LizaD

And freeing a mass murderer is an action that is villainous. I can't think of a single "hero", outside of Once, that intentionally freed a villain who was vowing to wreak more havoc with her dying breath, go free and clear. Because that is not an action of a hero, but a villain. Usually it's other villains that free another villain. If anything that makes Snow a bigger moron. How exactly was she proposing to keep Woegina in check? Jail? No. Taking away her magic? Nope. She let Woegina swan off to go continue her reign of terror in her kingdom. What exactly in Woegina's execution speech made Snow think that she was going to all of a sudden stop her killing sprees? Meanwhile she and Charming thought they had a right to King George's kingdom. She hooked up with Cinderella to jail Rump for something much less than what Woegina did, as far as she knew. All Rump wanted was to keep the terms of his deal and that was deserving of magic-containing jail. Killing entire villages gives you a get out of execution card. Got it. Why does this matter? Woegina was racking up an impressive body count regardless of the reason and Snow let her go. Every single one of Woegina's attempt to get at Snow was never confined to just Snow, it was always something that took out other people and Snow knew this. See the village, see Graham and Ariel, see the curse. If anything it makes Snow that much worse. The former just makes her a crappy ruler, the latter makes her a crappy person on top of a crappy ruler. She should've stood up for all those people that died protecting her worthless ass. Instead she protects their killer. The fact is Snow viewed them as collateral too, no different from how Woegina saw them. Snow not giving a damn about the hordes of people that died on her account is a move from the villain's book.

Snow did create the situation and was the one in control. Woegina was captured and about to be executed and Snow's dumb ass saved her even though Woegina on death row was still promising revenge and death. It wasn't like she was conning Snow and pretending to be reformed. If someone broke a mass murderer out of jail, they would be named accomplice which is what Snow was. It's not exactly the same as intending to kill masses of people yourself but knowingly freeing a person that has already killed masses of people and still intend on killing more? Yeah no breaks from me. Snow wasn't concerned about anybody's life in the forest.

Not from lack of trying though. The writers' intent was clearly to justify and woobify Cora, even if not everyone bought their story. Usually there are 2 ways to justify a villain: a, the sob story and b, the good guys are just as bad and screwed the baddie over and is therefore repsonsible for their villainy. Cora got option b while Zelena and Ingrid got option a. Some get both and then some. Really Pan stands alone in the evil and owns it category, not Cora. He got neither of those options. I suspect even if they bring back Pan, he won't be ruined like Cora was because the writers aren't interested in redeeming the Rump family on the backs of anyone. I would argue that Ingrid wasn't even a villain. I think they were going for a "what Elsa would look like if not for Anna" thing. A liitle crazy and a lot of lost but not really villainous. Really Mitchell was harder on her character in terms of villainy than what actually showed up onscreen. Her body count is 1, by accident. I think Snow and Charming have a higher body count. Snow was also ready to let everyone die to save her precious Woegina so I don't consider that too far off from what Ingrid wanted, which was Emma and Elsa and screw everyone else.

I'm always confused as hell that some writers always try their hardest to woobify villains. They seem to think complicated and layers mean "but they're just really a sad kitty that wants love." It'so bizarre considering that the reason villains got popular in the first place was because they're villains, not because they're a sad kitty! It would be like if chocolate was the best selling ice cream in your shop, you got rid of it to sell vanilla because chocolate was popular. How does that make any lick of sense? I do think this is where the split between general audience vs. onliners come in. The general public is more what the hell? While the onliners embrace it because what they usually want for their fave characters is to be the "Mary Sue" or the stuff fanfiction is made of. To bad for the writers, the general public makes up the majority of their audience, not the ones that tweet at them every hour. I'm not convinced that static characters can't be built for long term either. Change and growth doesn't automatically equal entertainment. As an example House managed to last 8 seasons with like half an inch of "growth" in all that time and he was the one leading the whole show. In an ensemble cast with built in major guest stars in the premise, it should be easy enough to do.

