LizaD

I wasn't talking about that D23 interview. I was talking about the one they did a few weeks back. Where they admitted straight up that they thought this up at the end of 4A. This interview was in Feb 2015. "End of last year"= end of 2014= end of 4A not S3 period.

How can you say the writers didn't pull it out of their asses? When they were asked about Zelena's death back after 3B they said she was most definitely dead. Only now did they go oopsie, take backs are allowed! I think it was the D23 interview. They admitted themselves that they thought of a cool story for Zelena during S4, after they killed her off, and that's the reason they brought her back. That's straight from the horses' mouths. I don't believe it was planned in S3 at all. Their plan was to go with some kind of Woegina/Frozen-Elsa story until Disney nixed it.

I think people are just going to have to accept they're watching a soap opera on the level of Days of Our Lives. Long lost relatives randomly popping up are a soap staple. The "dead but not dead" people are another soap staple, and mistaken identities, retcons that never make any sense, zero logic, a week playing out over a year etc. Also I call foul and false advertisement with that Oscar promo and evil Emma.

This isn't going to make a lick of sense is it? First Snow and Charming didn't know what Woegina was going to do until they asked Rump and he told them about the curse and to get their baby to safety. How long was it from the Rump meeting, the war council and giving birth? Snow already looked like she was ready to pop in that scene with Rump. Which also begs the question why Rump didn't ensure his failsafe was safe? He left it up to Snow and Charming to take care of his business? And Woegina being such a good friend not only imprisoned her bff but wouldn't spare her bff's baby either? But at least this means Lily isn't the Author right? They're not going to double up her role are they? So who is it? The fake peddler? My other wild speculation is that Woegina's the author herself and that's the giant curveball A&E said was coming in ep.20.

So Lily is Mal's daughter after all? I'd like to point out I said that way back when and prefaced it as a wild theory and that Snow and Charming babynapped her. Not so wild after all I guess. Is the daddy Stefan, making her Aurora's half-sister too? So that makes another way to get to land without magic that Rump totally missed right? How many is that now? Route number 100? So to throw out another one of my wild speculations, Marian is Zelena but Zelena is really Cora! You know that woman has a got a weird fetish for getting with the same man as her kid.

So is it Zelena or Mal after all? I thought it was Mal at first glance but it does look like Zelena too. Now all we need is Lily to be Robin/Woegina's kid or Robin/Zelena's kid and we'll have Days of Woegina's Life.

So does this create some timeline continuity issues? Back when Emma met Rump in the time travel, which was the first day of her parent's meeting, Rump had no clue about the dark curse or true love thing. He said he was in the process of cooking up something but how could Emma know if he hadn't done it yet? But this first pow-wow had to have been before Belle was with Rump, because it's the first time the queens met each other. By the time Belle was in the picture from last season's finale, the trio were old friends. Also I'm pretty sure the writers don't realize this but yet again Rump used Belle to unwittingly do his dirty work. I thought the opposite, that she was trying too hard to not do Pam. Pam is more like Cruella.

I don't think it's mutually exclusive. Someone meeting that potential doesn't take away the fact that they had that capacity or potential in the first place? I don't think he was looking for "virgins" only. I don't know. It's hard to speculate with these writers because they don't hold to any rules. The more interesting thing would be if you put Emma and Rump together who it would go after. But I have a feeling Emma's got the bullseye not because it's an indicator or her power as a sorcerer or even her potential to go evil. I think it has to do with the source of her magic. Think about it, from the premise we were told that Emma had magic because she's a product of true love and true love is the most powerful magic of all but I think they're rewriting that history. A&E even said the difference between Emma's magic and Woegina's was that Emma's been around good magicians and Woegina's been around the bad ones no? Yeah we know that's complete bull but let's go with it. That to me means they're saying Emma doesn't inherently have white magic. Also in that promo you see Charming and Snow put their hands up against the rock and it has some sort of hand print on it. I don't know if that's a callback to Emma's hand print burning the wood when her magic went out of wack or it's just a coincidence.

No I think it just means that whenever Chernabog is around a group of people he zeroes in on the one with the darkest heart of that group. So of the trio, Mal has it but put Mal in with Emma and Storybrooke and it'll go after Emma. I don't think it means that Mal is similar to Emma. I think it was just a clunky way to show what Chernabog's purpose was, to show that Mal is the baddest of the trio and for the "shocking" Emma reveal. I do remember them saying Ursula was the least evil, Mal was the most and Cruella is the grey one. But it's hard to know what they mean when their view is so warped. For all we know A&E speak for Mal being the "most evil" means she has the sobbiest tragic story. As for Charmings' secret, seems like they actively screwed Mal over but Cruella and Ursula knows about it. This fits in with Mal being the most evil cause those damn White/Charming line, so evil they created evil. After last night and the writers saying we'll meet the author, I'm convinced the Author is Lily. I don't think we'll get to meet the Sorcerer or they'll save him for some other time.

