LizaD

I think Arthur is just looking out for his own interests and I wouldn't even say that was shady except the casting call for him made him sound shady. I don't think he's the big villain either way for the simple fact that he doesn't seem to have any magic and we all know the big bad has to have magic. They can't be bothered with making a villain intelligent and use their brains, so brawn it is. But why did his apprentice say that only he could destroy it then and to go find him? I still say Merlin's the big bad. Maybe Nimue took on the darkness to keep Merlin from getting his hands on it. He couldn't destroy her cause he's in love with her, so he tethered her to Excalibur instead. Which is sort of neat since in the various legends, it was Nimue who gave Excalibur to Arthur.

How is Merlin even trapped? I don't buy it. We know he was strutting around Minnesota when Emma was a kid and for 20+ years from there, he didn't have Rump the DO to worry about or any of the EF people, since they were in stasis. Not sure what was happening in Camelot but they would have to be "frozen" too in another contrived way since Lancelot was with Snow before curse and hasn't aged since. If Nimue was the 1st DO then she couldn't have trapped him in the time period of kid Emma till now because she would either be dead or without the DO power since it's obviously passed on to others. And if she did trap him, Rump when he was the DO or Emma as the current DO would have to know about it. A&E said Emma now has the power to access all the knowledge and skills of all the previous DOs combined so whatever Nimue plus others knows, she would too. I think that's probably how Emma finds Merlin, by using some knowlege that Nimue had but I don't think Merlin was ever trapped. And to find Merlin she would have to tap into that dark magic. Crazy spec, do we have filming spoilers of Merlin interacting with other people without Emma? Besides the obvious orign flashback I mean. I know they had that one scene with Henry and Woegina but Emma was also there. Because I've been thinking that if dark flubber was originally his then Merlin with Emma could be the "Rump" inside Emma's head without her realizing it and the real form won't pop up till later. So he's subtly training her the way DO Rump was but she won't be on guard against it like with Rump cause she thinks Merlin is helping her.

Demos don't support this. At all. The highest kids demos 2-11 came in S1, 2A and Frozen. In fact Frozen's 2-11 numbers were even higher than S1's numbers, at least initially. It might have gotten more cartoony but I don't think that automatically translates to kid show. In fact those 2-11 demos tells me that it was the large contingent of families with kids dropping the show like a hot potato that was driving the overall big decline in the demos that do matter, 18-49, that began in 2B.What is so kid friendly about having Snow White drooling in a corner and getting called murderer every 2 seconds for episodes on end? You don't have to explain to an 8 year old why the Evil Queen is evil because that was in the cartoon. But try explaining to an 8 year old with Disney princesses dolls and dresses, why one of those princesses is now evil amd a killer and victimizer? Not sure that's a prospect "Disney families" want to touch just yet. The show has been relentlessly depressing and dreary in tone since S2. S1 had mature themes but it had a light whimsical fairy tale feel to it, that it has never been able to recapture, even with Frozen. That probably explains why Frozen, despite its outstanding cast, couldn't retain those viewers. What it got was more "CW" like, not more Nickolodean like, that was the problem. I think that perfectly explains why even though ratings are declining, they get a lot of social media chatter, just like the CW shows. I mean those shows always pop up on top social media counts but the audience is even lower than Once's. It's too bad for them that CW works on a slightly different model than the big 4. It's not kid friendly for the 2-11 group and it's not smart enough to hang onto the parents that could watch it for themselves but cut it off from their kids. Seriously no primetime network targets kids. You can target 18-49 adults with kids or 18-49 adults without kids. The whole "family friendly" line doesn't mean they're chasing kids. It means you're more likely to see a vacuum cleaner or laundry detergent commercial in the spot that pulls in 18-49 with kids versus without.

Right I'm saying if all the warning meant was not to become the DO and take on the dagger, A&E would've just said it was answered in the premiere with the reveal that dagger=tip of Excalibur. But they made it sound as if Merlin's warning would come into play later on, that was separate from the 4B finale event. There's no reason to be mysterious about if or explain further if the warning already played out. To me that quote makes zero sense if the warning meant that Emma shouldn't have taken on the darkness.