That looks like a glossy network promo that will has nothing to do with actual show content. Or just like 3B where it was set up for Emma to be the "target" she was actually just a red herring and Woegina was the one the story focused on. It looks like the same, audience will think Emma is the target but the twist will be it's Woegina all along. I could be wrong but it seemed like JM always seem to be out of Vancouver alot for that promo to be sincere. If not, I hope its an evil twin switcheroo soapy story. Evil Gemma can go around town wreaking havoc and bitchslapping the dumbos obsessed with some author.

Ratings matter for the network's business. Why did the Big Bang Theory big stars command such a huge raise to make them the most highly paid actors? Their single most powerful negotiating tool is the ratings. The Big Bang Theory also has less of a LOUD social presence than Once but which show is more valuable in all ways and then some. To make it more comparable, does anybody think Lana is going to be able to command or negotiate a huge pay raise with the ABC big brass compared to Ellen Pompeo who has less of a loud online fanbase? No way. Why does the NFL practically run the TV and advertising industry? One word and one metric only, ratings. I also think Once fans tend to overestimate Once's online "power" or presence. Here's the top 10 tweeted tv series, of which Once doesn't crack. Meanwhile PLL with a way smaller audience size is #3. Social media is most powerful when it's backed up by ratings, the metric that does matter, like Walking Dead or Game of Thrones or something like Sharknado. https://blog.twitter.com/2014/year-on-twitter-social-tv As for what the ratings says about characters' or actors' popularity? Diddly squat. 2B/3B ratings were lower than 2A/3A. The "Bs" of the seasons were focused on Woegina and a side of Snow while the "As" focused on Emma and Rump. The fall seasons have football to deal with. People like to use excuses like people watch less tv in spring which is untrue. If it was true, ratings for all tv shows would be lower in the spring across the board. I can say Walking Dead is a ratings juggernaut fall or spring. Game of Thrones only air in the spring. If you average the character centrics episode I'm sure no one character is significantly higher or lower than any others.

Of course ratings matter, in all the ways that count. But I'll take the reply to ratings thread. For what's relevant for this thread is the writers clearly don't give a flying flip over ratings or social media fanbase if if didn't align with their agenda anyway. Case? Coming out of S1 the biggest social media chatter centered around Rumbelle, Rump and Belle. If having a loud rabid social media presence really mattered, this would be Once Upon a Rumbelle with new leading lady Belle. The opposite happened no? They were dismantled starting in 2B and have never been fixed in the way that their online fandom wants it to be fixed nor has Belle ever had a huge presence on the show in the way that even comes near her online presence. Adam and Eddy even pointed out themselves that the Rumbelle wedding dance got the biggest audience reaction for the S4 premiere, bigger than Frozen, and yet I think the writers had them spend a total of 10 minutes sharing screentime the entire 4A. As for how little onliners matter? Rumbelle got the biggest reaction of their sample audience, but show me anyone who thinks that the S1 like ratings number for 4A premiere isn't directly attributed to Frozen. It's a moot point now because the writers have driven away a big portion of that fandom and all that's left are probably the most obsessed Rumbellers. Now I think Hook and Captain Swan have a bigger social media presence than anything Woegina related. For real numbers? Were they not the most tweeted/tumblr/Facebook out of Once? Like Rumbelle, I don't see the writers making the show revolve around them at all nor are they going to crown Hook their new Gary Stu leading man. Yeah online. So maybe that says something about the teeny tiny subsection of the public that participates online or hardcore fans but nothing about the public. Angel got his own show, not Spike. I don't think J.K. Rowling is hurting in anyway revolving the world of Harry Potter around Harry Potter and not Draco. I also don't think that franchise is even a tiny bit affected by the fact that Harry didn't up with Draco or Hermione didn't end up with Draco, as the onliners would have you believe. I honestly think if Adam and Eddy decided to off Woegina and center the show around Aurora it wouldn't all of a sudden get a 0.5 in the ratings. The draw of Once is mashup of fairytales. It depends on the writers, not public. How do you explain the billion dollar entities that revolve around comic book superheroes? I'm not saying the villains don't play a part in the superheroes stories but they don't drive marketing, the superheroes good guys drive it. So yeah villain types are popular but the most popular or more popular than heroes? Nope, again goes back to what the writers do with their characters.

