LizaD

We've got enough of a sample size to say the writers' Woegina Mary Sue fanfiction sucks ass. It's because they go into straight up fanfiction mode anytime they center a plot around her that is to blame for the suckery, regardless of whether she's actually driving the plot or not. None of the "heroes" ever drive plot. And now that Woegina's all hero-ing she's not really doing anything but it's still about her. She's the one with the most screentime, most centrics and LP did the most PR for the show this half-season. Let's take a look: 2B: The Greatest Victim Story Ever Told-The one in which lasagna is rejected making Woegina the biggest victim ever and Snow's Dark Heart-cause heroes suck ass 3B: The Greatest Light Magic Ever-The one in which Woegina becomes a hero and Snow's dark curse and everyone else is useless-cause heroes suck ass 4B: Title pending-But the one in which Woegina the hero/victim searches for her happy ending and Snowing's Dark Deed and Emma's Dark Heart cause heroes, besides Woegina the hero-victim, suck ass All of their Woegina arcs have 1 and ONLY 1 theme: heroes vs villains and that's their most problematic area because their morality is just plain fucked up and dishonest. They have never told an honest story, outside of S1, when they get on their soapboxes and try to be all deep about good vs. evil. None of the other arcs, which are not Woegina focused, deal heavily with good vs evil even though a villain figures most prominently in them and drives most of the action. 3A had Pan but rather than direct good vs evil it was bout abandonment and parental issues. 4A had Ingrid but it was more about family acceptance and loving yourself than good vs evil. And that arc had the word "monster" repeated a million times each episode and it still isn't heavy handed on the good vs evil stuff. 2A introduced Hook and Cora and it still didn't have that theme. The element was there of course but it was in an organic way that came about from the stories going on. It wasn't THE actual story like in the "B's" arcs where it's so ham-fisted.

Well that's because she temporarily forgot about the hankering moon bracelet that will grant you anything you desire, even realm traveling. Of course this thing only works if you're heartless so voila! I think that was just to emphasize that Emma is more powerful than Zelena and a lot of the other magic users since it was also the episode that she was practicing her magic.

It also falls under the category of "it was so long ago that it doesn't count anymore!" Remember that gem? But somehow Snow and Charming's "crimes" move on a different time scale. It didn't. There was the shadow thing going around ripping out shadows for him. Besides it was his "talking" that got Henry to rip out his own heart. Man we were so close to that annoying brat dying. Anyway his m.o. is a lot like Rump's. He rather give people enough rope to hang themselves than actually doing anything himself.

But they didn't think killing Pan was wrong. I'm pretty sure they called it a heroic move on Rump's part. They weren't specifically saying Rump was redeemable cause he had a sob story there. It was specifically the act of killing Pan that redeemed him. There killing Pan was for the greater good. They didn't see killing Mal in the first season was wrong either. If Cruella was true evil and all killing is wrong no matter what, they wouldn't have needed to thrown in that caveat about her not being a real threat to Henry. Seriously why was that part needed? They added that in just to make sure the sheep sees Emma as going evil for killing a person that wasn't capable of carrying out evil. Just like they tried to sell Cora with her heart wouldn't have been a real threat either or given Snow another option in letting Rump die instead of killing Cora. We know it's complete BS but their little added plot details are clear as glass as to their intentions. It's not as blatant as Cora cause Cruella isn't attached to The Biggest Victim Story Ever Told but that little detail made a big difference. Pan had no such caveats attached to him. It's also early days yet. Cora didn't get a real sob story till after her death. They can always bring back Cruella in a flashback for one featuring evil Eva.

I haven't seen the episode but got a bit recap. I think to A&E it would make Cruella the most misunderstood, next to Woegina. People already label her a villain and she can't do anything. They unfairly and unjustly judged her for crimes she's literally not capable of carrying out. Unlike you know those dastardly so-called "heroes" who kill and kidnap indiscriminately. I think if they had intended for Cruella to come off as truly evil then Emma offing her would not be deemed evil. So by A&E's standards, Pan still reigns as the only evil around town. Because when Rump killed him, that was Rump's redemption and what made Rump a hero in their words.

