LizaD

I'm just looking through the filming pictures. Did they really just slap a black trench coat on "Black Swan" and call it a day? Seriously? I thought they got their act together over the summer with the black feathery hood thing but obviously this crew is "one and done" in every aspect. The makeup still looks like a 5 year kid decided he wanted to be a ghost for Halloween 3 minutes before he went out trick or treating. I also see they're actually taking this Black Swan thing literally. She's going to be in black the whole time isn't she? If that's what they're going for, they should've done the opposite. Give her black hair and some white dresses. That would still be jarring, keeping in theme with the white and black stuff and she would look a whole lot better. Then they can go to town at the $99 David's Bridal sale instead of taxing their enormous creativity and coming up with......a black trench coat.

But haven't they been emphasizing the "completely brand new villain" thing? The "pick up where we left off" stuff is actually the flashbacks and all out Dark Emma is current time? Yeah that's right up their alley. Or they could do what Lost did with Desmond with all those flash-whatever he had. He could go forward, back to the past, sideways etc. They weren't linear. So that could be what they meant by Camelot is parallel, past, current, future or whatever was the exact quote. And Merlin is totally "Jacob."

The filming picture that's labeled Lana, doesn't look like her to me. That looks like Joana Metrass, Guinevere. I'm hoping everyone gets sucked to wherever Emma is and Woegina the black hole can stay behind in Storybrooke and be the savior with her 2 props, Robin and Zelena.

Well Robert said he'll still have "trickery" about him whatever that means. I just don't think Robert would care to play a straight up good guy. Not on this show at least where good guy=nothing more than a prop. He also made a comment some interviewer who said since Rump isn't attached to the DO anymore and Robert interjected with says who? that's an assumption. So Rump could still be attached to the DO in some way. That might explain the Emma and Rump and I'm guessing Merida filming together from the first day.

Those table interviews at comic-con are, a lot of them are just fans slash big bloggers. The usual ET industry people get the press room. But I get the point Camera. I'm over the "relationships." They're all crappy and boring at this point. I rather know the big ass plot holes stuff that bugs me. Like how did they go from "only Merlin can tether the darkness" to Emma doing it like its no big deal? To be fair I don't think A&E were pandering to just fans. They were pandering to their own need to jack off to some canonization of the most perfect Saint Victim to haver existed, every other episode. They've been throwing all sorts of characters and stories into that black hole Mary Sue since S2, lest we forget Snow's diner speech.

Well damn. Wrong is wrong. They're going to piss off some hardcore already bitter fanbase with that trolling though. So why the hell throw Merida randomly in the premiere? On top of Camelot? These bozos.

I think they're both equally freaky considering the "changing her parents" is changing it to Zelena and Robin Hood, but one is changing canon, the other is expanding canon into their own freaky soap opera fanfiction which is what they've been doing all along. Semantics? Yeah but it'd be a weird coincidence to have Rump's mom casting call be pretty close to a Merida description and put those 2 women onscreen at the same time too. Unless they're twins or sisters? I just don't think future Zelena and Robin's kid who happens to be Merida, interacting with peasant Rump and normal looking Emma in some weird verse EF makes any sense. Rump's mom at this point doesn't make a lot of sense either but at least there's that DO common thread between Rump and Emma now. Well let's not forget Disney sent in their people for Frozen. I'm not sure they're going to bother for Brave.

Why do people think Merida is Zelena's kid? The red hair and archery is pretty flimsy. Zelena's not Scottish nor is Robin. Besides Merida's parents were featured in the movie. I don't think they've blatantly changed things like that with Disney property. They fill in the unknown stuff with their own crap but not outright change characters. I thought it'd be obvious Merida=Rump's mom. The casting call, A&E said we'll see what they're doing with Rump's mom in the premiere, there was that first day filming with peasant Rump, mystery female guest and Emma and they made Rump Scottish in S3. But while I can sorta see her with Peter Pan, Merida hooking up with Malcom is pretty hard to swallow. I also still maintain that Merida was the first DO and she offered herself up as sacrifice. Does Robert saying Gold's not doing much and in a coma mean we'll get an AU world with all the ex-DO's interacting? Rump won't know what his mom looks like will he? It'll be Dark Ones Anonymous.

I think it's Rump's mom who's also the OG Dark One. It could be a weird quasi "world" where the good part of the person goes to and that's why Rump is in his peasant clothes and why Emma looks normal.

