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I come from the @AyChihuahua school of thought aka Ray Palmer is such a douchebag no woman (irrespective of who it is) deserves to get stuck with him. Plus the only thing that I can imagine worse than Laurel and Ray separately would be Laurel and Ray together. Unless of course it's in LOT, then Godspeed my friends because I will not be watching that and that way I'll never have to see either of them again (crossovers notwithstanding) Also now that we've finally moved on from sister swapping, can we not move on to partner swapping? I'm still cringing from the Laurel/Oliver/Sara/Nyssa of it all. Adding Ray and Felicity to the mix would up the gross factor too much, which if their rumoured plans for a Ray/Sara romance have any credence, is going to happen anyway. Save Sara Lance, has she not suffered enough?

Well she's her mentor don't ya know? I swear the level of stupid in the story line is UNREAL. Even more now that MG has declared that LL is being brave bringing her sister back. I'm legitimately starting to worry about the writers and ppl who have no probs with this story line. Like where do you draw the line in your own lives? This is not a shipper thing or an anti-LL as BC thing. I've seen ppl who are fans of the character genuinely upset at the way in which she's being portrayed and MG just brushed them and their worries aside with a "what more do you want?"

More Ray Palmer...yuck Why the hell does DD have him? Why would Felicity feel guilty about that? Why would that cause tension between her and Oliver? I'm just going to take a deep breath and remember that so far this season the eps have been much better than the episode summaries have lead me to expect. Here's hoping that trend continues.

When was that exactly? Not being sarcastic, I just really didn't read it that way. From what I've seen she's still powering on, fueled by her misplaced usual belief that she's always right.

I know how I feel about it and it's PO'd. Separate storylines great, artificial/forced separation to make room for new and not-so-loved characters, not so much. This show struck gold when it hit upon the unlikely crime fighting team of Oliver, Diggle and Felicity. What's more, OTA worked spectacularly together or in any of its various permutations. There's a zing and an energy to a scene comprised of any of the core trio, that has yet to be replicated by any other members of the Arrow cast. Now, while I'm convinced the show runners know just how lucky they were to have stumbled upon that kind of chemistry as demonstrated by WM's profuse praise during SDCC, I'm worried now that it was all just lip service to keep the OTA part of the audience happy. I understand that (as much as I hate change) tv shows, like life, cannot remain stagnant and must evolve and grow but there's a way to do that, so that the core original trio and their unique and very-earned bond can be honoured. Instead, it seems the EP's are willing to rip OTA apart again and again and force other characters in, in a effort to have those characters benefit from some of the affection that the audience has for OTA. What makes it all worse, is when the writing is so bad that its made obvious that my favourite characters are suffering only so that others may get a chance to shine. RP and his entire 'hero arc' was why Diggle and Felicity barely shared any scenes last seasons, so that Felicity could be cut off not just from Oliver but from her built in support system in the team. LL and her 'hero arc' are why Diggle suddenly couldn't go out in the field and why Oliver chose an untrained lawyer instead of an army veteran to accompany him on his mission. I suffered through that level of insanity in s3, but that's not going to work, for me at least, this time around. We're two episodes in and while I can buy that Diggle is still upset with Oliver and that some of those feelings may spill over to his relationship with Felicity, I cannot believe the level of BS that would be necessary to accept that after keeping it a secret from O and F for years, he would immediately turn around and spill a 'family' secret to LL. There's no way that years of a friendship, honed by shared sacrifice and danger could possibly compare to 5 months fighting at the side of a woman who frequently treated him as just the help before, especially when it seems he couldn't be bothered to even share what had transpired with Thea and the pit. Just to be clear my problems in this scenario are not just limited to LL. I'm just as worried that for Felicity, last years Palmer's Island is going to become residence on Echo's ...(supply the alliterative geographical option of your choice) The continued emphasis on Mr Terrific being an addition for Felicity 'to talk to' didn't really gain any traction with me, until the first two episodes aired and I realised that no one in the lair, other than Oliver bothered to talk to her. With any other show runners, I'd wave this concern off but after the lengths that they went to in s3 to make RP and LL relevant, I'm a bit worried. They seem unable to achieve the level of balance necessary to introduce new characters and relationships while still honouring the old, hell most of the time, I doubt whether they have the will to even attempt that. It's as though they cannot fathom how to expand the Arrow universe and the characters that inhabit it, without destroying some of the old and for me, as an OTA fan that is a worrying thing. Yes, I'm a huge Olicity fan, but that is not the only reason I tune in. I want powerful and well told stories about characters I care about, if you can't make other characters interesting without tearing down my faves then that says something about you and proposed additions. As always, YMMV.