Emma took the dagger back, or was given it, in Camelot when she's still prancing around in her white dress. She had it in those filming pictures with Merlin. So there's a stretch of time between when she gets the dagger and turning dark. I thought that at first too, but A&E said we'll find out what the warning means in the first 7 episodes with Merlin's origin story and how Emma connects to it no? If it was answered in the premiere it shouldn't have come up in the after premiere q&a.

Well I think this is because there's a fundamental misunderstanding of what Nielsen ratings actually measure. They're not measuring how many people are watching a certain show. At all. Zero interest in that. They are a measure of how many people are watching commercials at a given time. It's not really show ratings but commercial ratings.All those alternatives ways people watch something, like Netflix, is good for the networks. They're getting additional revenue separate from the ad model and it's done through licensing deals. But I'm certain Unilever and it's ad buyers don't give one single crap how so and so is popular on Netflix. Unless Netflix binge watchers then move to watching the show live. That's certainly not true for Once as there is no growth in viewers, outside of the Frozen bubble.

The casting call for Merida's parents was for ep.9 wasn't it? Also I'm pretty sure Merida's story is linked to Rump's. Saw somewhere that the actress on twitter said she had loads of stuff with Rump. Maybe they can squeeze Mulan and/or Ruby into Merida's backstory since they have to show up in ep. 8,9, or 10. Well we know we get young Arthur/Gwen flashbacks so that doesn't involve the main cast unless Rump is somehow involved there too. We get Merlin and Nimue flashbacks, which I actually want, and that predates Rump.

Wait so it really is a redo-curse times 3? I thought even with the amnesia and realm jumping that it wasn't a curse because hello, they can get to Storybrooke in other ways now. If it is one then I don't think DS cast it and it should be obvious to the crew no? Even if they are complete idiots? I mean Henry is still alive and breathing and annoying the crap out of me. Maybe Arthur cast it using Lancelot's heart and since they love that copying and pasting key, Emma flies in at the last moment on her broomstick and adds in her special ingredient. Lancelot is missing in Storybrooke even though he's clearly part of the Camelot crew. I don't think Emma is faking it purely because the writers want to make her a villain and a bigger evil than you know who. I also don't think the crew did anything wrong and Emma is mislead into thinking they did. Either that or Snow fucked up, cause you know it would have to be Snow and only Snow but then it'll still be Emma's fault anyway. I conclude this all from past storylines of course. I hope Emma's new hobby is pumpkin carving. Wasn't she spotted in a pumpkin patch? I'm sure there's a Disney jack o'lantern tie in available somewhere. Then they can hawk it on the ABC store.

And Emma gave about as fair a shake as she could to a complete stranger with the weird accent she could barely understand and was willing to kill to get what they want, all the while hefting around centuries of the darkest darkness. What's Merida's excuse? It's a double standard because Merida started the aggression first and her first instinct was to kill her. Emma the oh so bad Dark One's first instinct was to talk to her. It was only after Merida tried to kill her multiple times that Emma responded in kind. Don't forget this show's hard and fast line about "heroes don't kill." But apparently that rule only applies to the Charmings clan and they're always expected to roll over and let everyone walk all over them. Everyone else can do whatever they want including killing or attempt to kill and they'll still be "heroes."

Did people reall have doubts about it being Mulan? Because LBGT romance-story, Mulan-LBGT character coming back didn't scream, hey it's about Mulan? With the timing of Ruby's return too, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Mulan and Ruby. I wonder when they'll set it up, in the 5A finale or ep. 9? So far there's been no filming reports of Jamie or Megan right?