Full circle would be Rump being the savior wouldn't it? He was the DO we were introduced to and he was the one that made Emma the "savior" before all the retcons anyway. Or it'll be Zelena and Robin's baby. I hope it is just for the ridiculous factor. And then we'll find out Zelena stole Woegina's egg and implanted herself with Woegina and Robin's zygote. Pretty sure that's been a soap opera story and we all know they steal all their stories from them.

I think Emma fares pretty well by sharing her arcs with Rump. She got quality time with Pan and Neverland issues on par with him. Ingrid pretty much split her time evenly between Rump/Emma and the Frozen crew. They both split Neal pretty evenly too. It just doesn't seem that way because Emma doesn't end up saving the day even in her arcs but it's not like Rump takes over in that arena either. She never gets the "climax" of the arcs true but her and Rump are just about even in the story stakes. Compare that to Snow getting to "share" her stories, and I use that word very loosely, with the black hole of suck and it's a world of difference. I found this old quote of Robert's and I'm giving all the credit to him and not the writers. http://www.ew.com/article/2012/10/17/robert-carlyle-rumpelstiltskin

I think it will depend on if Robert stays or not. If not I'm sure they'll save his redemption for the finale where he'll go out in a big sacrifice. If he stays I'm not sure where they can take Rump. At this point I have to guess he's told them sayonara which is why we're getting the DO story. I still think Rump is going to be the one that beats the DO. I can see him getting DO'ed again at the end of 5A to save Emma and close out that arc and then he beats it out right in 5B. You know they love their full circle thing and I'm positive they're going to let Rump be the one to beat the DO once and for all. That's his thing. Or maybe Rump and Emma can halve the DO and each get a share ala Snowing's heart. Wait a sec, why can't they "tether" the DO to everyone in the universe so that divided by a billion fairy tale people, it's so diluted it won't add anything extra dark to the inherent darkness of everyone? Why did Merlin have to concentrate it in just 1 person? Like Snowing, they could've spread Emma's darkness around instead of just that 1 poor innocent egg baby. Sharing is caring!

This show was marketed as a family show from the beginning and no season was more family friendly than S1. S1 had kid hero Henry front and center in every episode and driving major plots, Hansel and Gretel, kid Bae, kid Snow and Grace/Paige that all carried episodes and plot. The tip toeing around issues and backtracking only applies to their Mary Sue Woegina fanfiction. I mean I don't think they were tip toeing around the fact that Snow and Charming kidnapped a baby and ruined her life or the multiple times of red-lettering Snow as a murderer onscreen. I doubt parents would want to explain that one to their 5 year daughter playing with Disney princesses dolls on what a murderer is and why Snow White is one. That poster is such a blatant rip off of Black Swan, I'm sure somebody could sue if they wanted to. Don't think Disney put out that movie.

Yes but the probability of a "good" story with these writers is what a .0001%? Hoping for a good costume is much much more likely and possible. I don't bother hoping for a good story anymore. Just a bit of entertainment will do and good costuming helps in that regard. I think that's why Cruella worked a million times better than Ursula ever did and that was just from pictures alone. And I don't think Hook would have ever worked as well if he had been in modern jeans and leather jacket the entire time.I don't want the boobage but you can be flamboyant without it. Or at least not boring. I don't think bandit Snow's outfits were boring and she wasn't even evil nor did it come with boobage. There's just this whole fantastical, ridiculous fairy tale aspect that's missing from the outfit. Why make her the DO then? It should change a whole lot. Before and after DO Rump was wholly different. We saw glimpses of real Rump peeking through and his motivations stayed true to form but his outward appearance was completely different.Also didn't JMo say something like she was building up DO Emma in her head to be different and clothes were a part of that. Something like Emma's always picked out simple clothes and now she'll be more ostentatious? Did she get her wires crossed? Or is that her definition of it?

I like the outfit in concept. 1. It's a variation, the poor man's version, of Rump's costume but without the benefit of the crazy face and body makeup or textural details of his 2. It's a variation of Emma's normal clothes of jeans and leather jacket 3. It's not some fancy ballgown showcasing the evil cleavage-the lowest hanging fruit in my opinion But it is a bit boring and lacking in creativity. I think the bare bones are there for something to build on. Maybe get rid of the sleeves, add in some color and texture or ornamentation. I do like the trailing fabric in the diner picture. Also I never noticed JMo is super pale before but the starkness of the all black outfit does her no favors. She looks like a dead Snow White. The accompanying article and spoilers are even more boring than the DO outfit. It's so boring I've got nothing to snark on.

