ILoveReading

The Scooby Doo episode is ep16 so I think the AU stuff will probably be around most of the season. I figure it give the writers an out (for lack of a better word) on actually coming up with a storyline. I figure they'll bounce around AU's every few episodes and have a standard MOTW in between. Jack will be good/bad and everything in between depending on what the writers might need him for. Basically, I think each writer will just write whatever they want and the AU's make it so they don't have to worry about canon, or past history.

Sounds like Mary will be back. I was kind of hoping we wouldn't see or hear from her or Lucifer until at least Mid-season.

They could use the afternoon panel. It's an hour, and they could divide it into two half hour panels. That way they don't have to extend the time Jared and Jensen work at a con. Either solo or pair Jensen or Jared with another guest. I don't see it changing either, but I think it would be good to mix up the status quo.

That's true, but it was also when they first started doing cons. Jensen was uncomfortable on stage alone. But he's much more at ease on stage now and more comfortable around fans. I have no idea if Creation ever asked them again after that. Jensen and Jared both agreed to do solo panels at over seas conventions so they don't seem to have a problem. Like I said they don't have to completely eliminate Jensen and Jared panels. Just an occasional con of with a solo or paired with another guest. I know they're doing a Jensen/Misha panel at Hawaii so I doubt either would be opposed to the odd con where the afternoon panel was divided into two half hour ones

As unpopular as this may be its why I wish creation would mix up the panels. Have a solo panel occasionally. I'm not saying instead of Jensen and Jared, but along with. Not at every con, just the occasional one. I find JA and JP panels almost seem scripted with the same questions being asked over and over, Or mix up the guest pairings. Have Jensen and Jason, or Jensen and Rob or Jared and Mark P. It might encourage people to ask different questions.

I never said he was unhappy with working on the show. I said there were times we know he was frustrated with the writing for his character. IMO, those two aren't the same thing.

I disagree that its because Jared and Jensen are not talking about the show because they have families. They had families back in s9 when Jared talked at length about Gadreel being a wet dream storyline. And Jensen had no problem mentioning his disappointment with Demon Dean being dropped. Yes, they get more time off now, but when they are on set, they're there to work and there is no reason for the show not to write for them. If they aren't going to write for them what's the point of continuing the show? Jensen didn't live tweet once, not ever before the twins were born. The twins gave him increased time off for one episode. There was no reason he coudn't have been given material to work with after that. I just don't think Dabb was interested in writing for him. As for Cons, I do remember Jared bringing up the finale and saying he's excited about it without being asked, so if they're really excited for something, then there is no reason they need to wait for a question. Jensen was silent on it. But Jensen did tweet about the action scene at end of ep 21 and managed to say he was excited about ep 22. So "they weren't asked" isn't really an excuse for me because I feel like if they feel strong enough about something, they will find a way to mention it. We know they were not very fond of the end of s11. So they managed to speak about it then. There have been a few comments about they felt that season could have ended at 22. Even when they get questions they sometimes just brush it off. I know someone who asked Jensen at a gold panel, what was going through Dean's mind at the end of ep 12.02 when he was looking at the pictures and he said his answer was basically just "alcohol." I'd be interested to know their feelings on this season. Because we know in the past Jensen wasn't thrilled with the writing for Dean in s6 with the whole domestic story and in s8 with the whole "guilty cheerleader thing," We know he likes action scenes and Dean didn't get many of those this season.

I'm also joining your head cannon @catrox14 There doesn't seem to be a date set for the Brewery opening yet, but Misha was live streaming the other day and Danneel called and invited him to something. Most people are speculating that its the opening.

I agree with what your saying about Cas. I also think this applies to Dean's storylines too. Which are often dropped, backburned or underdeveloped. I think a large problem with the writers is that they seem to struggle with multiple storylines and can only really do one thing at a time but they aren't sure which area to focus on so everything ends up a haphazard mess we got for s12. No story line was really given the focus that it should have. I think they should just do one storyline that contains all characters and concentrate on telling it well. But this season we will have the set up for Wayward Whatever, Jack, Lucifer/Mary, Cas's death, and the AU's. It's most likely too much for these writers to handle so I figure this season will probably be very similar to s12 in that regard. With most of the focus going toward the spin off set up.

That was one of my biggest problems with this seasons (among many) was that Dean's past was all but erased. Nothing about his connections to hellhounds or to Michael, or his time in hell. The only hell mention was used to degrade his experince there even further. It's why I have the unpopular opinion that Dabb has little to know use for Dean. But that is probably more bitch/jerk.

I'd also like an explanation as to why Dean suddenly can't fight, hold onto a weapon, or research. Unpopular opinion but they went way overboard on Sam finding all the answers, Sam's got it, Sam's working on it, and Sam can you fix this gun stuff.

