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GRRM’s original outline had Jon/Arya falling in love, and Tyrion having some kind of deadly rivalry with Jon due to an unrequited crush on Arya right? Maybe GRRM did just decide to replace Arya with Dany when he realised the time jump wouldn’t work lol? I guess it’s possible that Tyrion’s betrayal isn’t so much trying to keep Dany off the throne, but trying to get her on it and dispose of Jon at the same time. Maybe Tyrion tries to fan the flames of discord when they get North, but that fizzles out when Winterfell is attacked and Dany and her dragons throw a big assist with their firepower? Maybe he also tries to convince Dany to ditch Jon when the parentage bomb drops but that doesn’t work either? Maybe then he decides that the only hope he has is for Jon to die, so he tries to orchestrate this during / after the final battle? If Tyrion was going to be involved in a betrayal and does end up dead, I would question why D&D have whitewashed him so much though. Perhaps they thought it would be better as a “shocking” reveal for the final season.

If Jon and Dany did die I don’t believe for a second that Sansa and Arya would just chill in the North and let Tyrion raise Jon’s kid, so I definitely think that “Tyrion is regent” option is bogus. I like Tyrion and Jon and want them both to live, but if I had to pick one to live I would prefer Jon. However, I don’t think the show has really given any sort of foreshadowing for Tyrion’s death has it? I could really only see this happening if Tyrion does betray Dany in s8 as some are speculating. Unfortunately Jon dying probably makes the most sense, if we assume Friki does know the ending. It does seem like a very GoT thing for Dany to eventually get the throne, but when she finally does it doesn’t make her happy as Jon is dead.

It seems like the Starks need to learn this lesson as well, after all season 6 showed us that the Starks are only okay with the North choosing a leader as long as the leader is a Stark. When Sansa and Jon went from house to house trying to get support to fight the Boltons (who had been named Wardens of theNorth by the KO7K), they were told by pretty much every Northern house excepts the Mormonts that they had no desire to fight Ramsey and were happy for him to stay in charge. Despite this, Sansa and Jon decided they had the right to try and reclaim Winterfell, even though the KO7K had given it to the Boltons. The Northern Lords only decided they were okay with a Stark being in charge once Jon had already won the battle and was obviously in a position of power. In fact, Sansa was so incensed that the Northerners did not want to fight for the Starks that she suggested Jon force children from their homes and give away the castles to others. This is clearly not the actions of someone who thinks people have a right to vote for any leader. She was advocating punishment for people who did not "vote" for her family. The Starks and Dany have exactly the same sense of entitlement, the only difference is the Starks think they are entitled to the North and Dany thinks she is entitled to the 7 Kingdoms. Does Sansa actually want to be Queen, especially during a war? If Sansa is declared QITN then as Queen she has a duty to be on the front lines fighting the AOTD. After all as Dany said, what sort of Queen isn't prepared to die for her people? A Queen who isn't willing to risk her life in battle would be the ultimate coward, similar to Joffrey during the Blackwater stuff. Last season Jon ordered all men, women and children to learn how to fight, however we never saw Sansa engaging in any kind of weapons training. In fact, when Sansa sentenced Littlefinger to death she didn't follow the Northern tradition of the one who passes the sentence swinging the sword, and passed the job off to Arya. She could have easily been the one to slit LF's throat, but it seems she has no interest in even minimal contact with weapons. Based on this I don't get the sense that Sansa plans on setting foot on a battlefield. She might be initially flattered if the Lords propose to name her QITN, but I think if she thought about it for a few minutes she might decide that now is not a great time for her to be QITN. Also, the Northern Lords are pretty cowardly. They grumbled last season but no one was actually prepared to call a vote or press Sansa's weak protestations that Jon was King. Even if they hate Dany and are pissed at Jon for bending the knee, they have proven themselves to be such weaklings that I would be surprised if any of them had the balls to tell Jon to his face that they are replacing him. I agree it's all going to be pretty much a moot point. We know that Winterfell gets attacked at the end of episode 2 / start of episode 3. Those first 2 episodes will probably be full of bitching, but then Winterfell will be under attack and the AOTD will be making its way closer to KL. People will have a hard enough time staying alive, there won't be too much time for politicking.