Rump has always been self-aware and is still self-aware even without Jane's writing though. In the door conversation with Emma, he practically all but says outright he's still a bad guy who will always do the wrong thing. He has never claimed to be right or good, even with Hook or Zelena, both of which wronged him. At one point he tells Ingrid he's created a bunch of monsters, taking undue credit in my opinion. He says straight out that he's going to betray Emma even though technically he never lied to her. I'm not sure who wrote those episodes but it wasn't Jane. Adam and Eddy also have never shied away from calling Rump out as being wrong. The story with Belle and the dagger being an example. They even said it's something that Belle has to forgive Rump for. You know if it was Woegina, Belle would be called life ruiner. And Jane writing Bleeding Through says it all. That and Breaking Glass are the most offensive Woegina writing and propping on the show ever. No script Adam and Eddy have written themselves sticks out in my mind as being that heinous so I don't think it's a specific writer issue for being self-aware or lack of at all. It's a collective writers issue with the character of Woegina specifically and it starts from the top with the duo. It seriously boggles my mind that Rump trying to get his happy ending is wrong and evil but Woegina trying to get hers is all righteous and holy. On top of that, to compound the crime, everyone and their mom is obligated to help her get her happy ending and if they don't don't, they are evil. How can any of the writers not see this and get how screwed up it all is? So these writers are so bad they can't even write the easy stuff. I can't think of one death that has been moving or emotional on this show. Neal's should've been the easiest game in town considering the connections he had and yet it was like random soldier death. The other reason deaths are written, is that it's an easy way to get the characters left behind to change or start a new arc. Or to launch a new story. Pretty sure Neal's, Pan's, Zelena's, Ingrid's, Graham's etc deaths did squat. Why? And this problem only applies for the present day stuff. All the deaths in the fairybacks are used appropriately in the stereotypical melodramatic manner. I would say the fairybacks deaths are exaggerated even. Each death is treated like an "end of the world" scenario for the characters. I just really don't get it. That tells me the writers know what's up, they just choose not to.

Don't they do all the goodbyes at the town line? When that casting call for Agnes' character was posted the name said Autumn right? Well that made me think of the autumn fairies in Fantasia since they are doing the Socerer story. To be sure, googling it also gave me "Lily" of the valley Fairy also in Fantasia. Coincidence? I think Lily is the Black Fairy and she was the first one to go in that hat and probably knows who the Sorcerer is. She was reincarnated as the emo teen by the hat and that's why she has that star birthmark. Or she was playing a con and transformed herself into an emo teen.