So Merlin was really hot even if the lines coming out of his mouth was complete nonsense. Arthur is not too shabby himself. Kid Emma is adorable. That's about all I've got. Rump and Emma were fun together and it looks like RC is back to looking like he's enjoying being onscreen at least. I hope it lasts awhile before he's weighed down by Anchor Belle again. Snow's gasp at the end when DS touched her face was A+. Granny got some good lines. I found everything else a bit bland. The morality preaching on this show just kills me. Every. Single. Time. So Emma is dark and selfish if she tries to go for the magic Macguffin of the hour but somehow Merida escapes that selfish clause? Cause she's "Brave?" Emma killing Merida is OMG!NOES!Evil but Merida aiming her arrow at Emma to take her out is all fine and dandy? Emma can't betray Merida cause it's dark but it's all good if Merida does. So stupid. This is not to say I have anything against Merida but the tunnel vision is just wack. Why can't this show just be a silly super cheesy fairy tale show like it's meant to be?

I don't think it's in any danger of getting cancelled but Once has Frozen to thank for S5's ratings. If they get a dramatic decrease in ratings and underdelivers, it's going to be interesting if they have to deliver make-goods.

Not so much. From what I know, only 1 ad buyer agency agreed to the C7 deal with networks and they did so because they negotiated a lower CPM in exchange. Hard to know at this point where that scale is going to tip. As for streaming, in the past they've been sold separately. Easiest way to tell is if the live commercials are the same as the ones for online streaming. That said I know at the upfronts this year, ABC and the other networks were going hard on bundling packages across a variety of platforms.

From JM's interview So goth tacky makeup fully embraced the darkness Dark Swan takes a vacation? Man so evil. That bloodline, first spilling secrets, tripping people and taking vacations. Who knows what evil deeds they'll take up next? I'm shaking in my boots. They should also rename the Dark Swan Rises crap to Dark Swan Takes a Vacation instead. I'm thinking the EF citizens will be A-OK. It's not like she's been doing a lot of saving after all. They still have St. Woegina doing all the heavy lifting so at most they'll be missing their "would you like fries with that" person. So any guesses as to who the "gets to have all the fun" villain is? Zelena, Arthur, Merlin, or the missing Gold? Maybe all 4?

Yeah that spoiler just about zapped any excitement I had for the half-arc. I know I was hoping against hope that they were going to tell a real story and mythology against overwhelming past evidence but damn. They literally are just copying and pasting at this point. So we're in for yet another round of a great big misunderstanding that amounts to petty family soap drama/squabble. You know they're not going to have Emma be justified in her anger in any way because she's never been before, not even against the much maligned Snowing. Annoying Henry and everyone is still alive so any reason she's pissed and went dark is going to be stupid as hell. Really nothing short of someone intentionally causing a miscarriage is going to cut it, for her to use anger to go dark and hello Disney, it can't be that dark. I was hoping she had some weird complicated plan working towards some mysterious goal ala Rump in S1 but that's clearly too much taxing for these writers. Now the quote about her seeking vegeance on her family makes sense. They won't bother with past issues but they'll come up with some silly misunderstanding to throw Emma under an 18 wheeler like usual. I think we've spec'ed on the dagger a lot and Souris said it hasn't been guessed correctly yet. My new bet is Merlin's tree is baby Emma's tree and that somehow has further implications.

Well that's because they're not writing for a plot to get to a story point. The way they did stuff its obvious to see the intent behind it. 1. Have Hook vs Woegina 2. Get Zelena involved in the main crew 3. Use the Apprentice to drop more stupid "mysterious" statements about Merlin There's plenty of ways to get to Emma. All the apprentice had to say was to find a way back to the EF and they have about a million ways to do so now. If he knew all DOs have to be "reborn" then he sure as hell knows where they're reborn. But no he wants to make them all think like Rump and find the hardest, most complicated way to do something.

Ok that new sneak peek? Pretty much confirms it for me what I've thought all along, that black flubber was originally Merlin's. The apprentice said Merlin's wand was created from light and dark. I'm also going to put my money on that also being the way to destroy the DO then, by combining the lightest and the darkest. And gag me now, I do think that's Emma as the darkest and Woegina as the lightest. I was really hoping that Rump and maybe Emma together would do it. The DO was Rump's thing from the beginning of this show damn them. ETA: Zelena's innocent fetus is light Kingofhearts.