I haven't seen the last 3 episodes but I'm still positive new Dark One Emma is the finale. As much as the writers cater to the fanatics by incessantly yapping about Woegina and Emma, onscreen, the real one-not the one running in their air and coke filled heads, it was always Emma and Rump as 2 sides of the same coin. Rump started out his whole journey from a desire to protect his kid and greater good too. It's the exact same stuff we saw in 3b. Dark Emma is just the new Empire State of Mind-NYC is the bestest Emma. Emma being the one person standing in Zelena's way with the lightest magic is the same as Emma being the only person standing in villains' happy endings way. Which means the real "shocking" target is Woegina the real Savior Saint Victim. Snow even got to do the darkest! thing ever again. And they'll flip the finale where 3B was Emma and Hook's thing with Woegina's poor sad fate as the semi-cliffhanger, this time it'll be Robin and Woegina's adventure and Emma with the cliffhanger. But no worries! Woegina will not be the life ruiner-they have to keep one thing constant. So it'll be dumb ass Emma ruining her own life. Oh and I bet Rump seemingly gets his happy ending too with some grand Rumbelle moment that's overshadowed by some screwup of his. Maybe renewing vows or pregnant Belle in his fake happy world. Since there hasn't been a new billion dollar Disney cartoon out, we won't get an Elsa-esque cliffhanger. Unless we see a sonogram of Rumbelle's fetus and its shaped like a snowman and Belle calls it Olaf.

I figured it was because Emma was the "lightest" fetus around was what got her pegged as the savior. And she's only the lightest because she got double the lightness and none of the darkness through this dumb egg story. That was my take on it.

Portal jumping is a bad comparison for Woegina vs Rump. Rump not jumping after Bae wasn't literally about portal jumping. It was about overcoming his biggest issue, being a coward and giving up the power that he thought fixed it. He didn't do it then but he fixed it with the murder suicide Pan thing. He also did it a second time when he gave up the dagger to Zelena to save Bae. Woegina's equivalent to that was when Emma was leaving town and Henry to her and that still wasn't enough for poor poor Woegina. Her biggest thing was she wouldn't give up her revenge. It took a dead Henry by her poisoned turnover and that still wasn't enough. Remember S2 when she tried to massacre the town? So yeah let's not pretend Woegina is parent of the year either. She chose her wants over Henry time and time again push comes to shove, just like Rump did with Bae. So Woegina not giving up her revenge for Henry is equivalent to Rump not giving up his power for Bae. They eventually "fixed" it. I find Rump more palatable simply because he's a villain treated like a villain. Woegina is automatic trash because she's a villain treated like a Mary Sue victimized heroine. She's Vampire Diaries Elena x100 in the negative. There was this one line in VD where someone went the whole world can die but all that matters is saving Elena right? Everyone running around on that show trying to save Elena's life is like everyone running around on Once trying to get Woegina the happy ending she deserves. Her and no one else apparently. But at least on VD, those people were Elena's friends and lovers. Once is so effed up, they have Woegina's victims running around like chickens with their heads cut off to make her happy. AND they still pretend that she is the loneliest most victimized person ever. I don't see anybody else trying to get Rump his happy ending but Rump himself. Is anybody helping Hook get his? Belle? Will? Snow? Pongo? Everybody else has to fly solo apparently.

I thought Emma was pissed for 2 reasons. One, she now blames them for why she's the "savior" and she hates that stuff. Two, her old insecurity is kicking up again and this just proves to her that they wouldn't love her if she wasn't the savior and made of lightness. I don't think she would be all that judgmental with the babynapping thing on its own. But I could be giving the writers too much credit. Onscreen that's what it tells me. When I see A&E's crack infused interviews they always sound like "OMG Snowing are the most evil to ever evil." I want to send them the bumper sticker "Crack kills!"