Nope this is Laurel Lance, Tefllon Princess, nothing sticks to her. Someone else will end up getting em and then Daddy Lance will blame Oliver. That's the natural order of things on Arrow

Oh I definitely picked up on that but too late Wendy. Of course this also means that it's going to go exactly as I feared, with little to no repercussions for LL. Instead it'll be played like Thea went for her own purpose and of her own volition while Ll just tagged along with her dead sister in tow.

That line legitimately had me wondering if I'd missed something. It was s3 levels of WTfuckery. Saving the kid and winking were fine but then getting praised for literally helping him stand up had me loling so hard. I may or may not have also dubbed myself a superhero too at that point, since I've a 5yr who I've been known to pick up from time to time.

Yeah it definitely sounds as though she was sold the show on a premise that no longer exists which is really unfortunate and on that basis she has my sympathy. However, from her comments, she continues to treat the show as though it still fits that mould and her inability to see the show that exists now, does her no favours.

Yes but the key difference is everybody, including Oliver himself, acknowledges that he has done and continues to do dumb shit. When it comes to Ms. Lance, that is yet to happen and frankly after the way that her decision not to tell QL about Sara was handled, I hold out little hope that it ever will

Well yeah he was angry with her but he didn't choose to set up a manhunt to capture her despite knowing of her being a vigilante. As far as I recall, even though he was upset with her, at worst he stayed away from her and said he needed a break. All his furor, all his rage and vitriol was directed squarely at Oliver, who merely honoured LL's decision not to tell her father the truth of Sara's death. Then even when it was happening at no point did we see LL (or anyone else to be quite honest) step forward to clarify that it was not Oliver's decision to keep the truth about Sara from QL, so if that was the root of Quentin's anger (as the show seemed to suggest) then it was definitely directed at the wrong person. She made the decision and had to deal with her father being angry with her for a while, Oliver supported that decision and as a result his life, his freedom and his secret identity were at risk. Furthermore, from what I've seen of the spoilers so far, in s4 QL's fatherly affection for LL is going to mean that he's going to be getting over however perturbed he was with her much sooner than any olive branch is going to be extended Oliver's way. This entire Storyline did LL no favours and the stupid thing is had Quentin been told that Oliver protected MM, who was in fact responsible for SL's death I would've understood his rage and the fact that it was directed at Oliver, from what we've seen on screen though, QL just seems disproportionately angry with Oliver but s3 seems to have been the season of stupid. Here's hoping they've learned their lesson for all of our sake.

This is the exact kind of comment that was being made last season when LL was keeping Sara's death a secret from QL and look how that turned out. I hope it's different this time but LL always seems to get off scot free after making some kind of boneheaded decision while others pay the price. I hope the writers have learned from that mistake but having her be the one to prompt SL's resurrection does not bode well

An apple maybe? I'm so sorry...I couldn't resist, it was the perfect set up.

Oh Katie. First you don't need a love interest because you're a strong independent woman. Then you respond to a question about what character development you'd want for Laurel with getting involved in the 'Olicity triangle', which...yeah... either Olicity doesn't mean what she thinks it does or triangle doesn't. Either way, what she says makes no sense to me.

@Emerald Archer my comments and my ire were in no way directed at you. I hope that you did not feel that way, as it was certainly not my intention. Your comments were taken in the spirit in which they were intended and if anything its the people clamouring for the use of 'pretty bird' that really get me going.

I cringe so hard at the thought of a man calling a woman "Pretty Bird" that if any man were to ever call any female on the show that name, I would be tempted to grab the nearest blunt object and conk him on the head with it. It apparently worked in the comics, but I hope the EP's are smart enough to stay far away from that one. To me, there's no way it can come across as anything other than demeaning. So @NoWayOut, your suggestion that may be the only one that may not leave me screaming at my screen in anger :)

The writing makes me think they hate KC but someone/something (the network/her contract? idk) is making it impossible to write her off the show because aside from the myriad problems I have with her portrayal of LL, the writing certainly does her no favours.