I think Adam and Eddy love the fairybacks, moreso than the present stuff it seems like to me, for 2 reasons. 1. It's a holdover from Lost which I honestly don't get. They were not the show runners of that show, merely staff writers. Why are they so obsessed with all the shoutouts to Lost? You'd think writers would want to get out from under the shadow of something that was not originally theirs in the first place. It worked well for the first season because the fairybacks were unfolding a plot that was a mystery and began in the middle. That's no longer true which brings me to the 2nd reason why they are still in love with the fairybacks-they use it as a character moment and they happen to think they are character-driven writers writing a character-driven show. Maybe part of it has to do with liking all the fantasy stuff better that the fairybacks allow them to do but then why not just move the whole shebang back to the forest? Or open a permanent portal for free traveling through the worlds. Because they have to make every single relationship personal and all soap opera like. Contrary to Adam and Eddy's opinion it makes it less interesting. Rump as the mastermind or the root of everything would still work even if he never met so and so or never manipulated so and so. He's the most powerful sorcerer in their realm, using powerful people as pawns so that should have big ass consequences and touch a lot of other people without a direct relationship to Rump. It expands their world and would make it that much more believable with all the mashups they are doing. Instead it feels like they're in some rural town of 40 people who are all inbred, which actually might explain the stupidity running rampant there. They need to learn how to play the game of 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon instead of 1 degree. Yes and no. Woegina is their Mary Sue and that sucks majorly and is the single biggest turn-off for any show and accounts for a lot of the bad writing itself. The bad writing would still there but the lack of self-awareness only extends to Woegina. Look at Ingrid's story and tell me they don't know how to write a "redemption" story. Look at Anastasia on Wonderland. The problem is I don't think they are writing a redemption story at all because they don't think she needs one and that's a problem specific to her. They also know how to write a villain, see Pan and Jafar. Hell they are the ones that wrote that line for Elsa when she told Charming that he didn't have to thank her for anything because it was her fault in the first place. But when it comes to Woegina? It's "screw the evil Charmings for ditching Woegina on the side of the road when she save their butts" even though she put them in danger in the first place. See the difference? Or compare her to Rump. Besides Belle, is anyone going around town begging for his friendship? Did they have Emma console Rump when he lied to Belle by saying, "It's ok Rump, I lied to Henry too so see I'm just like you! You aren't so bad. Wanna be my best friend cause we're practically twinsies?" Have the writers ever said people were messed up for not kissing Rump's ass? Rump's relationship to the town or the Charmings is not that different from Woegina so what gives? That tells me it's a Woegina specific problem not a general bad writing problem. I'm not convinced that someone else will just take the Mary Sue crown in her place either. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. That's all procedurals are and they thrive for decades. Rump can be doing the same stuff over and over and with Carlyle's talent it could still be interesting. He could and should be like Reddington over on Blacklist. Carlyle is as talented as Spader in my book. I'm not going to claim the writers for Blacklist are so much more talented than the Once writers either, maybe a smidgen more but it works on there. I don't claim to know the entire Blacklist fandom but I have yet to see anyone wishing Red would turn into a woobie with an "epic" love story or that he be redeemed or complaining when he screws someone over just when he looked like he was on their team. And he is still a compelling character to watch.

After S1, this entire show has become about working through the Big 4's emotional obstacle, in the singular becuase the writers have slapped one label and problem on each character and called it a day. It just might not be aligned to what viewers think it is or it should be. It's not really about working towards a goal or quest here. Hence my complaint that there's zero plot on this show. Snow's emtional obstacle is thinking that she is a hero or wants to be a hero and learning differently. Her arc is realizing that she's not always good and can screw up horribly. Yes I know it's a bunch of bull and yes technically this arc was done when she told the world that her and her momma is as evil as Woegina and her momma. But this show defines "going back to the same well." Her future arcs will involve some brand new "shocking revelation" that she screwed someone over and can't be good all the time. Woegina's arc is overcoming the "villain" label that people have given to her, to rise above their oppression of her by using that label. Yeah yeah I know people might think this is a bunch of bull again but that's how the writers see it. They see her as a victim and others victimizing her by wrongly labeling her as a villain. Is anyone going to argue that that is not how the writers have framed it? Her future arcs till the series end will be about how some meanie wronged her, deemed her evil and she'll show them differently by being heroic instead. Her arc has never been about redemption. It's about Woegina realizing that she is good and heroic and not a villain like others mistakenly believe. This is why I think the so-called Author crap is a bit of a red-herring. It's not really about getting a happy ending and how to do so, it's about that hero and villain label. The keyword in "villains don't get happy endings" is the villain part not happy endings. Emma's obstacle is overcoming her own dumb insecurities and realizing that she is loved and to love herself. Again you can say this too has been fulfilled multiple times over, but sure enough come S5 or however long this gravy train lasts, it's going to rear its ugly head again and will keep on doing so. This is why "Snow and Emma's issues" will never be addressed. The writers don't see it as a Snow and Emma issue. They see it as an Emma issue only. Rump's obstacle is all about his fears of being a coward like daddy and insecurity about being unloveable. Those 2 things are what drives his drives his obsession with power but having power or trying to get it, is reinforcing his fears and insecurity. It's a weird feedback loop. That territory was covered by the end of 3A when he overcame both of those things but like everyone else he got a reset. I do think the character has more freedom than the other 3 because he also plays facilitator or mastermind and therefore drives a lot of the story without his issue taking center stage all the time. It means he always has something to do because he can be shoehorned in everywhere. The others struggle for a role when the spot light isn't on their emotional obstacle. The 2nd string characters all fit into one of the above mold more or less. Charming and Belle are obsessed with that hero label. Not so much in the present where they have nothing to do but in all their fairybacks it always comes back to that. The shiny villain of the moment all service the above. Cora and Zelena served Woegina and Snow's arc. Pan and sort of Ingrid served Emma's and Rump's. Of the 4 villains, only Ingrid's arc truly felt like the story was about Ingrid. It was a bit more even in that sometimes I think Emma and Rump were the vehicles to tell her story. I have no clue why this show can't be more than that like it was in S1 and why the characters can't be more. Or why there is no story to be found anywhere. The only explanation is, they suck.

