to what works to make sure viewers know that you still care about those things and that you recognize where the real heart of the show lies. I'm not dropping Arrow yet, but how 3B plays out, and how the EPs respond to viewer and critical concerns in the summer hiatus will really impact whether I watch S4. Because right now all I'm hearing is that Everything is Awesome and Don't You Love All These Other Characters, and NOPE, so if their priority now is to "build this world" and not to deepen the parts of it I actually care about, then I probably won't be here for that. (And back to SH for a minute--it would be great if Mo Ryan did an interview with MG like she did with Goffman, because she's been such a huge supporter of Arrow, but she shares all of my issues with this season and I'd love it if she put MG's feet to the fire in the same way.)

blixie, you mentioned dropping Sleepy Hollow in your comment, and I'm going to respond in the Bitterness thread.

Yeah, but they could have tailored Sara's jacket--starting with a new replica with a fit that suited KC better. It would have worked with the whole legacy/inheritance theme they are so obsessed with, and it would have mirrored Oliver's attachment to the hood. It's weird that they ditched it, but maybe they'll address it in-show.

I actually think we might have gotten our major character deaths out of the way in 3A, and if we have another in 3B, it might be a villain this time.

That's my point--it's hindsight. Why? Why wouldn't you immediately assume you would bring your female cast members? Why wouldn't you try to bring as many of your series regulars as possible? Instead, they're trying to put this exciting panel together, and they just don't consider their female cast members until after the fact. Why? Because it's not their default way of thinking, that women are interesting on their own, even if they're not in a costume. Even in hindsight, as others have pointed out, he didn't even go with the obvious person--Nyssa. Because he still hasn't given it enough thought.

That answer makes no sense. Diggle was there, rendering that reasoning invalid. And you would have brought Cupid or Huntress before Felicity, Caitlin, Iris, or Thea? That's...I just...why... I'm sorry, I'm going to keep going on this: "It was a mistake to not have more women there, particularly given how much interest there is in characters like Felicity and Caitlin." How is it still a surprise that female characters are popular? How is it still a surprise that when you have an underrepresented population, the few characters who represent those populations will receive above-average interest? Why don't you want to show off your female characters and actors? Your very few actors of color? Okay, I have to step away from the computer before I get even crabbier about this.

I truly don't think there's a chance it would happen unless EBR left the show of her own volition. The show would never get rid of her, but if she wanted to leave for some reason, they'd have to fill in that empty love story space, I guess. Otherwise, no. They've stopped giving any romantic beats to Laurel and Oliver, and they know no one feels chemistry there or believes in that relationship (except KC apparently). I worry they will screw Olicity up in about a million other ways, but I haven't been concerned about Lauriver since SDCC.

First, the show is coming back for Season 7 which is not a surprise but I wish it were ending this season instead. Second, terrible news for non-Delena fans. There was some talk that they will be working toward "stasis," which I think means they want them to be together and then just be stable. I assume that's what it means. There's nothing that could sound less interesting to me than Delena's "honeymoon phase," so maybe I'm back out of this show. Well, we had a good 6A, I will give them that.

Me too. Yay for TO! Boo for TVD. ;)

I think it means separately--not as much teen focus (more mature), and I honestly don't know or care WTF "more male" means because EVERY OTHER NETWORK caters to men. Women had like WE, Oxygen, Lifetime, and unofficially The CW. I mean, I want all my shows to stay on the air, and more viewers = better, but I can barely handle the gender problems on the Flarrow programs as is, and those are hardly the only shows on the network with those issues. If The CW is going to focus more on dudes, can we at least get more women in the writers' rooms so that they can speak up for the female characters?

I think the make-up of the panel was a mistake, but the size apparently wasn't. I read several tweets from critics who said that usually the large panel doesn't work, but this one was really fun and entertaining. And that's their only goal, really, is to make the critics in the room engaged and intrigued. As fans, we'd rather get the in-depth character questions, but I think a lot of TCA attendees don't cover these shows at that level, so that's not always what the panels are going for. Just my take.

Well, there was also some vague information about how The CW is looking at doing some summer series, and shorter seasons for some series, etc. I actually think that's really brilliant, and could allow for more of these shows to survive. I think The 100 probably benefits from not being 23 episodes a year, for example.

I liked Oliver and Sara too--as a dedicated Olicity person, I still found them intriguing as a pairing. And I remember thinking, wow, if this was Dinah/Laurel--if CL had played that character, if she had gone down on that ship, been taken by the LOA, had a relationship with Nyssa, and came back to town with all that baggage, with a different moral position to Oliver's...that would be a much more compelling GA/BC pairing to me. One that would be much harder to simply write off in the face of Olicity. But anyway. I found their actual relationship, as written, to be a little rushed and thus lacking in some ways, but CL and SA worked their tails off to sell it. And I felt/feel a deep bond between them. Real understanding of each other and what they went through and how it changed them. I wish we could have seen more of their friendship.

