ILoveReading

A moment they recreated for Sam. They created a Cain/Yellow Eyed demon hybrid just so Sam could kill him and then with Michael's spear no less. Sam got the slow mo kill with the colt when he took out the alpha vampire. Yup. No matter what they create for Dean its only a matter of time before the repeat it for Sam, but only with far more bells, whistles and focus.

Filming beings July 12

I just feel like if all Sam needed was something to remind him of Dean, that made Dean himself redundant. We can agree to disagree.

They why did they credit the car in the voice over?

The toy solider ruined any chance of me seeing Dean as having played any part in Swan Song. The most important thing was the initial break through that allowed Sam to take control. That wasn't Dean. The way the episode was filmed an edited gave the most important part to the car and the toy. I have a friend who summed it up nicely. Imagine if Dean treated the solider like Sam treated the amulet and kept it in the glove compartment, Dean would be dead, because it was the toy that stopped the killing blow. Not Dean himself. So Dean's physical presence in that cemetery had no effect on Sam. Cas, Bobby, John, and now Mary didn't need a prop. So why did Sam, whose supposed to have the strongest connection to Dean need one? That logic never made sense to me. The show has never acknowledged Dean's contribution. We've never heard Sam say, "if it wasn't for you Dean, i could never have done that. " Instead we get 9.01 were Sam gives himself full credit and calls Dean a halfwit who didn't do jack. Even Dean saying no to Michael didn't matter because there was a perfectly acceptable replacement with Adam and in the end all Sam needed was to see his toy. I would have preferred the original ending. If Sam and Dean were both vesselled they didn't actually have to fight, they both could have overcame their vessels and jumped in the pit. I don't think that is cheesy at all.

I admit my feelings are contradictory because I feel Dean showing up turned the tide, but I disliked everything that came after it. The solider was so unnecessary because you don't need something to represent Dean if Dean was right there. It was filmed and edited in such a way that makes it far to easy to dismiss Dean's contributions. Given the number of blogs, reviews and posts I read that credited the car and the solider shows its not just "bitter Dean girls" who saw it that way. Even the voice over gave more credit to the car. Calling the car, the most important object in the universe, to me, speaks volumes about authorial intent. That Kripke meant for people to see the car has having the important role in that scene. Not Dean.

Then by this logic wasn't Dean the one that saved the world in s5. Because when Sam couldn't wrestle control right away he seemed to stop fighting. So Cas, Bobby and Sam to that extent all gave up. Dean's strength of character that he wouldn't let Sam die alone, led him to the cemetery where him showing up turned the tide of that battle. (Bringing response over from unpopular opinion thread as its more on topic here.

My apologies as well. I'll move my post to the appropriate thread.

moving response to Bitch/Jerk

I disagree those are really Dean "giving up." Because I don't define that as giving up. For example, you have two people learning to play the piano. Both are struggling and having a really hard time. One person says, "I quit, I'll never learn, I'm done." So the instructor says, points out they had an easier time reading music this week. So despite needing a pick me up they keep showing up for lessons. Person 2, does the same thing but quits. I don't consider the first scenario, giving up, just needing a little help to get over the hump. People doubt themselves and their abilities all the time, they might even think something is too hard, but unless they just completely walk away I don't define that as giving up. There is nothing wrong with needing a helping hand. That's how I look at those scenarios. Dean's one person, he tends to carry the weight of the world on his shoulders and somethings that weight catches up to him and problems look insurmountable. He doesn't think he's strong enough. So if he wants to step back and needs a pep talk, I don't consider that the same things as Dean giving up. Even in Meet the New Boss. When Bobby showed up with a lead, Dean jumped up to help. It was his idea to trap death. Croatoan he was willing to die with Sam, but he made sure all the others got out first. What is... he went to help people before he realized he was trapped in with a fantasy land and he questioned whether what they did was worth it, but he still showed up on hunts. He didn't give up. Im drawing a blank on Mannequin 3 but if your referring to Lisa and Ben, then Dean felt he was a danger to them (that turned out to be right, as they used them to get to Dean), so him not thinking he's not good for him itsn't really giving up. So that's why I say Dean never gives up, because he's willing to join the fight in the end, even if he needs a little help to get there. For me, there are two time I would appy give up. That is when Dean was in hell and Sam's plan to trade himself didn't work, I feel like he did give up on Dean. He stopped trying to save Dean after that and just started following Ruby down the rabbit hole and season 8 when Sam just shut his phone off and walked away.

Id definitely take Dean for a number of reasons. He's smart, scrappy and a good fighter. He's taken out opponents that are faster and stronger. He doesn't give up He's good at improvising and coming up with out of the the box plans when backed into a corner. He can talk himself out of a bad situation. Like others have pointed out if all that fails I'd die in his arms.

It reminds me of what Dean told Jo back in s2, No Exit. " Woman can do the job just fine. Amateurs can't." What I liked about No Exit is Jo suddenly wasn't this expert hunter. She made a lot of rookie mistakes and would have been dead without Sam and Dean's experience. I'm guessing that Jo's experience is probably what most rookie hunters experience. Like, Dean said, get good fast or get dead faster. That's not to say that Jo doesn't have potential or wouldn't be a good hunter, but she learned a valuable lesson. She didn't know everything and she needed backup. we were told that Sam and Dean trained their whole lives, their childhoods were sacrificed to learning. To have someone be a good hunter by downloading an app or becoming a ninja overnight I find it make a mockery out of everything Sam and Dean sacrificed to get where they are. In Freaks and Geeks we saw a concept similar to the WayWard Sisters concept in which Victor took in Kids who lost their parents (I know VIctor was the bad guy, so I'm making a direct comparison, just a general one). But we also found out Victor set up easy hunts. Krissy and Co. weren't an automatic supreme hunting force who were going to show Sam and Dean how it was done. The girls should have a lot to learn and not be instant experts. But I don't think Dabb and company are going to be able to resist that cliche. I feel like its going to be at the expense of Sam and (especially) Dean.