It still is. I can't believe the casting dept. that found all the young Snow, Bae, Rump, Emma, Pan, Ingrid etc. made such a huge misstep here. So I know we all thought earlier that ep.5 would be when we found out why Emma turned full DS since they first said it was her centric but now that episode is really Henry's centric? I guess to be fair to them, there's so many interchangeable Woegina props that it's hard to keep them all straight but I don't think that's the turning point then. Could it be ep.7? She's still strolling around in her white dress and we get Nimue's and Merlin's backstory and possibly the first DO then it would be a nice tie in to the not-so-present Camelot when Emma embraces the DS. I'm not as impressed with Merida as others but it was a short scene. I liked Elsa and Anna right away though and I'm not feeling Merida yet. I think that Hook and Henry scene would've been improved with Charming added in. Since they already spoiled the Snowing conflict, it would make sense that Charming would throw in his lot with Hook while Snow is still lodged up Woegina's ass.

I just saw this picture set of Daddy Charming and had a thought. Is Merlin's tree, baby Emma's tree? The wardrobe portal thing. If they're going by the legend and Nimue locked him up in the tree, maybe him getting transported with baby Emma and Pinocchio freed him.

I think they just found inspiration from this Arthur novel including the biblical looking Merlin and Nimue. A lot of the costumes look pretty much like the ones we've seen for Camelot. http://d.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/publication/legends-of-king-arthur-and-his-knights#lessThumbs

Me too but only because I'm shallow and he is a prime piece of eye candy. Truth. I think I would like this show and its posters a lot more if it's supposed to be in the vein of Galavant. I'm thinking the art has to be done by a non-paid intern who secretly or not so secretly loathes the show. But to be fair to them, these posters are meant for the online fans that will watch the show regardless so they really don't have to invest in it.

Souris, not to pump you for information but since I haven't seen this talked about anywhere, how were the scene(s) with DS and DO Rump? Were they at least entertaining? I'm guessing it's not substantial and we only get that one scene we've got pictures of? Because they're older than dirt? Rump's 300-ish years old so the both of them would be older than that. How much older would depend on how many DO's came before Rump and how long was their reign. Nimue isn't really dressed like what I pictured the lady of the lake would have as a costume. I wonder if Lady of the Lake title came from her being the DO and as the DO she's banished to the lake aka DO vault.

I could see this, especially if they want to do DS vs Arthur. But depending on which source you take from, I feel like there are enough similar elements between Nimue and Morgana that it would be redundant to do both of them on Once. I also don't know if we're headed towards DS-Emma parallels with Arthur or it'll be DS and Merlin. Come to think of it, they haven't really spoiled Arthur's story have they beyond the bromance with Charming? Watch that be a red herring and Arthur ends up being the villain.Ok now I'm really curious about the connection. Since Emma crawls out all wet, could it be something as simple as the DO vault is buried or kept in The Lake in Avalon. Or the vault IS the lake. Instead of Excalibur coming from the lake, since it's now in the stone, the dagger comes from there. That's my last spec on that. And thanks for telling us Emma has eyebrows. Honestly that was going to be my biggest problem, if the makeup looked as bad as it did in the photos.

No one's guessed the Camelot DO connection? We need to step up our game. Just tell me it ain't some more soap opera stuff like paternity reveals. They love those. Like Merlin is Lancelot's daddy. By Dark One do you mean the OG version or Emma as the DS?

That's what I figured awhile back, that they were copying some parts of the Ebony Dagger and sword stuff from the Marvel universe and that that was the non-surprising connection. I'm also guessing that Excalibur can beat the DO or vice versa and that Emma knows about it but won't tell anyone. Maybe that's part of the warning she gets from Merlin as a kid. Since they're doing Nimue, I don't think they're going to do Morgana. If the black blob belonged to Merlin, Nimue would have that connection or maybe Nimue was the OG Dark One. In opposite ways? Cause I think we're about to do that whole prophecy thing with Emma destined to be the DO vs Arthur's prophecy. Maybe they'll retcon the breaking of the Dark Curse stuff. Emma as the future DS is the reason why she's able to break the curse, and not because as Rump believed, that true love potion loop hole he put in.