tangerine95

Oh yeah Dragon for Digg has been even worse,barely anything there at all.And BS vs BC was in one episode and a few fights and snarky comments.I guess with the Vigilante thing they're giving it some actual reason for a rivalry.But that's half a season in already.So far the villain team has kinda been isolated with each other mostly and targeting random people and occasionally meeting the heroes in a fight.And that's such a superficial way to write this story imo,which is why I find it so boring.I do hope they step it up in the later half but I'm not that convinced it will happen seeing how the one interesting villain will be gone and I find the rest of them so lame.

Cayden was such a waste of a great actor.I think the worst waste was keeping him isolated with other villains.I feel like he interacted with the main characters though them and like by phone calls mostly.You'd think that when you get Michael Emerson you'd give the main cast as much time with him as possible but apparently not on arrow lol I don't think he was very much Felicity's or Oliver's villain tbh.Like sure he went after all of them but that's not what I would call a villain for a character specifically the way they sold him.It didn't feel personal or anything that developed Oliver or Felicity,it mostly pushed the plot forward.A villain for Felicity was like her ex Cooper or the her dad in season 4.For Oliver that was chase.I guess in 6.04 Cayden was closer to that but I expected a lot more than one episode.

I really hope they don't being back Ras,at least not before recasting the role first.But either way,the LoA is so boring and we've seen it almost every season now.The villain team is lame imo but Ras isn't a better option at all. I agree Lance should die or get written out at this point.I've never see a character that has only 2 storylines that keep getting repeated every season,it's such a waste of screentime.They're really not doing him any favors by making him not care how many people die as long as he gets to replace his dead daughter.It's a shame because it seemed like they won't go there at the end of season 5 and that he'll be reasonable about BS.

I think it's hard to feel sympathetic to why the newbies are upset because on the grand scale of things that happen on this show it's not a big deal.In this conflict the show literally proved OTA right in everything they did that the newbies found so horrible and made their actions understandable. Like sure it's not nice to spy on team mates but when Oliver is told one of those 3 people will put you in jail for life,it seems like a clear choice.Especially considering team arrow runs surveillance on people they suspect all the time and we have Curtis literally doing it to Felicity just last season.It's never been considered this unimaginable act that can't be forgiven until now suddenly.Then they really have OTA apologize and get rejected,then be nice in the last episode and get rejected as well.I mean I'm sure a lot of people would side with OTA no matter what because we've watched them much longer but they're not giving the newbies anything to sympathise with them about.Expect maybe Rene with his kid and I've seen most people say his choice is understandable but the way he's dealing with that decision and the fall out is just awful.

Loved this episode,well apart from the newbies stuff as usual.But it had a really great balance of action and emotion which arrow doesn't have a lot of the time. Domestic olicity was amazing,they really made up for the lack of it in the previous episode.It was exactly what I wanted to see for them as a married couple.I expected to hate the dad,step mom to William stuff and tbh I usually do but it was really well done in this episode.They gave William some personality,family scenes were cute and it tied in to the larger theme of the episode plus they didn't drag out the angst and drama.The kid still can't act at all and it makes me sad to think how much better it would have been if they recast.But he sells how much William likes Felicity,I think he's a lot better with EBR than SA or maybe just gets better scenes with her. Felicity's monologue was amazing,easily one of the best scenes the show has done.She really perfectly explained their life to a kid and we got some great insight into how Felicity deals with her fear of Oliver possibly not coming back one day.I loved seeing the fight scene from Felicity's perspective and how well she knows Oliver that she can predict his moves.EBR really killed it,no wonder SA had to tweet about it after watching the episode.The only negative there was the newbies being included while she talked about heroes because imo they don't deserve to be called that. They were awful this week too,kinda crazy that the show is making them this unlikable.Idk what reason the audience or OTA would have to want a team reconciliation.The level of resentment they show for OTA and especially Oliver and even Felicity from Rene's comments is so weird if they want these people back on team arrow.Every episode it's more apparent to me that their issue isn't trust but straight up resentment whether they're aware of it or not. Another weird thing is Digg and his desire to be GA.I guess they had to come up with something to justify him hiding his injury but this desire to be GA came out of nowhere imo.For years Digg is the guy who doesn't care about masks and codenames,he even made fun of it sometimes.He's the guy who only ever got a mask and codename for purely practical reasons and never seemed to put any big importance on either.And now suddenly cares so much that he's upset about not being GA.Pretty sure it will end with him realizing he can be as much of a hero as Spartan but I don't think that was ever a lesson he would need to learn.

