raytch

Oh boy please no. I mean I'm still having PTSD from the love triangles on The Vampire Diaries. One of the brighter spots on this how so far has been the absence of love triangles.

I think it was Jack Shaftoe on the media thread, who made a very interesting point: that people see what they want to see in the show. To some extent, that is very true, and that's what a lot of the TV/Film critique industry relies on. Hitchcock for instance, said a lot of the interpretations and analysis were things he did not even think about while making his films. The only thing that was intended was the train sequence at the end of North by Northwest, which was a visual interpretation to intercourse. I think he was talking about the book written by Truffaut on his films, though I could be mistaken (it could also be the one written by Russell Taylor or any other books published more recently). Does this make it any less valid? No, and the fact that his works are still being studied until now reinforces this. We see the world through our own experiences and perceptions, does it mean the world is that we see it? Hardly. So what's important, is that we don't define the show by what we take from it, which is where Heather's and Jacob's writings and interpretations derail a bit. Jacob especially tends to repeat himself in terms of themes being explored on different shows (see Gossip Girls recaps and the PLL ones), so I think it's safe to say while he does offer some great insight, I think a lot of the time he is taking from the shows what he wants to take. I'm gonna share this with you guys because I feel it's important to what I'm trying to say. I live in a full on rape culture society. While Lebanon is better than most arab countries, it is still a heavily patriarchal society where women still suffer from domestic violence on a daily basis. Last year, a woman was beaten to death by her husband, who had been abusing her for a while; she had told her family about it, but they told her she is his wife and she should suck it up and basically just try to avoid making him angry. This woman called her parents somewhere in the middle of the attack, and they had to listen to her screaming for help to no avail. Honor crimes are still a thing here, which, if you don't know what that is, it's when someone kills someone else in order to defend their family honor. So if a girl has sex before marriage, or tries to run away with a guy, any member of the girl's family has the right to kill the girl and the guy and only be imprisoned for it for 30 days. A lot of cases have reported girls trying to run away with the first guy they meet to escape an incestuous abusive family member (usually a father or brother). Maids are "delivered" to your home to work for you for even less than minimum wage without any supervision/protection laws. So there's a good chunk of people who treat their maids as slaves, depriving them from food or water, or abusing them physically and or sexually. The LGTB community is no better, some people are arrested and raped out of hate by the police. Some are arrested indefinitely for being gay, some are murdered etc... The police here is one big mafia circle, there was a video all over the news a few weeks ago, about a guy who got beaten and stabbed to death by a coked up body guard of a high profile figure, in the middle of a street in the daylight, with policemen standing and watching. The reason? The other guy honked and swore at him when he double crossed him on the road, almost causing his car to drift off the road. It was only after the video was shared heavily on social networks, that the guy was arrested. The police's response was: don't swear at people because they might have a lethal weapon and use it against you. I have been harassed by countless police men, and abused at a very early age by a not so distant family member. I won't dwell much on the details, but while I never saw myself as a victim in this, I did carry the shame with me for a very long time, because when I tried to tell my mom and she addressed the family, the family treated me like a crazy person and suddenly all my cousins and aunts were trying to tell me it's all in my head (which by the way worked for a while, as I only remembered this incident about 10 years ago). I'm not saying it's the common consensus here, but the system is constructed in a way that these things happen quite often, and more often than not, the offenders suffer little to no punishment for their crimes. So for me, I picked up on the feminist side of this show quite early. Especially that I had taken a couple of courses in film theory and Auteur directors when I was in photography school. Around the end of season 3 my sister and I were discussing the show in terms of feminism, and she told me that I should read Jacob's recaps on TWoP and from there I found Heather's. I was thrilled that they were actually addressing and analyzing the feminist/patriarchy allusions on the show while snarking on the ridiculous things that happen every week. I don't agree with everything they say, but I also find some very valid truth in what they write. But I also realize that my background and my experiences, make me pick up on those things or sometimes change how I see a certain scene on the show. I don't think the show can be defined by its' feminism, especially not after the EzrA reveal, and how Ali has been handled since her comeback. As someone above in the Autostraddle post said, the show is open to interpretation, basically you can watch it for years for the crazy twists, the shocked faces and the crazy outfits without thinking about female agency/empowerment once, and you can dwell on the details and try to read between the lines. I'm still not sure what to make of the Charlotte story line, mostly because it didn't feel like a story line as much as a twist. Even if it was well intentioned on the writers side, a lot of people are furious about it, and those who are addressing the plot holes, are not transphobic, they are simply addressing a real problem that happened with this reveal, and I genuinely think the writers need to listen to them instead of pushing them off and saying oh well sorry if it makes you uncomfortable but it was vital for us to go there. At the end of the day, they're entitled to tell any story they want without needing to apologize for it. But I think, for this particular story to resonate, they needed to take more time. I wouldn't have minded if 6A started where it ended, with the liars discussing what they now know and then showing us how they got there through the episodes, which would have shown us the liars and Charlotte operating up until the reveal. Like someone above mentioned, I understand that they needed to include a trans female character, but I think they should have put more thought into it. Especially since they kept insisting: it's not the WHO, it's the why. It would've been more appropriate if they gave us the who and then walked us through the why and then have the finale be the long awaited confrontation with some meaningful and much necessary dialogue between the liars, Ali, and Charlotte.