I think the main big reason why Wonderland tanked was because it was on Thursdays. Put S2 and on Once on there and it wouldn't do significantly better either. S1 wouldn't have been as big a hit either. Once's timeslot is easily the easiest in the business. They only have football to contend with in the fall and it's positioned as the counter programming to football. Spring is wide open for them and they don't even have to deal with the big cable juggernauts in Walking Dead and Game of Thrones. Here, people want to know what those ratings really mean? I've linked to an article revealing the ad rates for each show. Interesting points? Castle whose demos are lower than Once's command a slightly higher price. SHIELD's ratings are slammed but it too commands a higher rate. People keep saying Once is ABC's 4th strongest show but a quick glance tells me that in terms of ad rates it's 7th or 8th. http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/tv-ad-prices-football-walking-dead-big-bang-theory-blacklist-top-the-list-1201314484/ I've seen talk where people claim Once's Frozen arc will keep the season average high or ok for them on par with S3 but ad rates are set in May at the upfronts. It's based on predicting next season which means the spring or the tail end of the season is a better indicator as a predictor. This is not to say Once is in any danger of getting cancelled but just to put things in perspective.

That's all due to the boom of cable tv. That's where all the so-called "prestige" projects, critically acclaimed, or A-listers pet projects are. Even the most popular shows are now on cable, see Walking Dead. You don't get that on network, outside of comedies. Or just look at the awards show to see the industry's darlings. It's something like 80% cable stuff nominated to network. In a few years, the online shows will take off too. Network is a dinosaur. I honestly don't see Robert sticking around. He's clearly checked out. I see it in his interactions with the trio vs Ingrid. The directing thing might be the only incentive to Robert. Jen said in an interview she's getting ready to direct her first feature with Anthony Tambakis. Is that possible during the hiatus? That's the only thing that gives me pause. I know Robert did it last year with Barney but he has way a lighter filming schedule than she does. Anyway Once can "survive" one or 2 or even all of them leaving. They just need a reboot or do another spin-off. A 1.0 in 18-49 demos, which is what Wonderland was getting, won't hack it on Thursdays but maybe they'll take it for Sundays.

Yes but they have a built in convenient plot point-since Emma didn't stab Rump, all the rules are out the window. Not that they follow their own rules in general anyway, see Snow casting the Dark Curse, but they can stamp a new name on it, call it a day and head to the golf course. But I'm not convinced Emma is going to be the main "villain" so there's bound to be another one. I would laugh if it's Jafar and I think Rump is still one. Yeah but Rump wanted to cleave himself from the dagger and go out into the real world with his magic intact. So somehow cleaving himself from the dagger would make his magic work in LWM?

Well there's also practical considerations. That scene took what 10 plus hours to film and child labor laws. Not to mention the writers would have to think pretty hard, something we all know they don't like to do, so that it won't look like Henry would throw Emma under the bus for Woegina. Ok there's 2 or so pictures in that album with a pretty good shot of the dagger. Tried zooming in but it looks blank to me. Anybody with better photo editing skills or eyes out there? Maybe the last shot is of the dagger with the new name Emma on it. I have a feeling that if Emma is the new Dark One, Rump's redemption could come via taking back the Dark One curse to save everyone else and Emma. He's had it for 300 or so years and would be in better control.

Not sure if this goes here but Jen Morrison had a Q&A session at Fan Expo Vancouver and I thought this answer about Emma's magic and Elsa was interesting. http://ooc-charming-david.tumblr.com/post/115460165987/jennifer-morrison-on-emmas-magic-and-elsa I remember thinking Emma was being a bit flamboyant and weird looking when she was doing magic in the Hook/Ursula episode, saving August, and this now makes sense. It does look like an awkward imitation of Elsa. How sad is it that an actress has to make up an entire fanfic in her head to act cause she has nothing else to work with? Or is this all offscreensville stuff?

Well not really. Emma has the strongest magic outside of the Sorcerer and Rump Dark One's magic and his doesn't work outside of the town line while hers does. If she gets to keep hers and the Dark One's as well, it'd be the apocalypse. There's also that darkest heart thing going around. I think she's actually the worst person to be the DO. Maybe a Stop Emma mission would be better than Save Emma. No because Robert should be credited with the Imp personality. A&E gave him free rein to create it and I don't think they would give that same privilege to JMo. Which means they'll fully be in charge and we all know the standards we should expect on that count. It's too bad we can't see for sure if there's another name on that dagger in the pictures.

