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Didn't watch the Sasha reveal, has Holly mentioned Ethan at all? What's the timeline here, is Ethan older than Sasha? Did Holly raise her son and abandon her daughter? I don't remember the Ethan is Luke's reveal that much. Was she an involved mom with him? Does Ethan know he has a half sister? Willow and Drew is gross even though I love anything that gives the Corthinos clan a taste of their own medicine. The scene of Sasha getting nabbed had a nice zip too it and was a great stinger for next episode.

Watched this episode through tears too. Everyone is doing a good job reacting to Sam's death, but Alexis is just heartbreaking. Scout is so precious with her drawing and I love the little family Dante and Sam made with their children so liked seeing Rocco in Scouts picture. Carly is surprisingly not annoying me as she usually is. I liked her conversation with Danny. Robert deserves better, and if it's true that Sidwell targeted Sam because of the diamonds she stole, everyone better lay into her. You can be a commitment phobic, world traveling, not like the other women, women but don't be an asshole Holly. I wasn't born when Robert/Holly was a thing so I also assumed Robert/Anna was the bigger deal,when Robert came back and Robin saw him in the hospital but twitter seems to think that Robert/Holly is the OTP.

Alexis holding Dante's face got me too and then I couldn't stop crying the whole episode. Sonny always being the absolute worst. Did not think Sam passing would have such an effect but it brought back memories from when I used to watch when JaSam was at its highest. I liked the episodes of Sam and Alexis finding out they are mother and daughter as well. I also remember Kelly from the first season of Dancing With the Stars.

Just finished the Survivor chapter of the book and agree, it was super interesting reading the behind the scenes stuff of how that 1st season happened and how everything changed for tv but for the show itself after it.

I died laughing. His smug turned off real quick. Me, you, and probably Anika at home, wishing for Andy to experience the "fun" of a blindside. Please Survivor gimme it. He is so embarrassing, I can't look. @Tango64 your post was great, and I agree. I just finished the chapter on Survivor in Cue the Sun! The Invention of Reality TV by Emily Nussbaum, and was fascinating reading. There were crew/production who brought up the issues with the way Survivor changed from the OG vision and the casting really early on after the first season. Rest of the episode was great - the editors really had a great time with Rome and his speech about home teams etc, and how he's playing the game at 100 and Sol is like negative 55. I was so happy for Sol when at tribal, like he earned that reprieve from Rome! I was alittle surprised Genevieve didn't fight at all for Rome since she threw in with Rome at their last tribal. But so far the last couple of episodes since I've known of her existence she is playing well. I like all the members of the red tribe left, kinda rooting for them. Andy with his "Anika had my name in her mouth since day 2" like man you had a MELTDOWN at a challenge and run over your whole tribe with a bus - she had every right to say your name. Also still getting the weird vibes between what Andy perceives Rachel should be like towards him. He was so happy to see her down and at the "bottom" since she didn't baby him and admit her undying loyalty to him those first couple of days at the beach - seemed like he was happy she was being punished for it. Also glad that Caroline and Tiyana put it together about Sue's idol after seeing all the red paint again. I was hoping for a tribe swap into 2 teams instead of a merge but oh well. I love swaps because it really changes up the dynamics of people's games, and allows for different connections to be made.

Never ever gets old. I said it in last week's thread but, how many years later, I still remember this (and other moments from "old" Survivor), remember having a huge smile on my face as it played out - but if you asked me about last season I have a vague recollection of things that happened. It's just not the same and I don't think it's too do with age at all. @JudyObscure me and my sister both cheered so hard when it happened as well. ^This vote was so brilliant with the nice guys double blindsiding the 3 hombres and Dreamz. Just strategy on another level that we would never see today. Hard agree! I love all the takes about Anika. I didn't see the smugness at all, but I agree that she was on Sam's shit list since she undermined him about the shelter in Episode 1 and have no idea where the animosity from Andy towards her comes from?! Andy is the smug one in that tribe - I swear I hear clown music over his confessionals. Yeah I don't see this ending well for Sierra at all. Rachel the only yellow tribe member I like now. Genevieve, it's been like 1 day and your already regretting the Rome vs. Kishan thing 🤦‍♀️. I do not understand how anyone keeps their cool around Rome on that tribe. Gabe vs Tiyana - yikes. But Sue is the one that annoys me on that tribe.