Maybe D&D have decided on a Soprano's style ending lol: Jon and the NK stare at each other, millimetres apart. They raise their weapons in preparation for the final parry, both knowing that the war is about to end, the only uncertainty is who will be the victor. They strike at the same time....then fade to black. We don't know who wins, who dies, who ends up together etc. In all seriousness, I have always thought it was quite likely the Big 5 survive because GRRM's initial outline seemed to imply that they did. Of course he could have changed his mind over the years, but the fact the his initial plan seemingly involved them all surviving would suggest he was leaning towards some sort of typical happy ending. I also thought that once s7 happened and Jon and Dany fell in love, it was probable that they would end up ruling together in some capacity. The main reason for this being that there don't seem to be any other viable candidates for endgame ruler, and both of their journeys have dealt with learning to rule, making mistakes and earning loyalty etc. more than any other characters on the show. I just keep coming back to, if Jon and Dany die or bunk off to live away from Westeros, who would rule? I can't see people supporting Tyrion because he has always been looked down on for being a dwarf (and frankly he sucked so hard as Hand in s7 that any claims of him being cleverer than the other contenders no longer apply imo). Gendry might have Baratheon blood but he is an illiterate fleabottom bastard, so again Westerosi prejudices would suggest people won't support him. Sansa is a woman without the same bloodlines as recent Kings/Queens and she isn't psychotic like Cersei and doesn't command hard power (i.e. dragons and an army of devoted followers) like Dany, so prevailing Westerosi misogyny would suggest people also wouldn't support her as Queen. Is there anyone else with either bloodline or alleged leadership qualities that could be a contender? I guess one of Jon/Dany could die and the other could live, raise the kid and rule. If that is what happens in the end I think there is more chance of Jon dying simply because he's already died once, and the only reason Mel revived him was for the fight against the dead. If Jon kills the NK then he arguably fulfils his purpose. But I don't want Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Bran or Sansa to die, so I'm going to live in my bubble of hope until we get any legit spoilers suggesting any of them die lol. It seems pretty certain that Jaimie dies, which I think most people were already expecting. Cersei is surely going out in a blaze of scenery chewing madness. Sam, as GRRM's stand in, is certain to survive and write his history book and hopefully finally marry Gilly. I'm pulling for Davos and Brienne to make it through, but everyone else I don't mind too much either way.

If the s8 ending is universally panned, I wonder how that would impact the spinoff? It seems the reaction to the spinoff that received the pilot order was lukewarm at best anyway.

Ah gotcha. Although I do think the IT will probably be destroyed, either in the KL battle or purposely as a kind of "the past sucked, so we are destroying this evil chair to symbolise a better future" type deal.

I think a Targ restoration is 100% certain based on the anvils from s7. D&D were not subtle and even joked about Jon’s desire to impregnate Dany on the commentary. Again, that doesn’t guarantee that DJ both survive, although I am pulling for them to both live.

The Northern Lords have consistently been shown to be morons so I’m sure we can count on them to 1) call Dany a foreign whore, 2) bleat about how she’s an untrustworthy Targaryen and 3) make Xenophobic comments about Dany’s non-white army. Smart people would probably keep their mouth shut when 50k plus people show up to save their asses, but then again no one can accuse those Lords of being smart. It will be satisfying to see them choke on some of their words when Jon’s parentage is revealed. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Glover or one of the other idiots starts banging on about Rhaegar kidnapping and raping Lyanna and Targs being evil, then Jon/Bran drops a truth bomb. Also, odds are a few of them will be killed in gruesome fashion at the Winterfell battle. The ones remaining alive will probably be quick to suck up to Dany after thry see her dragons in action.

Yeah, Arya has been shown to be a human lie detector. So if the show is consistent she will be able to tell very quickly that Jon loves Dany, Dany loves Jon, and Dany is genuine in her desire to help Jon and the North defeat the NK. She also has two dragons and commands an army of unsullied and Dothraki, which Arya will probably think is pretty cool. Once Arya establishes that Dany doesn’t have any dark intentions towards Jon, I don’t see much reason for Arya not to be okay with her.

I think the chances of a Sansa/Tyrion evil betrayal plot are pretty slim. The main thread of Sansa’s story in s7 was a will she / won’t she betray Jon and try to take power for herself, and she chose family over power etc. It would be tedious to have to deal with that again in s8, not to mention Arya would likely slit Sansa’s throat if she sensed the betrayal. Also, Tyrion and Sansa seem to have more brains than to try and overthrow J/D in the middle of the war with the NK, especially since the two of them are not fighters.