No, they're writing it deliberately to make it so Woegina the sad little kitty that is the biggest victim ever and are getting positive reinforcement from the camp that does like Mary Sue Woegina fanfiction. Back when they used to do the podcasts I remember them saying that the when they zoomed in on Woegina's sad kitty face at the end of the 2A finale they went how mean the Charmings are for not inviting her after she saved them. That was before any feedback so... They are the ones who write in the 10 million close up shots of her sad face at the exclusion of everything else. That is to manipulate the audience into what they want and it succeeded on some level. And why wouldn't it? If you're writing fanfiction, the audience you're most likely to attract are people who love the Mary Sues in the fanfiction no? If they're really being influenced by Twitter where is the focus on Rumbelle? And why doesn't Rump get the same Woegina treatment?

I was only half paying attention so I might have missed some things but Rump didn't create the Dark Curse? Is that what they're saying? What? Why would they present Rump as BOSS but then retcon the biggest con he ran? Stupid. So if they're revisiting this curse origin thing yet again I'm thinking Emma's dark heart thing is probably a bit more literal and tied to the retcon. It could be the source of her magic is from the darkest source, the same one as the curse and why Rump specifically pegged her to be the curse breaker. He lied about the true love thing. So only the trio Queens know Snow and Charming's secret? Rump has to know too right? It wouldn't make sense that his lackeys know but not him. I hate that lackey vibe by the way. Big mistake to make them Rump's underlings. Maybe Mitchell's Snow Queen is a hard act to follow but I found all 3 to be lacking in presence and gravitas. She commanded any and all scene she was in and didn't even have to speak. These 3 feel like they belong in high school reenacting Mean Girls. Cruella is at least fun. But when Snow White comes off more commanding and more intimidating than the supposed QoDs, you've got problems. Also no Emma's real world reaction of Cruella and Ursula? Yeah I know its repetitive and she should probably be used to it at this point but I feel like that nod to the audience is crucial. It's a campy cheesy show! Come on play that up instead of all constant serious moping faces going on all the time.

Anytime Adam and Eddy says something, my opinion of them just sinks that much lower. They think Belle being all "Change or fuck off" is a show of power and strength? That that is the height of her character being strong or something? Say what? This right here sums up everything wrong about Rumbelle and the writers just doesn't get it. How about finding a guy you can love without requiring him to change? And how is it love when you want the guy to change and can't be with him if he doesn't? More like fuck off writers. I'm guessing Ursula is going to get part of Disney's Ariel story, the part that was in "Poor Unfortunate Soul." Hook tricked Ursula into giving up something, maybe her "goddess-ness" or something. As a result she was banished by her father for screwing up somehow cause you know this show and their parental issues. People are worried about Hook's character being ruined but what about Ursula? She was supposedly this scary ancient goddess that scared the crap out of Woegina, Poseidon is her daddy and they've turned her into some pathetic teenage victim. Weak. Well we all know the writers aren't into reality. They're addicted and high on Woegina crack. You seriously don't think the writers believe that the Charmings have lead a "charmed" life so far and Woegina is the biggest victim that ever victim'ed?

Davis only signed for 1 year originally. I think she said she agreed to more after she saw the ratings and what a hit it was. And she got ABC to cap each season at 15 episodes. Plus she has Shonda to back her up and we know Shonda practically rules ABC. Regardless of contract I think if any actor was that unhappy and desperately wanted to leave, they would let them leave. Shonda let Heigl go at the height of Greys so with Once's ratings I don't see anyone being that precious of a commodity that they would be kept on the show against their wishes.

Mal's episode also has King Stefan and Aurora in it. That's pretty packed. I'm looking forward to it cause they got Sebastian Roche. It pretty much means that Stefan is a baddie. Wonder how they'll make his baddie different from the movie. Hook's flashback is with that peddler. We got filming reports of it. Not sure what episode that was but it wasn't Mal's. And since we saw the peddler pop back up with Rump I'm guessing he's an important character. My 2 theories: Snow and Charming knows exactly who the Author is and had something to do with how he/she wrote the stories, like giving them the happy endings and the bad guys the sucky endings. And the price for that is Emma's evil heart. To go with that, Lily is the "Neville" to Emma's "Harry" with a twist. Snow/Charming somehow cheated so that Emma would be the Savior and Lily got the short end of the stick. But Lily is supposed to be the Savior with that star scar like how Harry got the Lightning scar. The writers keep saying that line about Emma being told all this time that she was the Savior just screams that she isn't. And yes we'll forgot the fact that Savior was just a name Rump came up with to manipulate everyone cause it sounds better than pawn. Or 2nd theory is Lily is the Author.