Downton Abbey is my pick. As you all have mentioned on the main podcast, the show kind of started out as a smaller-scale, Upstairs/Downstairs drama. Aside from two really soapy things--the actual Soap-Bar Miscarriage, and the Death By Sex--I felt like most of the drama of the first season was rooted in manners, class friction, familial expectations, etc. Things like Matthew unintentionally disrespecting Molesly when he insisted on dressing himself, and then correcting that later, even though he was still uncomfortable about it--I found that more interesting and appealing than the over-the-top, repetitive soap the show quickly became. If that was as long as Fellowes could restrain his worst impulses, then I wish it had just been one and done.

I don't have any moral qualms with her dating Ray. I have character-based qualms, I guess. Or logic-based qualms. Or good-storytelling-based qualms. Here's the way I see it: yes, she's never told Oliver how she feels. She's never told anyone, so as the audience, we're just guessing. But assuming her response to Oliver's death actually is "epic," I would hope we'd get a little more concrete insight into her real feelings for him. And unless she directs all of her grief into rage, including rage at Oliver for dying, then I won't find it at all believable that she would get into any kind of relationship with anyone else. Not for a long time; more time than the show is going to give in the hiatus and BC arc. So I expect to find this entire storyline really hard to swallow. But at the same time, if she doesn't get with Ray until after Oliver gets back, then it's equally irritating to me. Why would she mourn Oliver, and then when he miraculously comes back to life, reject him and run to someone else? I'm not even saying she needs to just immediately be with him, but dating Ray when her feelings for him are obviously going to be a pale shadow of what she feels for Oliver is not believable once Oliver is back, to me. It reminds me of how ridiculous it was for Laurel's primary emotion to be anger when Sara came back to life. That's not how humans behave. And if it's Oliver STILL pushing her away, then as I've said before, what was the point of any of this? We just pick up the Oliver/Felicity storyline exactly where it left off in 307, with no growth, no change, as a result of his death? It just feels like the writers want to put Felicity in this other relationship because they wanna so that Oliver can be forced to see what he's giving up, and they're going to force it to happen no matter what. I'm just...there are some roads they could travel here that would actually be ship-killers for me, and that's a bummer. I would never have believed it, pre-S3.

Unless the "new side" of Ray has something to do with him getting a little power-hungry or over-confident or something like that, I have no interest, and I don't see how anything "heroic" about him could be new to Felicity. Ugh, I am dreading the rest of this season, until the last few episodes when they try to pull it all together in what will assuredly be an over-stuffed, poorly-paced mess. I don't know when I got so pessimistic about this show, but it sucks.

Not just you, and I've brought this up many times here, but I keep looking for an out--some way to make it so that they don't get together right before the hiatus, or that there's no time jump over the hiatus or something. Because goddammit I will be so pissed if we miss the first five months of their relationship.

People aren't upset that the showrunner/writers aren't writing Bellarke. (Well, I'm sure some are, but that's not specifically the problem with Ginsburg's comments.) People are upset that the writers tease, berate, and mock fans, period. Enough that this one joked about it on a podcast, and then tried unconvincingly to walk it back. Shipping aside: it is unprofessional, petty, and just kind of mean to do that to fans--of any stripe. That's why I said I wish they hadn't addressed the "apology" or response in such a way that it seemed as though it was only Bellarke fans who were annoyed, or that the primary problem was that AG's comments made it seem like the writers won't go that direction out of spite. I'm sure those fans were annoyed, and I'm sure they're very, very vocal, like every other shipping fandom in the universe. But I was upset as a fan of the show who has witnessed JR or other writers respond nastily to fans/critics in general. It's a turn-off. I don't want the writers to "pander" to any subset of fans. I want them to write their story as they envision it, and as a fan of that world and these characters, I hope that story is the best it can be. But along the way, it would behoove the writers/producers/cast/crew to be professional and mature with their tiny fanbase. They'll be lucky if they get more than this one season, and if they do, it will be because of that devoted fanbase. It won't be because of their stellar PR game, obviously.

I agree with others here that that promo was lackluster because there's too much they're trying to keep under wraps for now. Felicity's inhale looked more like "Here we go again" exasperation than any sort of emotional upheaval, but like everything else in the promo, it goes by too fast to really judge anything. I just kind of wish they'd gone with something sort of moody--just shots of people's faces and solemn music. But maybe they are trying to steer away from the feeling that 3B is going to be as dour and grim as 3A. Ha. Ugh. Try not killing off two major characters every few weeks, see if that helps.

Earlier today, The 100 Writers official Tumblr account posted this response to the Ginsburg comments, and then Ginsburg himself posted one too. I appreciate the sentiments, and some of the clarification, but I reject the idea that you can just say, "No, JR doesn't mock fans" and have it magically be true. He does, and he does seem to at least feel like it's worth his time to argue with fans. And Aaron didn't pull that idea that JR would actively avoid writing Bellarke because the fans want it out of his ass. I guarantee it's come up in those terms in the writers' room or over drinks or something to that effect. At any rate--Bellarke is so low on my list of concerns about this show and the writers who staff it (I don't actually ship them yet, personally), that I wish the focus of the apology wasn't toward shippers. I don't care whether they ever write that pairing. If the writers were teasing fans of a pairing I hate, I would be equally disgusted. I wish whoever mans this Tumblr account would respond to some of the other fan/critic complaints/concerns that have arisen this fall--like its racial problems, for one.