I don't think I've ever seen a hiatus so dead. Now, admittedly its only a small part of internet but the sites I've frequented there seems to be little to no discussion. That's why I don't think it was a good season ender because i feel like a good cliff hanger, obvious or not should generate some discussion. Season 1 remains my favorite because I felt real tension and concern. The fact that I didn't know if the show would be back only heighten it. I saw lots of discussion about whether they could fix the car, or if John would survive, what injuries would Sam and Dean have. Even when Dean went to purgatory and we knew the show was coming back most people figured Dean would back by the opening credits but there was still lots of discussion around what happened to him there, what Sam would do to rescue Dean, the aftermath, etc. Whether the resolution is obvious or not, for me, isn't the the issue. It's the potential direction the storylines could take. The only thing I direction I can see for these story lines is the obvious. There really isn't much to speculate on. The only character who really doesn't have a potential storyline set up is Dean. Maybe what kind of things they might see in an AU, but with budget issues it will probably be like My Heart will go on. It will look exactly like our universe but with a few differences.

I tend to think its pretty obvious where this season is going. Sam will try to find a way to get back to the AU to rescue Mary and try to come up with a way to stop Jack and Lucifer Cas will try to find a way to stop Jack Dean will mope over Cas. We'll get a handful of episodes that take place in alternate AU's as Sam tries to find the right one.

Even though Sam did say "no," the other results of that mini arc were 1) to show that Sam had been wrong about his visions 2) that Sam then screwed up, so that Dean had to come save him, and 3) It was then partially Sam's fault that Lucifer got out, because Sam and Castiel had to come save him... and then the arc was sort of ignored after that, since they didn't really explore how Sam should feel about having to work with Lucifer. Oh, except as a platform to where Sam had to admit how wrong he was to have not looked for Dean in season 8... a storyline that I thought was an insult to Sam's character in the first place. Except no one the show ever called Sam out on being wrong. The show even went out of its way to have Sully tell Sam that only he was brave enough and special enough to go into the cage. Then Sam got an episode where he got to confront his greatest failures and a direct confrontation with Lucifer. They even sent Dean out of the picture so he couldn't object and didn't allow Dean anymore than a straw mans argument as to why it was bad idea. Then they made Cas screw up worse to take the focus of Sam. It came across to me that we were supposed to see Sam as brave for going into the cage, not "wrong." I disagree it was well fleshed out because unless Amara and Dean were within 3 feet of each other, Amara seemed to forget Dean existed. Carver couldn't be bothered to any thought or effort into the storyline. That was obvious when asked if Amara chose not to take Dean's soul or couldn't, and he said. "Let the audience decide." Carver had no idea and didn't care. That was an important plot point. Amara said they'd never let harm come to the other, yet Dean was in jeopardy many times in s11 and Amara couldn't be bothered. If it was true, Dean should never have gotten as far as he did. IMO, in a well written storyline Amara should have shown up in 11.17, not Billie. In episode 18, Amara was pursuing Rowena not Dean. There was one brief look after Dean called for Cas, that came across as "oops these two characters are supposed to have a connection." It seemed clear that whoever was in charge had zero interest in the storyline. Even Jensen commented that as far as episode 18 he was still confused and had no idea how to play things with Amara. Given that Jensen puts a lot of thought and effort into how he plays Dean in certain situations, the fact that even he couldn't figure out what the storyline was supposed to be about speaks volumes.

It wasn't me that came up with it. It was Snow Leopard on the old IMDB forums.

But with regards to Ruby, Dean did treat Sam like an equal. Other than the first ep where he said, no the older brother is back (paraphrasing). But despite that Sam still left Dean alone on his very first night back from hell, so it's not like Sam was listening to Dean anyway. All the way back in to s2 when Ruby first showed up, Sam told Dean he wanted to use her. So literally from the moment they met Sam showed a willingness to work with her. Despite misgivings, Dean followed Sam's lead with regards to her multiple times. Plus, he called Dean weak during Sex and Violence, he followed that up with telling Ruby Dean wasn't strong enough to take on Alaistair in OTHOAP, and again called Dean weak in WTLB. Sam was full of arrogance and hubris. He believed he was stronger, smarter faster and better than his brother. So how did Dean make Sam feel like a kid brother when Sam spent entire season thinking he was superior to Dean? It makes no sense as the reason he gave to Dean as to why he was with Ruby. It's contradictory and the reason it comes across as blame shifting. Sam needed to acknowledge that he was not in control at all with regards to Ruby. As I said it was all an illusion. While, Dean may not let Sam die, I've always felt more often than not Sam treated Dean as an equal partner on a hunt. He didn't shy away from letting Sam do dangerous things. And in the Benders when asked to choose, Dean picked Sam. Because he knew that Sam had the better chance. I've never felt that Dean doesn't think Sam isn't a capable hunter. It's also not on Dean to let Sam do anything. He's a grown man who made his own decision regarding Ruby. He's not 12. So yet another reason why I feel like Sam was blame shifting. What I felt from Sam the most toward Dean in s4 was resentment. It's almost like Sam resented Dean coming back and questioning what Sam was doing. As for Fallen Idol's Sam hadn't demonstrated that he could be trusted yet. He did nothing to really earn it by that point and seemed almost put out that Dean didn't immeditely give it. Then the show turned it on Dean and said that Dean had to treat Sam like an adult. But during s4 he did. As for Sam's powers, what I mean is that they invented a reason to justify Ruby feeding Sam demon blood. Lucifer needing it was never mentioned before or after it. The show made a point to say that Ruby only did it to get Sam ready to house Lucifer. So he could be strong enough. They they made Dean stand by while Sam drained 4 bodies and drank the blood. IMO, it sent a message that Dean was wrong to object to Sam's demon blood drinking because it gave Sam these cool powers.