Is this quest the "turn Emma to the dark side?" thing? I'd be down with that if I got Imp!Rump and Emma scenes. He must guess that Chernabog wants Emma's evil heart for some reason and he too will go after it. If the quest is Get Belle Back, pass. Only if Mal is her mom! Both Ginny and Josh are scheduled to be on some morning talk show next week. Since that episode is probably their centric and reveal the big dark secret, it makes sense for them to do it then.

Getting a second look at Jafar only means giving a chance for these writers to ruin him. I don't think Disney is using this show as a vehicle for advertising. More likely Adam and Eddy are trying to ride on the coattails of Disney cause they have nothing to offer. Certainly their stellar writing isn't setting the world on fire. Take Frozen. They somehow took a billion dollar hit and ended their arc with demos that tied their previous series low. Don't think Disney benefitted from that one bit. Once got all the benefits, temporarily anyway. I bet Cinderella is going to make a return soon too. It's not really a bad move on the writers part. They're just incompetent enough to not be able to take advantage of it. It's not like if they started doing obscure fairy tales this show would get better. Now I think they're solely relying on the beloved Disney aspect to keep the show going.

But was she "blinded by love" or blinded by delusions of self-importance? Belle's finale speech indicated that she wanted to save Rump and she thought that she had. It's all part of her "I want to be a hero" complex. I don't think she believed Rump changed so much as she wanted to believe that she had changed Rump. Belle's the type that would never go for a Charming cause he's normal and doesn't need saving. You know the ones that seeks out the bad boys just so they can feel special about "saving" them? Let's hope this thing with Will does better things for her character and not drag Will down the deep pit of Rumbelle instead.

Well nobody's gettting a big pay raise if they renew. The ratings are slipping each season and serial dramas don't do well in syndication so there would be no huge motivation to get more seasons for that reason. The only reason to keep this show is because ABC has nothing better ratings wise. I thought about that. I don't think she gives any crap about the show anymore or is a lot more zen about it. I recall her saying back in S2 that she was really upset when fans came up to her and screamed at her for being mean to Woegina and that she accepted the blame for not knowing how to integrate Snow and Mary Margaret but that was the last time I heard her speak about caring about it. That said I don't think there's a cushier job for her and Josh than working on the same show. I think it's a challenge for married actors to even get gigs in the same city.

Yeah one of the sites that saw the first 2 episodes kind of spoiled it already. Chernabog is looking for the darkest heart aka Emma's heart.

I think the show is dark in a cheesy non-family friendly way. It's a soap opera so the subject matter is pretty mature and veer towards dark material but just like on soaps, it's covered in a cheesy melodramatic goo that is totally ridiculous. Probably the reason why they couldn't hang onto those new Frozen viewers, most of whom were probably families with little girls that were diehard Frozen fans. I don't think the writers understood at all what blew Frozen up into a billion dollar franchise. It's such a shame because all of the 3 main actors were on point with the Disney cartoon. Are we sure the original contracts were for 5 years? Isn't the average 6? If so, of the main cast I think only Carlyle and Jen are most likely leaving. It's clear that Carlyle has checked out and his opinions for Rump and the general show seem to be the polar opposite from the writers. He also said at the very beginning that signing a long term contract was huge for him cause he didn't like being locked down for so long. I recall a Jen interview back in S2 or 3 where she said it was exhausting and desperately needed a break. She wished that the show was only 12 episodes per season. That's practically a flashing neon sign to me. And she also seems to be more into directing now. I don't know either way with the others. They haven't been as vocal and obvious with their opinions as those 2 that I know of. I do think the show might possibly survive without Carlyle and Jen. They would probably get Wonderland ratings and that's on par with the other Sunday offerings. Unless they have something better in the pipeline, like more Shonda shows to plug up Sundays, it might be enough.

Maybe the writers know what season they want to end this on or the actors have already told their bosses "I'm leaving this joint as soon as I can" so they want to get through all the popular Disney stuff as much as they can. Also the hook on this show has always been Disney mashups! so I think the point is they want to see Cruella with Mal, Ursula and all these other villains vs just Cruella and the regular folks. It's the same type of attraction with Avengers. Yeah I agree but it's the type of silly campy stuff that I laughed at and enjoyed as a kid cause Goofy and Donald with powers? Awesome. I'm just kind of surprised that more comparisons haven't been made with Kingdom Hearts and Once. Everytime the writers act like it's original and creative to have all these mashups and characters together I roll my eyes so hard. As silly as the QoD stuff I rather watch them all day than Woegina whining yet again. Seriously do they not get tired of writing this stuff? I can not imagine how exhausting it is to stay with a character's whiny ass voice all day long for years. Or is it because all they have to do is copy and paste easy breezy?