I don't think it makes sense that the newbies trust each other so much because I mean Rene sold Oliver out.I don't think we're supposed to think it makes a difference that it was Oliver,if he was told your kid or Dinah and Curtis then he would have sold them out too.I don't see how they don't have an issue with that at all.Dinah kept Vigilante from them all,it's not like she told Curtis and Rene either.Feels to me like what's uniting them actually is spite and resentment for OTA tbh.

I don't think it was a big on olicity episode so yeah they weren't very couple-y to me.But I don't think they were in every episode of season 4a either so I don't think yet that it might be on purpose.It made sense in the episode I guess since they note how tired they are and how they barely even slept but I do think their basically first episode as a married couple could have included some more moments reflecting that in some way.

I feel like the newbies are basically LL,it's the same pissed off attitude,same whining,same hypocrisy etc.They all have some horrible aspect of her.Rene blames everyone else for everything and it's never his fault,Dinah is here prolonging the boring BC crap and is constantly angry as well as a huge hypocrite,Curtis literally seems like he's a vigilante for attention and glory even tho he sucks at it and has no real reason to do it just like Laurel.So honestly it's like she barely left since they showed up.Still wouldn't want LL back over them tho.When she was having her annual focus episodes there was nothing worse.I mean 2.14,the BC arc in season 3, the resurrecting Sara in season 4.It was worse than Not Team Arrow imo as horrible as they are as well.Plus her every scene with SA was painful,the anti chemistry coupled with KC trying to make LI Laurel still a thing was so bad,wouldn't have that back for anything lol

Yeah I don't think they intend to make the newbies hated,just like they didn't intend that when they introduced them in season 5 where they were also unpopular.But they're just really bad judges of audience reaction,it's kinda ridiculous how bad.I think it was a dumb idea to do this whole team split thing because even if the newbies had a point that's still putting them against characters we've watched for 5 and a half seasons opposed to characters who have been there a year.It's more likely the audience will side with characters that have been there from the start let alone when it's the lead plus the most popular characters.When we first heard about a team split and civil war storyline,I thought it'd be like Oliver and Felicity vs Digg and then some newbies take Oliver's side,some Digg's.I wouldn't have liked that tbh because I hate to see OTA fighting but at least that way you have some investment because they're so close and been through so much so working it out is worth it plus they have earned a equal say in how the team should run.I don't see how working it out with the newbies is supposed to be worth it when OTA barely has relationships with them that are stronger than co workers at best since most of them tend to talk to one OTA member and ignore others.

I think the best thing they can do is just accept that some characters in the story are just sidekicks and can't have equal status because it's a single lead show.I feel like every season there's some storyline with a new member who wants equal say even tho they've been there a season or are just newly trained.I don't get why because I think that's not possible to pull off and shouldn't be done when you have characters who've been there so much longer compared to season 5 additions.So they can just start writing the newbies like they did Roy imo after they make them apologize and grovel.But honestly I think it's kinda too late and they need to be rid of at least one of them if not all 3 ideally,3 new people and a 6 people team is kinda crazy.Like does even LoT have that many lol

Yeah I never understood why they didn't have a few masks be recurring instead of this everyone is in the field all the time thing.Because while it makes sense to have a bigger team now when it's a group of villains,that's not usually the case and Oliver and Digg could handle it.I always thought it was weird that they're insisting on a 6 people team where 5 people are fighters when this isn't a ensemble show.You can tell they struggle with group fight scenes and giving everyone something to do.

Oh yeah not only did they not earn the same level of being heroes as OTA has but they also don't have the relationships developed to pull of that type of storyline.Because Rene never talks to Felicity,Curtis barely talks to Digg or Oliver,Dinah never talks to Felicity and talked to Oliver in like two episodes.We just don't see the relationships on screen to be invested in that type of storyline even if their reasons weren't as totally illogical as they are.