Honestly, I have no sympathy for any of the participants in the Oliver Queen-Lance sister triangle of doom. That entire debacle in all its various incarnations leaves a bad taste in my mouth. As if the sister swapping pre-series wasn't bad enough, they decided to revisit it post-island by having Oliver sleep with LL and then SL in short succession. Yuck. It was gross then and it was even grosser the second time around and no amount of LL giving her blessing to the relationship would make it any more palatable. In fact, it kind of made it grosser in my eyes. It solidified the feeling I got during the flashbacks when SL mentioned that she'd had a crush on OQ and LL knew that and orchestrated things to meet him first. It was as though OQ had no say in any of this and which sister he was with was entirely up to them and their machinations. They behaved, at times as if he were a toy that the Lance sisters were fighting over, which was frankly ridiculous. This triangle brought out the worst in everybody and made all three characters involved unlikable and impossible to root for. Pre-island "Ollie" was a douchebag of epic proportions who not only cheated on his gf, but chose to do so with her sister. LL was shown to be calculating with her scheming to prevent Sara from meeting OQ and then quite easily turning a blind eye to his frequent cheating (In another person I might have called that naivety but LL, even in the Fbs comes across as anything but, so my only guess is she was willing to accept his cheating in order to become Ms. Oliver Queen) SL may have believed herself in love with OQ and them to have been denied the relationship they could've had because of LL but once LL became his gf, he should've been off limits. I'm really confused as to what Sara thought her relationship with OQ was before they set off on the trip. He was still clearly dating her sister and he promised her that LL would never find out about them so clearly he never intended/promised to dump LL and start to openly date SL, so what was Sara's endgame? Even if all of that could be forgiven as the foibles of teenagers/persons on the cusp of their 20's, the fact that all three chose to revisit these very messy dynamics once OQ and SL returned from the island made all of it even worse.

As far as I recall it wasn't so much that they wouldn't break up this season but that they were in no hurry to do so. So a break up this season could still happen but don't expect it right away.

To be honest I'm not really that worried about 4A, the first half of the seasons are always pretty strong imo, it's what happens after the winter break that usually concerns me. (Yes I even enjoyed the first 9 eps of season 3). It's like they begin the season raring to go and full of all these wonderful story ideas for the first 8/9 eps and a definite feel for how and where they want the season to end but with no plan in mind for the middle. This usually translates to a pretty good 1st half of the season followed by the doldrums after the winter hiatus where nothing seems to happen and/or they make it up as they go, until they can kick their finale plans into gear. In a 23 ep season, its impossible for all the episodes to be of a similar high quality but this period can span as much as 8-9 eps, which is a major part of any season. Last year those eps were devoted to selling the need for and importance of the newbie heroes and for me were almost painful to watch as almost every plot point seemed designed to blatantly pimp LL and RP as 'heroes'. This year I'm worried the doldrums (coming after the resurrection of Sara and the LOT set up) will be used for Oliver to ponder whether he can be with FS and the GA, cue much introspection and waffling on Oliver's part, as the plot conspires to throw numerous obstacles in the path of Oliver and Felicity, at least until they're ready to kick off the final arc of the season where everything is resolved in time for the finale and let's be real, we endured enough of that last year. It's not just the anvilicous nature of the writing during this part of the season but the fact that, it's all designed to just tread water until they get to the last part of the season aka the already determined end and these writers have shown that when they write to service plot, the characters often suffer and start saying and behaving in ways that can only be described as OOC. So after much rambling...I guess my point is, I've heard all the EP's have to say about learning from the mistakes made last season but don't trust them to not fall back into their old patterns during those middle eps where they seem to suffer from a dearth of ideas.

It's all about playing with the shiny new toys now.

I (vaguely) remember a spoiler that we'd seen more of Felicity's "family" this season so my question is are we too focused on her father and can we instead expect to meet some other family members first? Siblings maybe?

I'd actually hoped that they were going to employ the flash fwd route last season. Before the premier aired and while still high on spoilers, I thought that maybe the happy-flirty-going on a date Olicity that all culminated in a bloodied Felicity on the foundry med table, was actually a flash forward and that they'd spend the season showing us how we got there. So we would've seen lots of flirty banter, Oliver realising and accepting his feelings and you know, all that wonderful progression of their relationship that we missed in the summer of 2.5. Hanging over all of this would've been the knowledge that Felicity ended up hurt and the question of just how badly it would be and only in the finale would we have gotten a resolution. I was actually pretty disappointed when the premier aired and my idea didn't pan out. Maybe I was just a season ahead ;)

From the The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow thread- So I'm thinking Flash Forward? Maybe to the end of season? That would certainly be one way to have something hanging over everything for the entire season so that even when everything was good, we'd know that it was only a matter of time for the sword to fall. If handled well, it could be brilliant. (If I had a dollar for every time I used that particular caveat about an Arrow story line...)

I love that show and Dennis Quaid was ridiculously hot in it.