I was looking at Agnes' twitter and I laughed when she tweeted her thanks to the official Wonderland twitter about her joining the show. Obviously she's never seen this show to get it mixed up with the spinoff. I don't know why I found it funny. As for her character, don't they usually officially announce casting when the actor is about to start filming or just started filming? I think that makes her part of Cruella's story. It could be her kid to give her that sob story. 3 episodes would be 4x18-4x20 to wrap up the evil trio leaving the last 2 to set up next season like usual. I'm convinced the "author" will be a very special cameo by Adam and/or Eddy.

Not counting S1, this show is character driven, not plot driven. It's just written so crappily. I feel like when people throw out "plot-driven" it's meant as an insult to the show or an explanation of why this show sucks so bad, but plot-driven shows could be good and character driven shows could be terrible. The 2 things aren't mutually exclusive either. You could have a plot-driven show with well written characters and vice versa. This show has neither post-S1 but it is still character driven like most soap operas are. And as with soap operas it is repetitive and tedious because the characters can't change or revert constantly. This is what happens when you have no plot but need to stretch the show out for years. S1 had a plot, how the curse came about and breaking it. Each episode with it's "procedural" of the week is plot driven and everything built up to the reveal of why the curse was cast and breaking it. I struggle to think what the plot for each subsequent seasons were. This is why the complaints about world building are so numerous. This is why there is no logic, no rules, and no linear build to the end of the plot. All the fairybacks and centrics are character-driven with zero plot. It's not good stuff mind you but it's for the character. Those million fairybacks of Snow vs Woegina? What plot did they have? None. It was all to showcase Snow and Woegina's relationship and them as individuals. The plot on this show literally doesn't matter.

That brunette is Snow's real kid. This could totally work. Mal had that curse for a while too so she could've rubbed her hair on that curse for her kid to break. Ok to be serious I think that Emma reveal is not a story line but just a scene that explains the Mal release going by the sentence. Note it says news to the audience but the characters aren't impacted. That just says to me that it's purpose is for the audience and not an ongoing story. Either Emma's convenient magic can't kill anything cause it's all bright and shiny and useless and that's why Mal is alive or she has the power to bring back the "not dead." It's convenient cause perpetual screw-up Emma can bring back any "dead" person the writers wanted back while conveniently leaving any dead person they don't want back still dead. Easy explanation without a lot of thought or plotting.

So taking these 3 pieces of information together: Emma releases Mal and that leads to a reveal about her, and Mal has history with Charming? That can only equal Emma is really Mal and Charming's kid. Now either Snow was the surrogate or there was a baby swap and Snow's kid is out there somewhere. Or since Snow is really evil, she faked the pregnancy to hang onto to Charming and stole Mal's kid. A fake pregnancy or baby swap is about the only soap story they haven't done yet. It's gotta be coming.