But what exactly has Sami done in her past visits that constitutes her being shackled to Lucas and Kate and constantly talking about their history anyway? The last time she was in town the majority of Lucas and Sami's scenes together were discussing their son who had just retuned from the dead. It would be ludicrous for them not to have scenes together to discuss their now-alive son. IIRC they also had a couple of scenes where Sami mentioned Lucas' relapse, and she was able to finally convince him to get sober again and go to rehab by encouraging him and telling him his kids need him etc. Again, Sami expressing concern and support or her friend of 20 years and the father of two of her children is a natural thing to do. Sami had plenty of scenes with John and Marlena, Will, Eric, Rafe etc. on her last visit, so it's not like she was sitting in the corner and only allowed to interact with Lucas and Kate.

Yeah, I think the Jon/Sansa hug is a safe, no-CGI required, thing for HBO to show in the promo. We already know Jon is heading back to Winterfell where Sansa is, and we have already seen their actual big reunion in s6. Seeing a quick welcome hug between those two is nothing new, compared to the anticipated Jon/Arya reunion and people finally meeting Dany etc. I thought we had confirmation from somewhere that there was a behind the scenes documentary being filmed in Seville while the filming was going on? So it was suggested that some of the actors from past seasons who showed up in Seville may have been participating in the documentary?

Trust it to be a Sansa scene in the promo that will get analyzed to death for the next year lol!

I agree, there are so many different “groups” out there that inevitably there will be heaps of people who hate it no matter what. There are the DJ shippers who want them to end up ruling together with their kid, the “anti-Disney” brigade who want one or both of DJ to die so the ending isn’t too happy, the Jon fanboys who just want him alive and in charge (and don’t care if Dany lives or dies as long as she is subservient to him), the Stark fans who want the Starks to triumph over everyone and rule an independent North etc. The brave quote could also be referencing Jaime’s death or the destruction of the iron throne.

That quote suggests a Jon death more than a Dany death imo. Although, once again, I think it’s hard to really gauge anything from a vague interview. “Brave” could just as easily it’s a happy “Disney” ending where all the good guys live and an aunt and her nephew get married and have a baby.

I think they will just ignore everything to do with realistic timelines, kind of like s7. Although it would be hysterical if Dany finds out she is pregnant in ep 2 and then in ep 3 she and Jon are suddenly running around after a toddler lol.

Revisiting Sweet Valley Confidential (and the SVH series) made me realise just how creepy Todd's relationship with the twins is. Like, in the evil twin miniseries when Todd and Jess are semi-dating because they are mad at Liz for the Sam thing (even though Jess spiked Liz's drink!), Todd has all these moments where he loves up on Jess specifically because he is missing Liz and he is sort of using Jess as a substitute because they are identical. Later in the series Todd is supposed to be going on a date with Liz, but he thinks she is acting weird so it might be Jess pretending to be Liz, but he decides to make out with whichever twin is on the date anyway. Then in SVC we learn that Jess and Todd had an affair in college, after Liz and Todd reunited for the 100th time. However, the affair started because Liz was sick and asked Jess to pretend to be her and go to a party with Todd (Todd knew Jess was being Liz but everyone else thought it was really Liz). Todd and Jess had fun faking being a couple and were acting all schmoopy, and Jess pretending to be Liz turned them both on so much that they slept together. So the first time they have sex is after Jess has spent the whole night pretending to be Liz??? Then Todd and Jess end up getting married and having a kid, but they separate for a while. One of their big issues is Todd doesn't like Jess's career and would prefer she was a stay at home mum. If having a wife be a SAHM was something Todd wanted, I don't know why he married Jess because I never would have picked her as someone who would be a SAHM. I swear they should have been daring and ended the series with Todd married to both Jess and Liz in a sister-wife scenario. Todd seems like he wants both the fun and exciting side of Jess but also the caring and stable side of Liz. And let's be real, the twins are codependent messes who cannot function without the other, so they would probably be perfectly okay with the whole thing.

Oh yeah sorry, Qyburn. All those grizzly, creepy old white guys kind of bleed together lol!