Well there's that one time where Emily and Paige shared a passionate kiss and Emily removed Paige's bra strap ferociously. Why was that in Spencer's study aids induced hallucination is one of the show's biggest mysteries by itself.

Thanks for this!!! I wish someone would address the jarring plot holes and the fact they changed six seasons of back story to make the story fit with the A reveal.

So, Reddit users started a petition! Refilm the Pretty Little Liars -A Reveal/Release the Original Episode

Spencer Hastings! Where ya been? It's not Wilden :-(

Thanks for this DigitalCount! I was thinking we need a thread for this because the episode thread was going in too many directions. I too, am currently on my phone but would love to join in on the discussion once I can open my laptop.

I read in one of the million articles and interviews floating around that Wren is not an accomplice and was never a suspect. If he was helping Cece then he did it unknowingly... How could Melissa, Ian, garnett and co not think it's weird that Cece never wear to their school but was somehow prom queen on their yearbooks?

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. Thanks for this. As I said before, I love that this finale started this kind of conversation, my only concern is that people don't know enough about the subject so they just might be jumping to conclusions. So far it's nice to see that very very few people are using an offensive language, which as Heather or Jacob said I can't remember, is a language the show started with the "he/she/it/bitch" naming in 5x25. Again, I really don't want to offend anyone. I'm glad that I'm learning so much about this extremely important and sensitive topic. This forum has been like my Sesame Street for the past few days! Seriously though, I come from a place where this is hardly ever discussed in public, and when it is, you can probably guess it's never really constructive. Also, gay people here live in constant fear of being dragged to prison and raped by hateful policemen in the process, so you can only imagine what it's like for transexuals who out themselves.

This is the best explanation anyone could ever come up with. You're a genius!

To the original poster, the answer to your question is no you cannot.

THIS I feel like the entire Cece/Kenneth thing is unreliable narrator. We only see their sides as they saw it. ITA about everything you said but mostly that part in bold. As the finale was airing I posted something like are they seriously trying to shame us into sympathizing with A? And after all these interviews / twitter reactions, I still feel the same. I wish Marlene would step up and say "we couldn't tie the story up any better, but I hope you understand what we were trying to do with the story of all these effed up family members. We have a clean slate now and hopefully we'll do better with the next season".

Is anyone else really wishing Jacob from TWoP would write a recap/review somewhere? I really wanna know what he thinks about all this.

I'm sorry if I came off as rude and insensitive. I just feel that, the show should explain that, because a lot of the fandom are assuming that Cece transitioned while still a teenager and in such a short amount of time. This should be clarified because that is not the way it goes. It's a long delicate process, and you have to be 18 to start it. Also, it does matter logistically in terms of how the story unfolds. This is my whole point, they can't backtrack on some of the most important parts of the mystery in favor of playing out this storyline, and then when people tell them it makes no sense they go like YOU DON'T GET IT. Thank you for the explanation, I didn't know that. Is anyone else thinking they originally wanted Wren/someone else as Charles and when he was too busy or said no or whatever reason that didn't work out they went with Cece? I don't know... this is the only way to explain the plot holes that the finale has created. I really really hope the writers listen to what people are telling them this time. For everyone's sake, they need to somehow explore this after the time jump.

Never forget that Caleb somehow ended up with gun shot in his beautiful abs!