He should have told Genevieve before that he was going to try to get Rome out and would say her name as decoy. Or say Teeny's name. She said something to Teeny along the lines of, "I was just sitting here and this plan came to me without any input/discussion with me." I knew then that Kishan was gone. Kishan just needed to talk to her first or wait till Teeny came back to have a 3 person discussion with Teeny and Genevieve. I also agree that Sol has more patience than I could ever have, cause I would have screamed in Rome's face. The office look to the camera Teeny did after Rome and Sol had their fight was hilarious. From watching all these years of Survivor Rome is the type of player you vote out the FIRST chance you get Genevieve! I hope Sierra sees that Andy is not trustworthy at all and his first loyalty is to Sam only. Sue, for all the time you had to clean up that was the best you could do? Also Caroline and Tiyana please tell me you realized it was idol/advantage related, and not just Sue being a "danger" to herself. Sue kills me with her vendetta against Kyle. He wasn't in your alliance Sue, he had every right to write your name down - he's actually trying to work with you and you shutting him down makes him more likely to write your name again - and Gabe is totally playing you. Do we think Rome would be less obnoxious now that he has no advantages? Or riding high on a blindside that he didn’t even initiate. I thought this was a good episode overall, and I enjoy Anika and Rachel over on Gata just killing it with the puzzles. I jinxed the red tribe by saying how well they did in challenges in the 1st two episodes, oopsies. Will be interesting how Teeny reacts and carries on now with their number one gone. I can't tell if their getting a winners edit and this is their adversity story. I called last seasons winner in the 2nd episode. 🤔

^This alone would make such a difference. Most contestants don't get to show their strategy skills when your options are always reduced because of the number of idols/advantages. Everyone needs to play it safe and align with people with those idols because they carry so much power and there are like 100 per season. I don't want to be a grumpy oldie but there wasn't anything like Survivor on TV when it premiered, and now as someone said above its Big Brother on TV. They are so coddled and I don't think they need to be. Back to the 39 days, no idols, no journeys, no advantages, no second chance island. I still remember faces if not names from the early days and cannot for the life of me remember more than like 2 people from the newer seasons. My brother started watching the 1st season and he was floored with the fact that they had to SURVIVE along with all the other aspects.

I agree with your entire post @Grimnar yet I oddly really enjoyed it. Did it have time issues and some questionable writing choices, yes - but I thought it built on the episodes and did the job as a season finale for the most part. If this man doesn't have the worst death ever, I will be so pissed. He's such a hateful loser. Man, hopefully his mother was right about him. His father is gross too. Gee, Earien if it isn't the consequences of your actions. I hope she see's the light, but like @Grimnar says maybe we should be seeing this change in her for longer than a scene. Elrond stays the best - his appeal to not destroy the records of Eregion. Also he was right, Durin did come! (kept his promise to Elrond). The shot with King Durian jumping off to fight the Balrog - beautiful! Glad Arondir is alright, hopefully he gets something meaningful to do next season.

I was sad for Kyle too, I don't even know why. He seems very endearing though. I have a feeling he'll be fine and understand why T.K had to go - he basically said in the episode itself that T.K. going off like that wasn't a good thing and was trying to play mediator. You're lying! Who the hell is that?! Are you me? Cause same thoughts on the players. I find most of the cast pretty likeable. Also from your post I learned that the aforementioned Genevieve is on the Red tribe, so thanks! Another reason I can't be on Survivor, I would lose my patience with these type of players immediately. Just peace and quiet for 1 minute, is that too much to ask. This^^ Q did some of this last season too, there have been many other "alpha" males who did it as well, and it annoyed me. 99% of the time (in this game), nobody wants to lose morons, you're not special. You've already lost, and then to hear these guys go on and on about how the rest of the tribe sucks, and your the only one that has the winner mindset, like shut up. How about we collectively take responsibility cause it was a tribe loss. I want to know why Anika is on the chopping block over on the yellow tribe though? She seems to do well in challenges and around camp, why her and not Rachel, if you want to keep Andy so badly Sam? Watching Sierra and Sam yell at Anika at the challenge, I was side eyeing them. Sam even said something along the lines of choke on the rope Anika, and she had to yell back that she was doing everything she could already. Props though to Sam for calming that team down and getting it together for the win. But what did we not see over at Gata with the dynamics? I find the entire Red team minus Rome, and plus a Genevieve?, to work really well at challenges and it's wonderful to see. My brother who watches with me was surprised that they did so well on both immunity challenges with not having the typical "alpha male" types on their team like TK, Gabe, Sam and Andy. They were the only tribe I believe who did not capsize their boat last week.

You said it better than I could. My cousin literally started watching this season because she listens to Pod Save America, and knows Jon from it. I was laughing so hard when he got voted out first.