One reason I would have thought we might see Tycho again was solely so Cersei can have someone else to talk to. With Jaime gone she's left with only Pycelle as her constant companion, which seems a tad boring. I guess Euron could turn up at some point demanding a wedding and whatnot, and perhaps Cercei will have a scene with someone from the GC? Or maybe Cersei really does end up with someone as a prisoner after the Winterfell battle and that poor sucker will have to listen to her monologuing all damn day?

I swear we heard something about that Gatiss guy filming really early on didn't we? From WOTW or one of those websites that appears to have some kind of "in" with production and is usually quite reliable? As such, I think every leak so far has made sure to include a reference to Cercei or Euron having another discussion with the Iron Bank. Or am I getting this guy mixed up with someone else, or s7 mixed up with s8 lol?

Jon more than likely doesn't want to father a bastard, but you seem to be missing the point that he can marry Dany and thus their child would not need to be a bastard. They are both single and in love, so there's nothing preventing a J/D marriage when Dany inevitably turns up pregnant. Besides, the dragon pit scene was basically just Jon flirting with Dany and telling her that he would be more than willing to put a baby in her given half a chance. Seems like he's pretty keen on knocking her up, and given his past comments must have therefore put some thought into marrying her. Considering Jon has had sex with one girl and that was about 4 years ago now, I don't see why he wouldn't be a little bit nervous seducing anyone, queen or commoner. He's never exactly been a suave ladies man. Poor guy was probably afraid he was going to embarrass himself. So Jon is going to let the world know he's Rhaegar's legitimate son, take the Targ name openly, use it to become KO7K, maybe even ride a dragon, yet secretly he's going to be all "Targ's suck, I'm a Stark only until my dying days"? That basically makes it seem like Jon thinks the Stark name is too embarrassing and not enough of a cache to use openly if he's all about denying the Stark side of himself in public. Also, Starks practice avuncular marriage, like Jon and Dany would be, so it's not like his family would bat an eye if he decided to marry the Dany.

I thought that conversation between Theon and Jon was a damn anvil, because there was absolutely no need for them to have that dialogue if it wasn't going to be foreshadowing for Jon. There doesn't seem to be any logical reason why Jon can't embrace being both a Stark and a Targ, and it would be a bit of a slap in his dead mother's face if he turned away from his Targ side since she seemed to think it was so important that she gave him the most Targ name to ever Targ. Bran will be able to explain that Rheagar and Lyanna were in love and got married, so Jon will know Rhaegar wasn't a rapist. Both R&L's conduct was far from perfect, but that didn't stop Jon loving Ned when he though Ned broke his marriage vows. From what we know R&L would have been loving parents to Jon if they hadn't died, so there's no reason he can't think of them both fondly. Plus, Jon has known two Targs and loved and respected both of them so it's not like he's holding onto the same "all Targ's are evil" prejudices that some of the other Lords have. Also, Jon has continually stated since season 1 that he's not a Stark, and said it again last season (at the same time he got swooped by a dragon, in a very anvil-laden moment). He could have easily given himself the Stark last name after being crowned KITN, but he didn't. It would have made better sense politically for him to no longer have a bastard name, but for whatever reason he didn't change his name. In the books Jon has dreams that the king statues tell him he doesn't belong in the Stark crypts. He turns down Stannis' request to be excused from his NW vows and be legitimised as a Stark. Basically, every time Jon has the opportunity to be a "proper" Stark he holds himself back, probably his subconscious (or GRRM) preventing him from going full-Stark because that's not who he really is. I think the logical conclusion to Jon's arc is to accept both sides of his heritage. He will probably always identify more strongly with the Stark side since he was raised in the North and will surely still consider the Starks his siblings, but that doesn't prevent him from accepting the Targ side as well. If the Northerners are going to shun Jon for being evil dragonspawn then wouldn't he be run out of the North anyway? Hiding out in Winterfell would be a danger to Sansa's rule because the Northern Lords would surely turn on her pretty quickly for harbouring dragonspawn. Jon would either have to leave the North or risk the Starks being overthrown as leaders because of their association with his evil Targ self. S7 showed that Dany eventually acquiesced to every single suggestion/request that Jon made. She let him mine dragonglass, she followed his advice not to attack the red keep with her dragons, she withdrew her objection to him going on the wight hunt, and she agreed to go North and help him fight the NK before he bent the knee. If Jon told Dany point blank that he would marry her to unite their competing claims to the throne, but only on the condition that she had to cease burning people with her dragons and let the North be independent, based on s7 she would probably agree to those terms in the space of 1 or 2 episodes.