What pissed me off about that article (or maybe it was a different one I dunno), was her saying she didn't want to comment on HOW Cece went through the sex change (if she just identified as a girl or went through the complete transition). Like if she presents a character as transgender that's still tiptoeing around the "grey" area, but to actually get in on the details of how this happened, logistically, that would be taking too far. THis is like Cece's reasoning in the finale "I did date my brother yes. but bang him I did not because that would be INSANE" Ugh. Sweetheart, not only are you in the grey area, you're bathing and drowning and splashing in IT!

Ok. I think I've calmed down enough to put some thoughts into words. First, I hate this reveal. Second, I love that it opened an important discussion. http://www.autostraddle.com/pretty-little-liars-episode-610-recap-i-feel-a-lot-safer-when-im-in-charge-of-what-happens-to-me-302360/ Last night I read Heather Hogan's recap on autostraddle, and I feel what she said really sums it all up on the transgender issue. I think she's giving the writers a whole lot benefit of the doubt, because ever since they went the EzrA (NOT) route, I doubt they are able to pull this off in a good way. This said, I don't mind Cece being A. I mind Cece being 1) A, 2) Ali's long lost sibling, 3) and also a transgender. I think the writers took a lot more than they can juggle with this story line. Like you all said before, this would have still worked if it was a long lost sister. I don't know if this was planned since season 3, if it really was the writers should have paid more attention. Yes, there have been clues for Ali having a sister since season 2, and clues to Cece being A ever since she was introduced in season 3, but being A, and transgender does not add up with anything we already knew. One thing we knew for sure this season, was that Charles was in his early 20s when Marion Cavanaugh was killed. Bethany was 2 years older than Ali so she must have been 15. They can't tell us / show us otherwise and expect us to be all "OK sure!" These writers have been telling us since they introduced the Marion Cavanaugh story line that we need to pay attention to this, because if we can figure out this particular mystery, we can pretty much get the ball rolling and get all of our answers from there. They also particularly said they will not be doing a transgender storyline, because it's too wild. They could have just said "never say never, or haha wouldn't that be fun" but they actually meant to mislead the fandom. Every time someone would ask "Am I crazy for thinking it could be Wilden/Wren/Ezra/etc..?" the writers responded "No you're not just wait for it". And now they're acting like everything they did was solid and they did these "questionable" choices for the sake of art and the fans who are upset by this reveal are having a hard time with the writers' choice of making A transgender. I'm even shocked by Norman Buckley's responses about this show being "dreamlike". Every show needs anchors to ground it, even the craziest most fantasy sci-fi ones... it's called mythology or lore or whatever you wanna name it, and follows a certain logic. This reveal went against some of the most crucial points of the mystery and that is why it made me angry (and still does). A lot of TV shows establish a world only to keep turning it around and changing the status quo every once in a while to keep things fresh. The liars have been in high school since season 1. We are still dealing with the same mystery we've dealt with in the pilot. THE PILOT. So yes, it's important that those answers make sense. It's really really important for us fans who have watched and defended this show for years that the writers don't go and dish everything they've told us in the garbage, then say "but she's transgender. Sympathize!"

Well it doesn't matter. There's rape and incest in one sentence!

Yep still not ready to discuss. I'll try again in an hour.

*hugs and pie* Remember how we all thought what a bad idea it would be if it was Lucas? I'd take him now.

Just one last thought. The moms are still locked in the basement.

Pfff I swear it's like the writers don't watch their own show. Charles should have been 21 by the time Marion died. Someone had to kidnap Sara Harvey the next day and if Cece went back with Wilden to Radley... If Mona thought she killed Ali how the hell was she not shocked to see her wandering on the side of the road? What was she doing in the Ds backyard that night? Screw this. I'm going to bed. Can't believe I stayed up for this.

That my friend is Shower Harvey with a dark hair wig. Yeap. They went there.

I know! I mean what the fuck show? Didn't the writers announce a while back that they're not going with a transgender storyline because it's such a sensitive matter? And if they even try to back track this, like oh yeah Cece was totally lying. She's just a nut job, Charles is still out there somewhere.... then they have a whole other problem on their hand because 1) it does not cancel out that they even tried to go there in such a horrible way. 2) it means that AGAIN we have been given half answers.

I can't deal with what just happened. Marlene what the fuck did you do? I can't find the words. This is so so so bad you guys. I felt nothing. I didn't feel bad for Cece for a single moment and if the show is actually trying to shame us into feeling bad for Charles because he transgendered then this is bad for the world. THE WHOLE GODDAMN WORLD. Lii, I'm sorry you're gonna have to experience this alone.