ILoveReading

So many great posts anaylizing Dean's state of mind. Too many to quote. I agree if Dean neither needed, or wanted anything from John and made peace with his past and is good with who he is then why would there be a need for Dean's "heart desire" to bring John back. The only thing that even remotely would make sense is if he wished he could say goodbye because he's going in the box. So there was a big disconnect with this episode. It would have made more sense if it was Sam's wish.

https://za.ign.com/supernatural/129388/feature/why-supernaturals-300th-episode-is-a-starting-point-not-an-e Okay this is a huge red flag for me because of the way Dabb sees the brothers. I said it before, Prophet and Loss= Point of No Return.

You could be right. I only watched it once too. I just figured it was a cursed object since it was found with the other cursed objects in the guys shop. But cursed or magical they should have a least had a conversation about how these things never go right.

I wonder if the original plot of the episode was suppose to be Baby getting stolen and interacting with the towns people while chasing down leads. I don't think the pearl was actually removing Michael. I'm still trying to figure out why Sam would even suggest the pearl in the first place since they aren't naive anymore and know that using a cursed object will never work the way you want it too. Why wouldn't Dean wonder where Michael would go before wishing. I think Dean still believes his fate is to end up at the bottom of the ocean. I also don't believe Dean would wish Michael out of his head if they didn't have a way to stop him. So, I think the pearl read Dean's mind about wishing he could see his dad one last time before it becomes necessary.

This wouldn't really be true. It seems to me that John and Dean were in contact with each other, even if they were separated,, even if its 'heading to ABC town in Kansas to hunt a wendigo, or Dean telling John, he was headed to XYZville in Florida to hunt a spirit. So if John disappeared in 2003, Dean would have a starting place. Its not different then 2005. Dean had the same amount of information. Working a case in a town. Whatever town John said he was in last. With what family means to Dean I don't think the reason or how big the case or the reason. All he would see was that his dad was missing. the 22 year cycle seemed to be when Azazel started a new generation but there is nothing to say that any of his chosen kids had to be 22 before things started. There seemed to be no real set in stone timeline, given the fact that they were originally waiting willing to wait 10 years for Dean. When Dean made the deal for Sam, they moved up the timeline by 9 years. I don't think 2 years really would have been that big a deal as to when things stared. The angels had been planning this for generations they were waiting for the opportunity, Not a specific date and John going missing was that opportunity. IMO, this mess started because John went missing, so to say that John going missing changed everything is some major bad level lazy writing.

I find this the biggest WTF moment in the episode. It was John's disappearance that prompted Dean to got to Standford and ask Sam for his help. If John went missing in 2003 vs 2005 why would Dean's actions be any different. It was literally John going missing that put everything in motion. "Dad's on a hunting trip and hasn't been home in a few days, is a pretty iconic moment. (Unless this is something else Dabb wants to erase. I also find this a contradcition with what we told overall. Sam was yellow eye's favorite but he wasn't the only person earmarked by him. That was the point of the battle royal. So even if Sam never starts back hunting, one of the other psychic kids should have chosen. Plus the AU world was a mirror to our right up until Mary not making a deal and the apocalypse happened. In that universe Sam and Dean weren't there to stop it. So why would it happen in the AU without Sam and Dean's actions but not in the altered timeline?

That's why I say there is no more room for Dean. He's just another flunkie to worship at the altar of Chief, the supreme leader of the known and unknown universe.

What is the point of Dean even being on this show anymore? He has no role. Sam is the leader, the mentor, the trainer, the organizer, the researcher, the lore expert and the weapons expert. Dabb is erasing Dean's legacy. He cheapened the kill and the mythology of the Yellow Eyed Demon and Cain by creating a hybrid adn gave one to Sam and one to Cas to kill. He did the same with Zacheriah. Even if Dean comes across as a leader its all because of Jensen and his dominate screen presence, the show will certainly never acknowledge him as a leader. If Dean retires the next generation of hunters are being trained, lead and mentored by Sam. I'm 99% sure Lucifer will be back (not spoiler just spec based on their obsession with the character). So that nullifies his sacrifice for taking out Lucifer (not that the show will acknowledget that). They woudln't even give Dean credit for the yellow eyed, demon kill. Dean's got closure now with Mary, and John, There are a multiple excuses why his trauma doesn't need to be address, nor will it ever be addressed. Because he thrives on it and has antibodies. They really can't write anymore Dean needs to see Sam as a big boy and let go stories anymore because they've been done to death. They will never let Dean stand up for himself against Sam. So really what is the point of Dean even being on this show anymore. There really is no role for him to fulfill, except Sam's flunkie, which Sam doesn't even really need because he can do it all. So there really is no where to go for Dean's character anymore. While, I don't think Jensen would really leave the show, it very much feels like Dean's story is done. There is not really any more room for growth.

Jack in the Box, seriously? How I wish your spec was right @catrox14 Absence is written by Beren's. So little miss Sue will probably be back looking for her spear.