I'm more interested in Merlin, now that there's a power void where Rump used to be. When you have the most powerful being Sorcerer/Merlin and Emma now souped up on the DO's magic in addition to her own, everything and everyone else is going to look like child's play. That's probably going to end up to be a big problem with any plot they come up with now though. I guess they can give Arthur and the rest of the Camelot crew some strong magic too. Is Blair Underwood still on Shield? He'd be a good Merlin and a reasonable get for them compared to Idris Elba.

How much damage is "Dark" Emma gonna be able to do in 3 days? Cause you know an entire half-season usually lasts a couple of days max for Once. Maybe the "picking up right where they left off" scene is a flashback? Jen herself said they had something for SDCC in one of the morning shows she went on, to hawk the finale. I'm guessing it's like the quick promo of Hook we got for SDCC for S2 or the one of Ariel for S3. They don't get too fancy with these. They're so lazy. This takes away the complexity and interesting factor for Rump's character. It's not even Rump anymore, but some dark goo character. I wonder how Robert feels about that. But it had to be obvious that's where they were going when they made the thing a separate entity and Rump's heart turned white. This is probably Robert's exit storyline and Rump's going to be the one that ends up destroying DO for Emma/town as his Last Grand Sacrifice.

But I thought Emma's darkness cloud had the potential to be the most evilest to evil ever. They got rid of her darkness cloud and Chernabog still went after her. Like it's so dark, even after they got rid of all the potential darkness she's still the darkest! Yeah that's Once logic right there for you. Which reminds me, how was it Mal was darker than Cruella so that Chernabog went after her and not Cruella? Maybe Rump misinterpreted Chernabog's darkness meter and he just likes chasing after blondes. I don't think True Love destroys that goo. It would just be removed from the person, freeing the goo to kill off the entire world and then they would have to attach it to someone else again. Also they're not going to bother explaining how Rumbelle's true love kiss almost worked but they never bothered trying it again are they?

I'm betting Rump's mom was the original human Merlin tethered the DO to. If her casting call is accurate she probably volunteered ala Emma cause we know this show loves their parallels. If not, then Merlin the big baddie screwed Rump's family over. And that probably makes Merlin, Snow's great great great grandaddy, the family line where all evil originated from.

I don't remember the exact lines but I thought it went something like Merlin was fighting the darkness and it was about to destroy the entire universe and the only thing he could do was tether it to a human soul. Maybe that's a hint that Merlin isn't human and lacks a soul? But then the Apprentice goes, find Merlin cause he's the only one that can destroy it. So in the centuries while Rump was wreaking havoc as the DO, Merlin finally found a way to destroy it cause he couldn't before. And if the Apprentice knew all this, that only Merlin could tether it to a human soul or destroy it, why did he think the hat had a chance to contain it? And if he could destroy it why hasn't he gone after it? Why does the current hapless crew need to go after his butt when he's the most powerful being introduced so far? He can create portals to LWM, see the future, create that hat that sucks up everything magical but his apprentice needed to make a deal with Ingrid? They could've just ripped the hat out of her hands. Also if he's all powerful enough to be able to destroy the DO, why did he lose the dagger in the first place and let it go to some random person repeatedly? It doesn't make a lick of sense unless it's gone exactly the way he wants it to go. Of course this show thrives on not making sense so I guess Merlin could be the most powerful AND utterly useless and stupid. As for the original recipe DO, I'll take my guess to the spoiler thread.

But I think this defeats the purpose of making Emma the DO. And if I were the actress I'd call foul if my character got crowned DO and didn't get to do anything different. We saw that "Emma struggling" version of it already in 4B and it wasn't the least bit entertaining. Now I'm not saying all out evil Emma is guaranteed to be fun viewing either but I rather see Evil Emma at least having fun onscreen than walk around with that constant gloom and doom face of hers. She's had it for like 4 seasons. The thought of Emma smiling and not giving a single fuck is all I want from these clowns and about the best you could hope for. Kind of like what Snow got to do in Heart of Darkness or 4x22. That's where my mind went when I saw the scene. Since this show seems to be obsessed with fate and prophesies, I'm also thinking Emma got stuck in yet another prophesy involving the DO stuff and Merlin knows this and has been manipulating events to end up at this point ala Rump in S1. And if it's not Merlin it's someone else. I know we got a fake "Sword in the Stone" moment with Snow and Charming already but I can see their so-called original take being that the dagger is the real "Sword in the Stone."