The show definitely presented it as it was all Jon's fault - the girls were including him in a majority vote for Andy, and Jon wanted to make a move or do "something." Now, if all your speculations about them knowing how popular he is and what he does in the real world is true, then he had every right to feel threatened. But as presented on the show, he messed up himself. She still went with him and listened to him though! Why was he getting upset that she correctly was letting him know that maybe it's not a good idea to be seen as super close or having a connection right of the bat. There was a few moments when I was kind of scared for Rachel, because to me it seemed like Andy had created a relationship in his mind with Rachel and was getting pissed she was not responding they way he envisioned. ^This. If his anxiety is this bad day 1, how did he get through the interview process to be on the show? 💯 @Chicago Redshirt your whole post just perfect encapsulation of what I felt about Andy. I totally empathize with Andy, I have anxious thoughts myself, but I would never put myself in a situation like Survivor then. I understood when he was giving his voice overs and talking heads, I understood what he was going through but I was shocked he verbalized them to the rest of the cast. Before the Andy stuff, I was actually thinking how low key and regular this cast seemed overall, and then Andy not sleeping at night and Rachel, and coconut scenes happened and I was like, "Andy, no no no." Survivor always gets me in the end - haven't posted/watched it for a few seasons but here I am again. (Did watch last season though, and oh Bhanu)

I liked this episode too, but have to agree with you @Grimnar I feel something is just off about the writing. This show has all the ingredients to make it epic but it just falls alittle short every episode. The pacing of scenes and episodes doesn't help either. The about face of the Eregion elves from going to lock up Celebrimbor in his tower again, to being all "we stand with you" was so lame and again no build up. The beginning of the battle with the camera going through the Elves charging was great, and the troll looked really well done too. Also from what I understand, the Elven army is so small is because they sent half or more of them to Mordor already. I didn't think it was supposed to be all of the Elves showing up, just the ones that were still around while the other commanders had taken most of the army to Mordor. Celebrimbor, what a performance. I felt his confusion and horror when he saw what was actually happening to his city and what he had done. Also couldn't believe he cut off his own thumb to make sure no more rings. The mouse being MVP for waking Celebrimbor up. Sauron, was any of the I was a slave to Morgoth talk real or was he once again gaslighting Celebrimbor? Liked that he got called out on doing the same thing to others that apparently was done to him. Sauron's face when he was like, "thanks for the tips on how to make the rings, and it needing sacrifice. I will definitely keep that in mind when making my own, better version." Mardania - got done dirty. I feel the impact of her death and how Sauron made it seem that it was Celebrimbor's fault would have been soo much better if we spent more time with her and Celebrimbor. Sauron did say she would get what she deserved and then did that to her - evil evil. Elrond, stays the best character and performance for me, but the kiss was not needed. Awww, he's waiting for his friend to come. I still think the Dwarves will show up next episode. There is no way Arondir is dead, that would be a worse send off then Mardania for a character that was here since the first season and was built up so big. Galadriel has the rings now, Sauron will get his hands on them, so once again Galadriel is the reason everything is going to get worse on Middle Earth. lol why not give them to some random elf that Sauron wouldn't know. Did like that she acknowledged that she brought this on Eregion with bringing Halbrand to the city. Adar is getting a sword through the back from his Orcs next episode for sure.

I enjoyed this episode - so far every episode this season better than the last. Hopefully it keeps up for the last two. I can kinda see what this show is trying to do big picture but it still lacks in execution. They need to streamline the stories alittle more and be more in your face with time passing. Also Elrond better have a lot of screen time next episode seeing as he was missing in the last two basically. Galadriel, girl, gave up the info about the rings pretty fast, but she's not wrong with the idea that in the end Adar is providing Sauron the army he wants by bringing his children to him. That one particular orc, was definitely listening to Galadriel and Adar's conversation, and did not like Adar's dismissal of what Galadriel was saying. Are the Orc's going to turn on Adar by the last episode? Pretty sure Gandalf will pick saving Nori/Poppy and therefore fulfill his destiny, 2 for 1. Also I will say that listening to the RingerVerse podcast House of R, and The Fellowship of The Fans, and Nerd of the Rings on YouTube have really helped me understand some things overall. I only watched and read The Hobbit and LoTR, and have no knowledge of the other era's of Middle Earth. They call out stuff they don't like, but also are not just straight up hating everything, while providing lots of knowledge about this world.

I couldn't decide which reaction to give this because you nailed it! Five is my favorite too, but I felt the romance with Lila undermined him and his journey. I thought it was sad that to be happy Five's romantic partners were a mannequin and his sister-in-law, basically "I have no other choice" but them. Also nothing was resolved with the triangle, which I guess doesn't matter if they all are dying. Like did Lila really not have feelings for Five (which again is super sad for Five) at all, or was she totally out of love with Diego and her and Five would be a thing. I just don't really like the choice of going down a romance road with Five and Lila, I feel like it would have been better to keep it as a friendship. The writing was just not good enough for the short episode count this season.