But I disagree. I find Dean is the most open character on the show and wears his heart on his sleeve. He asked Andrea if they could talk to Lucas and he opened up about his feelings about his mom. I remember him calling Bobby as asked for his help when he was worried about Sam. He called John in Home. "I need your help Dad." He's had meaningful conversations with Cas. I loved the ones they had at the end of Great Pumpkin He's appealed to God for help several times. The problem is often times when Dean asks he doesn't get an answer, and Mary is no exception. I agree and in my opinion this is how Jensen is playing it. He loves Mary but I don't really see him thinking she is someone he can count on.

I feel bad for the people at SeaCon.

Last I heard, they wanted a younger Batman. But there are so many other cool parts for Jensen. Like Adam Warlock in Guardians of the Galaxy 3*. Adam is a Genetically engineered perfect human. No better for Jensen. Topic- I really hope we get some teasers from Jensen about Dean at the con this weekend. *I don't actually know if that is the plot of GOTG 3, but the post credits screen hinted at it.

Believe me, I'm dreaming too.

As much as I would love that, and it would explain his radio silence lately, I really don't see him not seeing it through to the end.

They filmed out of order. Episode 14- Looks to be Jack centric, and him starting to turn evil. I guess that's why its called Obourous. It's too bad because its written by Yockey. Then they filmed episode 16. Don't go Into the Woods. Its' written by Perez and Nick Vaught (not sure what his job is on the show). I read on twitter its about the teens. Dabb said something about them recurring and how we would see more of of Lebanon. I figure this will be a typical monster of the week. The teens will try to decide to hunt. They'll get in over their head, Sam and Dean will go to their rescue. Episode 15 is Peace of Mind. And just finished filming. Ugh, if Dabb's assistant wrote the ep where Michael gets loose. I'm guessing this will be the ep that takes place in the psychic's mind. Jensen also barely filmed. If Austin sightings are accurate, Jensen filmed two days at most. According to a Tumblr post he was spotted on at a restaurant in Austin last Wednesday and didn't film all week. So the spoiler about "our guys being in a pychics mind" was Sam and Cas. Not Sam and Dean. I have no idea where Dean is for this ep. But he's not with Sam and Cas. But if Michael does get loose and the spoiler about the teens is accurate, then its going to be strange that he threatens to burn down the world and Sam and Dean are off playing nanny to annoying teenagers instead of letting "chief" AU hunters deal with the insignificant thing. So I'm hoping that episode 15, and 16 will be more MOTW since they have new writers, and that episode 17 will be the one to deal with Michael since its called Game Night. Michael does like to play games. I'd like to see some the tole keep an arch angel locked up has on Dean. Is he experiencing headaches, trouble sleeping, etc. Maybe episode 15 he has to stay back because of what Michael is doing to him. No, I would not be upset or think that would make Dean look weak, because i want to see this story play out on screen. Not become non-existent like Michael's plan to crush Dean by letting him think he was free. That was so non-existent no one, not even Dean noticed or cared. I'm also hoping 15 minute be Dean light filler because Jensen has a heavy episode coming up. Hopefully someone will ask Jensen at the con this weekend what's coming up for Dean.

That's a good catch. Also can't let Dean hold Michael for too long, can't show he's too strong. Or Michael might possess Jack, because it seems like he went evil awfully quick.

https://www.tvguide.com/news/supernatural-season-14-andrew-dabb-michael-return/ Here is where they turn the story over to Sam. Let me guess he'll decide the best way to get to Dean is to kill Sam. Yay, more Lucifer so that Deans' sarcifice meant nothing. (sarcasm)

I still feel like Dabb wants to turn Sam into Dean. Yet another iconic Dean moment cheapened and given to Sam. He got the "smarts" of the episode to by using the angel symbol. Dabb couldnt' even have John acknowledge that it was Dean that ended the yellow eyed demon. It's why I hated the end of Prophet and Loss. It felt far too much like Point of No Return where Dean was thrown out of his own storyline. At least, for now, Michael is focused on Dean but I'm sure it will Sam who gets the big sarcifice while Dean learns to let go. It will be a plan similar to Dean's but everyone will think Sam is the bravest, specialist snowflake ever because of it. I have a feeling we are going to be getting a reverse of season 7 with Dean the last one standing. Something happy will happen and Cas will drop dead, but it will actually turn out to be short lived. Then Jack will go evil, Sam will sacrifice himself, (and it won't be called a ridiculous, suicidal plan). Dean certainly won't get a "word vomit" desperation, punch Sam to change his mind scen. If he does he'll just look clingy and not having any trust or faith in Sam. Jared only tends to get excited when things are about Sam and he's been tweeting up a storm these days after years of silence. I wonder if Dabb infomed him Sam gets to be the BDH. The final is being written by SuperSam, weak sloppy Dean Dabb so I'll be shocked if its anything else.

Not sure of the best thread to put this in but I thought I would put it here. (We need a Jensen thread). Does anyone else find it a little strange that Jensen didn't really acknowledge the s15 renewal and basically made one obligatory post about the 300th. I know its subjective but I thought his post sounded a little lackluster, especially when compared to the things others were posting. I'm not saying anything is going on. I know that he didn't tweet last year, but he didn't even really like any of the s15 posts. (I think Misha's was the only one). Everyone had been making multiple tweets and Jensen's was an old recycled photo and he only tagged Danneel and said happy 300. The whole posted sounded like he did it because it was expected. Usually he's so appreciative of the fans and the crew, I would have thought he might have said something about them. It's probably nothing and me reading to much into things, but it just seems a little odd.