Catrox, I agree with what you said about Donna in an earlier post. For all the reasons you stated, its why she's my favorite too. I figure the backdoor pilot will be pretty straight forward. Kim said she's already seen a s13 script and I'm guessing its the scrip for Wayward Sisters. (Which is why I think Dabb is far more interested in the spinoff than the mothership because it seems all the prep work pre season was about the spin off. I figure there will be 2-3 more wards sent Jody's way. We'll meet them in the first few episodes of the season. Sam will find a case, they'll go work it, probably get saved by the teenage protagonist. We will need to see how "kick ass" she it, but it won't before they save the girls parents. They send her to Jody. Then shortly after the the mid-season premier we'll see the pilot.

Berens responded to the tweet with clapping emojis. I'm sure they'll set this up as a sort of "changing of the guard" with Sam and especially Dean being called "old."

Unfortunately, we're still stuck with him this season.

It looks like they really going to try and put this in a spin off

No, mine did too.

I want this so badly

It's probably a WayWard Daughters spinoff. Kim and Brianna are both hinting at it. The only other possibility, I can really think of is that small snippet where Dean imitated Yogi Bear. Maybe it was teasing Sam and Dean becoming cartoons

I always felt this was part of Dean's PTSD coming back from Purgatory. He spent a year where everything was just black and white and living in a place were the law of the land was killed or be killed. It's hard to just turn that off that kind of thinking.

I guess Kim and Brianna said at the convention this week that they'd already seen a script and it was awesome. So, I'm guessing it must heavily feature them and may be the set up for a spin off. They've been hinting at cons about something exciting happening.

Thanks for all your thoughts everyone. Now on to episode 2. For reference: Windego Everybody Loves a Clown The Kids are Alright Are You There God, It's Me Dean Winchester Good God Y'All Two and a Half Men Hello Cruel World What's Up Tiger Mommy Devil May Care Reichenbach Form and Void Mamma Mia Favorite eps Reichenbach- Jensen was just so great in this episode. He really started to get comfortable with Demon Dean. His fight with Cole was one of my favorite sequences. He was like a cat playing with a mouse. He was also so cold when he explained why he let Cole live. The 'did you miss' line was delivered perfectly, with a combination of sarcasm, mocking and seriousness. Everybody Loves a Clown- This is when we used to get Sides, I remember reading them and thinking that I was really going to dislike the episode. It's another example of Jensen making the material work. In the sides, we had Dean flirting with Jo and saying he was doing okay with his dads death. But on screen, you could see Jensen played it as Dean just going through the motions with Jo, and that he clearly was not doing well handling dad's death. I think we also go the first appearance of the OPT in this ep. It also gave me one of my favorite exchanges between the brothers. "At least, I'm not afraid to fly." "Planes Crash" "Apparently, Clowns kill." The MOTW was suffiently creepy as well Are You There God, It's me Dean Winchester- I thought this was a great follow up to Lazarus Rising. I loved Dean's conversation with Cas at the end of this ep. Least Favorite Form and Void- Unfortunately, the start of a pattern in which Dean felt shoe horned into Dabb's episodes. Two and a Half Men- I disliked the whole 'Dean is rusty stuff." Favorite Dean moments Dean pounding the Impala. A great display of non-verbal acting. The anger and rage, coming out against the car and then Dean trying not to lose it, with the little chin wibble. So many emotions packed into that short scene. Dean fishing out Cas's coat and folding it like the flag of a fallen solider All of Reichenbach When Dean didn't protest Sam leaving because he wasn't ready to forgive and forget. That, IMO, was character growth. Dean's confrontation with Abbadon in Devil May Care. I wish they had played up that rivalry more. Dean punching Lady Tony in Momma Mia and telling her that ape did read a book or two. The Interrogation scene in What's Up Tiger Momma. The way it went back and forth between showing Dean having the flashback.

I think the writers with the most seniority after Dabb (and I'm basing this on the rotation schedule) would be Buck/Lemming or Berens.

I figure we'll get Sam and Dean looking for ways to open rifts. Sam will figure it out but it won't be the one they need, and we'll get a few eps of them venturing into other Alt-worlds looking for mom With the exception of the Scooby Doo episode, if we get an alt-world episode I think it will be like My Heart Will go On. It will look like the the regular world just with a few key differences, like Ellen and Jo being alive or Dean driving a mustang. I think we'll only see the AU either at the mid-season premier or the season finale, when its time to rescue mom and let Lucifer escape. They don't have the budget for anything else. As for a Wayward daughters spin off, its not something I'd watch. I like Donna, and Jody, and I don't mind Alex and Claire but I'm not really intested in them on their own. Plus, I figure, using "nostalgia" I can see Dabb trying to recreate a lot of iconic Dean moments. My friend bet me that if they did WayWard daughters that the opening scene would have Claire breaking into Alex's dorm room and telling her that Jody went on a hunting trip and hasn't been home in a few day.

I thought it might be forshadowing for multiple episodes of AUs.