So if someone breaks Dany's anti-rape rule she has rape on her hands and must be punished for the actions of someone she can't control? That seems pretty harsh, but if that's how things work then Dany can't be the only one held accountable. Given rape and murder seem to occur pretty often in Westeros (including in the North), I would imagine Jon and Sansa etc. would also need to be in line to be punished for the actions of all Northerners. If Lyanna Mormont does try to assassinate Dany as you are predicting, what punishment will the Starks receive for having attempted murder on their hands? So If Jon forces Sansa into an arranged marriage to benefit his political position, he's being shrewd and pragmatic, yet if Dany does the same thing it's an example of her ruling by fear and will end with her burning down Winterfell in a fit of rage? I am honestly quite curious now, you have stated your predictions about Dany burning Winterfell and having a dance with dragons with Jon, but what is your prediction for the ending? Who wins the dance, and does the loser die? If you think Jon lives, do you imagine he will stay in the North or end up King of 7K? And who will he end up marrying? Do you think Dany will be pregnant with Jon's baby given the anvils in s7? If so, what happens to the baby? What do you think Sansa and Arya's endgames are?

Agreed. Dany also told Theon and Yara that the ironborn had to stop raping, if memory serves me. So given that condition and Dany's well documented abhorrence of rape, I think it's likely the dothraki were given a similar talk about rape not being acceptable. So based on this logic, Jon should force Sansa and Arya into marriage with important lords to secure Northern allies or else he is too soft to be king? I can see Dany burning Winterfell, but only because its overrun with wights and Jon gives her instructions to do so. A situation where Dany forces Tyrion/Sansa to marry to give herself non-existent political capital, then decides to burn the whole place down anyway because..reasons, seems incredibly unlikely and not at all consistent with the filming reports we have.

I have to admit I'm a little baffled at the idea that GRRM is a massive misery-lover who is purposely going to give every main character a terrible ending just because he can, and that he is some master trope breaker / trope subverter. IMO GRRM follows all the standard fantasy tropes to a tee. Jon is the secret prince who grew up as a commoner, Dany is the exiled princess. Ned/Jeor are the father figures who have to die for the hero to "become a man" etc. Honestly, there's not a great deal of difference between GOT and Harry Potter in the grand scheme of things. Harry has things just as bad as Jon - orphan, physically and mentally abused by his remaining family, all his mentors die, both keep trying to stop a mass murderer from taking over the world etc. Hell, Harry has some kind of weird semi-death thing when he has the battle with Voldemort at the end, so he and Jon have that in common too. Bad things don't happen to Jon and the rest of the GOT characters because GRRM is some evil genius mastermind, they happen because bad things always happen to fantasy characters and GRRM is playing by the well-established rules. Like, Ned was always going to die because Jon can't become a man with him alive. Robb was always a goner too because he's competition for Jon, and the decks needed to be clear for Jon to become KITN and then KOT7K etc. Cat was always going to suffer greatly because it's her karmic payback for being mean to the hero. Even Dany, who is given much more of her own POV than most fantasy love interests, is created almost solely to be perfect partner for Jon. She is the most beautiful woman in the world (because the hero might be able to date an ugly girl i.e. Ygritte but he certainly can't marry her), she has dragons that Jon needs in his fight against the NK, she had a shitty childhood and like Jon really just wants to have a happy loving family life with husband and kids, she thinks herself to be barren so Jon can swoop in with his super sperm and heroically impregnate her, and she has the same super special Targ blood as him so they can have magic Targ babies together and "keep the bloodline pure". Even any "questionable" decisions she makes will just be a way for Jon to show her the error of her ways, and his hero status will always mean she comes round to seeing that he's right (e.g. Dany listens to Jon when he tells her not to burn KL, she lets him mine dragonglass, she agrees to go north to fight the NK and tells him she should have listened to him from the start). There's certainly no guarantee that Jon and Dany will survive s8, because heroes and their love interest can die tragic, heroic deaths. However, I think it's pretty clear that Jon and Dany are your standard fantasy couple who will only be separated by death, and their aunt/nephew relationship reveal will barely be a blip on the radar. And even if one or both of them dies, their kid is 100% surviving because there is no way Targ restoration is not happening.