The problem with the writing is that when there is riff in the brothers relationship, regardless of who did what I find the show puts the burden on Dean. That it's Dean that has to change his behavior. That's Sam's errors were were the result of other people not accepting what he was doing. So Sam can say it's his fault all he wants, but IMO, he still but the blame for his actions on Dean. Even if he didn't say the words, you"re bossy but the implication in that scene is clear. That everything would have been okay if only Dean had treated Sam like a an adult. In a well written show Dean would have been allowed to point out that he did just that. He gave Ruby multiple chances. He thanked her twice. He agreed to work with her (Heaven and Hell), and he did let Sam make his own decisions. In Death takes a Holiday Dean tells Sam to keep his secrets just stop lying. By not allowing Dean to point that out and just have him accept Sam's terms and say Dean and Dean alone needs to change,it leaves the impression that Dean is the one in the wrong. Kripke even said that Dean had to learn to love Sam more and accept his cool powers. They even pulled the "Lucifer drinks demon blood" out of thin air to make Dean wrong about objecting to that. So its why I feel like the show completely whitewashed Sam in s5 for his actions in s4. The problem is that what Sam had with Ruby was an illusion of power. She was the puppet master who pulled Sam's strings 6 ways til Sunday. She was far more controlling then Dean ever was. So to say that Ruby made him feel not like Dean's kid brother shows he didn't learn a thing. Sam wasn't powerful when he was with Ruby. He's was weaker than he's ever been at any time up to that point. I'm not saying Dean handled the situation perfectly, there were thing he could have handled better but IMO, overall Sam made his own decisions when it came to Ruby. Dean's objections weren't based on treating Sam like a child, his objections were based on not trusting Ruby. They were reasonable It's something I find the show relies on to much. They just say Dean needs to learn to let go and not treat Sam like a kid, even during situations were objecting to Sam's behavior is reasonable. Like Sam's hallucinations, you don't trust someone under those circumstances, or when Sam was suffering from trialburculosis and was too weak to stand. Sorry Sam you do need a chaperone in those circumstances. Never was this trope more evident that this season. Every single member of Dean's inner circle lied and betrayed him. Yet, it was Dean who did all the apologizing and compromising and adjusting his behavior.

I think its inevitable that Mark P and Lucifer will be back. They've had multiple opportunities to write Lucifer out permanently and they haven't take them, Plus, he's alive in the AU with Mary. More than likely that will be a storyline. Save Mary. In the process, Sam and Dean will end up in multiple AU's trying to find the one they were in the finale. If I had to guess, Mary will be rescused in the mid-season finale and the back half will deal with her PTSD from being trapped with Lucifer, and the boys trying to find and kill Lucifer. (Because 5 seasons of Lucifer isn't enough).

I'm going to miss Dean and Crowley. It was the best one sided bromance. I knew TPTB were lazy and just photoshopping Mark S out proves it. Plus, its seems kind of disrespectful. But at least they didn't photoshop Mark P in. It looks like Misha will be a comic con, so hopefully this means he has regular contract status.

How I wish that was true It won't be much different than the season 9 panel. It was over 20 minutes into a 45 minute panel before Jensen spoke. I wish they'd do a separate panel for the spinoff.

I would say Dabb, Jensen, Jared, Misha and Mark P (unfortunately).

New pic of Jensen

Head canon accepted

I disagree because Sam saying "No its my fault" doesn't change the reason save gave for going to Ruby, which was to away from Dean because Dean was bossy. Sam put the reason for his actions on Dean. That's not accepting blame, its putting it on Dean's shoulders, hence why I feel like Sam was saying "You made me do it, so that's the only reason its my fault.

What Sam said there, was the equivalent of "It's my fault because you made me do it in the first place." That, IMO, isn't taking responsibility. It's shifting blame. Sam also tells Dean that its Dean that has to change his behavior if things are going to work. No mention from Sam that he needs to change too. Then Dean proceeds to apolgize (one of 3 times, the others being PONR, and SS) for not trusting Sam or having faith in Sam. Why is it when Sam spent and entire season lying and going behind Dean's back its Dean that has to prove his trust in Sam?