That power wasn't part of the Dark One's power. It was a Rump acquired power from the seer he killed. But Rump was still shady even when he was outside the town. He just didn't have the magic powers to go along with the shadiness. The dark goo entity never left him. Emma does have magic outside Storybrooke and she'd still be dark so that's more dangerous than Rump. Yeah they can basically do or say anything at this point. Not that prior established rules have ever stopped them from doing whatever they want to before either. I'm positive that dagger won't work on Emma. It'd be a non-starter of a story if it did. Merlin allegedly tethered the DO to some other schlub and created the dagger so that he could control it. But Emma tethered DO to herself so that could negate the dagger. But this begs the question, how in the hell did the all powerful Merlin lose the dagger in the first place? He's either really really stupid or the big baddie himself.

I think for this to be true, you'd have Sansa running around after Roose/Ramsey, begging for their love and friendship and Sansa saying she is just as bad as those 2. Sansa talking smack to Ramsey would be seen as, "Damn what a bitch. No wonder Ramsey is so mean when no one is nice to him." GoT presents the heroes as true heroes but that those heroic attributes can be one's downfall. Some of those heroic attributes are just down right dumb and the situations are too complex for that kind of rigidity in right vs wrong. Once doesn't do that. They present stuff like "heroes don't kill or lie or do anything but be doormats. If they don't follow these rules they are THE EVIL." While Once presents sacrificing yourself and an entire realm of people to save the one person who wanted to kill them all as righteous and heroic, on GoT those "heroes" would all be dead ala the Starks. In GoT's world, that would be the wrong and stupid move diots and that's why you're now dead. Snow killing Cora was bad and evil and wrong and made her the same as all the villains but on GoT that would be seen as a smart and necessary move. When Dany watch her husband kill her brother, burn the witch, or let her dragons go after the slave master, those moments were all "You go girl! What a bad ass!" Or at the very least, it allows room for debate. On Once, the heroes would get ripped to shreds for that and they've already gotten that for much less, no question, no debate, just a simple black and white presentation of heroes are evil and villains are victims. Snow and Charming would be a million times better treated as characters if they were Ned and Catelyn, dead corpses and all. Can you imagine Ned and Catelyn licking the Lannisters/Boltons/Frey's asses after the Red Wedding and they didn't die, only Robb and Talisa or the opposite if Ned/Catelyn died and Rob and Talisa survived and ran around sacrificing their kingdom to save those people? That would be the closest equivalent story if GoT was Once.

I'll take my reply to Once vs other stories thread but I don't think this is true at all. The "heroes" on Once should wish they were given the "Starks" treatment, dead ones and Sansa included. At least those characters have integrity and dignity even if they are stupid at times. I'm guessing Rump's mom is going to have history with Merlin and the flashbacks are with him and baby Rump. Did they specify she would only be in flashbacks? If not she could still be alive.

Why? I'm not seeing the connection. Morgan is generally best known for being a powerful fae that was Merlin's apprentice and Arthur's adversary. And however they want to do their own crappy "original" take on that, that's not a role Emma can fill that I can see. Arthur and Gwen are for sure Snow's era seeing as how Lancelot was hanging out with them. In fact Woegina is probably filling the role of "Morgan." I can see Arthur being enemies with both her and Snowing and then they'll have to go begging him for help to find Merlin. A&G do need connections to the main cast after all. Maybe Gwen is another Snow BFF. Snow was probably head cheerleader in telling Gwen to cheat on Arthur. They can also go with Madam Mim instead who was in Disney's Sword. I'm convinced they have another big "mystery" character up their sleeves that they don't need a casting call for ala Elizabeth Mitchell. Most likely where the original Dark Goo came from if they're really not going with Merlin as the big bad. I don't think there needs to be an aging explanation for Merlin who's immortal and pre-dates Rump. We know he was active while everyone was in stasis, since he was able to send his dumb apprentice to the real world to tell Lily the truth about Snowing's evilness.