I didn't hate it, but found I was mostly bored. It was obvious JDM coming back was a ratings gimmick and not really decided to address anything that really needed addressing. I found this episode mostly left me cold and lacked all the heart and emotion it was supposed to have . Because they had JDM for 10 minutes, 12 at most. The only one who really got any kind of significant moment was Sam. But even then I felt it was mostly a rehash of his conversation with John in The Song Remains the Same. I don't begrudge Sam time with John but I would have liked Dean to at least get an apology too. But he thrives on trauma so I guess he never needed it addressed, well this Dean fan does. Because of the retcon of it being Heaven that put John and Mary together, I don't see their love story as one for the ages either. They were together because Heaven manipulated them. They hated each other and wouldn't have even gotten together if not for that. Their love was artificial to start. So the big reuniion really doesn't work for me. Especially with how easy Mary falls for any man she meets. Plus, Mary certainly had no problem reconnecting with John, despite the fact that he had changed, and she certainly jumped into into the kitchen fast enough for him. There was that big WTF with the apocalypse. If John went missing in 2003, it just seems like Dean would have gone to see Sam two years earlier. Plus what about all the other psychic kids. If Sam and Dean weren't involved wouldn't Azazel have just used one of them. Other than Sam saying good bye I don't' feel like it covered any new ground. The teens were annoying cliches. I don't understand Dabb's obsession with them. I'm sure we'll see them again (Spec not spoiler because Dabb thinking another potential spinoff. This was written before Mark Pedowitz said they probably wouldn't' try again). The car stealing girls seemed like a Claire clone. There were a few things I liked. Dean knowing all the town people. It's typical of Dean to be able to adapt where ever he ends up. I liked that the post office girl couldn't resist him. Don't feel bad Marta, most people would have done that same thing. I liked Deans' speech. While it does seem selfish, sending John back, that part doesn't' really bother me because we know that messing with the time line has consequences so it doesn't mean that worse things wouldn't' happen in the future. I agree with @Bergamot about the "We saved the world" stuff. That's why Sam's speech at the end of last week was so stupid. Dean wants to sacrifce himself to save the world and Sam's way of trying to change him mind, was 'Don't save the world Dean because we're the guys that save the world." Do the writers not see this stuff or do they just ignore it. But that seems to be part of the turning hunting into a fantasy and a game that anyone can play. It sticks out once more that Dean seems to be the only one who still seen hunting as a lonely hard life. It's jarring. And I liked it better when hunting was in the shadows and they didn't brag about it every Tom, Dick and Harry. My thoughts about the Cas/Zacheriah scene belong in Bitch/Jerk.

This, but its also the timing that is giving me the biggest WTF moment. Not even a week ago, Sam begged Dean to tempt fate.

I'd have more respect for Mary if she told Sam and Dean she doesn't see herself as their mother rather than it trying to pretend she is a good mother and the failing is on Dean's part . I find Mary neither badass or mothering. She's comes across as an ice queen that only cares about finding a man. First she chose Ketch and Brits over her sons. Then she choose the AU people over , but once they were back and she could hook up with Bobby, and basically abandoned the people she wanted to abandon her sons for. Now that John is back, Bobby Who? Do the writers really think Mary is coming off warm and loving because of a scene here and there. (This is meant as a rhetorical question).

If Sam knows Dean is only a nanosecond behind him, and he wants Dean to get his hearts desire, why doesn't he let Dean bask in it before bringing up the negative consequences. Shouldn't he be confidant that Dean will bring this up if they are on the same page. It's the same thing as Sam did when Mary came back. Dean knew that Mary was having trouble but he wanted to enjoy her presence for awhile before bringing up the heavy stuff. Why can't Sam just let Dean have a moment to breath before he starts. Dean knows. He doens't need to be lectured.

The red flag there is the word "growth" That is often applied to Dean when he learns a very special lesson that he doesn't appeciate the things his family does/did to him enough.

Let's see how I do with these dialogue teases. So you’ve been busy.- John to the boys The skull of Sarah Goode.- Sam I wouldn’t do that if I were you.- Zacheriah They always talk too much.- Random teens I have a family.- AU Cas I’m freaking out.- We know this was Dean. Don’t drink coffee and stick to a raw food diet. - Dean February 7th. That’s skip day.- Dean Baby, Baby! Please tell me you’re not hurt.- John to Mary We should burn that right now.- Sam God bless kale.- Sam C’mon Constantine.- Dean You fought for us, and you loved us.- Dean to Cas, during the begging scene. Or Dean to John during his one one one. But Dean didn't really mess with the timeline. He made a wish to get rid of Michael, but the pearl read his mind. Dean using the pearl is a direct result of him giving into Sam last week. Dean wanted to go into the box to avoid tempting fate. Sam's kind a hypocrite to be lecturing him about tempting fate. It's not like he deliberately bought John back.