Well I speculated a few pages back that a Dark One Emma could come about without stabbing Rump. This also gives them the freedom to do what they love most, make up shit as they go along. Since Emma didn't stab Rump, they'll just say the normal rules we've seen don't apply. New method, new rules to fit new plot. She might not even be a Dark One with the curse but just have its powers. I'm hoping Dark Emma gets sucked into that dead undead Dark One vault and it's filled with a gaggle of ex-Dark One'ers living the good life, smoking some ganja. And in a ripoff of Buffy we find out that this is why Rump is so lame now, he was loving it down there in the vault and Emma will too. They're just bitter they got "saved." I'm also betting this is Rump's "grand plan." Not going to lie, it'd be kind of neat that he made her the "savior" and the Dark One because I'm tired of this savior crap. Do the writers not remember that the savior stuff is fake and it's all Rump? I'm also going to bet Rump isn't powerless either. Maybe he worked it so Emma gets the dark one's magic and he gets her magic.

Why is everyone surprised? This show is called Once Upon Mary Sue Woegina Fanfiction no? Man watching that video all I could think of was poor poor Woegina. How dare someone try to steal her noble thunder? Victimized yet again by those evil Charmings who try to keep her all evil instead of letting her be good. How will our plucky biggest victim ever heroine ever cope? Stay tuned for S5 folks!

What if Emma is the Dark One and that scene is it. I don't think she stabs Rump but remember when Cora was saying if Rump had died outside of the town line from Hook's poison his power would just go off into the air or something like that? Rump could've successfully cleaved himself from the dagger and the curse, maybe by the author rewriting something and now the curse is just floating around waiting to go into someone and since Emma has the heart with the darkest potential or some such nonsense she's it. But I've said this before and they need to address this crap, if Snowing got rid of Emma's darkness why the hell are they so worried about her darkness then and why did Chernabog still pick her out?

But she would only get the fake dagger if that were the case.

I was thinking that. Having some music would save us from their words. I honestly think even a Katy Perry song would have more emotional depth and less cheese. I do wonder why they skimp out on the music. Half of the attraction of Disney films is the soundtrack. I don't want a full blown musical in the vein of Galavant but they could have some real songs incorporated into the show.

Yeah Adam's been known to blatantly lie. Remember the whole Graham debacle? Some ET beat writer said the writers told them, that they shot a scene in the S1 finale where Emma called Woegina out on killing Graham but it was cut. And Adam recently said never happened, Emma's a dumb ass who thinks Graham died of a heart attack. They labeled the whole thing "mis-quoted." How do the hell do you misquote something of that magnitude. It either happened or didn't. Come to think of it, they should never ever mention Graham again, no matter how famous JD gets. Everything involving Graham is so messed up. I'm not sure why they are so hell bent on destroying Snow. Did Ginny piss them off or something? And what's with the ugly dress kid Emma's wearing? It looks like a cheap Walmart Halloween costume. Being forced to wear that monstrosity probably drove her to darkness.

The convention runners. The actors get paid upfront to show up and do whatever by the convention. The convention recoup those costs and makes a profit by charging the attendees.

I could see them thinking making Emma the Dark One for like 2 episodes would be totally cool and shocking. So it's not that big of a deal. The weird thing is Rump possibly dying and Emma as Dark One should be the last scene of the season and I think any idiot could see that over Henry and Jafar. Jafar ain't exactly Frozen here and the less said about Henry the better. Snow's an idiot and this whole author-Omen plot is too. How I'd like to be a fly on that wall when Ginny got the script.

I miss Ingrid. Wasn't it a carbon copy of what young Emma had on before she ran away from Ingrid? Was the promo for 4x16 the first time they've used a song in the promo? I thought it was effective but I wonder why they decided to go there. I don't know the song and I don't who sang it but was it some ABC nepotism at play or something? Also I think this show could do with a few music montages CW style. I get tired of them over there but I feel like a lot of things on this show would be tighter if they employed that technique seeing as how they have 10 million characters.

There's some random clips on youtube. The Evil Queen reminds me a bit of Samantha's mom on Bewitched. I like her way better in the little bit I saw, than Once's version. Man this is gold. I think it might be better written than Once.