Doubtful. Rump can just curse Hook's ankles and voila, Emma will be useless again. But no worries, Woegina will be around to save the day because she will be the ultimate good when they rip out her soul. Cause then she'll feel things in her eyeballs like no one else can. I'm assuming the Apprentice told Ingrid when she told him that she was going to give up the hat to Rump. Or I like to think that Ingrid was playing him and didn't mind getting Hook out of her way.

There better damn well be more than 2 sides to that coin then. More like a million sides of the same coin. All those things listed could be applied to practically every single character on the show. Red, Cora, Neal, Zelena, Rump, Snow, Charming, Hook, Elsa, Ingrid, Pinocchio, Grace/Paige, Wendy, Cinderella, Roland etc. had crappy childhoods and/or lives, along with parental issues out the wazoo. If we knew about Pan's, Belle's, Aurora's, Mulan's, Philip's, Will's etc. childhoods dollars to donuts they would have a crappy one too. Red ate her lover. Hook watched Milah get killed. Rump thought Belle was killed and was betrayed by Cora. Jefferson lost his wife. Neal lost Emma cause he's a dumbass and Pinocchio told him to. Grumpy lost Nova. Mulan got dumped although the dumper, Aurora, didn't even realize she was dumping someone! Hook, Mulan, Rump, Elsa, Ingrid, Jefferson, Will all have a hard time showing their true feelings and being affectionate. Hook, Rump, Will, Jefferson, Whale, Neal, Red etc. are stubbon, willful and respond with sarcasm. And everyone of those characters have dabbled in crime of some sort and either chose the right or wrong path. If anything I think Emma and Rump are a lot closer to fitting "two sides of the same coin." If the writers could pull their heads out of Woegina's ass they could see what they actually put on tv vs their delusional world of what they think they put on tv. Or maybe it's because no one is clamoring for RumSwan and so they don't have to pander to that nonexistent crew. That leaves them free to indulge in their Woegina wet dreams.

For sure the magic on this show is super lame. I think 5 year olds have more imagination. Hell My Little Pony has cooler magic. I know they're limited with budget but Heroes, a network tv show, was able to do better stuff with their "magic." Well this is why I wanted a showdown between Snow Queen and Rump. The scale's always had Rump at the top as the most powerful until she showed up and she's the only that hasn't been his student. So using Rump as the starting point and discounting stuff like he can be limited by any dimwit holding his dagger, how do the others compare? I won't consider brain power either since in a village full of idiots, it's not worth the debate. Tools, magical objects and spells that can be used by anyone doesn't count either. So just by pure "muscle" strength: Cora, Zelena and Woegina are obviously all less powerful than Rump. Of those 3, I'd put Cora first. Zelena had the most natural ability but she got beaten by Woegina so she's at the bottom. Haven't seen enough of Ursula, Mal and Cruella to say anything about them except that since they too were Rump's students, they should also be less powerful than him. But Ursula's a goddess that scared the crap out of Woegina and she's been around centuries too so she has the potential to be more powerful than him? Her ink can also neutralize his magic and therefore the rest of his brood. Glinda is the least powerful of this group. The fairies don't have any magic without their wands so they don't count. Rump had to go out of his way to make deals with Ingrid to ensure his survival. He never even tried to take her down directly even when she went against him and I'm thinking it's because he can't. He can't neutralize her with his own magic but had to use the urn which only held her temporarily anyway. They're at least equal. Rump had centuries to hone his craft while Ingrid got 20 years, in an urn that was supposed to contain her power, to hone her craft so I'm putting her ahead. And she was in liquid form while she was learning all this crap by herself! Did Pan's magic only work on Neverland? I don't know where to put him since most of his power came from mind games. But since he lost to Rump in their showdown he goes under Rump. Elsa and Emma are the Bambis of the group so they're currently at the very bottom of the pile. Presumbably Elsa has the potential to be as powerful as Ingrid which would put her ahead of Rump. Emma's magic can work in the land of no magic and it has that unknown factor about it. Not even Rump knows what it can or can not do, so I'd put her potential on par with Elsa's potential. The Sorcerer by default is the most powerful. P.S. Since this show is Woegina's fanfiction and everyone else is just living in it, I'm going to say she's going to end up ast the most powerful. And the most victimized. And the most loving and whatever most+adjective A&E will throw out there.