Seriously I don't think I've ever seen a worse team storyline than this tbh.It's kinda crazy how bad it is if the purpose is supposed to be to unite the team at the end but instead it's coming off like a reveal that the newbies hate and resent Oliver,Felicity and Diggle who don't exactly give a crap about them either.It really shows that the writers just never write for characters it's always about plot.Feels like they just decided we're doing a civil war storyline and doesn't matter if it makes sense or makes the characters the audience isn't that excited about in the first place,look horrible. I agree that it's hard to tell if we're supposed to think OTA is in the wrong because they're just not but you never know with this show.I feel like the fact that they apologized covered their part of the everyone is wrong about something storyline and the newbies are left to learn their lesson. OTA was amazing in this ep tho,I loved all their scenes.Especially Digg and Felicity,funny how it took the people they have to prop finally being gone for them to actually talk on screen.And I love how much faith Oliver has in Digg and Felicity and their team,you can just tell these are the people he wants to do this with.He was also really mature and just the bigger person in all of this.He apologized to a bunch of immature jerks when they didn't deserve it because that was what needed to be done for the city(tho I think it's unbelievably contrived that he has no options apart from the newbies). Rene again started of kinda sympathetic but again he won't really accept responsibility that he didn't find another way and chose the selfish way and is now hiding behind the kid he had to be convinced not to abandon a second time.And again when Oliver forgives and even apologized he acts like a jerk for no real reason compared to what he did. Dinah is just angry all the time,it's really off putting imo.Reminds me of Laurel so I guess for them that's the defining trait for BC along with the hypocrisy. Curtis was horrible as usual.He has as many relevant reasons to be angry as he has to be a vigilante.I feel like that's how you know a character is useless and forced in, when they do this dramatic stuff for no reason and put themselves in positions they don't belong in by simple logic.He's honestly coming off like he wants attention.He's pissed that he's not as important to Oliver as Felicity and Digg.All the newbies are looking like that's the real issue for them and it's so petty and unrealistic to expect Oliver to see them as important to him as his wife and the man he calls a brother who have been with him through everything for 6 years,saved his life countless times and never once betrayed him. And tbh I'm ready for Lance to die or leave or something.Because if his only storyline every single season is going to be acting crazy because of one of his daughters then it's a waste of time.I do get someone had to be sacrificed to care about BS so she has a reason to be on the show and I'm so glad it's not Oliver,Felicity or Digg but Lance is just looking dumb.

Yeah I don't think they're going to be shown as wrong.I think what they'll do that will annoy me is that they'll show them as kinda incompetent,that they'll suddenly be unable to deal with things on their own without the big team.But the team getting back together will most likely be a they all learned a lesson type of thing.

Oh yeah I do think that's the intention.But like the set up for Oliver and Felicity wasn't really that great imo the way it played out since Oliver was lying to Felicity about having a child when they were about to get married and Felicity worked with a shady organization to help the team and it wasn't even a secret,she just kinda didn't talk about it but they knew she was doing something on the side plus her and Oliver weren't even together.This is that same kind of false equivalency where Oliver doesn't trust the team for very good reasons since one of them betrayed him and would sell in out to the police and then even when given another chance blew that as well and the others sided with him as well as were shown to keep secrets too.While on the other side the newbies are pissed Oliver didn't trust them even tho it showed it was for a good reason.So when they try this everyone is wrong and needs to learn thing in situations where one side is a lot more in the wrong but present it equal,it's pretty annoying imo.