Man these writers are lame and totally devoid of imagination. What happened to their motto that everyone must be related to be Shakespeare worthy material? I would've liked it better if Emma had the darkest heart and Chernabog wants it cause he's her daddy or momma? Is Chernabog male/female in Fantasia? And eating her heart like a boss Hannibal will give him real immortality. Oh wait, nevermind cause we've seen that before. Although that's never stopped them either. I can't tell if the reporters are speaking Adam and Eddy speak when they say Charmings' secret is pretty dark? Or is this normal people talk? Cause if it's the former then 5 year old Snow probably stole Cruella's puppy and ruined her life for good. If the latter? They definitely ruined Mal's life in some way. My wild spec? Lily is her kid and the Charmings kidnapped her and used her as a test case for baby transportation to land without magic to make sure that Emma would get there safely when it's her turn. Yeah I know that would require some wild retconning from the pilot but that's never stopped these clowns. Or remember how Snow was cursed with infertility and they fixed it by Ruth dying? What if that was a fakeout, aka more retconning, and Snow only got a baby by making a deal with Chernabog and hence Emma's heart is the blackest of blackest to have ever blacked. And to get this deal through, Snow had to take someone's ability to procreate away, like the Cora candle and she took Mal's. ETA: It sounds like they're ripping off Riku's story from Kingdom Hearts for Emma. He was a hero that got temporarily turned over to the dark side by Maleficent. I think Mal gave him the power to command the heartless. Sounds familiar? Then him walking on the darkside allowed him to be possessed by the main villain, Ansem-Seeker of Darkness. Ansem is kind of like the Rump character. And there's a fight with Chernabog and a test Yen Sid/Sorcerer sent him on and like Once all sorts of masups with other Disney characters.

But she wasn't going to be powerful in her own right. She had to marry Henry Sr. who wasn't even first in line for the throne and then plot to get Leopold's kingdom for her kid. She would've been more powerful in her own right as wife of the Dark One because her marrying Henry Sr. made no sense. It would track better if she just struck out on her own. And all her "power" was because Rump taught her magic in the first place. I will give her credit for demanding Rump teach her rather than spinning the gold for her. That was clever of her. The most pathetic thing about Cora when they ruined her with Bleeding Through is that her turning down love to control her destiny? Amounted to ruining her kid all to get revenge on Eva. That's the bottom line. She ruined her own life and chance at love and sacrificed her kid for Eva. Now maybe if Eva was some kickass villain in her own right that wouldn't be so pathetic. As for outsmarting Rump, I don't give her credit for that either because Rump was in love with her. He was using his heart and not his brain to think so he was handicapped. Only Ingrid and Anna have outsmarted Rump at full power.

Well I consider Snow having some villainous tendencies and being culpable of some evil, does that count? Just about the only heroic thing she's ever done is kill Cora but then she turned into a sniveling coward right after. Miller's Daughter in a bubble is likely one of the top episodes of the series. In context however, it sealed the deal on the screwed up morality of the show permanently. We got a hint of where it was heading in the fall 2A finale where A&E claimed the evil Charmings ditched poor Woegina but this one was the nail in the coffin. I think this episode was also where they lost their way with Rump right after. They didn't know what to do with him after this epsiode and still don't. I looked up the show's producers/writers to see if anyone left in between S1 and S2 to indicate the complete tonal shift in how they frame the villains but I didn't see any. However, Samantha Thomas and Ian Goldberg left at the end of S2. And Christine Boylan and Robert Hull left end of S3. I'd like to think the S2 deserters left in protest over the woobification of villains and the S3 quitters left over the sanctification of Woegina. I just want a villain whose goal doesn't involve getting someone to love them. Ingrid as poor man's version of Magneto would've been perfect. They even seemingly set it up onscreen but threw it out in favor of some dumb plan to make Emma and Elsa her sisters. Who with more than 2 brain cells to rub together thought that would be a better villain story than Magneto? Or a villain like Ra's Al Ghul and his relationship with Batman. I thought S1 Gold and Emma had the potential to be in the same vein. Or a completely fun loving villain who just likes havoc, like Pan and Imp Rump were before they turned all dark and angsty.

I thought the line was "brimming with blindess" not blackness. I also thought the Author was bringing the happy endings, not this other person Rump was referring to in the promo. And the descriptions Rump gave fit Woegina. This promo was also especially made for the Oscars where 99% of the audience don't watch Once and will never watch Once. The pretty blonde hero getting corrupted by Disney famous villains and Robert Carlyle is a better and way simpler hook than the Evil Queen turned hero getting together with the evil crew. Doesn't have to be an accurate representation of anything.