Well the S2 spell Rump taught Emma was just that, a spell. I don't know if Emma's magic was required for it or had anything to do with its holding power. I mean Belle cast that invisible spell over Storybrooke. So I'm pretty sure anyone can cast a spell as long as they know what it is. Snow cast a spell too with that candle right? It didn't just work on its own but required her to chant some spell? But we're probably over thinking this. Magic is just a get out of jail card for the writers. It's an easy plot contrivance that doesn't require them to use their collective brain power. To be honest I wanted a magical showdown between Snow Queen and Rump. I'm talking full on cheesy light sabers fight, without the light sabers. Who was more powerful?

At that point he knew they were friends. Snow and Charming went to their wedding and was pretty chummy with them. I think he knew they would get involved cause they're busybody do-gooders and he's messed with them enough at that point to know that about them. I thought it was a cool plot, the only good plot they've had in fact. It's been obliterated by the material since, with all the realm jumping but that's another subject. It also neatly tied in with the making a deal with Emma on Cindy's behalf that finally did get him to Bae.

I think the writers just think they are being super clever and meta with this whole "author" plot thing. I know they're turning it into an actual story but I do believe that's the whole reason for going there.

He didn't. It was part of his long, complicated, and non-sensical con to end up in that prison to get baby Emma's name. It had to be something big for Cinderella and her Prince to want to fight him on and a baby was it. Also it's obviously tipping the hat to the original Rumpelstilltskin tale. Maybe not explicitly on the show but I recall one of the writers alluding to it. I think someone asked why Cinderella's baby didn't have magic and one of them goes, not all true love babies have magic. Besides I really can't imagine why they wouldn't be true love when all the Disney-fied couples are. They just don't want to bother with a story for those 2.

Well since this is Once, he would probably want Angelina Jolie's dress that would be able to take you across all realms. You just know the land of no magic will be brimming over with magical objects. I wished they would de-magic Rump. He was way more interesting when he had to use his brain to work people over. But I guess that would ask for too much creativity from these writers. Magic-less Mr. Gold getting one over everybody in S1 was way more interesting than anything he's done since, which is just brute force. Even in the fairybacks, he used manipulation rather than magic directly. He should be the poor man's Littlefinger from Game of Thrones. I say poor man's because while Robert is the slightly better actor, the writing over there is about a million times better.

That poster/picture has been up on the 3 actresses twitter for awhile now, way before the "official release." I figured that was the real poster and that they let the actresses publicize it first.

It's on the show. Emma and Rump's talk at the door turned into a conversation about Rumbelle. Why? Emma doesn't even know Belle. There's nothing to be mined from the fact that Rump was faced with the choice of giving up power or hurt his kid and Emma facing the same but doing the opposite? Nothing to add in about the fact that Rump making the wrong choice regarding his kid just happens to be Emma's baby daddy on top of it? Every single conversation Rump had with Hook had to bring up losing Belle. This show is all about dumb ass magic, yet they couldn't bother having a single scene of Emma, Elsa, Ingrid and Rump touching upon their magic? It was staring them right in their faces, the contrast and similarities between the 4 and nada. Rump got nothing out of 4A. Everything went back to the status of Rumbelle. This just proves my point. That struggle is their story. 100% going to be OutlawQ's story too. And when that story ends, then there is no more story, and show, to be had. Example-Snowing. They explained this. Either the writers/Lana or both actually said Woegina couldn't be happy or think about love without Henry. Of course now that she has Henry, he's no longer her happy ending so there you have it. They are so worried about making Woegina look good/perfect/victimized at all times that they have developed tunnel vision.