It's so weird to me that EK is like Curtis is hurt they didn't give him the benefit of a doubt.Because like this wasn't a situation of somehow information got out about Oliver and it could have been anyone in the city spreading it but Oliver wrongly suspected them,it was a situation in which Oliver was told it's someone from the team for sure and was right.So makes sense the people he won't suspect were his wife and best friend of five years.Sure you could say Curtis probably gets more trust because he's been there longer but didn't he just in that episode show his resentment over Oliver and Felicity getting married when his marriage failed and blamed the team for it,he did this both in public and in private.And again ignoring he literally put tracking devices into Felicity's food to see what she was doing away from the team and that didn't require him earning her forgiveness at all. I think it says a lot about how resentful the newbies are of OTA when Dinah and Curtis will rather side with Rene who literally sold Oliver out to the police which would affect all of them too but can't handle Oliver tracking them to see who was about to send him to jail when he was told it was one of them for sure and their problem also seems to be why he didn't suspect Digg and Felicity too which is so petty and immature imo.

lol basically that comes off like let Felicity be sacrificed as LI so Dinah and BS can be their own characters instead of a part of a ship with Oliver even tho this very site has been crying about it for years.Not transparent at all.

Idk what I hate more,another William in danger plot or a William in danger bringing the newbies and OTA back together lol Seriously tho how many times will they do the kid gets kidnapped or targeted thing,you'd think since it was the plot of his first appearance on arrow and then again in the last episodes of season 5 that they would give it more time before repeating it.But then when I think of Thea and all the times she's been in the hospital and in a coma,its not that surprising.I would love if this results in William finally being sent away to live with the grandparents but I'm not getting my hopes up tho.

Honestly I feel like actual full weddings are so rare on a TV show,I wasn't really expecting some perfect,traditional ceremony so I wasn't that bothered by it even tho I think a double wedding is cheesy and dumb.My main thing was actually getting a good build up to the wedding and some great scenes,the ceremony wasn't really something I cared about all that much at all.It was just something that made it official.Tbh idk how you expect the whole wedding thing to be shown and treated like in real life plus all the planning parts as well.I think both olicity and WA got a surprising amount of wedding stuff over the seasons,a lot more than I've seen for most ships outside of like sitcoms.So find all the focus on proper etiquette or wedding gifts pretty weird especially on a superhero TV show.

Yeah the 100th party was a mess,clearly no one cared enough to make it special for arrow and they basically used it as a crossover party.But there are people who had some idea that it was rude to hog the spotlight,I think I remember Grant was there but you barely saw him,Carlos Valdes as well.So it wasn't everyone who behaved that way even tho clearly they could have since there was zero organization of the pics and on the red carpet.

Yeah some are true tho blown out of proportion and with the context ignored to make it worse.Like takes her ex bf's jet to have sex with Oliver lol.Would anyone without a huge hate for Felicity interpret her actions in 3.20 like that.Or accusing her of badmouthing Moira or leaving Oliver homeless when he moved out after a break up from a place she was paying for.Not to even mention accusing her of nuking a city or wanting to let people die to save Oliver.Just a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense and didn't happen like that at all plus stuff that was presented as her making a mistake and learning from it. But also like it's a TV show,of course characters will make mistakes,it's what moves the story along.

Wow I wonder if they twist and nitpicking every character's actions like that and use it as this awful thing.Somehow I think not.

Yeah same,I thought Rene was weirdly the most sympathetic of the newbies in all this up to that point where he just went his own way for no real reason other than it's his thing to disobey orders.It was really weird,it's not like Oliver said let Lance die or the newbies actually had some plan to save him that succeeded,they seemingly just got pissed because they were being told what to do by OTA.

I don't think Oliver would have sold anyone out like that even for William.At least for sure not so easily and without trying every other way.even in all the myson stuff in the season 5 finale,Oliver couldn't choose William over everyone else and tried to save both by wounding Chase. I thought he reacted really well,idk what he was supposed to do.I don't think he should have confronted them when he knew that one had already betrayed them,how was he supposed to believe they won't lie or something.I'm surprised that he was willing to forgive that fast but I have no idea why Rene suddenly forgot all his guilt as soon as Oliver forgave him and turned into a bratty teen basically.Oliver shouldn't have to be on the team with people he doesn't trust imo.

I agree that Curtis just never seems to be off,like he's incapable of taking anything seriously.I don't think Felicity was ever written like that,not even in season 1,so over the top with the one liners and references.I think that might be because pretty soon they knew she would have a bigger role and be Oliver's LI so they didn't look at her as just comic relief,at least for very long.Curtis seems to be comic relief first,an actual character second.I didn't like him that much in season 4 either tbh but at least he wasn't a huge hypocrite.